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Durability: At least Galaxy Level (Can survive being killed in one hit by Mario)
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Mario Bros: A case for 3-C fodder
- Thread starter Minion_of_Pigsaw
- Start date
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Lou_change
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the Paper Goombas were entirely conscious after the first fight and retreated they literally were not one tapped
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Do you really need me to bring you proof that Mario can kill Goombas in one hit?
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We all know 1 instance from Paper Mario is enough to contradict every other time Goombas get one hit
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well tbf they're weak to jumping but Goombas are still fodder to everyone
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I think they also die in one punch in SM64
ZespeonGalaxy
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They do. Theres no reason for goombas to scale
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Tbh I don’t see why, we have cases of fodder like Egg Pawns being scaled to the main cast.
Lou_change
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What? The game play of the platformers where Broozers take the same three hit of a boss, and Bullies, chain chomps, thwomp are invincible. Anyway that’s not the only example there is the Chargin’ Chuck boss and the paper boo that kidnaps paper Mario in paper jam, the wiggler boss in every Mario & Luigi, the Monty Tank who fights with bullet bills and bob-ombs in New Super Mario Bros., Captain Goomba canonical fought all seven koopalings, acted as Bowser junior’s sparring partner, and survived falling on Bowser hard enough to give Bowser amnesia despite this he is referred to as just a goomba with exceptional minion spirit and leadership skills
Dust_Collector
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Maybe we shouldn't be scaling Egg Pawns to the main cast of Sonic either, generally shouldn't be putting fodder in the same league as the the big boys.
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battleboarding was a mistake
Dust_Collector
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Truly nothing more consistent than galaxy level Goombas that can headbutt you at trillions of times the speed of light.
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,120
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Even if you don’t let them downscale in ap they should at least be able to react the stronger characters given the sports games
I mean it’s not like we haven’t considered chain chomps scaling to Mario before we could easily argue that they are superior to other enemies or show an example of Mario defeating goombas in one hit outside of gameplay or a quote supporting it.
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Thing is, we have a full mode where the purpose is having these fodder minions keep up with the Koopalings after a lot of experience grinding. These aren’t just standard minions by the end of the journey.
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Also, Mario and Luigi effortlessly manhandled a Paper Goomba with literally 0 problems
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,120
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And then they get one shot by a wheel consisting of nine paper goomba
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No offense, but do you really think one time is enough to offset the thousand other statements and stompings they've had?
Hell given we like bringing up Paper Mario so much, didn't Bowser stomp dozens of his own minions at the same time in SPM?
You're gonna need more than just that to legitimately argue this, you're gonna need an unironically good few dozen examples like that to contend with the most consistently stomped character in fiction, not actually being fodder.
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,120
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I have provided other examples no one is acknowledging most of them and where are your examples
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Played SM64 like a billion times and I can confirm this. One punch and they're out
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Bro, this ain't like a 2-3 or example type thing.
This is an "unironically dozens if not hundreds of examples type thing to offset the literal fucktillion anti-feats, statements, and more over the franchise's entire life".
Goomba's and other fodder being one shot, stomped, and being more or less useless has been one of the most consistent staples not in just Mario, but fiction as a whole. They're shown and treated and even said to be fodder. The few times they get a good hit in here or there ain't enough, of course there will be times they do so, there are like 120+ Mario games, it's no different than other long-running dudes doing things they have no business doing (think of it like Batman physically beating the shit out of the Justice League without amps, it's happened before and happened more than once, but that doesn't make Batman suddenly tier 5-4, because he simply isn't).
Idk why you're asking me for examples when I'm not here to argue this really, moreso telling you that you'll need way more than
just a few stray outliers
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So over 200 Mario games, 95% of them have Goombas and shit being stomped or one-shot, and you only have a few examples for your end? Let's go over a couple more specific examples beyond "Look at all these games, hey guess what, wanna see these fodder get one-shot?"
In Mario Bros Wii there's multiple instances of dozens of Goombas in one spot, all get one-shot, this is a small army.
In one of the Mario and Luigi games Mario and Luigi literally take on the top-tiers of their entire respective races and an army of each and win. Not a good look for these folks actually being 3-C at all.
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YEAH it was dream team!
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Any "examples" of fodder scaling to 3-C is outweighed by the overwhelming consistency of guys like Goombas and Koopas having their skulls based in every single waking moment. Myself and other staff members have given this the thumbs down. I honestly think this can be closed
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,120
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I mean having them take more than one hit when you get hurt if they walk into you would be a bit much for the most basic enemy of an early 3D platformer.
Where? The level walkthroughs, helper Luigi, a level, an actual cutscene.
Corporal, Private, Sergeant aren’t ever referred to as partially powerful and that involves Dream Luigi
Anyway I am stuck with limited Data until Tuesday to my knowledge so I won’t be able to respond for a while I would be okay with this being closed so I can take more time on my own to look for examples but isn’t it possible to at least get Captain Goomba to have the possibility higher rating instead say the tier he would possibly scale to.
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If you're going to use gameplay mechanics to back up 3-C Goombas, then you might as well downgrade Mario to Tier 9 given he takes damage from larger falls in SM64
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They're the honor guard, the "Elite Trio", and Kamek makes it a point to tell them to show them the true power of the guard, ignoring how they're quite literally demonstrably way more powerful than the standard.
Yeah, and plain ol Mario, physically beating the shit out of countless goons with every attack.
And I mean that quite literally, that boss fight has attacks where Mario himself without Luigi's aid must do QTEs to avoid them, and as he does he takes out handfuls of goons with every dodge and stomp, as they attack him dozens at a time.
And that isn't even the only time in that game, Kamek for example has attacks where he summons a bunch of Dry Bones.
Fact of the matter is, there are so many anti-feats and even statements saying they do not scale, and even times where hordes of fodder try, and fail, to do anything to the main cast that taking one, two, or even ten examples, won't overturn the vast amount of contradictions. I'm dead serious when I say you'll need dozens to make a point here.
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Lou_change
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I am arguing we shouldn’t use game mechanics. Now may I get an answer to the captain goomba thing so I can stop using data on this debate.
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Idk I'm fine with named characters that actually have feats and are demonstrably not the standard downscaling or going wherever their feats suggest, such as Bobbery, King Goomba, or the Elite Trio
But that ain't the same as scaling literally who Goombas and fodder to the main cast, anyone who would scale of that species, would have their own profile and at that point, that's a subject for another thread.
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,120
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I mean captain goomba currently scales to fodder on account of being a goomba and justifying a 9-B feat that fodder scales to if I remember correctly(Goomba are 8-C) so I think he is technically relevant to the thread’s discussion.
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Captain Goomba should be 3-C for a bundle of reasons, he's just outdated lol
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Yeah at bare minimum the Captains should be 3-C, and maybe the Minions as a collective as well, considering in BiS a hoard of minions could match Bowser’s strength in a statue pushing contest.
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I'm pretty sure this video is living proof Mario doesn't just oneshot Goombas but a whole army of Goombas, Koopa Troopas, and even Thwomps can get curbstomped by Mario.
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Then explain why a horde of minions could compete with Bowser in a strength contest in Inside Story
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Outlier, LS, PIS, there's a few things I can explain it as easily.
Outlier: Bowser is consistently stronger then Mario, who pulled the castle kicks and shit. Multiple times.
LS: they simply matched Bowser in LS, so you divide that LS by how many goombas and shit there were.
PIS: Bowser literally goes through hordes of his own minions effortlessly in the same game multiple times, including Dark Bowser's variants who arguably makes stronger versions.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Outliers
An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are often regarded as unusable in forum debates. However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Meh.
I agree with the thread
I agree with the thread
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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Immense disagree FRA holy shit
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