Mario Bros: A case for 3-C fodder

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

As the title implies, this CRT aims to upscale the regular enemies from Mario Bros' tier, from 8-C to 3-C.

Firstly, they are able to damage the main cast, and occasionally survive their attacks, not just in the platformers but in the RPGs as well.
Secondly, we have the partners from the Paper Mario series, who can fight enemies and bosses that Paper Mario can fight, despite being seemingly regular members of their species beforehand: three different villagers, a clumsy postman, an university student, a retired sailor, et cetera.
Last but not least, we have the subgames from the remakes of the Mario & Luigi games. The minions in them can battle and defeat the Koopalings and Fawful, which wouldn't be possible with such a power gap in the first place, nevermind with the bosses' troops being taken into consideration.

Agree: JJSliderman, Lou_change

Disagree: ZespeonGalaxy, DarkDragonMedeus, Lonkitt, y3p_owo, Armorchompy, Dust_Collector

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Ehhhh Im gonna have to disagree since Goombas koopas attacking and having an occasional survival from a 3-C character can just be an outlier? It happens a lot outside of Mario Media and is an antifeat for common enemies.

 

[JJSliderman]

Bowser’s Minions and Bowser Jr.‘s Journey provide pretty clear-cut evidence for scaling, I think at minimum a 3-C key for stronger members of the species should be allowed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still disagree for the very same reason commonly brought up.

 

[JJSliderman]

I think calling BJJ and BM outliers is antithetical to them still having experiencing gaining and level ups that clearly show these minions getting stronger to take on the Koopalings.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Ehhhh Im gonna have to disagree since Goombas koopas attacking and having an occasional survival from a 3-C character can just be an outlier? It happens a lot outside of Mario Media and is an antifeat for common enemies.

In most of the games I'm aware of in which, say, Goombas appear and attack other characters, they are consistently able to at least power down Mario and co. (and make them lose a life, if they are already in their weakest form) or lower their health, either from a meter, in some 3D plataformers, or numerically, in the RPGs.

 

[Lonkitt]

I disagree. We've been over this a good number of times. The situation hasn't changed

 

[JJSliderman]

Explain the problem with the RPG side modes then

 

[Lonkitt]

Explain the problem with the RPG side modes then

Bowser's Minions has no 3-C scaling

Bowser Jr.'s Journey focuses on Bowser Jr. primarily fighting the 3-C threats. Its never implied that for a fight such as the one he has against Roy, that the minions had any significant part in pressuring 3-C characters

My thoughts are not gonna budge on this. I disagree with the upgrade

 

[Lonkitt]

Another thing too. Paper Mario's being separated from the main canon. Paper Mario can't be used for evidence

 

[JJSliderman]

Bowser's Minions has no 3-C scaling

Did I miss the part where the minions fight Koopalings and Fawful?

 

[Lonkitt]

Did I miss the part where the minions fight Koopalings and Fawful?

A) Fawful pretended to be defeated for his own gain. Fawful's later legitimately fought with a cast of 3-Cs
B) The Goomba starring in Bowser's Minions is implied to be different from the average Goomba. And even then, his army addresses the Koopalings to be quite powerful. Wendy even claims that she was going easy on the minions beforehand

Aside from this Goomba pretty much being an outlier among his crew, him and his allies are still seen as not quite one-to-one in power against the 3-Cs

Using Bowser's Minions to justify even the weakest of the army scaling to Mario tiers is a giant stretch

 

[JJSliderman]

They still fight against the Koopalings and hold their own.

 

[Lonkitt]

They still fight against the Koopalings and hold their own.

But it’s pretty heavily implied they aren’t just your regular everyday minions, so that pretty much shatters the idea that all Goomba scale

 

[JJSliderman]

Just introduce a separate key for these stronger versions of the Minions then

 

[Cropfist]

Another thing too. Paper Mario's being separated from the main canon. Paper Mario can't be used for evidence

Is this true? It took long enough

 

[Armorchompy]

To scale literal tens of thousands of beings minimum to galaxy-busting levels definitely seems a bit silly to me. Granted I think there's probably a legit argument that ones such as Thwomps and the like actually might scale to Mario but definitely not Goombas/Koopas/etc. I think it's fair to say some can be at their level but I wouldn't treat that as their default power level.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes, just make a separate key for the Minions post-training in these side modes.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Another thing too. Paper Mario's being separated from the main canon. Paper Mario can't be used for evidence

True, but in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, the paper enemies are fought alongside their three-dimensional counterparts, and they are roughly equal in power, so I think they can be scaled to each other.

 

[Lonkitt]

True, but in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, the paper enemies are fought alongside their three-dimensional counterparts, and they are roughly equal in power, so I think they can be scaled to each other.

Enemies that are treated like fodder? Not a great argument

 

[Lou_change]

Crinkle Goomba
The time three Shroob's are a boss in bowser's inside story
Mario party in general
Kamek is implied unable to beat Lava Bubble Limbo
Bowser claims Mario can't get past Impassable Castle unless he uses a buzzy shell which supports more than chain chomps and thwomps because the implication of buzzy beetle shells scaling.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Enemies that are treated like fodder? Not a great argument

Not on its own, but it would mean that arguments that concern paper enemies could also scale to 3D enemies. Though I am now realizing scaling the minions to 3-C is silly.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Stuff like Goomboss being 3-C is fine enough ig. (Bump)

 

[y3p_owo]

Heavily disagree FRA

 

[Lonkitt]

Stuff like Goomboss being 3-C is fine enough ig. (Bump)

This thread isn’t about Goomboss. It’s about the regular minions

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

This thread isn’t about Goomboss. It’s about the regular minions

Where is the line drawn between regular minions and bosses, anyway?

 

[Lonkitt]

Where is the line drawn between regular minions and bosses, anyway?

In most Mario games, bosses are portrayed as greater threats and may even have in-game or secondary sources specifically addressing them as such

Minions in Mario games are consistently portrayed as fodder that the protags easily stomp on their day-to-day strolls

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

In most Mario games, bosses are portrayed as greater threats and may even have in-game or secondary sources specifically addressing them as such

Minions in Mario games are consistently portrayed as fodder that the protags easily stomp on their day-to-day strolls

What about the Koopa Bros., who have their own dungeon and theme song, but are individually only marginally stronger than regular Paper Koopa Troopas?

 

[Lonkitt]

What about the Koopa Bros., who have their own dungeon and theme song, but are individually only marginally stronger than regular Paper Koopa Troopas?

This is about mainline Mario. Not Paper

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

This is about mainline Mario. Not Paper

I don't see why characters from both continuities can't be scaled equally, what with Paper Jam.

 

[Lonkitt]

I don't see why characters from both continuities can't be scaled equally, what with Paper Jam.

Because Paper Jam doesn’t feature every single minion in the Mario continuity nor does it have any evidence of fodder Goombas scaling to 3-C

 

[Lou_change]

Because Paper Jam doesn’t feature every single minion in the Mario continuity nor does it have any evidence of fodder Goombas scaling to 3-C

Crinkle Goomba

 

[Lonkitt]

You’re gonna have to elaborate on the Crinkle Goomba

 

[Lou_change]

It and 8 other paper goomba form a wheel and one shot Mario and Luigi

 

[Lonkitt]

It and 8 other paper goomba form a wheel and one shot Mario and Luigi

The Crinkle Goomba obviously isn’t your standard run-of-the-mill Goomba though. Not a great supporting point

 

[Lou_change]

The Crinkle Goomba obviously isn’t your standard run-of-the-mill Goomba though. Not a great supporting point

Really

As the video shows Mario and Luigi could literally fold him and that he is literally the tutorial enemy.

 

[Lonkitt]

Really

As the video shows Mario and Luigi could literally fold him and that he is literally the tutorial enemy.

Okay….so what’s your argument? You’re using him to say Goombas should scale, yet argue Mario and Luigi can easily stomp him

You’re contradicting yourself

 

[Lou_change]

Okay….so what’s your argument? You’re using him to say Goombas should scale, yet argue Mario and Luigi can easily stomp him

You’re contradicting yoursel

Goombas heavily downscale given both Crinkle Goomba and the other paper Goomba survive the first fight and the stack of nine one shot Mario and Luigi. My other examples have been ignored

The time three Shroob's are a boss in bowser's inside story
Mario party in general
Kamek is implied unable to beat Lava Bubble Limbo
Bowser claims Mario can't get past Impassable Castle unless he uses a buzzy shell which supports more than chain chomps and thwomps because the implication of buzzy beetle shells scaling.

 

[Armorchompy]

please don't downscale people into being galaxy busters from high-end feats of people who can one-tap them ty

 

[Dust_Collector]

We really out here trying to scale goombas to people that repeatably stomp them into the ground