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Makima. (Chainsaw Man)

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As i suggested in my last thread Makima's ressusction should have a number to the amount of times she can logically come back to avoid it being seen as infinite.

chainsaw man isn't set in modern day Japan but rather an alternative timeline of Japan in 1997, therefore using the number of the modern day Japanese population is flawed.


According to a quick search the number of Japanese citizens at the end of 1977 was 126,011,000. So that would be the number she could revive although this is a high ball considering Chainsaw Man's population in Japan would be significantly lower after taking deaths attributed to Devils into account.
 
LordGinSama said:
As i suggested in my last thread Makima's ressusction should have a number to the amount of times she can logically come back to avoid it being seen as infinite.

chainsaw man isn't set in modern day Japan but rather an alternative timeline of Japan in 1997, therefore using the number of the modern day Japanese population is flawed.


According to a quick search the number of Japanese citizens at the end of 1977 was 126,011,000. So that would be the number she could revive although this is a high ball considering Chainsaw Man's population in Japan would be significantly lower after taking deaths attributed to Devils into account.
Click to expand...
The world wars didn't happen so this is more of a low-end than a high ball.
 
Recon1511 said:
They happened, people just forgot
Click to expand...
The concept that is feared & a Devil embodies vanishes alongside the Devil upon being eaten by Pochita. Memories are removed as well, but the embodied concepts disappear too.

WWI happened, but not any wars after that, because Chainsaw Man ate their Devils and erased them from reality.
 
Zabazab said:
The concept that is feared & a Devil embodies vanishes alongside the Devil upon being eaten by Pochita. Memories are removed as well, but the embodied concepts disappear too.

WWI happened, but not any wars after that, because Chainsaw Man ate their Devils and erased them from reality.
Click to expand...
I am aware but what Lynieryz was saying was that WW2 didn't happen even though we know it did in the CSM verse and as far as I know Japan didn't get majorly involved in any conflict after WW2 so its population would remain the same as irl up to 1997
 
Recon1511 said:
I am aware but what Lynieryz was saying was that WW2 didn't happen even though we know it did in the CSM verse and as far as I know Japan didn't get majorly involved in any conflict after WW2 so its population would remain the same as irl up to 1997
Click to expand...
WWII happened and was then erased by Pochita, so it never happened. Still safer to use the irl JP population in 1997 though (not that the exact number matters very much).
 
Zabazab said:
WWII happened and was then erased by Pochita, so it never happened. Still safer to use the irl JP population in 1997 though (not that the exact number matters very much).
Click to expand...
It did happen though, and it's not like the millions of people that died were revived just because Pochita ate it lol
 
Zabazab said:
The concept that is feared & a Devil embodies vanishes alongside the Devil upon being eaten by Pochita. Memories are removed as well, but the embodied concepts disappear too.

WWI happened, but not any wars after that, because Chainsaw Man ate their Devils and erased them from reality.
Click to expand...
That does bring up an interesting part. If World War II was erased, then exactly what aspects of the war were erased along with it? Were the people themselves who died during the war erased from existence? Or were they simply somehow returned to their original lives after reality was re-written with no memory of the war? Were people who were killed during the war brought back to life? Because it does look like Makima can bring people back from the dead. It's really complicated when you actually dissect Pochita's ability.
 
Zabazab said:
That is in fact the safest assumption. World War II was "erased from the past, the present, and even individual memories".

Anyone killed by something that never existed would logically never have died.
Click to expand...
If that's true, then that means Pochita has the ability to revive literally millions of people. That would be a pretty sweet hax.
 
Zabazab said:
That is in fact the safest assumption. World War II was "erased from the past, the present, and even individual memories".

Anyone killed by something that never existed would logically never have died.
Click to expand...
Was this actually ever confirmed? Tbh I feel like the more likely case is that those who were killed in WW2 were simply erased as an indirect consequences. It happened but it seems more so that the population simply forgot, as Makima herself still remembers.


There's also the whole thing with the Name Eating being pretty inconsistent given that we still see The Eternity Devil around after Denji ate him.
 
LordGinSama said:
Was this actually ever confirmed? Tbh I feel like the more likely case is that those who were killed in WW2 were simply erased as an indirect consequences. It happened but it seems more so that the population simply forgot, as Makima herself still remembers.
Click to expand...
Pochita ate the WWII Devil, so WWII was erased from the past, present, & memories. The people who died in WWII aren't WWII, so they shouldn't cease to exist. WWII never existed, thus it never happened, thus no one died in a War that never happened.

This is a more straightforward take & avoids issues such as 80 million people vanishing without explanation as a consequence.

Makima herself can't even fully recall erased Names, her power lets her remember the sight of Pochita fighting their Devils, but she's starting to forget too.

LordGinSama said:
There's also the whole thing with the Name Eating being pretty inconsistent given that we still see The Eternity Devil around after Denji ate him.
Click to expand...
First, Denji didn't eat the Eternity Devil.

Second, Denji cannot erase Devils' Names by eating them, only Pochita is able to do that.
 
Totally didn't forget about this I swear

Reread over CSM to gather stuff for the future & this thread, and added in the suggestions provided and other stuff into the sandbox:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:CowHeadGod/Makima

Pretty sure, everything else I wanted to address before has already been addressed

LordGinSama said:
As i suggested in my last thread Makima's ressusction should have a number to the amount of times she can logically come back to avoid it being seen as infinite.
Click to expand...
I already listed it as Limited Resurrection in my sandbox due to this

LordGinSama said:
According to a quick search the number of Japanese citizens at the end of 1977 was 126,011,000. So that would be the number she could revive although this is a high ball considering Chainsaw Man's population in Japan would be significantly lower after taking deaths attributed to Devils into account.
Click to expand...
Definitely wouldn't call that a high ball at all nor do I like using that as an exact value. Her contract explicitly states that "any attack against her will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese citizens", not necessarily instant death to whoever gets transferred her damage. Theoretically, she can just indefinitely stack on these illnesses and accidents on the same citizen multiple times

staff please recheck this so this single page crt doesn't turn unnesscarily 7+ pages long like the jjk rework
 
CowHeadGod said:
Totally didn't forget about this I swear

Reread over CSM to gather stuff for the future & this thread, and added in the suggestions provided and other stuff into the sandbox:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:CowHeadGod/Makima

Pretty sure, everything else I wanted to address before has already been addressed


I already listed it as Limited Resurrection in my sandbox due to this


Definitely wouldn't call that a high ball at all nor do I like using that as an exact value. Her contract explicitly states that "any attack against her will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese citizens", not necessarily instant death to whoever gets transferred her damage. Theoretically, she can just indefinitely stack on these illnesses and accidents on the same citizen multiple times

staff please recheck this so this single page crt doesn't turn unnesscarily 7+ pages long like the jjk rework
Click to expand...
Cook🔥 but you have 8-A on the rework albeit it should be 8-A+ since she upscales from the Gun Devils feat because she drew blood from pochita
 
CowHeadGod said:
Totally didn't forget about this I swear

Reread over CSM to gather stuff for the future & this thread, and added in the suggestions provided and other stuff into the sandbox:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:CowHeadGod/Makima

Pretty sure, everything else I wanted to address before has already been addressed


I already listed it as Limited Resurrection in my sandbox due to this


Definitely wouldn't call that a high ball at all nor do I like using that as an exact value. Her contract explicitly states that "any attack against her will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese citizens", not necessarily instant death to whoever gets transferred her damage. Theoretically, she can just indefinitely stack on these illnesses and accidents on the same citizen multiple times

staff please recheck this so this single page crt doesn't turn unnesscarily 7+ pages long like the jjk rework
Click to expand...

I'd suggest altering her Telekinesis & Biological Manipulation sections:
Zabazab said:
I cannot stress enough the sheer difference between the ability used on Darkness Devil and the ability used throughout the Control Devil Arc.

The ability used on Darkness:
  • Is used silently
  • Causes massive internal hemorrhaging, no external damage
  • Applies no force, Darkness simply keels over
  • Doesn't travel (bypassed the force-field Darkness has)
  • Negates durability (harmed Darkness Devil despite it being invulnerable in the dark & Makima barely being able to damage Pochita who is < Darkness)
Meanwhile, the finger-gun used throughout the Control Devil Arc:
  • Requires the word "Bang" to be said
  • Causes a powerful physical impact, like a huge invisible bullet
  • Applies an extreme amount of force, enough to blast Pochita into space
  • Travels (seen when Makima launches Pochita into space)
  • Doesn't negate durability (slightly damaged Pochita, but he tanks multiple blasts without issue)
The only thing they have in common is a similar, not identical, hand gesture when used.
Click to expand...
 
CowHeadGod said:
Totally didn't forget about this I swear

Reread over CSM to gather stuff for the future & this thread, and added in the suggestions provided and other stuff into the sandbox:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:CowHeadGod/Makima

I already listed it as Limited Resurrection in my sandbox due to this.
Click to expand...
Fair.
CowHeadGod said:
Definitely wouldn't call that a high ball at all nor do I like using that as an exact value. Her contract explicitly states that "any attack against her will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese citizens", not necessarily instant death to whoever gets transferred her damage.
Click to expand...
Which still leads to death ultimately. Makima's Contract relfects attacks and turns them into illnesses or accidents that cause death.
CowHeadGod said:
Theoretically, she can just indefinitely stack on these illnesses and accidents on the same citizen multiple times.
Click to expand...
She for sure as well can't do that indefinitely. Her contract is specifically tied to the lives of the japanese citizens, once they're all dead there's no more Contract.
 
LordGinSama said:
Which still leads to death ultimately. Makima's Contract relfects attacks and turns them into illnesses or accidents that cause death.

She for sure as well can't do that indefinitely. Her contract is specifically tied to the lives of the japanese citizens, once they're all dead there's no more Contract.
Click to expand...
Unproven that all instances lead to death immediately. It's already listed as limited anyways and limited by the no. of Japanese citizens.
 
LordGinSama said:
Resurrection (Per her contract with Prime Minister of Japan, when she is killed, some random Japanese citizen dies in her place.)
Click to expand...
The profile is wrong, and this thread is meant to change it. Makima says that attacks on her are turned into incidents and illnesses to a random Japanese citizen. Not that any injury dealt onto her causes the death of a Japanese citizen.

Why you bring up what is on the profile in a thread meant to revise that same profile bewilders me.
 
azontr said:
The profile is wrong, and this thread is meant to change it. Makima says that attacks on her are turned into incidents and illnesses to a random Japanese citizen. Not that any injury dealt onto her causes the death of a Japangunslinger.
Click to expand...
"appropriate illnesses and accidents." Ignoring that most illnesses can be fatal if left unchecked. Things like the flu have a pretty high fatality rate as it is, and I find it extremely doubtful that the contract would reflect injuries done to her would transform into a mild illness like a stomach ache or some shit.


Doesn't really help that as far as I'm aware every time she's killed, we see a citizen of Japan being killed as well.
azontr said:
Why you bring up what is on the profile in a thread meant to revise that same profile bewilders me.
Click to expand...
This one honestly escaped me tbh, my bad but still nonetheless I disagree with the notion of her resurrection being indefinite by any means. There is indeed a limit to how many times she can "escape" death and that is the amount of Japanese citizens there are within that time, ergo it should have a figure in the profile.
 
Might as well make a note on her profile clarifying that the contract only applies to Japanese citizens (I assume we are talking strictly those with citizenship) and that some kind of verse equalization should be optional in versus matches if her opponent is Japanese like in Makima vs Gojo.
 
LordGinSama said:
"appropriate illnesses and accidents." Ignoring that most illnesses can be fatal if left unchecked. Things like the flu have a pretty high fatality rate as it is, and I find it extremely doubtful that the contract would reflect injuries done to her would transform into a mild illness like a stomach ache or some shit.
Click to expand...
Yes, illnesses can be fatal if left unchecked, however, they generally don't kill the victim instantly. Even some of the most quick-affecting illnesses still take hours to kills a healthy person. Most fights don't last that long typically (of course there's plenty of expectations but y'know what I mean) so assuming that the victim gets transferred a illness, they should be still capable of getting another illness or accident transferred to them.

Not saying that a citizen can't get insta-killed during the first transfer of course.
LordGinSama said:
There is indeed a limit to how many times she can "escape" death and that is the amount of Japanese citizens there are within that time, ergo it should have a figure in the profile.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there is a limit. It's already written in the sandbox that she's limited by the amount of 1997 Japanese citizens.
Recon1511 said:
Might as well make a note on her profile clarifying that the contract only applies to Japanese citizens (I assume we are talking strictly those with citizenship) and that some kind of verse equalization should be optional in versus matches if her opponent is Japanese like in Makima vs Gojo.
Click to expand...
Added
 
CowHeadGod said:
Yeah, there is a limit. It's already written in the sandbox that she's limited by the amount of 1997 Japanese citizens.
Click to expand...
Fair enough this looks good then but I'd specific the figure of the population under her P&A or perhaps under her notes since that's not common knowledge most users would have for the most part.
 
Agree with this CRT and the profile looks great but I have a question about Makima's resurrection. It was referenced at the beginning of this CRT but I'm not aware if it was ever discussed what level of damage Makima's contract allows her to come back from. I'm sure this would be important for future VS matches as it decides if she can even be killed through normal/bodily destruction means. As mentioned before the OP provided a panel that provides evidence for Mid-high levels of ressurective power based on how we currently classify regeneration levels, with Kishibe implying Makima's contract would allow her to ressurect from even Denji's feces given time. Food during digestion gets completely broken down to its most basic components which is analogous to the complete biological destruction requirements for Mid-high. Even if you argue that's to vague we get more explicit confirmation of at least High-mid via Denji's refutation that blowing her up would still fail to kill her.
 
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