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Makima. (Chainsaw Man)

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Zabazab said:
I'm not headcanoning anything, I'm saying one feat was casual while one was done with effort. One was against a random human and another was against a transcendent eldritch monster
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Now where's is your proof about it being the same power and that pointing is relevant to increase its potency? I mean, isnt that Hax? Why would AP be relevant? Or you mean that Darkness Devil has some kind of basic biohax resistance and thus Makima needed to use a layered version of the power that is actived by pointing? So now Makima has layered Hax or her "Hax" doesnt bypass durability completely? If you choose the layer option, só now we are gonna apply a new resistance to Darkness?
Zabazab said:
Considering how thoroughly planned out this manga is: it's really not.
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Yeah, it is. A lot of things change even to planned mangas. Jujutsu Kaisen had a already planned conclusion and the ideia was to make Itadori die in chapter 7, and yet here we are, with Gege changing such in one week. One Piece was to last only five years, about 250 chapters, and here we are. Fujimoto deciding to make Makima say "Bang" isnt something big, at all.
Zabazab said:
It was entirely offscreen. I'm saying that the fact she blasted holes in them means that the idea that Makima's TK worked totally differently just 14 chapters apart is utter nonsense, since it worked how it is seen in the Control Devil arc way back in the Katana Man arc.
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The only thing that is completely different from these is Makima saying Bang
Zabazab said:
Because i looked at the image and it's body was undamaged on the outside, it only bled from it's orifices, and received no impact or knockback- it just slumps over
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What Gunshy said
 
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GunshyFever said:
This can be accurate considering when a strong force is applied, doesn't always have to equate to external damage, The force can be strong enough to cause internal damage on a tremendous level.
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But Makima's TK never ever once does internal damage. It's always behaved exactly as an impact would, as if it's an invisible bullet. Even when used on characters that are stronger than Makima yet weaker than the Darkness Devil such as Pochita.

I just find the attempt to file the ability used on Darkness under one of the few consistent abilities in CSM despite them not being similar in visuals nor effect, when she has an ability that far more closely resembles it to be very strange.
 
I also say Makima should possibly be given Cosmic Awareness given she could sense when things were going to shit for Denji's group in Hell when Darkness was tearing them all to shreds

Perhaps also some kind of interdimensional telepathy given she could communicate with prinz who was in hell while she herself was still on earth?
 
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Fujimoto deciding to make Makima say "Bang" isnt something big, at all.
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This could be a point if there was even a single other time in the entire manga when Makima used a TK attack without saying Bang. But there isn't, not even once. It's clearly implied to be a requirement to use the ability.

LIFE_OF_KING said:
The only thing that is completely different from these is Makima saying Bang
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I cannot stress enough the sheer difference between the ability used on Darkness Devil and the ability used throughout the Control Devil Arc.

The ability used on Darkness:
  • Is used silently
  • Causes massive internal hemorrhaging, no external damage
  • Applies no force, Darkness simply keels over
  • Doesn't travel (bypassed the force-field Darkness has)
  • Negates durability (harmed Darkness Devil despite it being invulnerable in the dark & Makima barely being able to damage Pochita who is < Darkness)
Meanwhile, the finger-gun used throughout the Control Devil Arc:
  • Requires the word "Bang" to be said
  • Causes a powerful physical impact, like a huge invisible bullet
  • Applies an extreme amount of force, enough to blast Pochita into space
  • Travels (seen when Makima launches Pochita into space)
  • Doesn't negate durability (slightly damaged Pochita, but he tanks multiple blasts without issue)
The only thing they have in common is a similar, not identical, hand gesture when used.
 
I generally agree with Zabazab on the topic of Makima scaling to the Darkness Devil. When I implemented that scaling I wasn't exactly thinking much about the implications of it, but it does seem more likely that her being able to harm the Darkness Devil is an extension of an ability separate from her offensive Telekinesis.

One thing I'd like to point out from the beginning of the discussion is that while Pochita is not actually Denji and didn't experience all of his combat training with Kishibe, Pochita does actively see and "experience" all of what Denji does from inside of Denji. So he should, at least somewhat, scale to Denji's own combat prowess, as he was likely internalizing all of the lessons Denji learned when training. At least, that's my belief.

I don't agree with the ritual thing being Death Manipulation to any degree, even a limited degree. I would list it as a form of conditional Telekinesis along with her actual Telekinesis, which allows her to effect targets not directly within her perception, unlike Bang, which requires a targeting mechanism and an aiming motion.

Otherwise, I do agree with everything else. This profile is very, very well-made. Very nice work.
 
1ica9wzq3uia1.jpg

Baaased profile OP, agree FRA🚂💨!
 
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CowHeadGod said:
Makima's Regen
  • Makima's damage contract thing is hella confusing ngl. Since it's implied that she can possibly regen from being completely eaten (since they expected her to but that didn't happen due to Denji's whole love thing) should low-high (or mid-high?) regeneration be included on her profile since it's higher than the regen on the devil physiology page or should it just be resurrection since both Makima and the narration says that she died
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The way i understand it, Makima resurrects by redirecting the damage to a random citizen. However, she also has her own innate Devil regen. Devils can be really hard to kill, In Part 2 Denji was beheaded in hell and he just puts his head back on. Im not sure at which point the contract kicks in.

I think its both regeneration and resurrection. Its not like her contract only heals her if something would have killed her, just about any damage is redirected to some unfortunate citizen. A good example of her regen was how Makima was impaled and had her arm smashed by the Darkness Devil. A few minutes later, the next time we see her, all that damage was completely gone.

It does seem to take some time. When Makima was shot by Katana mans thugs and her arm twisted she didn't heal instantly.
 
After the recent chapter, I believe a new weakness should be added to her profile. "Those with strong loyalty towards others are capable of resisting Makima's powers." This evidence was first seen when Power defied Makima's orders to turn Denji over to her and fled with him, since Denji was Power's first friend and she wanted to save him. Now, in the newest chapter, Barem completely resists Nayuta's powers and begins to strangle her. Barem suggests the possibility that Nayuta can't control him because Makima had already controlled him before, but also believes it could be because he's still completely devoted to Makima. Based on what's been presented, Barem's latter argument seems to be the more likely reason, and because there's no proof for the former argument.

I think this could imply that those with supernatural willpower can resist her abilities, making Makima seem less omnipotent than this fandom makes her out to be.
 
The Nayuta case is not a weakness of the ability. It's just Nayuta's abilities being weaker than Makima's, evidently. Barem did not give a clear, definitive answer as to why he was unable to be controlled by Nayuta, so we can't really assume this falls under a case of "He just has strong devotion to Makima".
 
azontr said:
The Nayuta case is not a weakness of the ability. It's just Nayuta's abilities being weaker than Makima's, evidently. Barem did not give a clear, definitive answer as to why he was unable to be controlled by Nayuta, so we can't really assume this falls under a case of "He just has strong devotion to Makima".
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There's no conclusive evidence that Nayuta's abilities are weaker than Makima's. There might be a difference in technique and Nayuta's creativeness compared to Makima's, but it's never been stated that Nayuta's raw power is weaker than Makima's ever was. The Control Devil's abilities are based on their perception of superiority over everyone else, and Nayuta clearly does not possess any self-doubts or insecurities about herself. She refers to Denji as her property, showing her entitled views, and if she views Denji as her property, then I don't see why she would regard anyone else as above her. The only reason we've never seen Nayuta use the same abilities as Makima is because she's never had the need to yet. She just wants to live a normal life with Denji, which doesn't require her to use her abilities to the extent Makima did.

While yes, Barem didn't give a definitive answer as to why Nayuta couldn't control him, I already provided evidence of people breaking free from Makima's control when Power saved Denji. So it gives further credence to the theory that strong devotion towards another can resist the Control Devill's powers.
 
I thought Barem resisted her attack because Nayuta wasn't feeling superior to him at that moment because he burned down her house or something
 
Recon1511 said:
I thought Barem resisted her attack because Nayuta wasn't feeling superior to him at that moment because he burned down her house or something
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There's no proof of this. We don't get any of Nayuta's internal monologue or any physical behavior from her indicating fear like the shake marks present around a character's body when they tremble. No teary eyes of fear, no staggering, nothing that implies Nayuta is afraid of him or felt inferior to him. It's a theory, but based on how she behaves, calling him a piece of crap and ordering him to bite his tongue and die, I'd say she felt pretty confident in ordering his death.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
After the recent chapter, I believe a new weakness should be added to her profile. "Those with strong loyalty towards others are capable of resisting Makima's powers." This evidence was first seen when Power defied Makima's orders to turn Denji over to her and fled with him, since Denji was Power's first friend and she wanted to save him. Now, in the newest chapter, Barem completely resists Nayuta's powers and begins to strangle her. Barem suggests the possibility that Nayuta can't control him because Makima had already controlled him before, but also believes it could be because he's still completely devoted to Makima. Based on what's been presented, Barem's latter argument seems to be the more likely reason, and because there's no proof for the former argument.

I think this could imply that those with supernatural willpower can resist her abilities, making Makima seem less omnipotent than this fandom makes her out to be.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I think it's the weakness we already know about; extreme emotion. Barem is finally revealing his vitriolic hatred towards Denji for killing Makima, as well as his one-sided love for her, allowing him to ignore Nayuta's powers. Just like how Angel regained his memories when he saw his boyfriend experience what Angel experienced himself, or when Power protected Denji out of love for her first friend.

Recon's suggestion is also a possibility, she was sweating bullets and fearful of Barem.
 
Zabazab said:
I disagree. I think it's the weakness we already know about; extreme emotion. Barem is finally revealing his vitriolic hatred towards Denji for killing Makima, as well as his one-sided love for her, allowing him to ignore Nayuta's powers. Just like how Angel regained his memories when he saw his boyfriend experience what Angel experienced himself, or when Power protected Denji out of love for her first friend.
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That's a valid opinion as well. Strong emotion can be capable of resisting Makima's powers, but it's not listed anywhere on her profile, so it should be added as a weakness. This shows that willpower and emotion do play a factor, and those with supernatural willpower or mental resistance should be capable of resisting the abilities of the control devil.
Zabazab said:
Recon's suggestion is also a possibility, she was sweating bullets and fearful of Barem.
Click to expand...
Again, no direct proof she was ever afraid of Barem. I saw a single sweat bullet in one panel, but not enough to say she was scared. The fact that Barem doesn't suggest this as one of the reasons why she can't control him gives more support to the notion she was just hateful and angry at him, not scared.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
There's no conclusive evidence that Nayuta's abilities are weaker than Makima's. There might be a difference in technique and Nayuta's creativeness compared to Makima's, but it's never been stated that Nayuta's raw power is weaker than Makima's ever was. The Control Devil's abilities are based on their perception of superiority over everyone else, and Nayuta clearly does not possess any self-doubts or insecurities about herself. She refers to Denji as her property, showing her entitled views, and if she views Denji as her property, then I don't see why she would regard anyone else as above her. The only reason we've never seen Nayuta use the same abilities as Makima is because she's never had the need to yet. She just wants to live a normal life with Denji, which doesn't require her to use her abilities to the extent Makima did.
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"Never had the need" is not a defeater to the argument. If, by your own admission, Nayuta wanted to live a "normal life" with Denji, she would have utilized a far more potent extension of her ability rather than one that can (and has) been dodged. The more appropriate conclusion is that Nayuta just can't utilize the abilities that Makima can, because she hasn't displayed the ability to do so to the same extent, and because in situations where she could've reached her own ends far easier by utilizing Makima's more potent ability application, she "chose" not to.

Not to mention, Nayuta has no concern for living a "normal life" with Denji. Merely chapters before the recent one she showed a complete disregard for human life, viewing Devils as "superior", and suggested that she and Denji join the Devil's side instead of working to save humans.

Nayuta does not care about living a normal life. She cares about Denji. To be with Denji she does not have to maintain any kind of "normal". Using this to try and say she wouldn't utilize the full extent of her power (hypothetically) frankly makes 0 sense.
 
YeahhBoyee said:
It does seem to take some time. When Makima was shot by Katana mans thugs and her arm twisted she didn't heal instantly.
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I always thought this was on purpose considering how fast her contract comes into effect when she is in an active confrontation, but I think that the contract should not be denoted under regeneration at all and actively denote it as distinct OR we give her regen from anything lower than metaphysical attacks because sadly scaling is polluted by the notion that anyone and everyone's regeneration works by healing from body mass.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
I always thought this was on purpose considering how fast her contract comes into effect when she is in an active confrontation, but I think that the contract should not be denoted under regeneration at all and actively denote it as distinct OR we give her regen from anything lower than metaphysical attacks because sadly scaling is polluted by the notion that anyone and everyone's regeneration works by healing from body mass.
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In the confrontation makima used chains on controlled humans so the damage would be passed on more directly and effectively
 
GunshyFever said:
In the confrontation makima used chains on controlled humans so the damage would be passed on more directly and effectively
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Is this ever stated or just assumed? Although I could see it I am unsure if this is an assumption reached by you. Either way, if true this should be denoted in her profile as something she has the capability of doing.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Is this ever stated or just assumed? Although I could see it I am unsure if this is an assumption reached by you. However, either way if true this should be denoted in her profile as something she has the capability of doing.
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It was placed on the rework profile I'll link it below

 
GunshyFever said:
It was placed on the rework profile I'll link it below

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The way it reads right now does not seem like it is part of her contract lel. And it is not worded to seem that it is simply her contract acting faster as normally it takes time.
 
GunshyFever said:
It was placed on the rework profile I'll link it below

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Also the physical attack part needs to be attack in general it's based on intent
PhantomØ4 said:
The way it reads right now does not seem like it is part of her contract lel. And it is not worded to seem that it is simply her contract acting faster as normally it takes time.
Click to expand...
How about this

As per her contract with the Prime Minister of Japan, any attack done with intent to harm on her will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese citizens. Furthermore, she is also capable of independently transferring any damage taken to one of her chained victims for regeneration/resurrection.
 
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If it is an extension of her contract it should be more like.

As per her contract with the Prime Minister of Japan, any attack done with the intent to harm on her will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese citizens after a short period of time. Though she is also capable of directly transferring any damage taken to one of her chained victims for almost immediate effects of her contract.

If it is not from her contract then yours is fine.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
If it is not from her contract then yours is fine.
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Considering the fact that the contract is explicitly stated to turn the attacks into either an accident or an illness upon an random Japanese citizen, it probably is not an application of the contract.

Also the chains by themselves are one of her own ability.
 
Rez said:
Considering the fact that the contract is explicitly stated to turn the attacks into either an accident or an illness upon an random Japanese citizen, it probably is not an application of the contract.

Also the chains by themselves are one of her own ability.
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I disagree with the transferal through her chains not being her Contract. It'd be extremely random and a strange assumption. I know that it's CSM so assumptions need to be made for some stuff, but I think that this is too far. I'd word it:

Due to her Devil Contract with the Prime Minister of Japan, any action perveived as an attack against Makima will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese citizens. This Contract is shown to take effect within a few seconds, however she has also displayed the ability to rapidly transfer attacks to a Japanese Citizen under her Control, allowing for instantaneous transferal of attacks. This Contract can be bypassed via a loophole that what counts as an "attack" depends upon the perception of the one attacking Makima.
 
Zabazab said:
I disagree with the transferal through her chains not being her Contract.
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The contract does explicitly state the transfer happens in the form of illness or accident, which is not how it happens with the chains, but fine.
Zabazab said:
This Contract can be bypassed via a loophole that what counts as an "attack" depends upon the perception of the one attacking Makima.
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This will go into the weakness part of the profile.
 
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