Makima. (Chainsaw Man)

[CowHeadGod]

Yeah, there's no sugarcoating it. The current Chainsaw Man profiles are utter trash despite the popularity of the series. So why not fix some of it, starting with everyone's favourite groomer, Makima

Rework Profile - https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:CowHeadGod/Makima
Old One - https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Makima

However, there's still some points of discussion that I think should be had before the thing's posted

1. Stats & Calcs
   • Gonna be completely honest, I don't know if the current stats are completely accurate. I've been seeing a bunch of calcs and stuff floating around and got no clue if the current pages are up to date with them or not lol
2. Makima's Regen
   • Makima's damage contract thing is hella confusing ngl. Since it's implied that she can possibly regen from being completely eaten (since they expected her to but that didn't happen due to Denji's whole love thing) should low-high (or mid-high?) regeneration be included on her profile since it's higher than the regen on the devil physiology page or should it just be resurrection since both Makima and the narration says that she died
3. Should Power be added as one of her possible controlled minions?
   • Self-explanatory

 

[Giannysmag]

Holy Moly, this is some immaculate cooking

1. Stats & Calcs
   • Gonna be completely honest, I don't know if the current stats are completely accurate. I've been seeing a bunch of calcs and stuff floating around and got no clue if the current pages are up to date with them or not lol

There is currently a crt regarding speed but that doesnt seem to be concluding soon and it also is t proposing any new tiers, just debunking th ecurrent feats we use. Basically rn the stats are fine and we can just change them later if anything new is accepted

1. Makima's Regen
   • Makima's damage contract thing is hella confusing ngl. Since it's implied that she can possibly regen from being completely eaten (since they expected her to but that didn't happen due to Denji's whole love thing) should low-high (or mid-high?) regeneration be included on her profile since it's higher than the regen on the devil physiology page or should it just be resurrection since both Makima and the narration says that she died

I think ressurection makes more sense tbh

1. Should Power be added as one of her possible controlled minions?
   • Self-explanatory

Nah power never got fully controlled by Makima, infact she is the only person in the series to completely break free from her control powers

 

[Zabazab]

This is extremely in-depth and very well put together, thank you for spending time on this.

There are only a few things I wanna mention:

Martial Arts (Able to keep up and eventually overwhelm a "clone" version of Chainsaw Man in pure hand-to-hand combat who was specially trained in combat by Kishibe)

Given that this was Weakened Pochita and not Denji, I don't agree with this justification. She is skilled in hth combat though. I'd suggest changing any mention of 'clone Chainsaw Man' on her profile to 'Weakened Pochita'.

Clairvoyance (Was somehow able to discover the nature of Denji’s contract with Pochita, despite it all taking in place within Denji’s mind, Also was able to know most of the names of those sent to capture Denji's heart despite there being no implication that she possessed any prior knowledge of any of them)

I believe the implication is that she set up the entire attack given she lied about Sawatari dying via a Gun Devil contract and was later seen to have her corpse under Control, meaning she likely already knew their names. Or, she heard their names through the birds seen flying around them.

Mind Manipulation (As the Control Devil, she has the power to take control of everything that she perceives to be lesser than her

Additionally this entire ability appears to be layered similarly to her Memory Manipulation, as she controls Devils easily in spite of their resistance to the Doll Devil's mind manipulation and body puppetry.

Capable of harming both the Darkness Devil, making it bleed profusely

I disagree with Makima's TK scaling to the Darkness Devil. I think it's more likely that she used the biological hax that she was seen using on the yakuza, and that Darkness was seen using earlier in the same chapter. Darkness bled from it's mouths/eyes rather than appearing to receive an impact, and Makima didn't say "Bang" despite her using it for every other offensive TK attack.

Crossbow Hybrid: Also known as Quanxi, she can transform into the Crossbow Hybrid

Quanxi is actually the Bow Hybrid.

Makima's Regen

Yeah, personally I've come to the conclusion that Makima's Contract, despite acting like regen, shouldn't be indexed as such, as it's an application of Law Manipulation which transforms perceived attacks.

Should Power be added as one of her possible controlled minions?

That's fine, she is under Makima's thumb for 99% of the story, and only broke out bc extreme bursts of emotion are a weakness of Control.

I'd suggest also adding Santa's abilities as a possibility for the same reason she has Cosmo or Eternity Devil's abilities.

 

[Emerald]

This new profile goes hard as hell, I agree with most things. The things that I disagree with were listed above by Zabazab.
Honestly man good job that's one of the best profiles I've seen in the wiki

 

[Epiccheev]

Agree with ZabZab, nice job with her profile.

 

[Zabazab]

Stats & Calcs

Yeah what calcs are gonna ultimately be in place is unclear at the moment, but her physically scaling to Weakened Pochita & TK scaling to Black Pochita, as well as her speed upscaling from Quanxi, is correct for currently accepted scaling.

In the future when Fear Scaling is fully implemented however, she could end up with much higher stats (particularly speed).

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think Makima should automatically get abilities that Nayuta has displayed; devils can act differently between reincarnations like the Eternity Devil's power is shown to work differently in its incarnation in the second part of the manga compared to when it showed up the first time.

I also don't agree with this:

Note: As Makima's powers are passive and extend to everyone she meets and controls posthumously, she may possess the powers of Devils with whom she has never had direct control or contact. This is proved by her discovery of Zombie Devil only after Denji had killed it yet it returns as one of her controlled minions later on.

We should only list the ones Makima has been shown to control; not just ones she might hypothetically control.

 

[Lynieryz]

I don't think Makima should automatically get abilities that Nayuta has displayed; devils can act differently between reincarnations like the Eternity Devil's power is shown to work differently in its incarnation in the second part of the manga compared to when it showed up the first time.

That just means it would be OoC for her.

 

[Zabazab]

I don't think Makima should automatically get abilities that Nayuta has displayed; devils can act differently between reincarnations like the Eternity Devil's power is shown to work differently in its incarnation in the second part of the manga compared to when it showed up the first time.

This isn't true. What made you think Eternity Devil's reincarnation had different abilities?

We should only list the ones Makima has been shown to control; not just ones she might hypothetically control.

They have always been listed as a possibility due to the nature of Control. It's why it's "Possibly". The use of Antemortem Devils Contracts & Zombie Devil both prove this is a possibility.

 

[Damage3245]

They have always been listed as a possibility due to the nature of Control. It's why it's "Possibly". The use of Antemortem Devils Contracts & Zombie Devil both prove this is a possibility.

I know. I'm disagreeing with listing them.

This isn't true. What made you think Eternity Devil's reincarnation had different abilities?

The first time the Eternity Devil's powers were used, it was a closed loop; just a single space that if you left the characters would re-enter it. The second time was an infinitely extending space; the characters found duplicates of the same room with duplicate items, etc.

Devils have different appearances and personalities between incarnations. It seems reasonable that this would extend to different abilities or applications of their abilities as well.

 

[Recon1511]

Is the sword Angel uses really instant death inducing? Seems to me he just slashed those dolls and they died because well, they were slashed by a sword lol

 

[Zabazab]

The first time the Eternity Devil's powers were used, it was a closed loop; just a single space that if you left the characters would re-enter it. The second time was an infinitely extending space; the characters found duplicates of the same room with duplicate items, etc.

This is only because of one being a hallway in a one-story building and one being a floor of a stairway. The difference is basically just how each are visually displayed, it's the same ability of making an infinitely looping space where time is stopped. Nayuta is literally just a weaker Makima, ability-wise.

I know. I'm disagreeing with listing them.

Why?

 

[Damage3245]

Why?

Because I don't think it is accurate to the profile to list characters that Makima has never been shown to control.

 

[Emerald]

Is the sword Angel uses really instant death inducing? Seems to me he just slashed those dolls and they died because well, they were slashed by a sword lol

There was no damage on the after they got slashed

 

[Zabazab]

Because I don't think it is accurate to the profile to list characters that Makima has never been shown to control.

But she could control them postmortem, which is why it's "possibly". She doesn't definitively have access to their abilities, but there is reason to believe she might due to how Control functions.

Is there any evidence that she can't?

 

[Recon1511]

There was no damage on the after they got slashed

Well they fall without facing the camera and as far as I remember this is the only time the sword is properly used so without an statement granting someone instant death manip is kinda reaching

 

[GunshyFever]

I don't think Makima should automatically get abilities that Nayuta has displayed; devils can act differently between reincarnations like the Eternity Devil's power is shown to work differently in its incarnation in the second part of the manga compared to when it showed up the first time.

I also don't agree with this:



We should only list the ones Makima has been shown to control; not just ones she might hypothetically control.

The eternity devils abilities were only shown to be different, as previously he had consumed a piece of the gun devils flesh. Later in part 2, his physiology is different because he did not consume the gun devil fragment.

All devils and should scale to their reincarnations as their abilities are bound my their name.

 

[Nierre]

following

great job on the profile

 

[Zabazab]

Well they fall without facing the camera and as far as I remember this is the only time the sword is properly used so without an statement granting someone instant death manip is kinda reaching

They die instantly without being wounded, and the PS Devil Hunters say that it's an amazing ability he should've used at the start.

It can be made "likely" if you'd prefer, but Death Manipulation is a broad enough ability that it's more appropriate than other potential explanations.

 

[Epiccheev]

I've also seen people saying it's an extension of Angel's lifespan stealing ability, where it instantly absorbs all their lifeforce in a cut.

 

[GunshyFever]

I disagree with Makima's TK scaling to the Darkness Devil. I think it's more likely that she used the biological hax that she was seen using on the yakuza, and that Darkness was seen using earlier in the same chapter. Darkness bled from it's mouths/eyes rather than appearing to receive an impact, and Makima didn't say "Bang" despite her using it for every other offensive TK attack.

I disagree, we see makima apply a force to the darkness devil causing his various mouths to erupt with blood, I speculate that some force had to have been applied to cause the darkness devil to have such reactions. We can also speculate that the attack was most likely very strong as, we see her finger twist upon unleashing her attack. It should fall under one of her telekinetic attacks.

 

[Emerald]

We can also speculate that the attack was most likely very strong as, we see her finger twist upon unleashing her attack

Finger twist comes from Darkness Devil. Exactly right after her entire arms snaps back

I disagree, we see makima apply a force to the darkness devil causing his various mouths to erupt with blood

We don't know if she used bang there. Considering she didn't do a finger gun and said "bang", we can't say its TK. It's more likely to be the internal bleeding attack she has and has used once before

 

[GunshyFever]

Finger twist comes from Darkness Devil. Exactly right after her entire arms snaps back

Fair

We don't know if she used bang there. Considering she didn't do a finger gun and said "bang", we can't say its TK. It's more likely to be the internal bleeding attack she has and has used once before

Wouldn't this still count as telekinesis? It may not be in the form of makimas "Bang" attack but it should be some form of telekinesis. We only see makimas Bio manip work against people who are inferior to her such as humans, and she applies that damage by staring at her opponent.

 

[Doggo]

agree FRA

 

[Zabazab]

We only see makimas Bio manip work against people who are inferior to her such as humans, and she applies that damage by staring at her opponent.

That's never stated to be a limit of it, however. She only uses it twice, while Darkness itself uses it once as well.

Wouldn't this still count as telekinesis? It may not be in the form of makimas "Bang" attack but it should be some form of telekinesis.

Why would it? It resembles the bio hax more, unless you think that bio hax was in fact internal TK.

 

[GunshyFever]

That's never stated to be a limit of it, however. She only uses it twice, while Darkness itself uses it once as well.

Ok I agree with this one

Why would it? It resembles the bio hax more, unless you think that bio hax was in fact internal TK.

Yeah I see your point now. In summary you think makimas Bio manip would scale to the darkness devil?

 

[GunshyFever]

Agree FRA

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah I see your point now. In summary you think makimas Bio manip would scale to the darkness devil?

Bio Manip is typically considered a form of durability negation. She still scales to Tier 7 with TK due to drawing blood from Pochita tho.

 

[Recon1511]

They die instantly without being wounded, and the PS Devil Hunters say that it's an amazing ability he should've used at the start.

It can be made "likely" if you'd prefer, but Death Manipulation is a broad enough ability that it's more appropriate than other potential explanations.

I've also seen people saying it's an extension of Angel's lifespan stealing ability, where it instantly absorbs all their lifeforce in a cut.

Well yes this but this is all guesswork isn't it? At most you can get a "possibly" out of this without an statement or you know, more than one use of the sword in the entire series.

 

[Amon.vl]

Agree FRA

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Makima using some kind of biological hax against Darkness Devil is one of the dumbass things. We literally ser Makima pointing at him and thus damaging him. And guess what ability Makima uses by pointing?

Anyway, I agree with the sandbox. Great job

 

[Zabazab]

Makima using some kind of biological hax against Darkness Devil is one of the dumbass things. We literally ser Makima pointing at him and thus damaging him. And guess what ability Makima uses by pointing?

Anyway, I agree with the sandbox. Great job

Lots of abilities are activated by pointing, such as Darkness' ability to turn people into a pile of limbs, Nayuta's mind control, the Mould Devil, etc.

This simply doesn't resemble the effects of Bang, which is an invisible impact, nor does Makima say Bang despite saying it every other time she uses it without exception.

I don't know why you'd say it's a dumbass idea when it has far more support than her TK working completely differently & accidentally resembling her bio hax for this specific instance.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Lots of abilities are activated by pointing, such as Darkness' ability to turn people into a pile of limbs, Nayuta's mind control, the Mould Devil, etc.

None used by Makima. She also didnt pointed to that guy that she killed by a mere look. So no, that vague power that you guys call as biohax doesnt need to point, even in its best show case

This simply doesn't resemble the effects of Bang, which is an invisible impact, nor does Makima say Bang despite saying it every other time she uses it without exception

That chapter is a old one. Fujimoto probably didnt thought about putting her saying "Bang" every time that she bang something

I don't know why you'd say it's a dumbass idea when it has far more support than her TK working completely differently & accidentally resembling her bio hax for this specific instance.

Not more support, no. Biohax is still a big ass vague power for Makima

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

So here’s my thoughts on this. I generally agree with most of the updates and revisions on Makima’s profile. However; there are a few portions of the profile I would reword or outright remove.

Firstly, the ”Varies” AP section should probably be removed. There isn’t enough evidence to show a change in how much fear exists over a concept justifies an entire tier jump. That should probably just go onto the Devil Physiology page for Chainsaw Man.

I also disagree with her Precognition ability. There’s no clear indication she has this power. Given how she has the ability to exercise control over lower life forms, she could just as easily have used rats or birds to gain information about the names of individuals or Denji’s history with Pochita. We also don’t know how much knowledge Makima had of the attack on 7th Division. It’s pretty much implied she knew it was going to happen. For all we know, she could’ve been the one to orchestrate it in the first place. If there was any indication she knew about something where there were confirmed to be no lower life forms, like when Yoshida talked with Kishibe, then I’d say that’s stronger evidence. But right now, there isn’t enough proof to warrant this ability.

I have been reading some of the comments regarding whether Makima used biological manipulation against the Darkness Devil. Personally, I think it’s pretty obvious she was just using her telekinesis. Even if Darkness Devil was bleeding from the eyes, that could easily just be an effect from having his organs destroyed by Makima’s bang. And there’s no proof that she has to say bang every time she uses her telekinesis. It could easily just be a preference of hers to say it. The new sandbox listing biological manipulation as a possible power is fine as it is.

Finally, I’d like to address the note at the bottom of Makima’s profile. This note is based on the idea that Denji killed the Zombie Devil. However, there is evidence to suggest that the Zombie Devil wasn’t killed, but merely taken into custody. There were a horde of zombies at the hotel, and it has been stated that when a devil dies, the effects of their powers get undone. So it’s very possible that Denji only knocked the Zombie Devil unconscious and it was then taken by Public Safety.

Other than that, I think the new sandbox for Makima is good.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The varies rating, despiste being cool and such, need to be applied in every Devil-like profile if accepted

 

[Zabazab]

None used by Makima.

That's not my point. The fact that she pointed means nothing, it's a vague ability activation in CSM. She didn't form a finger-gun, didn't say "Bang", and didn't cause external damage.

She also didnt pointed to that guy that she killed by a mere look. So no, that vague power that you guys call as biohax doesnt need to point, even in its best show case

Being able to kill a human with a look vs needing to use an ability activation gesture just to cause damage to a Primal Fear makes perfect sense.

That chapter is a old one. Fujimoto probably didnt thought about putting her saying "Bang" every time that she bang something

They are only 14 chapters apart from eachother. Additionally, Bang is implied to have been used when she killed the Yakuza on the train many chapters ago, as they were left with massive holes in their torsos.

Finally, I’d like to address the note at the bottom of Makima’s profile. This note is based on the idea that Denji killed the Zombie Devil. However, there is evidence to suggest that the Zombie Devil wasn’t killed, but merely taken into custody. There were a horde of zombies at the hotel, and it has been stated that when a devil dies, the effects of their powers get undone. So it’s very possible that Denji only knocked the Zombie Devil unconscious and it was then taken by Public Safety.

I completely disagree with this. Makima can control dead characters and their abilities such as Kurose & Tendo, Angel, Aki, Princi, and Sawatari.

The Zombie Devil was also completely cut in half, and remained as such for several minutes or up to an ~hour. I think it being alive is a very poor assumption.

Lastly, Denji said that the Yakuza went full-Devil, and remained as Zombies even after Zombie Devil's death.

I also disagree with her Precognition ability.

I assume you mean Clairvoyance.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Being able to kill a human with a look vs needing to use an ability activation gesture just to cause damage to a Primal Fear makes perfect sense.

At this point youre just creating a bunch of headcanon to create some mechanic in a power that wasnt even stated lmao

They are only 14 chapters apart from eachother

Thats about 14 weeks, thats a lot

Additionally, Bang is implied to have been used when she killed the Yakuza on the train many chapters ago, as they were left with massive holes in their torsos.

Did she said bang?

didn't cause external damage.

How could you tell? Darkness Devil is just build different.

 

[Zabazab]

At this point youre just creating a bunch of headcanon to create some mechanic in a power that wasnt even stated lmao

I'm not headcanoning anything, I'm saying one feat was casual while one was done with effort. One was against a random human and another was against a transcendent eldritch monster.

Thats about 14 weeks, thats a lot

Considering how thoroughly planned out this manga is: it's really not.

Did she said bang?

It was entirely offscreen. I'm saying that the fact she blasted holes in them means that the idea that Makima's TK worked totally differently just 14 chapters apart is utter nonsense, since it worked how it is seen in the Control Devil arc way back in the Katana Man arc.

How could you tell? Darkness Devil is just build different.

Because i looked at the image and it's body was undamaged on the outside, it only bled from it's orifices, and received no impact or knockback- it just slumps over.

 

[GunshyFever]

How could you tell? Darkness Devil is just build different.

This can be accurate considering when a strong force is applied, doesn't always have to equate to external damage, The force can be strong enough to cause internal damage on a tremendous level.