Makima. (Chainsaw Man)

[CowHeadGod]

It was referenced at the beginning of this CRT but I'm not aware if it was ever discussed what level of damage Makima's contract allows her to come back from. I'm sure this would be important for future VS matches as it decides if she can even be killed through normal/bodily destruction means.

Yeah, it talked was about in a previous thread that didn't really go anywhere. Personally, I'll put the justification as "At least High-Mid, possibly Mid-High".

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I would be fine with that but we would have to put it as a note on the profile since her form of resurrection is a little special and is analogous to fast regeneration. In fact why don't we refer to it as "Damage Transferal & Limited Resurrection via Regeneration" since it does involve regeneration as part of the resurrection? Damage transferal by itself doesn't account for this and the Resurrection page straight up lists regeneration as an ability that often coexists with resurrection.

 

[CowHeadGod]

I would be fine with that but we would have to put it as a note on the profile since her form of resurrection is a little special and is analogous to fast regeneration.

Added the specification into it's description.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Is there a reason for not adding "via Regeneration" as well?

 

[Zabazab]

Is there a reason for not adding "via Regeneration" as well?

She isn't regenerating, the attack on her is transformed, thus the damage is undone.

 

[LordGinSama]

She isn't regenerating, the attack on her is transformed, thus the damage is undone.

Wouldn’t Type 8 immortality as well which she already has? Tbh you could argue this is an enhanced version of that.


Edit: Obviously this is referring to a single ability out of the Contracts, now all the abilities.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

She isn't regenerating, the attack on her is transformed, thus the damage is undone.

Is there anything that states that or is that just you inferring? Cause to me it just looks like damage transferal and then regeneration. Damage transferal doesn't mean the wound regenerates, our page even states this.

 

[CowHeadGod]

Is there a reason for not adding "via Regeneration" as well?

It's automatically assumed that resurrection comes from regeneration unless specified through other means or at least that's what I got from the resurrection page:

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

It's automatically assumed that resurrection comes from regeneration unless specified through other means or at least that's what I got from the resurrection page:

But I've still seen it listed along with resurrection in other profiles with similar situations.

 

[Zabazab]

Is there anything that states that or is that just you inferring?

Because there's no reason for her to make the Contract otherwise. It'd just be killing citizens of Japan for no reason if the ability shared damage but did not remove the attack from Makima when it transfers. And her explanation of the Contract says so as well:

Attacks made on me will be changed into appropriate illnesses and accidents among Japanese Citizens.

It's automatically assumed that resurrection comes from regeneration unless specified through other means or at least that's what I got from the resurrection page:

That snippet of the page is saying that preferably the level of damage that can be resurrected from should be listed with resurrection using the same system of damage levels as regen, not that resurrection is assumed to come from regen.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Nah power never got fully controlled by Makima, infact she is the only person in the series to completely break free from her control powers

Only because she was reborn using Denji's blood. We never saw her resist Makima's control before her resurrection.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Because there's no reason for her to make the Contract otherwise. It'd just be killing citizens of Japan for no reason if the ability shared damage but did not remove the attack from Makima when it transfers. And her explanation of the Contract says so as well:

To be blunt that doesn't really matter if it works that way or not and I'm not denying that's how it operates but via our current way of categorizing powers and abilities damage transferal alone does not cover all of what Makima's contract does. Damage transferal per our wiki's definition does not include undoing the damage that was done to the user; So to not list the "Undoing" of damage part of Makima's contract would be leaving out an essential part of Makima's ability and not reflect her powers and abilities correctly which is what this wiki is meant to do. What we have to do is substitute it for another ability that "undoes" damage inflicted on the user which in this case would be regeneration. This is the only current way Makima's powers and abilities can be properly listed on the wiki as it is RN; If you have a problem with it I suggest you change the way we treat damage transferal on this wiki via a CRT. Currently I feel this is the best way to properly categorize what her contract does on the wiki.

That snippet of the page is saying that preferably the level of damage that can be resurrected from should be listed with resurrection using the same system of damage levels as regen, not that resurrection is assumed to come from regen.

If that's the case then adding regen is needed because that is how she resurrects.

 

[Zabazab]

Damage transferal per our wiki's definition does not include undoing the damage that was done to the user; So to not list the "Undoing" of damage part of Makima's contract would be leaving out an essential part of Makima's ability and not reflect her powers and abilities correctly which is what this wiki is meant to do.

This is not true.

The damage transferal page says "The ability can also be used to have the target such as an object or person take damage for the user or have the target suffer the same damage they have suffered."

The fact that the ability- without context- may not necessarily remove the damage from the user does not mean that damage transferal cannot account for removing damage from the user.

In fact, the very first example used on the page is Pain Split, which does undo damage.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

This is not true.

The damage transferal page says "The ability can also be used to have the target such as an object or person take damage for the user or have the target suffer the same damage they have suffered."

None of this implies the undoing of damage, just transferal with and without taking damage.

The fact that the ability- without context- may not necessarily remove the damage from the user does not mean that damage transferal cannot account for removing damage from the user.

If that where the case then damage transferal would have a system like regeneration or resurrection where it specifies what level of damage damage transferal undo to the opponent or object. The fact that it doesn't have that system in place indicates it's not meant to undo damage taken on it's own. Once again I link to the line of text at the end of the Wiki's explanation of the ability specifying it does not mean regeneration of wounds; This sentence being at the end of the explanation applies to all the text before it, which is basically the entire explanation of damage transferal.

In fact, the very first example used on the page is Pain Split, which does undo damage.

Pain Split does not undo damage and is actual a really bad example of damage transferal as it isn't even really damage transferal at all.

 

[Rez]

None of this implies the undoing of damage, just transferal with and without taking damage.

Transferring wounds does not necessarily remove the wounds from the afflicted use.

It's a case by case thing

Pain Split does not undo damage and is actual a really bad example of damage transferal as it isn't even really damage transferal at all.

Cool the king character who is listed on damage transferal page then

 

[CowHeadGod]

Only because she was reborn using Denji's blood. We never saw her resist Makima's control before her resurrection.

Thanks for the reply! But yeah, didn't include in the OP, but Makima also does say that if Blood Devil Power hands over Pochita she'll let her become her pet again, giving further credence to this. Aside from that, wondering if I could get your stance on the approval of this CRT.

If that's the case then adding regen is needed because that is how she resurrects.

That's not how this wiki indexes resurrection even if it's through regeneration. Every instance I've seen of profiles that bothers to index the level of resurrection indexes it like: "Resurrection (Level of resurrection potency; Explanation of how the person resurrects)" like how it's currently written in the sandbox.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also I'm doubtful on Makima's level of Regeneration. Feces still contains living cells and DNA, it's not turned into vapor. There's plenty of DNA and cells left over so using the digestion process is fault because it doesn't dissolve all of the cells from food. Thus I disagree with Mid-High on the basis that all of her biology isn't reduced to plasma, ash, dust, or vapor. There's still plenty of cells and living DNA in the stuff, if it were complete incineration of one's biology then there wouldn't be any remnants, thus feces.

 

[Zabazab]

The odds of living tissues surviving the process of being thoroughly cooked & fully digested is very very low. Digestion even breaks down nucleotides in DNA & turns proteins into a soup of amino acids.

I don't really get why you'd call faeces a remnant that isn't comparable to be reduces to ash or plasma just because it's a solid. Carbonization is Mid-High due to destroying all biology, but it can still leave a full (totally charred) corpse.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Cool the king character who is listed on damage transferal page then

Is there a specific page for that? Because I feel that's such a small thing to make a CRT on.

That's not how this wiki indexes resurrection even if it's through regeneration. Every instance I've seen of profiles that bothers to index the level of resurrection indexes it like: "Resurrection (Level of resurrection potency; Explanation of how the person resurrects)" like how it's currently written in the sandbox.

Zabazab earlier explained that resurrection potency is only in reference to what a character can resurrect from and not that it's done through regeneration. If that's how the wiki does it than I'm fine with it but profiles like this (Which seems to be a very well maintained profile) list the ability like this.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Oh, also shouldn't Makima have Limited Immortality Type 4 via her contract as well?

 

[CowHeadGod]

If that's how the wiki does it than I'm fine with it

Yeah, plenty of other well-maintained profiles list the ability like I said earlier, e.g:

• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Anos_Voldigoad
• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Asriel_Dreemurr_(Flowey)#God_of_Hyperdeath
• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Veldora_Tempest_(Light_Novel)

Oh, also shouldn't Makima have Limited Immortality Type 4 via her contract as well?

Immortality type 4 is already listed on the general devil physiology page albeit the immortality is through a different way

 

[Zabazab]

Would Makima have Immortality Type 8 (reliant on her Contract with the PM?)

 

[LordGinSama]

The odds of living tissues surviving the process of being thoroughly cooked & fully digested is very very low. Digestion even breaks down nucleotides in DNA & turns proteins into a soup of amino acids.

Yet that process doesn't break down DNA and cells entirely. Scat still contains enough living cells and leftover DNA to the point where you can identify animals. There plenty of living bacteria and cells left over after the process of digestion.

I don't really get why you'd call faeces a remnant that isn't comparable to be reduces to ash or plasma just because it's a solid. Carbonization is Mid-High due to destroying all biology, but it can still leave a full (totally charred) corpse.

False comparison, ash doesn't contain any living DNA or cells. Only in very rare cases is DNA and living cells are still present in ashes. It's not it being a solid as much as it is there still being plenty of left over living cells, DNA and living tissue. Microbiomes are still a thing after all. Digestion is also very different than carbonization, carbonization effects all living cells. Digestion doesn't.


It's silly to even make that comparison.

 

[Epiccheev]

The odds of living tissues surviving the process of being thoroughly cooked & fully digested is very very low. Digestion even breaks down nucleotides in DNA & turns proteins into a soup of amino acids.

Yet that process doesn't break down DNA and cells entirely. Scat still contains enough living cells and leftover DNA to the point where you can identify animals. There plenty of living bacteria and cells left over after the process of digestion.

Never thought we'd have a debate this deep on powerscaling Denji's feces but here we are

 

[Zabazab]

Yet that process doesn't break down DNA and cells entirely. Scat still contains enough living cells and leftover DNA to the point where you can identify animals. There plenty of living bacteria and cells left over after the process of digestion.

That article refers to scat-sampling animals, which do not cook their food before eating & digesting it. Makima was dismembered, stored in a fridge for however long, and then cooked & eaten over the course of probably a week or more.

 

[LordGinSama]

That article refers to scat-sampling animals, which do not cook their food before eating & digesting it.

That wasn't the point. The point was that there's still plenty of living cells and matter within feces, animal or human. Also pretty sure cooking food doesn't have any impact, even cooked food still contains traces of living bacteria and microbiomes after digestion. Last but not least, Denji also ate some of her raw. He didn't just throw her in a oven and call it a day. I also find it funny that Denji literally has culinary feats that probably outdo most famous chefs.

Makima was dismembered, stored in a fridge for however long, and then cooked & eaten over the course of probably a week or more.

Being dismembered is pretty much irrelevant here, same with being stored for however long. That has no effects on how digestion works, and she wasn't fully cooked. Quite literally he ate some of her raw, her blood and even most of the cooked ones are medium rare.


Also I'm like 99% we're all on a government list because of this debate lmfao

 

[Doggo]

most sane vsbw thread

 

[AguilaR202]

The world wars didn't happen so this is more of a low-end than a high ball.

It doesn’t work like that IRL the lack of war could very well leave Japan less developed and less inclined to have a population boom.

 

[LordGinSama]

It doesn’t work like that IRL the lack of war could very well leave Japan less developed and less inclined to have a population boom.

That's actually valid as ****. Forgot that Japan's population blew up after world War 2.

 

[GunshyFever]

Makima was dismembered, stored in a fridge for however long, and then cooked & eaten over the course of probably a week or more.

Being dismembered is pretty much irrelevant here, same with being stored for however long.

Chainsaw Man Powerscaling

 

[Recon1511]

Didn't we have this whole debate already...?

 

[Epiccheev]

What is the shelf life of Makima meat?

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

All cells within the human body die within a couple of days and digestion breaks down food on the molecular level so any food that is digested is without a doubt destroyed however not everything eaten is completely digested. So unfortunately I'm gonna have to agree with Gin here because unless Denji's digestive system is built different, I cant see him being able to completely digest Makima's bones.

 

[Zabazab]

I cant see him being able to completely digest Makima's bones

Realistically he prepared the bones with... whatever cooking methods are common for bone consumption.

 

[Rez]

Bump

 

[CowHeadGod]

Would Makima have Immortality Type 8 (reliant on her Contract with the PM?)

Yes, her contract does fit under that

 

[azontr]

Damage ain't ever coming back to this thread

 

[Epiccheev]

Damage may have left

Spoiler

But the Goat returned

 

[azontr]

Facts.

 

[LordGinSama]

Damage ain't ever coming back to this thread

That's because he has his hands tied dealing with crazed OP fans.

One Piece and Chainsaw Man have the most random and crazy fans tbh lmfao. Which probably explains why most OP fans like CSM.