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Magic the Gathering Revisions

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I have been stewing over this for a while now, so lets get this over with.

For starters, I just wanna say this is part one of a massive series of revisions, but this is probably the most crucial I have seen that needs to be implemented.

All Planeswalkers have various immortalities. Type 1 and 3 are already added, but they also have type's 6, 8 and 9.

Planeswalkers pre mending are described as 'part of the universe' and not part of it. They are transcendant beyond worlds. Because of their planeswalker spark, they are now immortal. We can see this below as Jaya described this.

Jodah also theorized, that the death of a planeswalker is likely to be the reason for their ascension, so they are also undead.

Finally, and this is likely the only thing that applies to pre and post mending is they are dependant on their spark to survive, without their spark, they die (usually, the only known surviver I can think of who gave up his spark and was fine was Teferi.)

We also see supporting evidence for this when Venser died after giving his spark to Karn, which revived him to save his life later on in the story.

In short, Planeswalkers are trascendant, holding a part of infinity, dead already and are dependant on their spark to survive and travel the multiverse freely.

Also, not sure if being 'part' and 'not part' of a universe counts as Non-Corporeal.

This scales to practically every planeswalker pre mending in the verse, Jaya just became a planeswalker and is even now in the story, isnt exactly the strongest planeswalker. Considering Freyalise gave Jaya a 'small part of infinity' and we have seen planeswalker shape universes or even create them, it is safe to assume this is the low end for most planeswalkers and all planeswalkers scale in a similar matter.

TLDR: Immortality Types 1,3, 7, 8 and 9 are being proposed.

Pre-Mending stats (if they haven't been changed yet, because I remember a few 3-A') are all Low 2-C

Non-Corporeal due to not having a 'physical' form.


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I feel like there may be someone better-suited to look this over, since I have absolute zero knowledge on MtG beyond the fact that it's connected to D&D somehow. (I think)

However, as far as the propositions in the OP are concerned, they seem legitimate enough to me.
 
TBH. Connecting it to DND opens up a can of worms regarding high tiers ap.

In MTG, the multiverse is large, and finite. Or Infinite. No one 'knows'

I think it applies in DND as well and that might lead to downgrades in the future.

Can you highlight this?
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
A lot of pre mending ones are 2-A
1, 3, 6, and 9 seem fine, but iffy on type 8
Based on Bolas lifting the multiverse, with conflicting statements.

And only Urza and Bolas are, which when I gather more evidence, they will probably be 'At Least 2-B, likely 2-A'

Only a few planeswalkers are in this tier tbh. Karn, Sorin etc.

Most like Serra, Freyalise, Early Karn etc will be this tier.

And as for type 8, https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Planeswalker's_spark

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Kar

You can read more about that here. I know wikia isnt a reliable source of information, but Karn died without his spark, so Venser gave him his.

It is what gives them their powers anyway, such as the ability to siphon mana from multiple planes.
 
DMUA said:
>Type 6
I think you meant Type 7, Actually being immune to death via being dead.
See I always confused the two, I never understood why ovo.

I have been on the wiki for years and I keep messing this up.
 
SinsofMan said:
TBH. Connecting it to DND opens up a can of worms regarding high tiers ap.
In MTG, the multiverse is large, and finite. Or Infinite. No one 'knows'

I think it applies in DND as well and that might lead to downgrades in the future.
Okay, no, it won't affect D&D at all, there's far far too much stuff supporting 2-A, and some stuff supporting High 2-A and beyond.

The Multiverse itself is very high in 2-A, as the Abyss is already 2-A (Infinite amount of infinite Sized Planes stacked on top of each other) Multiple other Infinite Planes with some like the Abyss, the Immortals being STATED to be 5-D and so on and so forth.

MtG not having a Infinite Multiverse has NOTHING to do with D&D, they may have camoes but they are vastly different.
 
Udlmaster said:
I'm not sure you read my comment.
Yeah I didnt lol

I wanted to add I only care about MTG rn, not DND.

As for the statement on connecting the two multiverses

No comment.

I am just reading the books and rn, as I see it. Nicol Bolas tier and feat is highly speculative.
 
Udlmaster said:
as the Abyss is already 2-A (Infinite amount of infinite Sized Planes stacked on top of each other)
Isn't Infinite Infinite Multiverses already High 2-A?

Or am I misunderstanding your comment?
 
SinsofMan said:
TBH. Connecting it to DND opens up a can of worms regarding high tiers ap.

In MTG, the multiverse is large, and finite. Or Infinite. No one 'knows'

I think it applies in DND as well and that might lead to downgrades in the future.

Can you highlight this?
Depends on the canon of D&D. Sometimes the cosmology is 2-C, other times its High 1-B. [I wrote a big list about the editions here.] I believe 5e currently has vaguely 2-A status for the core area.

On topic the changes seem fine, but I would like more explination about the Low 2-C upgrade. Also the non-corporeal thing sounds sorta weird, mind expanding on that as well?
 
That's fine, I just wanted to address the connection between MtG and D&D, I wanted to make sure that everyone knows there's a big reason for D&D's Greater Gods and such to be 2-A or higher.

We already have enough on our plates with the Composite Adventurer. Having to re-go through the entire verse for the 4th time (Not even kidding, it'll be the 4th time we've done it.)
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Depends on the canon of D&D. Sometimes the cosmology is 2-C, other times its High 1-B. [I wrote a big list about the editions here.] I believe 5e currently has vaguely 2-A status for the core area.

On topic the changes seem fine, but I would like more explination about the Low 2-C upgrade.
As I try to avoid more derailing (also, please hold off on DND and MTG being the same multiverse for now...)

This is more of a baseline planeswalker, but the feats a 'typical' planeswalker premending can do.

-Reality Warp an entire Plane (Karn and Nicol Bolas did this.)

-Create a plane (the planeswalker that created Phyrexia and Serra also created a plane.)

-Freyalise stated herself that she holds a small part of 'infinity', which would be High 3-A/Low 2-C

So it is a baseline for now

Generally speaking, all pre-mending planeswalkers who do not have feats will be this level.

Also plan on creating a few new keys. Karn will likely have a Low 2-C key different from the other keys
 
Finally, and this is likely the only thing that applies to pre and post mending is they are dependant on their spark to survive, without their spark, they die (usually, the only known surviver I can think of who gave up his spark and was fine was Teferi.)

Actually, there's also Azor using his spark to make the Golden Sun of Ixalan, pre-mending.

I will say pre-mending immortality is dependent on it.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Finally, and this is likely the only thing that applies to pre and post mending is they are dependant on their spark to survive, without their spark, they die (usually, the only known surviver I can think of who gave up his spark and was fine was Teferi.)
Actually, there's also Azor using his spark to make the Golden Sun of Ixalan.
If that is the case, then we have two outliers with Azor and Teferi now.

Type 8 seems to be the most contested right now, and I am unsure if I wanna write of both Karn and Venser as special cases tbh.
 
Tbese are my current questions: Are planes they effected infinite in scope amd did they effect the plane in such a way to warrent a Low 2-C rating instead of 3-A? Also does the portion of Infinity just what powers them or can they be used to attack? Because someone like Android 17/18 in DBZ have infinite energy but can only use it in limited amounts.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Tbese are my current questions: Are planes they effected infinite in scope amd did they effect the plane in such a way to warrent a Low 2-C rating instead of 3-A? Also does the portion of Infinity just what powers them or can they be used to attack? Because someone like Android 17/18 in DBZ have infinite energy but can only use it in limited amounts.
Short answers

Yes/No. Some planes have a undescribed size, others are described by Urza as infinite.A good example of a infinite plane would be Dominaria and a good example of a small plane that is likely the size of a planet is Shandalar.

You can read more about it here: https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Plane

Powers them, the planeswalker spark allows them to get mana from across the multiverse, which gives them their tier as they are powered by it. Without it, if assuming what Dargoo said is true, they are at best only as strong as the mana they can get from the plane itself. With it however, they can absorb mana from anywhere.

It honestly depends if you take Freyalise statement as truth. Considering she is a planeswalker and she should know a part of her own powers, it is likely she is telling the truth, the rest are just support feats in favor of this one statmenet.

If you dont, I have some more feats such as a few from Urza and Freyalise that can be interpreted as 2-C and the Shards of Alara merging would be 2-C as well.
 
We're doing this now? Ok.

Immortalities seem fine, though I will say that some other really old planeswalkers have also given up their sparks before without dying. May be early installment weirdness though. Jeska/Phage was actually saved by her spark when Phage de-fused, if you haven't brought that up yet. They don't always ignite on otherwise death though. Elspeth's activated during torture, Jace's during mental stress, in some really old and obscure stuff you could brute force your way into planeswalkerness just by having a massive amount of mana.

I think the only 3-As are Ob Nixilis and Liliana. Idk about Low 2-C Liliana tbh, don't know that much about Oldwalker Nixilis.
 
I think immortality makes sense and is in line with MTG planeswalkers as a whole.

I know quite a bit about Magic but a bit less about early lore (Harder to get my hands on) but I'm willing to try and research something if needed.
 
yet another franchise i already despise without knowing much about it. I hate every universe that has tons of 2-A characters. MTG, diggimon, all those anime girls with tier 1 feats. they are stupidly overpowered.
 
"Yet another franchise I already despise without knowing much about it" See that's where you went wrong.

That's a pretty bad reason to dislike a verse, especially when there's almost no 2-As left in present lol. Feel free to take your complaints to the thread on my wall, second or third page, labeled "Mindhax Part 2" where we helped another user get over their grievances with powerful verses as a concept. This is totally irrelevant to the revision though, so no more of this here.
 
Wokistan here speaking the truth.

But yes, back on track.
 
Arceus0x said:
yet another franchise i already despise without knowing much about it. I hate every universe that has tons of 2-A characters. MTG, diggimon, all those anime girls with tier 1 feats. they are stupidly overpowered.
Well, I'm glad to know you won't be going anywhere near D&D because having an attitude like that, yeah, I feel sorry for the francises you do like.

But do go on about how Pokemon is the greatest.
 
Let's not start unrelated conflict.
 
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