Low 7-B Tournament - Smaug vs Amaura (LOTR vs Pokemon)

[Armorchompy]

Speed Equalized, fight takes place outside a parking lot if smaug can even fit in one.

Smaug is 5.17 Megatons, Phoenix Man is =<1.45 Megatons, 3.565 AP advantage for Smaug

Smaug: 6, Saman, Bambu, Ret_of_Guys, Me, Imaginym, Tllmbrg

Amaura: 0

Incon: 0

 

[Armorchompy]

@Mr._Bambu @Kachon123

 

[Mr. Bambu]

How in-character is it for the guy to increase his body heat as such? That would be well beyond Smaug's ability to deal with, since his sole forms of combat are physical attack (which would harm him a lot) and fire (irrelevant).

 

[Kachon123]

How in-character is it for the guy to increase his body heat as such?

Very in-character. It's a starting tactic.

That would be well beyond Smaug's ability to deal with, since his sole forms of combat are physical attack (which would harm him a lot) and fire (irrelevant).

What is does level of heat resistance look like?

 

[Armorchompy]

Very in-character. It's a starting tactic.

I may be misremembering, but it doesn't stay like that forever, right? Like, he can't passively stay on fire all the time.

 

[Kachon123]

I may be misremembering, but it doesn't stay like that forever, right? Like, he can't passively stay on fire all the time.

Not in his base, although simply flapping his wings produces extreme heat, flames, and explosions.

In his Prominence Hawk form, however, he emits flames and heat from his body, which burns and melts what it touches. In his Full Power Prominence Hawk form, the heat increases to 10000º C.

 

[Armorchompy]

Ah.

I did like, ban someone from the tourney for the exact same "can become so hot melee becomes impossible" thing


so.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Then yeah Smaug is toasted. The argument exists that he might be able to damage Phoenix Man enough to kill him just out of sheer AP advantage before his body melts, depending on how big of an area the guy covers with said heat (if its body temp, it might be fine), but no matter what Smaug would at the very least be horribly deformed, and more likely probably die of his wounds.

I think this probably ends up being a stomp, given that there's other more hazy abilities to contend with, but Smaug has nothing here.

 

[Armorchompy]

Phoenix Man might be getting swapped for someone else actually, the fire stuff kinda invalidates half the tourney and res is pretty strong too

 

[SamanPatou]

Idk if PM will get swapped, but for now I'll give my two cents.

The scenario is almost a replica of PM's battle in opm.
Iirc Smaug doesn't really have a standard tactic, and given the situation I think he'd just try to erase the cosplayer with a fire breath at first, also given the distance.
When confronted by a direct beam attacks, PW replied with his own gust of flames, but if he attempts this as a counter he'd likely have his attack overwhelmed by Smaug's stronger and bigger fire. PM doesn't have fire resistance, but he can instantly change to his prominence mode, which constantly covered in fire and can withstand the bonkers heat mentioned above, so he's likely to take the force but not get really burned.

Still, he can always try to dodge. And in fact, here lies his strength. In the manga he had to almost immediately battle a giant robot, which was much smaller than Smaug, but I can see him employng the same tactic.
PM basically flew away and dodged several sword strikes in mid air, then changed into his superior speed move and proceeded to fly around the robot and slash it from various angles.

I can see DW trying to do the same to Smaug, with the advantage of being in an open area instead of an underground chamber like in the manga. Smaug might have some troubles hitting such a small, fast and agile character, but at the same time he is quite durable and his size might make it more difficult for PM, to land very effective its, even though long albeit small cuts all over the body are still wounds.
PM can also shoot homing blasts, so we might have a "planes vs king kong situation".

We might have to consider that PM might notice Smaug's belly and tell that the jewels work as a protection and try to destroy them, although thinking of it as a weak spot might not be an immediate assumption.

And now we arrive at the fuckton degrees thing, which he pulled off when the giant robot tried to crush him with a fist.
Given his LS, Delusional Man might even be able to catch or resist a physical strike from Smaug and then try to melt him, which would be quite effective regardless of his size. PM could also turn into a penguin and drop a giant icicle on Smaug which, albeit possibly not that effective, is still something.

Overall, I (sadly) think PM might win even aside from the 10k degrees thing.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Idk if PM will get swapped, but for now I'll give my two cents.

The scenario is almost a replica of PM's battle in opm.
Iirc Smaug doesn't really have a standard tactic, and given the situation I think he'd just try to erase the cosplayer with a fire breath at first, also given the distance.
When confronted by a direct beam attacks, PW replied with his own gust of flames, but if he attempts this as a counter he'd likely have his attack overwhelmed by Smaug's stronger and bigger fire. PM doesn't have fire resistance, but he can instantly change to his prominence mode, which constantly covered in fire and can withstand the bonkers heat mentioned above, so he's likely to take the force but not get really burned.

Still, he can always try to dodge. And in fact, here lies his strength. In the manga he had to almost immediately battle a giant robot, which was much smaller than Smaug, but I can see him employng the same tactic.
PM basically flew away and dodged several sword strikes in mid air, then changed into his superior speed move and proceeded to fly around the robot and slash it from various angles.

I can see DW trying to do the same to Smaug, with the advantage of being in an open area instead of an underground chamber like in the manga. Smaug might have some troubles hitting such a small, fast and agile character, but at the same time he is quite durable and his size might make it more difficult for PM, to land very effective its, even though long albeit small cuts all over the body are still wounds.
PM can also shoot homing blasts, so we might have a "planes vs king kong situation".

We might have to consider that PM might notice Smaug's belly and tell that the jewels work as a protection and try to destroy them, although thinking of it as a weak spot might not be an immediate assumption.

And now we arrive at the fuckton degrees thing, which he pulled off when the giant robot tried to crush him with a fist.
Given his LS, Delusional Man might even be able to catch or resist a physical strike from Smaug and then try to melt him, which would be quite effective regardless of his size. PM could also turn into a penguin and drop a giant icicle on Smaug which, albeit possibly not that effective, is still something.

Overall, I (sadly) think PM might win even aside from the 10k degrees thing.

I agree he probably would, he has a lot going on. The 10k degrees thing just makes it basically moot to discuss.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I was thinking he should be swapped

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright, switching to Amaura! @Spinoirr

 

[Spinoirr]

Alright

 

[Imaginym]

Perhaps possibly pertinent Pokedex entries for Amaura?:

Y	This calm Pokémon lived in a cold land where there were no violent predators like Tyrantrum.

Ultra Sun	It lived in cold areas in ancient times. It's said that when Amaura whinnies, auroras appear in the night sky.
Ultra Moon	Amaura was restored successfully, but it's not expected to live long because of the heat of the current environment.

Sword	This Pokémon was successfully restored from a fossil. In the past, it lived with others of its kind in cold lands where there were fewer predators.

(Also, the profile needs work. Aurorus is described as "quiet & kindly", but never "polite" like the weaknesses section claims of it.)

Anyway, Smaus is probably quite a threatening opponent for Amaura, given it supposedly doesn't deal well with hot climates (Despite being neutral to Fire-type moves.), so fire breath is probably worse.

Opening move seems unclear. Its naturally calm. SBA says, on State of Mind:

Spoiler: SBA on State of Mind

State of mind: In character, but will attempt to win the battle. Characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.
Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

So Amaura is IC, but will attempt to win, views Smaug as an enemy, assumes they intend to cause severe harm & such.

I can't find any indication that Amaura has any held items (Yes, it can be found wild. Sw/Sh DLC.)
Having abilities, Amaura has Snow Warning, which means it starts Hailing when it enters the battle.

Hail damages combatants that are not Ice-type. Before Gen 5, Hail lasted indefinitely. As of Gen 5, it lasted 5 turns.
As of Gen 9, Hail is replaced by Snow, which, instead of dealing damage, increases the Defense of Ice-types by 50%.

So how does Snow Warning work here?
For that matter, Pokemon Legends: Arceus has the Freeze status replaced with Frostbite. Quote Bulbapedia:
"Frostbite inflicts damage equal to 1/16 of the target's maximum HP every turn, and it reduces damage dealt by its special moves during this time. When it is snowing, moves that may inflict frostbite are more likely to do so. Ice-type Pokémon cannot get frostbite."
What about that?

Nonetheless, if Amaura is most known for summoning Auroras when whinnying, then it seems plausible it'd go for Aurora moves.
Absurdly, it only gets Aurora Veil by breeding, but still, it seems IC.
Aurora Veil halves physical & special damage the user & its allies receive for 5 turns, but can only be initiated during Hail/Snow.

Aurora Beam: The target is hit with a rainbow-colored beam. This may also lower the target's Attack stat.
(Strangely, in Gen 1, the chance was 85/256, or 33.2%. Considering this move is 65 Base Power & can't even inflict Freeze, who the the frozen heck thought this move needed to be nerfed?)

Oh, & it gets Electric-type moves, presumably because aurora borealis electricity science stuff:
Thunder Wave: "The user launches a weak jolt of electricity that paralyzes the target." (This is a level-up move for Amaura, surprisingly.)
Magnet Rise: "The user levitates using electrically generated magnetism for five turns." (An Egg Move, but probably not IC unless it needs to rise up to Smaug flying or something.)
Discharge: "The user strikes everything around it by letting loose a flare of electricity. This may also leave those hit by the attack with paralysis." (Also an Egg Move. Chance of inflicting paralysis is 30%.)

Electric-type regional variant/fake/convergent form, evolution or Paradox Pokemon form of something from Amaura's line when?

It's also possible Amaura would go for other Ice-type moves, since it has discomfort (Or at least, lifespan reduction.) with warm temperatures already.
It should be noted that the Pokemon Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon Pokedex entries are from the Alola games - Alola is Pokemon's version of Hawaii, & predictably, is not a very cold climate, except for on top of 1 of its mountains.

Powder Snow: "The user attacks with a chilling gust of powdery snow. This may also leave opposing Pokémon frozen." (10% chance of Freezing.)
Icy Wind: "The user attacks with a gust of chilled air. This also lowers opposing Pokémon's Speed stats." (Chance of Speed drop is 99.6% or 255/256 in Gen 2, but 100% in any other generation. 95% Accuracy hinders that, though. Also, I think that description has a possessiveness grammar error, unless the plural possessive of "Pokemon" is "Pokemon's".)
Freeze-Dry: "The user rapidly cools the target. This may also leave the target frozen. This move is super effective on Water types." (10% chance to Freeze. Surprisingly, but probably irrelevantly, Freeze-Dry is "Super-Effective" on Water-type targets even in Inverse Battles or if the user has the Normalize Ability.)
Ice Beam: "The target is struck with an icy-cold beam of energy. This may also leave the target frozen." (10% chance to Freeze. As of Gen 6 onwards, it has 90 Base Power instead of 95.)
Blizzard: "A howling blizzard is summoned to strike opposing Pokémon. This may also leave the opposing Pokémon frozen." (30% chance to Freeze in the Japanese Pokemon Red & Green games, 90% Accuracy in all Gen 1 games, 10% chance to Freeze & 70% Accuracy otherwise. Bypasses Accuracy to hit during Hail/Snow.)
Avalanche: "This move's power is doubled if the target has inflicted damage on the user in the same turn." (Makes the user go last via negative priority. Strangely, Amaura's line only learns this in Generation 6 & 7.)

It's also possible it could go for sound-based moves, given the apparent notoriety of its whinnying & the effects of that.
But its only sound-moves it learns by Level-Up are:

Round: "The user attacks the target with a song. If others use this move, they will act immediately after the initial user, and the power of their Rounds will be boosted."
& Growl: "The user growls in an endearing way, making opposing Pokémon less wary. This lowers their Attack stats."
Round is kinda pointless when not used in a group. ....Though it is among Amaura's other Ice-type moves, since all of its Normal-type moves become instead via Refrigerate & also get a power boost (1.3x in Gen 6, 1.2x in Generation 7 onwards.) as well. But it's still too weak if used alone, but I guess being an Ice-type sound-based move MIGHT make it a bit more IC?

& as for Growl, however cute (or not) Smaug may find that of Aurora to do, I assume Smaug would just laugh & still try to kill it, even if he is put to -1 ATK by it. (IIRC, in game mechanics, that's about 66.6% or two thirds of base.

If we're accounting for its Ice-type moves that include its Normal-type moves affected by Refrigerate:
Take Down: "A reckless full-body charge attack for slamming into the target. This also damages the user a little."(90 BP, 85% Accuracy. Recoil is equal to 25% of the damage dealt.)
Hyper Beam: "The target is attacked with a powerful beam. The user can't move on the next turn." (Surprising that Amaura can learn this, considering it's a 1st stage Pokemon.)

Oh, & it's also a Pokemon that naturally learns.... Nature Power.
Which is technically Normal-type, but also a Status move, & which transforms into a different move (Declaring the name, & taking on the animation, type & effect of the move it becomes.) depending on where it's used, so IDK if it gets boosted & type-changed by Refrigerate or not.

Also, this makes the location chosen by the OP relevant!

Speed Equalized, fight takes place outside a parking lot if smaug can even fit in one.

So, what do we count this as? AFAIK, the most fitting candidates seem like:
Building, road, plain terrain, and link battles:
Tri Attack: "The user strikes with a simultaneous three-beam attack. This may also burn, freeze, or paralyze the target." (Tri Attack does damage and has a 20% chance of either paralyzing, freezing, or burning the target. Each ailment has an equal chance of being inflicted.)
Cave:
Power Gem: "The user attacks with a ray of light that sparkles as if it were made of gemstones." (Buffed from 70 BP to 80 BP as of Gen 6. Surprisingly, has had the same move description since its debut in Gen 5. Also, this is a light-based Rock-type move, & Amaura's line are Rock-types (Admittedly, because fossils.) based on the lights of the aurora borealis. WHY IS THIS THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN LEARN IT?!)
Sand and rock:
Earth Power: "The user makes the ground under the target erupt with power. This may also lower the target's Sp. Def stat." (20% of inflicting the drop. Defensive stats as a whole in Pokemon: Legends Arceus. Also, considering this may involve lava or magma, probably an unpleasant result for Amaura.)
In some games, Cave & Rock, as well as several areas in Colosseum & XD (Pyrite Town, The Under, Cipher Key Lair (outside), Citadark Isle (outside), Rock Poké Spot, Pyrite Colosseum, Mt. Battle (Areas 7-10), or the Crystal, Magma or Stargazer Colosseums.) result in:
Rock Slide: "Large boulders are hurled at opposing Pokémon to inflict damage. This may also make the opposing Pokémon flinch." (30% flinch chance.)
& in some games, "Sand", "Plain terrain", "Rock" & "Link Battle" & some locations (Outskirt Stand, Phenac City, Cipher Lab (outside)), result in:
Earthquake: "The user sets off an earthquake that strikes every Pokémon around it."
"Bridge" terrain (Found in Generation 8, & not Gen 5, despite Unova having multiple famous bridges.) results in:
Air Slash: "The user attacks with a blade of air that slices even the sky. This may also make the target flinch." (95% Accuracy. 30% flinch chance. )
& if you count a parking lot as a "Burial Ground", you could also count:
Shadow Ball: "The user attacks by hurling a shadowy blob at the target. This may also lower the target’s Sp. Def stat." (20% of inflicting the drop. "Defensive stats"as a whole in Pokemon Legends Arceus, like with Earth Power.)


This is FAR from all of the possible results for Nature Power, especially when fully considering side-games &/or games like Colosseum, XD, Pokemon Battle Revolution, etc.

Nature Power (move) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Oh my gosh, why are you complicated, Nature Power?!


Anyway, hopefully this helps analyze Amaura, & hopefully I didn't go overboard.

Anyone know the AP situation for Amaura?

 

[SamanPatou]

I think Amaura wouldn't make it in time to employ any particular tactic before getting roasted.

It's natural weakness to heat can't be ignored and Smaug's body heat alone can melt metal (even if overtime, is still notable) so we can assume his fire to be at least as hot if not more.
Smaug is also about 3.5x stronger (1.45 vs 5.17), is much larger, his fire covers a great distance and it is quite in character for him to start and use it.

 

[Imaginym]

I think Amaura wouldn't make it in time to employ any particular tactic before getting roasted.

It's natural weakness to heat can't be ignored and Smaug's body heat alone can melt metal (even if overtime, is still notable) so we can assume his fire to be at least as hot if not more.

Technically, its Ice/Rock type so it takes neutral damage from Fire-type moves.
& we don't know just how severely Alola's hot climate apparently hinders it. It could be a few years off a relatively long lifespan, or illnesses or such that may not come up in a combat-relevant timeframe.

Also, just how long does Smaug take to melt metal? Could he win the temperature war vs Ice-type moves?
& then again, temperature may not relevant for Aurora Beam, as that's light manipulation.
Also, Smaug would be doing this in a colder environment than typical. due to Hail/Snow.

To say nothing of the Rock & Electric-type moves.

Smaug is also about 3.5x stronger (1.45 vs 5.17), is much larger, his fire covers a great distance and it is quite in character for him to start and use it.

Isn't that AP analysis between Smaug & Phoenix Man, not Smaug & Amaura?
Also, Aurora Veil would halve the damage taken by Amaura. (At least, temporarily.)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't believe Smaug is negatively affected by a colder environment (at least, there's no intel that he's particularly bothered by snow). Normal ice would be fairly quickly destroyed by steel-melting flame of any caliber.

Which moves of the Pokemon afford 10km range? Depending on what they are, Smaug would probably just play ranged, since its actually an option here and is entirely in-character.

 

[SamanPatou]

Technically, its Ice/Rock type so it takes neutral damage from Fire-type moves.
& we don't know just how severely Alola's hot climate apparently hinders it. It could be a few years off a relatively long lifespan, or illnesses or such that may not come up in a combat-relevant timeframe.

This is a case of lore bypassing typing honestly, since it's specifically Amaura's weakness. And while he wouldn't of course die immediately from environmental heat, it still is susceptible to heat, and fire is just the same enhanced to a million (hyperbole)

Also, just how long does Smaug take to melt metal? Could he win the temperature war vs Ice-type moves?

While the gold under Smaug's belly melted overtime, it still was exposed to a temperature high enough to trigger the process. And this was through his natural body heat, not even the fiery breath.
About the temperature war, it pretty much depends on how we handle pkmn's, because technically the classic "freezing a character whole" requires insane temperatures.
But honestly Amaura would have to start with Blizzard and just spam it, but Smaug's breath is still bigger and stronger.

Also, Smaug would be doing this in a colder environment than typical. due to Hail/Snow.

in game hail and snow don't lower the power of fire moves like rain does, and by irl logic hail and snow are totally ineffective even on normal fire, in terms of environmental temperature.

Isn't that AP analysis between Smaug & Phoenix Man, not Smaug & Amaura?
Also, Aurora Veil would halve the damage taken by Amaura. (At least, temporarily.)

Pkmns also scale to that value.
Aurora Veil must be set up, and while useful, it could cost Amaura some free damage or not be its starting move.

 

[Imaginym]

I don't believe Smaug is negatively affected by a colder environment (at least, there's no intel that he's particularly bothered by snow). Normal ice would be fairly quickly destroyed by steel-melting flame of any caliber.

& he's nothing like a cold-blooded reptile, which become sluggish in cold?

Which moves of the Pokemon afford 10km range? Depending on what they are, Smaug would probably just play ranged, since its actually an option here and is entirely in-character.

I'm unsure. Been a while since the last discussion of Pokemon range, & I'm unsure what we scale Amaura to.
The range might be based on weather manipulation. (Although, Amaura gets Icy Wind, Powder Snow, & Blizzard so it gets very weather-like moves.)
Also, technically, Amaura has some kind of levitation, due to getting Magnet Rise as an Egg Move, absurd as that might sound.

Is Smaug normally the type to put distance between himself & a foe?

This is a case of lore bypassing typing honestly, since it's specifically Amaura's weakness. And while he wouldn't of course die immediately from environmental heat, it still is susceptible to heat, and fire is just the same enhanced to a million (hyperbole)

That does seem plausible since it's at least implied it's negatively affected by Alola's hot weather.

About the temperature war, it pretty much depends on how we handle pkmn's, because technically the classic "freezing a character whole" requires insane temperatures.
But honestly Amaura would have to start with Blizzard and just spam it, but Smaug's breath is still bigger and stronger.

If any freezing would be sufficient, why say Blizzard spam would be required? Just because range & AP?
Also, what of range shape? Powder Snow, Icy Wind, etc. might not be exactly cone-shaped.

Pkmns also scale to that value.
Aurora Veil must be set up, and while useful, it could cost Amaura some free damage or not be its starting move.

I went over Amaura's moves & Pokedex entries in my 1st post in this thread.

Ultra Sun	It lived in cold areas in ancient times. It's said that when Amaura whinnies, auroras appear in the night sky.

Nonetheless, if Amaura is most known for summoning Auroras when whinnying, then it seems plausible it'd go for Aurora moves.

It'd be even more fitting to lead with Aurora Veil since Hail/Snow would've just started.

 

[SamanPatou]

& he's nothing like a cold-blooded reptile, which become sluggish in cold?

We are talking about a giant dragon whose average body heat is enough to melt metal.

I'm unsure. Been a while since the last discussion of Pokemon range, & I'm unsure what we scale Amaura to.
The range might be based on weather manipulation. (Although, Amaura gets Icy Wind, Powder Snow, & Blizzard so it gets very weather-like moves.)
Also, technically, Amaura has some kind of levitation, due to getting Magnet Rise as an Egg Move, absurd as that might sound.

Honestly Pokemon moves should have different range, since they are pretty much like spells. Just because they can change the weather with some, it doesn't mean they can shoot fireballs or chuck rocks across the same distance.

Is Smaug normally the type to put distance between himself & a foe?

It likes to fly and breath fire on its victims, he's done it a couple times in the past and was about to do it at the end of The Hobbit.

If any freezing would be sufficient, why say Blizzard spam would be required? Just because range & AP?
Also, what of range shape? Powder Snow, Icy Wind, etc. might not be exactly cone-shaped.

I forgot powder snow also does that, and that he learns ice beam. But yeah, technically the cold of those might trump that, although iirc it's beyond calculable heat. Still, Smaug's fire would probably be much, much bigger anyway and would for sure have at least 3.5x impact force behind.

I went over Amaura's moves & Pokedex entries in my 1st post in this thread.

Ultra Sun	It lived in cold areas in ancient times. It's said that when Amaura whinnies, auroras appear in the night sky.

It'd be even more fitting to lead with Aurora Veil since Hail/Snow would've just started.

I'm not sure that triggering normal aurora is the same as an aurora veil, but even then, the move itself would still require that brif time of setup, while Smaug most likely breath fire the moment the battle starts.

 

[Imaginym]

We are talking about a giant dragon whose average body heat is enough to melt metal.

Producing fire, in theory, often requires some form of combustion. (& Smaug's internal temperature is probably hotter than his already high external temperature.)
But yes, dragon =/= reptile, despite how similar they are often considered to be.

It likes to fly and breath fire on its victims, he's done it a couple times in the past and was about to do it at the end of The Hobbit.


I forgot powder snow also does that, and that he learns ice beam.

....I mean, I listed all the Ice-type moves & potential Ice-type moves Amaura can learn in my first reply to this thread, even with their descriptions & such.

On the topic of Amaura's Ice-type moves, Icy Wind is also a guaranteed Speed drop every time it hits. If we're going by in-game stat stages, it goes....

-1: 66.66~% (2/3)
-2: 50% (2/4)
-3: 40% (2/5)
-4: 33.33~% (2/6)
-5: 28.57% (2/7)
-6: 25% (2/8)

Diminishing returns, but even landing 1 could be quite potent.

I wonder how impactful Freeze-Dry would be. Does Smaug even have any internal liquids that aren't boiling?

But yeah, technically the cold of those might trump that, although iirc it's beyond calculable heat. Still, Smaug's fire would probably be much, much bigger anyway and would for sure have at least 3.5x impact force behind.

In theory, Mirror Coat could be powerful....
But its also an Egg Move & dubiously IC. Maybe with giving credit to the Above Average in Battle Intelligence rating Amaura gets.

I'm not sure that triggering normal aurora is the same as an aurora veil, but even then, the move itself would still require that brif time of setup, while Smaug most likely breath fire the moment the battle starts.

I mean, if they both open with it, which happens first? The Aurora Veil going up or the cone/pillar of fire reaching Amaura?
& if it happens AFTER the first fire breath, some damage being halved is better than none of it being halved. (Also, Amaura gets Light Screen by Level Up, which would serve a similar purpose here.)

 

[Armorchompy]

Hail damages combatants that are not Ice-type. Before Gen 5, Hail lasted indefinitely. As of Gen 5, it lasted 5 turns.
As of Gen 9, Hail is replaced by Snow, which, instead of dealing damage, increases the Defense of Ice-types by 50%.

I'm not sure if we make this distinction but Smaug's fire would definitely count as "Special", rather than Physical.

So how does Snow Warning work here?
For that matter, Pokemon Legends: Arceus has the Freeze status replaced with Frostbite. Quote Bulbapedia:
"Frostbite inflicts damage equal to 1/16 of the target's maximum HP every turn, and it reduces damage dealt by its special moves during this time. When it is snowing, moves that may inflict frostbite are more likely to do so. Ice-type Pokémon cannot get frostbite."
What about that?

While Smaug would probably take damage from this (If something like Magcargo can, body heat isn't a factor), he could coat himself in flames to remove it, that does work in Pokemon itself.

Nonetheless, if Amaura is most known for summoning Auroras when whinnying, then it seems plausible it'd go for Aurora moves.
Absurdly, it only gets Aurora Veil by breeding, but still, it seems IC.
Aurora Veil halves physical & special damage the user & its allies receive for 5 turns, but can only be initiated during Hail/Snow.

This is a wild Amaura so don't think it'd have that

Oh, & it gets Electric-type moves, presumably because aurora borealis electricity science stuff:
Thunder Wave: "The user launches a weak jolt of electricity that paralyzes the target." (This is a level-up move for Amaura, surprisingly.)

That is handy but it can't exist at the same time as Frostbite.

Anyone know the AP situation for Amaura?

It's in the OP, pretty rough gap for it to overcome.

I can't see Amaura taking this, to be honest. Something like Paralysis can delay Smaug a lot but ultimately he has way too much AOE for Amaura to avoid at all, and he can just kinda keep shooting fire and win. Even if some stray attacks land I don't see Amaura being able to finish him off before it dies.

 

[Imaginym]

While Smaug would probably take damage from this (If something like Magcargo can, body heat isn't a factor), he could coat himself in flames to remove it, that does work in Pokemon itself.

Good point.

This is a wild Amaura so don't think it'd have that

Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire demonstrated Wild Pokemon can be found which know Egg Moves.

That is handy but it can't exist at the same time as Frostbite.

Basis?

I can't see Amaura taking this, to be honest. Something like Paralysis can delay Smaug a lot but ultimately he has way too much AOE for Amaura to avoid at all, and he can just kinda keep shooting fire and win. Even if some stray attacks land I don't see Amaura being able to finish him off before it dies.

Is Smaug's fire, like, triangle-shaped in area of effect?

In theory, Speed drops from something like Icy Wind (Or, as you said, Paralysis.) &/or damage halving via Aurora Veil might help.
Also, you say "stray attacks" but its Ice-type moves are likely wide range themselves when considering stuff like Icy Wind, Powder Snow, Blizzard (To say nothing of Discharge.), & Smaug isn't exactly a small target. (& if you say flight again, I say Magnet Rise again.)

But yes, it seems uphill at best. Tragic that the replacement for Smaug's opponent was a character that canonically has issues with high temperatures.
& also because I think it would be hilarious for the Ur example of a dragon to be defeated by the Pokemon people insult by saying it looks like a Neopet shooting rainbow lasers at him. Yes, I know, that's kinda biased of me. Shameful, I know.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As far as I am aware, dragons often reside in the colder mountain regions of Middle Earth (including Smaug, and though I don't recall anything about the Misty Mountains specifically having frozen tips, that has been the case in some presentations).

I seriously doubt that the presence of snow is going to be a significant consideration as a result. Even if he were akin to typical lizards, I doubt it would have such a profound and immediate effect to be in snowy weather.

 

[Armorchompy]

Basis?

The mechanics of the game? You can't apply two statuses at once.

In theory, Speed drops from something like Icy Wind (Or, as you said, Paralysis.) &/or damage halving via Aurora Veil might help.
Also, you say "stray attacks" but its Ice-type moves are likely wide range themselves when considering stuff like Icy Wind, Powder Snow, Blizzard (To say nothing of Discharge.), & Smaug isn't exactly a small target. (& if you say flight again, I say Magnet Rise again.)

Magnet Rise takes a turn and probably doesn't afford too much mobility, Smaug's wiping out city blocks with his fire, I just don't see Amaura dodging that.

As far as I am aware, dragons often reside in the colder mountain regions of Middle Earth (including Smaug, and though I don't recall anything about the Misty Mountains specifically having frozen tips, that has been the case in some presentations).

I seriously doubt that the presence of snow is going to be a significant consideration as a result. Even if he were akin to typical lizards, I doubt it would have such a profound and immediate effect to be in snowy weather.

It's not "regular" frostbite, it's a DoT status effect to basically everything that's not straight-up ice element-related. Even Pokémon that do live in very cold environments and/or have abilities that straight-up reduce ice damage. The snow wouldn't have any effect on Smaug though, it just boosts Amaura's defense.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's not "regular" frostbite, it's a DoT status effect to basically everything that's not straight-up ice element-related. Even Pokémon that do live in very cold environments and/or have abilities that straight-up reduce ice damage. The snow wouldn't have any effect on Smaug though, it just boosts Amaura's defense.

I'm vaguely aware of Pokemon abilities, Imaginym just seemed to be still arguing the point that it being cold weather in general would negatively impact Smaug aside from game mechanics, and I don't think that's the case.

 

[Imaginym]

I'm vaguely aware of Pokemon abilities, Imaginym just seemed to be still arguing the point that it being cold weather in general would negatively impact Smaug aside from game mechanics, and I don't think that's the case.

I feel I should clarify that I'm currently of the opinion that cold weather wouldn't significantly impact Smaug, thanks to the recent debate.

 

[SamanPatou]

I wonder how impactful Freeze-Dry would be. Does Smaug even have any internal liquids that aren't boiling?

I don't think just having body liquids would work, otherwise it would be super effective on all organic Pokemon.

I mean, if they both open with it, which happens first? The Aurora Veil going up or the cone/pillar of fire reaching Amaura?
& if it happens AFTER the first fire breath, some damage being halved is better than none of it being halved. (Also, Amaura gets Light Screen by Level Up, which would serve a similar purpose herehere

I was referring more to the moment of set up that it takes, leaving Amaura vulnerable to the first breath attack. While damage would be reduced, it's still free damage.

About Magnet Rise, it's more like semi-levitation, rather than true flight.

I still think that Smaug having a gigantic fire breath, which is stronger than Amaura and more effective, would still grant him the victory despite some potential stat tomfoolery and boons.

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Might be a good idea to start voting Smaug, Amarura doesn't have any wincons here, just status cheese and that's inconsistent at best.

Smaug FRA

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think it's no wincons.

 

[Imaginym]

Might be a good idea to start voting Smaug, Amarura doesn't have any wincons here, just status cheese and that's inconsistent at best.

Eh, Icy Wind Speed Drops could let it outpace Smaug, in theory, & Mirror Coat could do a ton of damage to Smaug.

As said, it doesn't COMPLETELY lack win conditions.

 

[SamanPatou]

Yeah, I don't think Amaura is really helpless, I just believe its chances are very little.
Anyway, I don't know if it was counter or not, but I vote Smaug.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think we're at four, myself counted

 

[Imaginym]

Yeah, I don't think Amaura is really helpless, I just believe its chances are very little.
Anyway, I don't know if it was counter or not, but I vote Smaug.

Likewise.

Smaug has the AP/Durability/Striking Strength advantage, likely an advantage in Intelligence, & 1 of his opening moves is an element Amaura does awfully with in lore.

So I'm voting Smaug.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Samsung FRA

 

[Armorchompy]

one to grace

 

[Spinoirr]

Dragon fra

 

[Armorchompy]

Grace