- 3,552
- 3,402
For the record this is probably going to be a slow process, since I not only already lost my original draft which covered information upto the Maiar, but also because my passion for this project wavers from time to time.
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That certainly sounds like a good idea.We can probably get the knowledgeable types in a group and discuss what works before the big CRT
No problem fam, take your time. I was also making very good progress on translating my LOTR RTs but a wiki bug prevented me from posting. I'm still a bit bummed by that.For the record this is probably going to be a slow process, since I not only already lost my original draft which covered information upto the Maiar, but also because my passion for this project wavers from time to time.
Well, maybe some of the above members are willing to help you out?
Thank you for helping out. This seems fine to add to me.I mentioned this before but I want to reiterate.
So, when the Valar saw Eä, they saw "wheels of fire" and "innumerable stars" the latter is self-explanatory whilst the former most likely in reference to Galaxies. It's said that it took many ages to create the universe, and Tolkien says this:
"The Valar had a command, great individually, almost complete as a united council, over the physical matter of Eä (the material universe)."
Crazy knowing that this is the kind of power they are implied to possess despite the entire story playing out on earth, and whilst it seems small with this context, the Silmarillion does address this saying that the actions on Arda are just as important as the shaping of Eä.
From what I remember, parts of it were earlier versions of what was used in the Silmarillion, etc, whilst other parts explained details around the era.Isn't Morgoth's Ring an earlier version of what Tolkien was writing?
Oct. 6. Frodo reaches Weathertop observed by the Nazgul. Aragorn sees [three Riders] coming back from a patrol of the Road west of Weathertop.Should Aragorn be stronger for chasing away the Nazgul? I know that Nazgul are listed at unknown but Glorfindel, an Elf that killed a Balrog and when he was reincarnated was almost as strong as a Maiar, said he couldn't beat them all together.
This could be a Likely far higher for Sauron since we have this and him supposedly being nigh equal to the Valar.After this things get a bit tricky, Sauron is stated to be stronger than Morgoth by the end of the First Age who is still implied to be strong enough that if the Valar tried wrestling him, it would destroy Arda. The Host vs. Him according to either HOME or Book of Lost rales (Idr which) resulted in only the destruction of Beleriend..
I'd say 7 would be a good number but idkOther Maiar aren't super well explored, but we know the Balrogs were able to defeat Ungoliant after she ate the trees.
Tom Bombadil could probably be Unknown, he's strong but he never does anything meanigful and we don't know who he is or where he actually stands in the scaling chain.Tom Bombadil is stronger than Sauron going by how he viewed the Ring, he most likely is around the Valar.
So they diminished over time like the Elves?If you believe the Valar were stronger when they just entered the universe than they would be above Ungoliant even after eating the trees, only pointing this out since an argument can be made for that.
Yeah Gil-Galad helped Elendil fight Sauron and Glorfindel killed a Balrog. I'd note this is ignoring the possibility that magic might not scale to physicals for the Legendarium (you need a few requirements for that such as characters amping themselves or being stated to use the same power sources for all their abilities)The strongest Elves seem to be around the Maiar for the most part such as Galadriel and Fingolfin.
Would Aragorn scale? He's powerful but aside from the Nazgul he doesn't have much solid scaling (I believe the Nazgul just fought Gandalf so they might be fatigued.Nazgul are supposed to be very powerful going by already mentioned statements, and there are Men such as Turin and the Men of Numenor who can hang with some of the strongest Elves such as Elendil, who fought alongside the elven king Gil-Galad, the dup giving Sauron a difficult fight. Aragorn is a direct descendant to Elendil and has Numenorean blood as well.
Regarding Tom Bombadil, putting him in a solid tier is awkward, because we know for a fact he will fall if Sauron regains the ring, albeit as the last to fall, but like you said, the Ring has no hold over him.Decided to do a rough tier list, I'm missing several characters but still enough to get a good idea of the verse scaling.
Eru
Melkor (Ainur)
Rest of Ainur
Ungoliant (Post trees devoured)
Melkor/Morgoth (Valar)
Manwë
Varda
Tulkas
Ulmo
Rest of Valar
After this things get a bit tricky, Sauron is stated to be stronger than Morgoth by the end of the First Age who is still implied to be strong enough that if the Valar tried wrestling him, it would destroy Arda. The Host vs. Him according to either HOME or Book of Lost rales (Idr which) resulted in only the destruction of Beleriend.
Other Maiar aren't super well explored, but we know the Balrogs were able to defeat Ungoliant after she ate the trees. Not sure what you guys think about the debate whether there should be thousands of Balrogs or only 7 max since Tolkien himself stated that number. Either way, there is a number to quantify them. The strongest Maia are nigh equal to the Valar as well, I would say Ossë, Sauron, and Eönwë seem to be portrayed as the strongest.
Tom Bombadil is stronger than Sauron going by how he viewed the Ring, he most likely is around the Valar.
If you believe the Valar were stronger when they just entered the universe than they would be above Ungoliant even after eating the trees, only pointing this out since an argument can be made for that.
The strongest Elves seem to be around the Maiar for the most part such as Galadriel and Fingolfin.
Nazgul are supposed to be very powerful going by already mentioned statements, and there are Men such as Turin and the Men of Numenor who can hang with some of the strongest Elves such as Elendil, who fought alongside the elven king Gil-Galad, the dup giving Sauron a difficult fight. Aragorn is a direct descendant to Elendil and has Numenorean blood as well.
I believe the old possibly 2C rating reasoning for Morgoth came from the fact he was immeasurably superior to a vast number of low 2Cs and High 3As. If that's still accepted, Eru could get the same, although it does sound a bit iffy in my personal opinion.Well, "At least Low 2-C" might work, since we do not have almost any information about the upper boundaries of his power in a mathematical sense.
Imagine Tolkien wrote "lmao my boi Eru is totally boundless and above a bajillion dimensions"While Eru will never have the justification for Tier 0, he will always be so in my heart.
"At least Low 2-C" is likely enough.I believe the old possibly 2C rating reasoning for Morgoth came from the fact he was immeasurably superior to a vast number of low 2Cs and High 3As. If that's still accepted, Eru could get the same, although it does sound a bit iffy in my personal opinion.