Lord of the Rings general revision thread: Return of the Thread

[Tyranno223]

I reallllllly don't like the Valar tbh. Bunch of clowns besides a few.

Edit: Speaking of, can't wait for the big revisions to be done so the pages for all of the Ainur can get spruced up. Already have images and such in mind lol

Probably more of a discussion thread post ngl.

Tbf, I can get behind some Valar ribbing (there are some genuine dumb moves), but for the most part I like the dudes. Blame Morgoth for everything. Dude just couldn't be reasonable for more than 2 seconds.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Probably more of a discussion thread post ngl.

Tbf, I can get behind some Valar ribbing (there are some genuine dumb moves), but for the most part I like the dudes. Blame Morgoth for everything. Dude just couldn't be reasonable for more than 2 seconds.

Just realized this was the revision thread oops. Also quite true honestly.

 

[Tyranno223]

Bumpity.

 

[Tyranno223]

Regular bump

 

[Tyranno223]

A bump.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

What needs further evaluation?

 

[Tyranno223]

What needs further evaluation?

The Elven draft still needs staff evaluation.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Gotcha. Well, if there's anything else I can do to help, let me know!

 

[Tyranno223]

Gotcha. Well, if there's anything else I can do to help, let me know!

Probably will need your help a lot for an eventual scaling revision I want to do again. Stuff like Gandalf the White and stuff bug me.

But in the meantime, anything you can find on the Elves, Nazgul, Istari, etc for abilities would be great on the discussion thread!

Thanks!

 

[Hsharpe]

Quick question, can the Ainur read minds and memories?

 

[Tyranno223]

Quick question, can the Ainur read minds and memories?

Yeah, pretty sure it's in the ability page.

 

[Antvasima]

Right, new big revision coming up! This is essentially a physiology page for the Elves + their general magics.

Elven Draft

vsbattles.fandom.com

Some miscellaneous and less miscellaneous stuff in addition:

• Songs of Power are shared between Ainur and Elves. The former already have a summaries version on page so I'll link it that section to the Elven page for the rest of the abilities.
• Aragorn got a "possibly" resistance to Fear Manipulation since it was unsure if the Army of the Dead gave off supernatural fear. But as noted in the draft page, I found a statement that ghosts and wraiths give off a supernatural fear. Also he faces the Nazgul who have it on page (which will be revised too one day, I swear).
• As noted in the "limited" possession section, when a Houseless Elf spirit tries to take any living body, the soul inside the body can fight back and even win. Thus all characters in-verse should receive a resistance to possession and an additional to their resistance to soul manipulation since they can fight and struggle against the soul to push them back out.
  • Oh, and Sauron should solidly be able to possess rather than "possibly" as well since it's confirmed spirits can possess bodies.
• Empathic Manipulation should be layered. Elves can resist their own EM but beings with the Light of Aman can EM them. Beings with the Light of Aman can also resist their own EM, but Songs of Power can EM them. Notably the Ainur resist their own EM from Songs of Power, although exceptional cases such as Lúthien can EM them.

This seems fine to me.

Which other staff members should I notify about this?

 

[Tyranno223]

This seems fine to me.

Which other staff members should I notify about this?

DDM, Bambu, and Armor are the regulars here.

Currently, I'm admittedly a bit occupied over here right now.

Tolkien Tier High 1-A+ and 0 Proposal

Many thanks to Ultima for helping me with this project! This is a cosmology expansion for Tolkien's Legendarium that proposes Eru as tier 0 and the Ainur in their "Prior to entering Eä" key as High 1-A+...

vsbattles.com

Still trying to get one last vote for it to enter grace after DDM and Ultima agreed.

Edit: Oh right, sorry forgot to say thanks for the response!

 

[Antvasima]

Right, new big revision coming up! This is essentially a physiology page for the Elves + their general magics.

Elven Draft

vsbattles.fandom.com

Some miscellaneous and less miscellaneous stuff in addition:

• Songs of Power are shared between Ainur and Elves. The former already have a summaries version on page so I'll link it that section to the Elven page for the rest of the abilities.
• Aragorn got a "possibly" resistance to Fear Manipulation since it was unsure if the Army of the Dead gave off supernatural fear. But as noted in the draft page, I found a statement that ghosts and wraiths give off a supernatural fear. Also he faces the Nazgul who have it on page (which will be revised too one day, I swear).
• As noted in the "limited" possession section, when a Houseless Elf spirit tries to take any living body, the soul inside the body can fight back and even win. Thus all characters in-verse should receive a resistance to possession and an additional to their resistance to soul manipulation since they can fight and struggle against the soul to push them back out.
  • Oh, and Sauron should solidly be able to possess rather than "possibly" as well since it's confirmed spirits can possess bodies.
• Empathic Manipulation should be layered. Elves can resist their own EM but beings with the Light of Aman can EM them. Beings with the Light of Aman can also resist their own EM, but Songs of Power can EM them. Notably the Ainur resist their own EM from Songs of Power, although exceptional cases such as Lúthien can EM them.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Armorchompy @Mr. Bambu

What do you think about this?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Tier 0 Eru / High 1-A+ Ainur got accepted everyone !

Ceeeeelebrate good times COME ON !

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Armorchompy @Mr. Bambu

What do you think about this?

Looks alright to me, though I'm unsure if that's actually Type 1 Immortality if they still physically age, Types 4, limited 5, and 8 are good though.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

W to @Tyranno223

 

[Tyranno223]

Looks alright to me, though I'm unsure if that's actually Type 1 Immortality if they still physically age, Types 4, limited 5, and 8 are good though.

Thanks for the response!

It's a weird type of physical aging.

They can never die from it (and it doesn't even happen in Valinor) but they can weaken after entering a mature stage. Albeit the weakening doesn't seem to be overly drastic.

 

[Tyranno223]

Ah, I forgot to mention this in the "stuff" bulletpoints, but Elves can survrive for centuries without sleep or food.

Thingol being in a trance staring at Melian for at least 200 (possibly over 3000 depending on interpretations) years. Maedhros also surving being chained to a rock for over 3 decades.

This would be added to their superhuman stamina justification.

It's mentioned in the imgur posts and in the draft. I'll edit the quotes to the original post once I'm at my laptop.

Edit: Added it in and linked the relevant imgur post as proof.

 

[Tyranno223]

I really have been neglecting this thread. I suppose grace is passed a while back so this should be fine to add when I get time. Personally I would like to wait for some extra evaluation tho.

Looks alright to me, though I'm unsure if that's actually Type 1 Immortality if they still physically age, Types 4, limited 5, and 8 are good though.

Was my response here satisfactory?

Thanks for the response!

It's a weird type of physical aging.

They can never die from it (and it doesn't even happen in Valinor) but they can weaken after entering a mature stage. Albeit the weakening doesn't seem to be overly drastic.

Edit: Perhaps limited immortality type 1?

 

[Antvasima]

I really have been neglecting this thread. I suppose grace is passed a while back so this should be fine to add when I get time. Personally I would like to wait for some extra evaluation tho.

Was my response here satisfactory?

@Armorchompy

Your input would also be appreciated here.

 

[Tyranno223]

Well since no further input seems to be coming, I suppose I'll just apply the page as is when I get free time.

Thanks to all for helping out!

Since the thread's getting long again, I'll ask for this to be closed when it comes time for the next major revision and have that in a new thread instead.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Well since no further input seems to be coming, I suppose I'll just apply the page as is when I get free time.

Thanks to all for helping out!

Since the thread's getting long again, I'll ask for this to be closed when it comes time for the next major revision and have that in a new thread instead.

Thanks for all of your work, appreciate it

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Hsharpe]

Small ability proposal for the Witch-King. Literally just two abilities.

The two abilities I see the Witch-king getting are Ice Manipulation and Weather Manipulation. Let me explain.

According to the men of Lossoth, the Witch-king is capable of making frost and thaw at will:
“For a while Arvedui hid in the tunnels of the old dwarf-mines near the far end of the Mountains, but he was driven at last by hunger to seek the help of the Lossoth, the Snowmen of For-ochel. Some of these he found in camp by the seashore; but they did not help the king willingly, for he had nothing to offer them, save a few jewels which they did not value; and they were afraid of the Witch-king, who (they said) could make frost or thaw at his will.” - The Return of the King, Appendix A, I The Númenorean Kings, (iii) Eriador, Arnor, and the Heirs of Isildur

This is confirmed yet again by the men of Lossoth, where the Witch-king sent a storm that apparently sunk:
“But the Snowmen were uneasy: for they said that they smelled danger in the wind. And the chief of the Lossoth said to Arvedui: ‘‘Do not mount on this sea-monster! If they have them, let the seamen bring us food and other things that we need, and you may stay here till the Witch-king goes home. For in summer his power wanes; but now his breath is deadly, and his cold arm is long. But Arvedui did not take his council [...] Yet the counsel of the Lossoth was good, by chance or by foresight; for the ship had not reached the open sea when a great storm of wind arose, and came with blinding snow out of the North; and it drove the ship back upon the ice and piled ice up against it. Even the mariners of Círdan were helpless, and in the night the ice crushed the hull, and ship foundered. So perished Arvedui Last-king, and with him the palantíri were buried in the sea.’’ - The Return of the King: Appendix A

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah that seems good

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I think that it seems uncontroversial to add.