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Lord of the Rings revisions

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Antvasima said:
Well, it is a borderline case in terms of if we are supposed to do that or not
Click to expand...
I mean you agree with it, as does DDM. Just make Eru Low 1-C, you don't need my sign off for it.

But fine, sure, I agree with Low 1-C Eru if it makes the thread go faster.
 
Thank you. I think that it can be applied now then.

It is probably best to add a quite long explanation section with evidence for Eru's new Low 1-C statistics to his page.

Would you be willing to perform the edits, @Tyranno223 ?
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you. I think that it can be applied now then.

It is probably best to add a quite long explanation section with evidence for Eru's new Low 1-C statistics to his page.

Would you be willing to perform the edits, @Tyranno223 ?
Click to expand...
Tyranno223 said:
Sure, although I wouldn't mind some advice for what specifically to list
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Well, all of the most solid evidence for a reality > fiction transcendence over the entire LotR cosmology, combined with the full scale of it, basically.

@Elizhaa @Pain_to12 @DarkDragonMedeus @Dread

Are you willing to help out with advice and instructions here please?
 
Not sure if I'm the most skilled at explaining the instructions, may be better if others take care of it.
 
AP justification currently:
Attack Potency: At least Universe level+, likely far higher (Stronger than all of the Ainur combined, and created them with just his thoughts. Stated that Arda - the Universe in which Lord of the Rings takes place in - was "but a small realm in the halls of Eä, whose life is Time, which flows ever from the first note to the last chord of Eru." Eä is itself called "the little kingdom.")
Click to expand...
AP justification suggestion:
Attack Potency: (previous text) | Low Complex Multiverse level (Eru holds and sustains the entire universe in his thoughts/mind, which is confirmed to be a space-time continuum, and sees it on the same level as fiction. He exists in a higher state of reality, and is repeatedly described as the author of the story)
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Note: I won't add any religious context, or any scans, as it is not allowed.

Since I did not get any links, therefore only “text scans”, I will add which scans need to be linked. The scans need to be uploaded to Imgur.

"...on a brief episode in History, and on a small part of our Middle-earth, surrounded by the glimmer of limitless extensions in time and space." - Letter 328

"The Valar entered into Eä and Time..." - Nature of Middle-Earth: OSANWE-KENTA

"...the Elves would have said, to have passed with free will out of the physical world and time (the circles of the world)" - Nature of Middle-Earth: NOTES ON ÓRË

"When Eru gave being to this design, in general and particular, and it became Eä, unfolding in Time, He set in motion life and growth, or those processes which would in time lead to this. But when he permitted the Valar to descend into Time, to carry out in Eä (or reality)..." - Nature of Middle-Earth: Powers of the Valar
"No, Frodo 'failed'. It is possible that once the ring was destroyed he had little recollection of the last scene. But one must face the fact: the power of Evil in the world is not finally resistible by incarnate creatures, however 'good'; and the Writer of the Story is not one of us." - Letter 191

"But the One retains all ultimate authority, and (or so it seems as viewed in serial time) reserves the right to intrude the finger of God into the story: that is to produce realities which could not be deduced even from a complete knowledge of the previous past, but which being real become part of the effective past for all subsequent time (a possible definition of a 'miracle')." - Letter 181


"The Valar had no real answer to this monstrous rebellion — for the Children of God were not under their ultimate jurisdiction: they were not allowed to destroy them, or coerce them with any 'divine' display of the powers they held over the physical world. They appealed to God..."
+
"So while God (Eru) was a datum of good*" - Letter 156
"But since Eru was not bound by the Theme, nor by the Ainulindalë (as made by the Ainur), it would be rash to assert that He is or will be bound by Eä realized; since He is outside Eä but holds the whole of Eä in thought (by which it coheres)." - Nature of Middle-Earth: The Primal Impulse.

"“He [Eru] is outside Eä but holds the whole of Eä in thought (by which it coheres).”" - Nature of Middle-Earth: METAPHYSICAL AND THEOLOGICAL THEMES

Note: This particular extract had this commentary on the matter above. The below text isn't Tolkien's words, but rather an exploration of Catholic thought, aka the doctrine Tolkien followed. His Legendarium was a fundamentally Christian work, with Letter 142 making this clear - "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."

"In Catholic metaphysics, the existence of the material universe and all that is in it, is contingent: both in the sense that it does not exist by necessity but rather by a gratuitous act of Divine creation, and in the sense that its continued existence, in all its parts down to the most minute particle, and at all moments, is due to God’s continuous (from a temporal view) willing of its existence. Its Catholic formulation (as so much else of Catholic metaphysics) is due to St. Thomas Aquinas, who greatly elaborated and expanded upon the contingency of existence. Tolkien’s particular statement here, that the whole of material and temporal existence (Eä, “the World that Is”) “coheres” (< Latin co-haerere, literally ‘stick together’) in Eru’s thought, also clearly echoes Scripture, in particular Col. 1:17: “He [Christ] is before all things, and in Him all things hold together”. The ongoing contingency of existence is also reflected in Acts 17:28, where St. Paul, quoting (ultimately) Epimenides (who however had Zeus in mind), says to the gathered Athenians: “For ‘In him we live and move and have our being,’ as even some of your poets have said”."

"And at last the Vision was renewed, but it was not now remote, for he was himself within it, and yet he saw that all was upheld by the hand of Ilúvatar..." - The Silmarillion: OF AULË AND YAVANNA
 
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Thedent said:
Are there additional abilities from Ilúvatar? Examples like Plot manipulation because he is a writer.
Click to expand...
Nope, we no longer add plot manipulation to authors as this will end up as NLF. If there are no feats for such that and especially evidence for metafictional elements, we don't give them the feat.
 
Dread said:
AP justification currently:

AP justification suggestion:

Note: I won't add any religious context, or any scans, as it is not allowed.

Since I did not get any links, therefore only “text scans”, I will add which scans need to be linked. The scans need to be uploaded to Imgur.

"...on a brief episode in History, and on a small part of our Middle-earth, surrounded by the glimmer of limitless extensions in time and space." - Letter 328

"The Valar entered into Eä and Time..." - Nature of Middle-Earth: OSANWE-KENTA

"...the Elves would have said, to have passed with free will out of the physical world and time (the circles of the world)" - Nature of Middle-Earth: NOTES ON ÓRË

"When Eru gave being to this design, in general and particular, and it became Eä, unfolding in Time, He set in motion life and growth, or those processes which would in time lead to this. But when he permitted the Valar to descend into Time, to carry out in Eä (or reality)..." - Nature of Middle-Earth: Powers of the Valar
"No, Frodo 'failed'. It is possible that once the ring was destroyed he had little recollection of the last scene. But one must face the fact: the power of Evil in the world is not finally resistible by incarnate creatures, however 'good'; and the Writer of the Story is not one of us." - Letter 191

"But the One retains all ultimate authority, and (or so it seems as viewed in serial time) reserves the right to intrude the finger of God into the story: that is to produce realities which could not be deduced even from a complete knowledge of the previous past, but which being real become part of the effective past for all subsequent time (a possible definition of a 'miracle')." - Letter 181


"The Valar had no real answer to this monstrous rebellion — for the Children of God were not under their ultimate jurisdiction: they were not allowed to destroy them, or coerce them with any 'divine' display of the powers they held over the physical world. They appealed to God..."
+
"So while God (Eru) was a datum of good*" - Letter 156
"But since Eru was not bound by the Theme, nor by the Ainulindalë (as made by the Ainur), it would be rash to assert that He is or will be bound by Eä realized; since He is outside Eä but holds the whole of Eä in thought (by which it coheres)." - Nature of Middle-Earth: The Primal Impulse.

"“He [Eru] is outside Eä but holds the whole of Eä in thought (by which it coheres).”" - Nature of Middle-Earth: METAPHYSICAL AND THEOLOGICAL THEMES

Note: This particular extract had this commentary on the matter above. The below text isn't Tolkien's words, but rather an exploration of Catholic thought, aka the doctrine Tolkien followed. His Legendarium was a fundamentally Christian work, with Letter 142 making this clear - "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."

"In Catholic metaphysics, the existence of the material universe and all that is in it, is contingent: both in the sense that it does not exist by necessity but rather by a gratuitous act of Divine creation, and in the sense that its continued existence, in all its parts down to the most minute particle, and at all moments, is due to God’s continuous (from a temporal view) willing of its existence. Its Catholic formulation (as so much else of Catholic metaphysics) is due to St. Thomas Aquinas, who greatly elaborated and expanded upon the contingency of existence. Tolkien’s particular statement here, that the whole of material and temporal existence (Eä, “the World that Is”) “coheres” (< Latin co-haerere, literally ‘stick together’) in Eru’s thought, also clearly echoes Scripture, in particular Col. 1:17: “He [Christ] is before all things, and in Him all things hold together”. The ongoing contingency of existence is also reflected in Acts 17:28, where St. Paul, quoting (ultimately) Epimenides (who however had Zeus in mind), says to the gathered Athenians: “For ‘In him we live and move and have our being,’ as even some of your poets have said”."

"And at last the Vision was renewed, but it was not now remote, for he was himself within it, and yet he saw that all was upheld by the hand of Ilúvatar..." - The Silmarillion: OF AULË AND YAVANNA
Click to expand...
I'll take care of the scans, although it'll need to be in a few days, as I'm moving house the after tomorrow. Thanks for your help.
 

Letter 192

Letter 192 is a letter written by J.R.R. Tolkien and published in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.
tolkiengateway.net tolkiengateway.net
maybe this can make Eru have Plot Manipulation? Btw It is Eru and you can see his profile on the Tolkien gateway.
 
We are waiting for Tyranno223 to get enough free time to handle the issue.
 
I am not sure.

Do we already have other accepted calculations for that feat? If so, you need to start a new discussion thread in our calc group forum which links to all of the accepted calculation blogs for the feat in question, and then let our calc group members decide which one that seems most reliable to use.
 
Tyranno223 said:
Maaf, tapi saya masih pindah rumah jadi saya belum bisa mengerjakan pemindaian yang diperlukan atau perubahan pada halaman Eru secara langsung.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should help Tyrano223, does Antvasima want to help change Eru's profile more quickly?
 
Last edited:
Tyranno223 said:
I'm sorry but I'm still moving house so I haven't been able to work on the required scans or the changes to Eru's page outright.
Click to expand...
No problem. Tell us here when you are ready please.
Thedent said:
Maybe we should help Tyrano223, does Antvasima want to help change Eru's profile more quickly?
Click to expand...
No, it is better to handle it properly instead.
 
Thank you. Perhaps the two of you can collaborate then.

Should I unlock Eru's VSBW profile page for you to edit?
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you. Perhaps the two of you can collaborate then.

Should I unlock Eru's VSBW profile page for you to edit?
Click to expand...
I think it's best to wait till the scans are done. At least depending on how the scans need to be used.

If they don't need to be on the page itself, then I can do the edits today.
 
The scans should be added regardless if it is fast or not. References addition are no longer optional.
You need to link each scan to their reference. Therefore, I can't help much if I don't get them as links or references, all I have is “written scan”, won't help much
 
Yes, references and scans are likely both necessary here.
 
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