- 3,468
- 3,316
Sorry, I've been very sick for over a week. I've begun recovering, but I'll likely be unable to participate on here for a bit.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Sorry, I've been very sick for over a week. I've begun recovering, but I'll likely be unable to participate on here for a bit.
More or less, although I'm now being swamped in assessments.
Since there's not really been much other input on the Nigh-Valar debate, shall we compromise with "At Most"? It'd be a good half way in my opion.Anyway, it has been a good talk, and however we end up deciding to apply the changes, I guess we each made our points to the best of our opinions and understanding. That's actually what I like the most about the Legendarium, the way it's open to interpretation.
I'll ahead with that then, thanks.Well, I guess an "At most" could be fine.
I've personally been against adding him to the Nigh-Valar category for a time. In fact I'm personally in favour of reducing the list to 5.Will Sauron benefit from the "At most" key though? It feels wrong to leave him out, and since it's "At most" I guess it wouldn't really scale to the elves who go around fighting him.
That's definitely fine.Perhaps I'll just put him at "Far Higher" when enraged, since he is still beaten within a few hits.
Will do that then when I get around to it.That's definitely fine.
I don't have too much to comment on this yet (again, exam season means I can't contribute much beyond page changes and random looks into discussion threads) but I had some time to look at the cosmology areas of NOME, but Tolkien's notes do seem to mix science and mythology in this regard. For instance, the Elves differentiated between "wayward" stars and "far-stars" (fixed stars).I mentioned this a while back but Tolkien intended for the flat earth stuff to be an in-universe creation myth by the men of Númenor, later on Tolkien intended to make his lore "scientifically" accurate I mean that in the loosest terms, such as the Earth being round from the start.
I don't think that stuff was really fleshed out, though. I do know Arien still might have control of the Sun which is in this version exactly our Sun, so this might make Maia on the level of Arien at least star level.
@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Moonshadow137 @TheMerchant66I don't have too much to comment on this yet (again, exam season means I can't contribute much beyond page changes and random looks into discussion threads) but I had some time to look at the cosmology areas of NOME, but Tolkien's notes do seem to mix science and mythology in this regard. For instance, the Elves differentiated between "wayward" stars and "far-stars" (fixed stars).
The former are "called companions of the Sun and though [of as] quite small heavenly bodies - derived from the Sun". These are the planets in our Solar System, with the book outright saying "Certain stars (no doubt those we call planets) and among them especially Venus...".
The Elves (before first becoming acquainted the Valar) are said to have "constructed a picture mytho-astronomical of the world" as their understanding of the universe, which the book says to be "in some respects far nearer to our recent knowledge and theory than might be expected..." with the High-elves in Valinor being "presumed, learnt far more the scientific truth (or what we now regard as the truth)." Moreover we have the stars and the moon being referred to as "light-giving" and the latter as "not a light-giver, but a reflector" by the Elves.
While there is clearly some elements of LOTR which are pure fantasy in regards to cosmology with evident contradictions arising that are not quite resolved (NOME itself points out Venus as being the same as the Star of Earendil, despite the latter being a ship) but it seems apparent that the universe itself is meant to be reflective of our own in areas which are not directly relevant, aka outside the solar system (which they have more details on, but I don't have the time to spare on that right now).
Seems legitThat seems to make sense to me.
@TheMerchant66 @Moonshadow137 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Dinamic8000 @Arceus0x
What do you think about this?
We could make a key for Young Glaurung, but I'm not sure how to rate him since we don't really have a rating for the average Noldor warrior of the first age.Regarding Glaurung (aka best villain in the Legendarium) I would suggest if we could add a tier in his profile to represent his young form, which was powerful enough to push a Noldor army, although quickly dismissed by Fingon and his mounted archers
Ancalagon it's a bit more complicated, he was considered the mightiest of the winged dragons, furthermore we could't compare him with Glaurung by this point (Although by the narrative of the Silmarilion tends to make Ancalagon like the final evolution of Morgoth's dragon experiment that dates back to Glaurung)
And of course there is Gandalf quote in The Fellowship of the Ring, the way that he cites Ancalagon really indicates that the big boy was the most powerful dragon
Not only that, Gandalf also cites that although the dragon's fire could't damage the One Ring they would probably melt the other rings of power, including the Three Rings of the elves made by Celebrimbor, maybe we could try to scale Smaug to that?
Sure I'll try doing that later.Thank you. You should preferably copy the entireties of the linked calculations (including the relevant images) to a blog post in our wiki, combined with providing a credits link to the original source and mentioning the original author, and then ask our calc group to evaluate it.
See here for further information:
Calculation Evaluations (New forum)
This thread is intended for users to link to new blog post calculations, to relay them to the community, and have them evaluated by the calculation group, without contacting the members individually. To evaluate important off-site calculations, preferably copy them to blog posts in this wiki...vsbattles.com
In the worst scenario i don't think that would be that a problem to just label it as Unknown, possibly xxxWe could make a key for Young Glaurung, but I'm not sure how to rate him since we don't really have a rating for the average Noldor warrior of the first age.
Smaug probably could destroy the Rings of Power as you said, but the Three were unique even compared to the Seven and the Nine due to being made by Celebrimbor's hand alone, meaning it might not be wise to assume Gandalf was referring to them. That being said we don't have a rating for the Rings either (the Nazgul get their power from Sauron by the War of the Ring and the Seven are never seen being used).
I believe someone had a look at Smaug's feats earlier in the thread, I'll have a look later.