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Lord of the Rings revisions

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Antvasima said:
What are the rationales for each yield?
Click to expand...
The low-end is the "minimum amount required to generate a quake of intensity between VII - VIII at a distance of 122.72 km from the epicenter..." according to the calc. Basically covering only the area of Lammoth, which is the area described as specifically being damaged by Morgoth's scream

Then Morgoth sent forth a terrible cry, that echoed in the mountains. Therefore that region was called Lammoth; for the echoes of his voice dwelt there ever after, so that any who cried aloud in that land awoke them, and all the waste between the hills and the sea was filled with a clamour as of voices in anguish. The cry of Morgoth in that hour was the greatest and most dreadful that was ever heard in the northern world; the mountains shook, and the earth trembled, and rocks were riven asunder.

The high-end assumes that the "rock-splitting phenomenon" caused by the power of Morgoth's screams remained constant. This is based on the text stating that Morgoth's cries extended as far as Angband, roughly 5x the low-end distance, being 569.92 km from the assumed epicentre.

"On the next page, it is made clear that Morgoth's cries carried further beyond the boundaries of Lammoth:"

Deep in forgotten places that cry was heard. Far beneath the ruined halls of Angband, in vaults to which the Valar in the haste of their assault had not descended, Balrogs lurked still, awaiting ever the return of their Lord...
Click to expand...
 
Hmm. Wouldn't it be better to use the (first) earthquake generating impact approach, but use it for a greater distance, in that case?
 
Antvasima said:
Hmm. Wouldn't it be better to use the (first) earthquake generating impact approach, but use it for a greater distance, in that case?
Click to expand...
I might be describing it or reading it poorly, but I believe that's what he's doing.

Same as before regarding the impact calculator, except replacing the effective quake distance of 122.72 km with 569.92 km and adjusting the factors to again obtain the minimum requirement for VII - VIII identification at that distance from the epicenter. This is the result.
 
Antvasima said:
I meant calculating it reaching to Lammoth and beyond.
Click to expand...
Well the first calc assumes the destructive force of the scream only covers the entire region of Lammoth (I forgot to specify that so I had to edit my comment) meaning roughly 122.72 km from the epicentre.

The second calc assumes the destructive force of the scream remained constant as far as Angband, a fortress roughly 569.92 km from the epicentre.

Regarding the calculation method, from what I read they are the same, with only the effective quake distance being switched out. However if they're not, you'll have to ask Therefir since he's the one who evaluated the calc.
 
Well, I think that if the scream was only said to have been heard at the greater distance, rather than destroying rocks there, I do not think that we can assume that it was just as powerful there.
 
Regarding Smaug's blog, will Mr Bambu be making remaking it, or am I free to go ahead and change him to Large Town level?
 
I can slap my own blog down, sure. You'd need another CGM to approve it.

Before I do that, though, would it be cool with all of you if I downgraded the magnitude by 1? The original NF calc, in my opinion, overestimated the effects slightly. I don't know if it would remain in High 7-C or go down to 7-C.
 
Thank you for helping out. 🙏

You should obviously select the option that you think produces the most reliable result.
 
Okay. Thank you very much for helping out. 🙏 🙂

@Tyranno223

Is that calculation still useful to scale any characters from?
 
Also, can somebody remind me of the other knowledgeable members who have helped out in this thread previously, so I can call for them, please?
 
Thank you for helping out. it is appreciated. 🙏

You can probably use the calculation in question to scale from then, Tyranno223.
 
Made the change to Smaug, although I noticed that his speed was scaled to the Balrogs for some reason, despite no comparison between the two (and he certainly does not scale to the Vigilot like Ancalagon, as he was still young during his first attack on Erebor in Third Age: 2770, many millenia after that battle). I've left it at Superhuman, as that was the travel speed for him in the previous edit.
 
Ohhh, this is something I can contribute to significantly. I'll come back to this in an instant, but I'll already say that Smaug Low 7-C does make sense, but he scales significantly above that - we just don't know by how much.

And I think I can calculate a speed feat for Smaug that would put him quite solidly into Subsonic.
 
Alright, so, here's my 2 cents on this.

First off, a few of Smaug's feats:
Now, this last feat is probably Smaug's best, but there is a thing that makes it even grater: The spells that protect the mountain are so powerful that steel pickaxes break when trying to breach it, causing no damage to the stone. And all of Smaug's damage was done despite of how the stone was empowered by magic.

As for speed, well, I can't do it atm, but Smaug flew all the way from the Misty Mountains to Esgaroth in a short timeframe, there was the feat of him quickly getting to the mountaintop I described above, is implied to be far faster than the ponies Bilbo and the dwarves used to travel to the Misty Mountain, and in general seems to cover vast swathes of land very, very quickly.
 
Been off for a bit but during that time I've read a lot of Tolkiens works. Not sure what the current discussion is atm so if I could be put up to speed that would be good.

For Dragons I wanna add that Fall of Gondolin states Dragon fire can melt stone and Iron and I believe also Children of Húrin. Both Glaurung and Smaug also desolated several miles of land but I feel those events might be too vague.

As for speed I'd argue Dragons are around the level of Maia since Gandalf considered Smaug a being of immense power in the Unfinished Tales, so most likelt they can scale from the Balrogs flying from Angband to Lammoth.

If not I assume they scale to the Fell Beasts winged speed which accordong to Gandalf can cross at least 200 leagues in a few hours, assuming 3 hours that's 230 MPH or 370 Kilometers per hour.

Dragon scales are harder than Iron according to Fall of Gondolin and Children of Húrin and also comparable to even Mithril in the Hobbit when Thorin showed the Mithril shirt to Bilbo
 
TheMerchant66 said:
Been off for a bit but during that time I've read a lot of Tolkiens works. Not sure what the current discussion is atm so if I could be put up to speed that would be good.

For Dragons I wanna add that Fall of Gondolin states Dragon fire can melt stone and Iron and I believe also Children of Húrin. Both Glaurung and Smaug also desolated several miles of land but I feel those events might be too vague.

As for speed I'd argue Dragons are around the level of Maia since Gandalf considered Smaug a being of immense power in the Unfinished Tales, so most likelt they can scale from the Balrogs flying from Angband to Lammoth.

If not I assume they scale to the Fell Beasts winged speed which accordong to Gandalf can cross at least 200 leagues in a few hours, assuming 3 hours that's 230 MPH or 370 Kilometers per hour.

Dragon scales are harder than Iron according to Fall of Gondolin and Children of Húrin and also comparable to even Mithril in the Hobbit when Thorin showed the Mithril shirt to Bilbo
Click to expand...
No problem, and thank you for helping out.

@Tyranno223 @Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer @Moonshadow137 @Edenstar @EliminatorVenom @Dinamic8000 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

What do you think about this?
 
Like i said, claims for books other than The Hobbit, LOTR or The Slimarilion need to taken with extremely caution, since they are basically alternative versions written up to 55 years before the canon one

Besides that the Mithril one definitely looks interesting, although i don't know if we can find anything to scale it durability besides blows from Orcs and claims that it was harder than tempered steel
 
Well if we are gonna try and go for highest canon then I'd reckon Tolkiens letters will be tbe highest followed by any other personal writings such as Round Earth cosmology.

Granted, I don't believe any of that necessarily contradicts with power scaling. Dragons are always portrayed as exceedingly powerful.


On Mithril sadly found out the dragon scale comparison is film only. Hobbit book does say it's "power and strength is triple steel" so at minimum 3x better than Tempered steel overall would be a good baseline and I assume it's not hust hardness but toughness and strength as well.

Dragon scales can withstand Elvish weaponry which can cut thru Troll flesh which is said to be harder than stone at the very least a full powered swing from Boromirs normal sword bounced off of a Troll and dent kt a bit.
 
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