Lies of P Scaling & Profile Creation Thread (Spoilers)

[Lukewoesal007]

Hello, all. This past December, during my holiday break, I played through Lies of P for the first time, and I managed to obtain all the achievements shortly thereafter. Now that the school year is coming to an end for me, I would like to start working on profiles for the verse, so I have created this thread to discuss the scaling and logistics behind creating the profile. Here is a tentative list of various feats, which I will keep updated, as the thread continues.

Attack Potency:
-Parade Master destroys a wooden set.
-Fuoco destroys an industrial tube.
-Romeo explodes.
-Golden Ergo can power an entire city block.
-Simon Manus’ machine causes a large earthquake across Krat.
-Laxasia engenders a thunderstorm.
-P creates a shockwave when killing the Nameless Puppet.

Speed:
-P dodges cloud-to-ground(?) electricity/lightning. (Not directly shown in video, but it is possible to do in-game).

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I put in a calculation request for the first feat, though anyone is welcome to try and calc it themselves.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'll help out with collecting feats when I have the chance. It'll be interesting to see how strong the verse will be after everything is found and calculated.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

So, the God tiers are NP, P, and Manus, that's obvious isn't it. But would Laxasia be apart of this, at the very bottom of the God tiers, or would she be at the very top of the Top Tiers?

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I imagine the "god-tiers" would start with Manus, at least off the principle that he absorbed much more Ergo any other enemy/boss before him.

 

[Hypertornado099]

-P dodges cloud-to-ground(?) electricity/lightning.

I watched it frame by frame and it looks like you can only aim dodge it

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I watched it frame by frame and it looks like you can only aim dodge it

It's telegraphed by the pattern on the ground, but it should be possible to dodge in-theory. I'll try to get some footage later this week.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Further questions on scaling, who do yall think starts each tier. As in, which Character starts the mid-tiers, which character starts the high tiers, etc.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Further questions on scaling, who do yall think starts each tier. As in, which Character starts the mid-tiers, which character starts the high tiers, etc.

I'm not entirely sure, but I want to say-
God-tier: P, Nameless Puppet, Manus
High-tier: Laxasia, Romeo, BRBII, Green Monster
Mid-tier: Champion Victor, Corrupted Parade Master
Low-tier: BRB, Andreus, Fuoco, Scrapped Watchman, Parade Master

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I'm not entirely sure, but I want to say-
God-tier: P, Nameless Puppet, Manus
High-tier: Laxasia, Romeo, BRBII, Green Monster
Mid-tier: Champion Victor, Corrupted Parade Master
Low-tier: BRB, Andreus, Fuoco, Scrapped Watchman, Parade Master

Yeah, I'd say this list is agreeable. Though, I always imagined Andreus being a mid tier, just gives those vibes.

Edit: Oh, and NP is above P as well in my opinion, unless you aren't ordering it?

 

[Lukewoesal007]

It's an arbitrary way of organizing the scaling, though Andreus doesn't really have any feats, aside from upscaling from the previous bosses.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Edit: Oh, and NP is above P as well in my opinion, unless you aren't ordering it?

I think they should be roughly equal. Nameless Puppet overpowered P and would've dealt the finishing blow, but P was able to one-shot NP right after.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I think they should be roughly equal. Nameless Puppet overpowered P and would've dealt the finishing blow, but P was able to one-shot NP right after.

Maybe P could have rage boost/emotions amped section in his PnA. He became quite human at the end of the game, and he only one-shot the NP after seeing Gepetto die.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

It's possible, though I don't believe he was able to achieve the feat through emotional empowerment alone.

 

[Hypertornado099]

It's telegraphed by the pattern on the ground, but it should be possible to dodge in-theory. I'll try to get some footage later this week.

Okay

 

[Lukewoesal007]

In the meantime, here's P dodging gunfire.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Alright, I got to the Scrapped Watchman fight on a fresh save file. I'm having trouble getting the timing right for the lightning dodging, since I have to be weary of both the boss and the specific attack, so if anyone is able to get good footage of P dodging that lighting attack, that would be much appreciated.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Managed to grab a decent clip of the lightning-dodging feat. At the very least, I know it is possible to replicate in-game.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

This might be a great feat for attack potency. As P traverses the Workers' Union, a piece of malfunctioning factory equipment drops a metal box, destroying the floor entirely and exposing a lower level of the factory. The puppet contained within the box handily breaks itself out, and P can destroy it, meaning he might scale to the destruction of the floor.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

That's definitely 9-A if applicable, very good for early game stats

 

[Lukewoesal007]

That's definitely 9-A if applicable, very good for early game stats

I'd wager it should apply to AP, since that metal box was seemingly undamaged after being dropped through the floor, and the robot inside easily breaks out of it, so I think it should scale.

 

[Deceived3596]

It'll probably be more like 8-C/High 8-C from eyeballing it. It's fragmenting a large quantity of rock that's pretty thick, with it being comparable in depth to your average metal barrel as shown in the clip. I'll see if I can get someone to calculate that.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Here's another pretty straightforward feat of a fodder-level puppet easily breaking a concrete wall.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Bump. I'm starting to work on a very early list of P's powers and abilities section, going off of everything I have in my 100% completion save. Once I finish my finals, I'll start work on a draft of his profile:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics
Immortality (Types 1, 2, 4, & 8) & Limited Time Manipulation - (So long as P's "heart", his P Organ, remains in-tact, he can continue to fight. Whenever he is felled in combat, Sophia will rewind time to the point when he last used a Stargazer.)
Inorganic Physiology (Type 1) & Self-Sustenance (Types 1, 2, and 3) - (As a Puppet, P does not require any form of sustenance, aside from the Ergo stored within his P Organ, to function properly.)
Teleportation (P can freely teleport between activated Stargazers, and with the Moonphase Pocket Watch, he can immediately teleport to the last Stargazer he used.)
Limited Light Manipulation & Extrasensory Perception (Monad's Lamp emits a faint light to illuminate dimly-lit areas, and it can reveal Dimensional Butterflies, which are normally invisible.)
Self-Destruction (via Last Resort)
Healing & Regeneration (Mid-Low. P can use Pulse Cells to heal himself mid-combat, and the Recharged Amulet automatically restores health.)
Purification (Types 1 & 3. With the Attribute Purification Ampoule, P can cure himself of Overheat, Electric Shock, Decay, and Corruption. With the Special Purification Ampoule, P can cure himself of Break, Shock, and Disruption.)
Weapon Mastery
Acrobatics
Fire Manipulation (The Legion Arm Flamberge spews flames akin to a flamethrower. Weapons with the Salamander Dagger Blade, Black Steel Cutter Blade, and Exploding Pickaxe Blade are naturally imbued with fire. The Flame Grindstone can imbue any weapon with fire. P has access to throwable Fire Canisters and Thermite.
Electricity Manipulation (The Legion Arm Fulminis discharges a powerful electrical pulse. Weapons with the Electric Coil Head, Circular Electric Chainsaw Blade, and Coil Mjolnir Head are naturally imbued with electricity. The Electric Blitz Grindstone can imbue any weapon with electricity. P has access to throwable Electric Blitz Canisters and Throwing Cells.
Acid Manipulation & Corrosion Inducement (The Legion Arm Pandemonium excretes an acidic and corrosive substance. Weapons with the Acidic Crystal Spear Blade, Carcass Crystal Axe Blade, and Acidic Great Curved Sword Blade are naturally imbued with acid. The Acid Grindstone can imbue any weapon with acid. P has access to throwable Acid Canisters and Carcass Body Fluid Bottles.
Limited Summoning & Dimensional Travel (P can summon a Spectre to aid him in combat, provided he is in posession of a Star Fragment, which "cross dimensions to grant human wishes", and there is a Crack's Calling nearby.)

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Quick question: Would it be fair to say that Disruption should theoretically be able to kill most Puppets instantly, and that P has some resistance against it because he can survive brief exposure to it?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Quick question: Would it be fair to say that Disruption should theoretically be able to kill most Puppets instantly, and that P has some resistance against it because he can survive brief exposure to it?

Why would it be fair to say that? If there are dusruption items, maybe they can be used on puppet enemies to test that idea.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

P doesn't have access to anything that can inflict Disruption, though within the story, it seems that Disruption merely causes the cessation of all activity in most Puppets, effectively killing them. There is one Puppet enemy who can inflict Disruption, though every other instance of Disruption in the game is caused by exposed veins of Golden Ergo or Carcass enemies.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

I started work on P's profile, and I've mapped out all of the abilities and resistances I could find (albeit without any scans). I guess we'll just wait for the calcs in the meantime?

 

[Chritin]

Here's the verse page I posted in the general thread

 

[AnAverageUsername]

For Krat being shaken, you just need a free camera to get a good shot. The entire city does render even from far distances, like when you went up that trolley.

 

[Chritin]

Here's the completed Golden Ergo feat.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Here's the completed Golden Ergo feat.

While I do appreciate this calc, and I think it does have its use, I'm not sure if anyone directly scales off from it. It seems unlikely that the Golden Ergo was the Ergo actually powering either the Scrapped Watchman or the Puppet-Devouring Green Monster, since both bosses have their own unique Ergo, which they drop upon defeat.

Ergo obtained from the Scrapped Watchman. It is packed with immense power. A treasure hunter may want this rare Ergo.

The Watchman contorted and broke from the adults' desires. However he never forgot the children who considered him their friend.

Ergo obtained from the Green Monster of the Swamp. It is packed with immense power. A treasure hunter may want this rare Ergo.

No one knows where the Green Monster of the Swamp came from. Some think he was produced from Krat's wrath.

Note how both (and all the other boss Ergo in the game) item descriptions specify they are obtained from their respective boss, and their flavor texts are very personal and intrinsic to the boss themselves. Compare this to the description for the Golden Ergo.

Unusual Ergo acquired after defeating the Green Monster of the Swamp. This is the material that Venigni said he needed to find a way to get to the Isle of Alchemists.

The Golden Ergo is famous for its high value due to its high power.

I don't believe the Golden Ergo directly powered any of the Puppets fought up until you obtain it yourself, though the God-tiers, such as Simon Manus, should massively upscale from the feat, regardless, so I'm fine with putting it on certain profiles.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

For Krat being shaken, you just need a free camera to get a good shot. The entire city does render even from far distances, like when you went up that trolley.

In the meantime, I managed to grab some aerial views of Krat, and I can continue to update this folder if we need references for the size of Krat.

 

[Chritin]

While I do appreciate this calc, and I think it does have its use, I'm not sure if anyone directly scales off from it. It seems unlikely that the Golden Ergo was the Ergo actually powering either the Scrapped Watchman or the Puppet-Devouring Green Monster, since both bosses have their own unique Ergo, which they drop upon defeat.

While I can somewhat see an argument for the Scrapped Watchman not being the same puppet that's in the swamp, it is shown directly that the puppet in the swamp does contain the golden ergo. So I believe it is at least useful for mid-late game Pinocchio. However I still think it is heavily implied to be the same puppet, especially since in the cutscene you can hear Murphy's Whistle.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

While I can somewhat see an argument for the Scrapped Watchman not being the same puppet that's in the swamp, it is shown directly that the puppet in the swamp does contain the golden ergo. So I believe it is at least useful for mid-late game Pinocchio. However I still think it is heavily implied to be the same puppet, especially since in the cutscene you can hear Murphy's Whistle.

The Golden Ergo is embedded into the empty shell of the Scrapped Watchman, which the Green Monster merely puppets. Despite fusing with the shell, the Green Monster doesn't absorb the Golden Ergo into itself, as evidenced by the fact that the Green Monster's Ergo is a separate, distinct item from the Golden Ergo shard. Venigni also directly states that the Golden Ergo is being guarded by the Green Monster and not that it became part of another entity.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

However I still think it is heavily implied to be the same puppet, especially since in the cutscene you can hear Murphy's Whistle.

Actually, in regards to the the Scrapped Watchman, I do not believe the shell that the Green Monster controls is that of the Scrapped Watchman. The Scrapped Watchman has markings/drawings on its arms which are absent on the hull of the Green Monster Puppet's shell.

 

[Chritin]

The Golden Ergo is embedded into the empty shell of the Scrapped Watchman, which the Green Monster merely puppets. Despite fusing with the shell, the Green Monster doesn't absorb the Golden Ergo into itself, as evidenced by the fact that the Green Monster's Ergo is a separate, distinct item from the Golden Ergo shard.

Even if the Green Monster hasn't fully absorbed the Gold Ergo shard, it is still using the watchman which is powered by it. Just like all other puppets, it's using the Ergo as it's powersource, except the Green Monster has commandeered the body to use as a shell. What I mean is that's less of a matter of the Green Monster absorbing the Gold Ergo, but rather it is the Green Monster piloting the the watchman's body which does use it.

Venigni also directly states that the Golden Ergo is being guarded by the Green Monster and not that it became part of another entity.

Venigni knew it was being guarded, which is true. However, this is before we see the Green Monster actually use the puppet itself. He didn't know what would happen to it, just that it was being guarded.

Actually, in regards to the the Scrapped Watchman, I do not believe the shell that the Green Monster controls is that of the Scrapped Watchman. The Scrapped Watchman has markings/drawings on its arms which are absent on the hull of the Green Monster Puppet's shell.

The watchman when we find it in the swamp has basically been stripped of all paint, or at least covered in mud and grime. It makes sense then why the markings wouldn't be visible after it spent time there.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

Even if the Green Monster hasn't fully absorbed the Gold Ergo shard, it is still using the watchman which is powered by it. Just like all other puppets, it's using the Ergo as it's powersource, except the Green Monster has commandeered the body to use as a shell. What I mean is that's less of a matter of the Green Monster absorbing the Gold Ergo, but rather it is the Green Monster piloting the the watchman's body which does use it.

We know that Ergo is both a power source for Puppets and a manifestation of their memories and soul, so if the Scrapped Watchman was powered by the Golden Ergo, that would've been absorbed by either P or Manus, as the former absorbs the vast majority of the the boss' Ergo, particularly the portion which contains memories and personality, and the latter absorbed residual Ergo with his machine.

The watchman when we find it in the swamp has basically been stripped of all paint, or at least covered in mud and grime. It makes sense then why the markings wouldn't be visible after it spent time there.

That level of dilapidation shown by the swamp Puppet would be inconsistent with the scale of time in the game. The swamp Puppet had been left in the swamp for so long that any paint (if any) it was coated with peeled away, and there is a clearly a thick layer of rust across its entire body. The events of Lies of P take place over days, and we know the Scrapped Watchman wasn't moved from the City Hall as late as the defeat of Archbishop Andreus.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So, the God tiers are NP, P, and Manus, that's obvious isn't it. But would Laxasia be apart of this, at the very bottom of the God tiers, or would she be at the very top of the Top Tiers?

I think she downscales maybe? Chronologically, we fight her not long before Simon Manus.

 

[Hypertornado099]

I started work on P's profile, and I've mapped out all of the abilities and resistances I could find (albeit without any scans). I guess we'll just wait for the calcs in the meantime?

• Durability Negation (P can survive brief exposure to enemies and items that inflict Disruption, a status effect which immediately halts the functions of and "kills" most Puppets, if left to accumulate.)

I think you can't have resistance to dura neg, just a resistance to that specific type of dura neg, in this case death or life manipulation probably