Let's get this over with. Yujiro Hanma vs Ikki Kurogane.

[BakiHanma18]

Can I get a summary of what Ikki can do? I don't know anything about him and there is a lot of info here

Lots of good amps, insanely skilled. That's pretty much it

 

[Schnee_One]

Question will Edel's swordsmanship be of any help?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Question will Edel's swordsmanship be of any help?

As far as?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

There is no Occam's razor here. Occam's razor is between 2 assumptions.

What im saying here is why would you make an assumption? HP work, there is nothing to say CT wouldn't. Why would you assume it wouldn't? Cus the same argument could be made if he had used CT instead of HP, you'd say CT is faster because he used it.

Im not saying "stick to x assumption". I'm saying don't make an assumption at all, assumptions are only used when we have to make assumptions. When we don't have to, it's best not to make one.

Conclusion, im fine if you have other feats for HP, but that's no reason to say it's faster than CT because he used it. If both worked he just used one. He doesn't need to go for the best if it isn't needed.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Question will Edel's swordsmanship be of any help?

Yes apparently CT is just fast accel and it has a really strong impact on ppl in the Baki verse.

Edelweiss style does the same in Rakudai except it's basically CT but massively better.

So yeah it would create pseudo blitzin effect. Nothing ground breaking, but nice to have none the less.

 

[BakiHanma18]

There is no Occam's razor here. Occam's razor is between 2 assumptions.
What im saying here is why would you make an assumption? HP work, there is nothing to say CT wouldn't. Why would you assume it wouldn't? Cus the same argument could be made if he had used CT instead of HP, you'd say CT is faster because he used it.

Im not saying "stick to x assumption". I'm saying don't make an assumption at all, assumptions are only used when we have to make assumptions. When we don't have to, it's best not to make one.

Conclusion, im fine if you have other feats for HP, but that's no reason to say it's faster than CT because he used it. If both worked he just used one. He doesn't need to go for the best if it isn't needed.

I'm looking into the first fight it was used, and it was used by a mid tier to tag a high tier, but I'll get specifics soon

 

[Schnee_One]

I Never did understand what exactly made Edel's style so strong or special, it's basically a much weaker Ittou Shura amp without stamina

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I Never did understand what exactly made Edel's style so strong or special, it's basically a much weaker Ittou Shura amp without stamina

Well it basically allows Ikki to:

• Have insane body control

• Use the secret swords without Ittou Shura

• Not accelerate (so he starts with top speed, meaning he crosses distances much faster creating pseudo blitzing effects, he went from slower to blitzing Yuudai because of this)

 

[BakiHanma18]

On a side note, do you think Cockroach Tackle combined with Hand Pocket could tag Ikki, or is that another blitz-level move?

 

[Schnee_One]

Secret swords?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

On a side note, do you think Cockroach Tackle combined with Hand Pocket could tag Ikki, or is that another blitz-level move?

Cockroach Tackle is the much weaker version of what ikki already does and deals with normally. Hand Pocket, while maybe a speed amp, isn't really blitz worthy.

Acceleration isn't a speed blitz, it's mostly an eye trick, it's hard to follow it, but not really fast. And ikki has stuff like Raikou which are faster sword attacks. So that kind of nullifies them both.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Secret swords?

Read his profile

 

[BakiHanma18]

On a side note, do you think Cockroach Tackle combined with Hand Pocket could tag Ikki, or is that another blitz-level move?

Cockroach Tackle is the much weaker version of what ikki already does and deals with normally. Hand Pocket, while maybe a speed amp, isn't really blitz worthy.
Acceleration isn't a speed blitz, it's mostly an eye trick, it's hard to follow it, but not really fast. And ikki has stuff like Raikou which are faster sword attacks. So that kind of nullifies them both.

Okay, so if that isn't a blitz, I can at least start building from there. Not sure how it's possible that CT and HP together isn't a blitz when Apnea Rush and Hand Pocket together was, but I'll try to find some stuff that isn't a blitz to outspeed Ikki

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Apnea Rush and Hand Pocket?

Again you need to elaborate on why it's so good, that Hand Pocket.

But again, nothing you've brought up is in anyway more impressive than the 10 x 10 dodge. Nothing is even close to 10x speed let alone 10 attacks at the same time with 10x speed getting dodged casually.

 

[BakiHanma18]

@Baki

I could go into details as why that would not be enough. By mentioning how people less skilled than ikki beat 10 people 10x faster effortlessly. But i will take the easy way out and say if we somehow assume Yujiro will use those at all, it would be a speed blitz, something that isn't allowed in speed equal if your opponent is faster, like ikki is.

Is it a speed blitz or not? This is kinda important, because Yujiro, to get the job done, can just keep adding amps until he gets to the proper speed, but blitzing is against the rules

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Is Hand Pocket ever stated to increase the speed of the user? All I recall it being is a technique which allows for a swift attack.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Is it a speed blitz or not? This is kinda important, because Yujiro, to get the job done, can just keep adding amps until he gets to the proper speed, but blitzing is against the rules

Nope, but it's not even close to being enough to a speed which ikki can't deal with (and that's without amps).

So cockroach tackle gets negged by Edel Style.

HP gets negged by raikou.

So it's not even getting to the point of being faster. Ikki has a plain advantage right now.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Is it a speed blitz or not? This is kinda important, because Yujiro, to get the job done, can just keep adding amps until he gets to the proper speed, but blitzing is against the rules

Nope, but it's not even close to being enough to a speed which ikki can't deal with (and that's without amps).
So cockroach tackle gets negged by Edel Style.

HP gets negged by raikou.

So it's not even getting to the point of being faster. Ikki has a plain advantage right now.

That's why I need to know how many more amps to add

 

[BakiHanma18]

Is Hand Pocket ever stated to increase the speed of the user? All I recall it being is a technique which allows for a swift attack.

Yes, it allowed Ron to tag Oliva almost before he could react (though he was only semi trying), it let Baki tag Yujiro several times after failing a full out blitz, so it was decided that it's a speed amp

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Add all you want, see if you can do anything. Add them all, see if it blitzes.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Add all you want, see if you can do anything. Add them all, see if it blitzes.

Okay, this might take a bit

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Im basically allowing bloodlusted Yujiro here, but eh. I don't want there to be any doubt that Ikki is superior, so that's fine.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Starting to think this isn't fair if Ikki's just gonna blitz him anyway.

 

[KGiffoni]

How can Ikki blitz aside from Rasetsu?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

From what I'm hearing Ikki can apparently dance around people 10x faster than him and throwing 10 attacks at the same time at him super casually. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so his Reaction speed has to be absurd. Doesn't Speed Equal equalize all speeds?

 

[KGiffoni]

Sangan alone can do that, let alone the other amps.

 

[AbcMac23]

From what I'm hearing Ikki can apparently dance around people 10x faster than him and throwing 10 attacks at the same time at him super casually. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so his Reaction speed has to be absurd. Doesn't Speed Equal equalize all speeds?

What kind of writing is this...lol This doesn't make sense to me unless the MC had a skill to amp up his speed to a crazy amount

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wait, I just remembered something. Doesn't Yujiro just have to last 61 seconds? If so, can't he use his "Precog" to just outlast Ikki?

 

[KGiffoni]

Wait, I just remembered something. Doesn't Yujiro just have to last 61 seconds? If so, can't he use his "Precog" to just outlast Ikki?

That is right, but Ikki also has his own Analytical Prediction. In practice they're the same tho.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok that's a lot of ppl to answer. I'll answer them in order

@Soul

Not so soon, i got plans here. Don't worry about the blitz will ya? I haven't brought up "ikki blitz gg" as an argument yet have I? Why should you care? Just let me manage this.

@KG

Ittou Shura is a 10x amp to all his stats, given everything Ikki can do it can be very blitzy.

@Soul

That was done by someone less skilled than Ikki actually. It was Fu Xiaoli and it wasn't because of speed, they're specifically faster, it's just that too much skill can actually make up for it. I've posted the quote before, but i'll post it at the end of this comment.

@Kg

Not really...again until there is a multiplier for Sangan it ain't doing it. Also show me the scene of Sangan being used.

@Soul

Nah, cus this isn't Ittou Shura ikki, this is base Ikki. Base Ikki doesn't have such a time limit.

Anyway the quote of skill outdoing speed. Ikki also did the same with 4 of his clones in Ittou Shura defeating them in a similar way.

At that moment, Kiba and Larp became speechless with the sight before their eyes.

The ice clones that attacked simultaneously at a speed that even created afterimages of them.

Xiaoli dodged all the storm of instant slashes unleashed by them.

No, she let the slashes go past her. That wasn't surprising in itself.

If the person had a degree of strength, then it was possible. Larp was one of them.

Surprisingly, Xiaoli's defensive body movements were also one of those.

A technique that didn't open their eyes wide.

A speed that didn't disorient them.

All the movements of Xiaoli could be followed by their eyes.

They clearly could see what she was doing and what she would attempt to do next.

That speed of hers was a tenth of Kiba's, or less――?

――And yet, she wasn't even grazed by the stroke of swords done by 10 people.

Not only that, in the little time between slash and slash,

She destroyed the『ice clones』one after another.

With palms.

With fists.

With kicks.

With the iron ball attached to her feet.

Reality betrayed the overwhelming difference in speed. That was the proof of the absolute difference in strength.

It didn't matter how slow her movements were――the techniques of a master couldn't be dodged.

There was absolutely no waste in her movements.

 

[KGiffoni]

@KG

Ittou Shura is a 10x amp to all his stats, given everything Ikki can do it can be very blitzy.

@Kg

Not really...again until there is a multiplier for Sangan it ain't doing it. Also show me the scene of Sangan being used.

1. I see.

2. Sangan was a technique used for average soldiers to defend against and dodge arrows. Speed of the average human is, on an arithmetic medium, 6.35 m/s. Speed of an arrow is, on an arithmetic medium, 80 m/s. Even if we were to use Athletic Human speeds, it would still be in that 10x range.

And Doppo Orochi used Sangan to blitz Yujiro, who blitzed Doppo before he started using Sangan. I think with both these feats it's safe to say Sangan is at least a 10x amp.

 

[BakiHanma18]

FML Vs battle just ate my 2 hour response...

 

[BakiHanma18]

Ah shit... here we go again...

 

[KGiffoni]

FML Vs battle just ate my 2 hour response...

Omega F

 

[KGiffoni]

Do Ctrl + Z if you haven't refreshed the page yet

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

2. Sangan was a technique used for average soldiers to defend against and dodge arrows. Speed of the average human is, on an arithmetic medium, 6.35 m/s. Speed of an arrow is, on an arithmetic medium, 80 m/s. Even if we were to use Athletic Human speeds, it would still be in that 10x range.

And Doppo Orochi used Sangan to blitz Yujiro, who blitzed Doppo before he started using Sangan. I think with both these feats it's safe to say Sangan is at least a 10x amp.

You don't scale it like that, or else Naruto would have FTL reactions due to kid Sasuke keeping up with MHS+'s actions with the sharingan. Unless a multiplier statement is given scaling like that doesn' t really work.

And blitzing someone that blitzed you before isn't really equatable to X10.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Do Ctrl + Z if you haven't refreshed the page yet

You're a homie for sure, and I appreciate the help, but my dumbass almost immediately refreshed...

I have the basics of what I was saying in my head, so I'll dive back in

 

[Firephoenixearl]

2. Sangan was a technique used for average soldiers to defend against and dodge arrows. Speed of the average human is, on an arithmetic medium, 6.35 m/s. Speed of an arrow is, on an arithmetic medium, 80 m/s. Even if we were to use Athletic Human speeds, it would still be in that 10x range.

And Doppo Orochi used Sangan to blitz Yujiro, who blitzed Doppo before he started using Sangan. I think with both these feats it's safe to say Sangan is at least a 10x amp.

First of all, not applicable scaling and second of all, that's not how it works. You can aim dodge easily, even a small boost in reaction speed would allow that.

Need scan of that, but it isn't 10x either way.

Anyway big F.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Risci said it perfectly.

 

[KGiffoni]

2. Sangan was a technique used for average soldiers to defend against and dodge arrows. Speed of the average human is, on an arithmetic medium, 6.35 m/s. Speed of an arrow is, on an arithmetic medium, 80 m/s. Even if we were to use Athletic Human speeds, it would still be in that 10x range.

And Doppo Orochi used Sangan to blitz Yujiro, who blitzed Doppo before he started using Sangan. I think with both these feats it's safe to say Sangan is at least a 10x amp.

You don't scale it like that, or else Naruto would have FTL reactions due to kid Sasuke keeping up with MHS+'s actions with the sharingan. Unless a multiplier statement is given scaling like that doesn' t really work.
And blitzing someone that blitzed you before isn't really equatable to X10.

About the 2nd example, i get it. But for the 1st one, why can't it be used? Here's the scan where that is said.