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Let's get this over with. Yujiro Hanma vs Ikki Kurogane.

About Dorian vs retsu no. That was a thrown attack. A very small thing being thrown through blowing. Scaling that to Dorian speed is like saying the speed at which air leaves your mouth is equal to your running speed. And retsu's attack was never a quick one he literally made a flashy move before standing and then attacking. Doesn't somehow scale in speed.

Jack vs kengo, Jack wasn't affected. He was moved, he wasn't damaged or harmed in any way. He never intended to take any action against those attacks, same as how he doesn't intend to take any action against the throat attack. His jaw was moving from the rush of attacks he didn't get any damage nor did he intend to block or dodge them.

Yuji vs Oliver. They don't scale for shit. They didn't even fight. The only thing that happened was yuji dodging and attacking Oliver then disappears. How do you scale Oliver speed from that? 2nd fight. Ok so if I'm correct whart you're saying is Oliver scales in speed to a guy who didn't take action until the fist was inches away from his face yet he punched oliver back before that. U serious?
 
That's 3 for ikki I believe.

I didn't even need to get into the techniques ikki can use, just how he can skill anything yuji can do. Neat.

@Soul

Type in the op, "amps restricted for ikki". Ikki can already win, with amps it would be a stomp.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
That's 3 for ikki I believe.
I didn't even need to get into the techniques ikki can use, just how he can skill anything yuji can do. Neat.

@Soul

Type in the op, "amps restricted for ikki". Ikki can already win, with amps it would be a stomp.
Click to expand...
Not really, as i said, i think Yujiro would win if bloodlusted. I already know Ikki's main techniques. I'm only voting Ikki because i'm exhausted at arguing and because Yujiro could only win this using his techniques to the maximum potential, what he doesn't do in-character thanks to his immense ego and pride.


But yeah i think it's good to restrict Ikki's Rasetsu, seems stompish
 
You can make a bloodlusted Yujiro vs Ikki after this if you want, i don't mind.

But yeah this is the reason i avoided arguing Ittou Amps.
 
It'd be weird to have two Yujiro vs Ikki matches for bloodlusted/not bloodlusted, not sure if that's allowed, but if it is, i better start working on that OP

Btw, which Ikki key was being used here? 1st or 2nd?
 
Firephoenixearl said:
First of all, they don't scale in speed. Second of all no, he's just deciding not to take breaks between attacks. I can attack you once then attack again after 7 hours. I can also attack once and attack again in a split second. I didn't stat amp, I just decided not to do things in between like breathing taking coffee breaks, monologuing etc. My speed didn't increase im just attacking more often.
You just don't assign multipliers, given that speed is equalized. If it weren't you can say sth like "can blitz hypersonic guys".


No no no. It moved his leg, moved his jaw etc. Where did you even get the crack his jaw? Jack got no damage and even after that he didn't move and let him attack again. Back to the point absolutely not. You trying to scale speed amp cus a fodder attacked a top tier who was literally reluctant to block or dodge ain't happening.

No, I've seen the fight, scaling from hitting a guy that might as well be crying and closed his eyes mid fight is plain stupidity. Just drop it, it's becoming circular.
Click to expand...
Okay, but they do scale in speed, and he's literally taking out any breaks between punches, as in punching faster, which is an amp. You're argument is incredibly different to the actual situation, where Spec goes from being able to punch maybe something like 50x in under 5 seconds to being able to punch 100x in under 5 seconds. He's literally able to do more stuff at the same speed, which would require a speed increase

If X character hits Y character without X character even having a chance to react, what are we supposed to call that? He has several amps that allow him to do that, so this is important information

Yeah, and Doppo just moves Dorian... Jack is clearly shocked in that scene, and regardless of the context of the overarching interaction, at that moment, Jack was clearly and undeniably shocked by those hits

I won't drop the point, as I see no reason to. As far as I'm concerned, the point is valid and I haven't been argued against

As far as Dorian and Retsu, what are you talking about??? Retsu dodged, his attack wasn't telegraphed at all, yet Dorian could still dodge it, and for as Dorian's attack, unless we want to say that Dorian is actually faster than Retsu, it's a moot point.

Already addresses that, he was clearly and visibly shocked, unless somehow you're watching a different fight than I am

Bruh you kill me, I gave you an example of Katsumi doing the same thing to Pickle earlier with Hitless Blow despite Katsumi being massively slower than Pickle, but apparently that's not a speed amp??? As for Yujiro vs Oliva, I'm sorry you don't feel as though they scale in speed, but it's quite obvious from the Baki fight at the very LEAST he's in a casual Yujiro's range. It's unqualifiable how much effort Yujiro is putting forth at any given moment, so who knows, he could've actually put something into the speed of the hit. As for young Yujiro, they are similar speeds as clear as day

And I'm assuming since Baki vs Oliva wasn't mentioned, you accept that point?
 
@Earl This speed amp argument seems to be going nowhere, so I'd like to put it on the back burner for now. It would seem the arguments for and against are a lot more than 500 posts, so for now I'd like to talk about other things Yujiro can try, if you're okay with discussing other things?
 
No im just not gonna answer those anymore. Im trying to tell you you're just taking things out of context, but i do not intend to get into circular arguments. People can vote the side which has the better arguments, im done arguing speed.

Feel free to bring other things up.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
No im just not gonna answer those anymore. Im trying to tell you you're just taking things out of context, but i do not intend to get into circular arguments. People can vote the side which has the better arguments, im done arguing speed.
Feel free to bring other things up.
Click to expand...
Okay, dude. Sounds good to meƒæî
 
So, a few questions for Ikki:

This may sound a bit weird, but is Ikki faster than himself?

Is his sword physically manifested in this key?
 
>Is ikki faster than himself?

Inb4 i bring up him beating 4 Ittou Shura clones in base casually Explain better though.

And yes it is physically manifested as OP says "material form intetsu".
 
Firephoenixearl said:
>Is ikki faster than himself?
</s>Inb4 i bring up him beating 4 Ittou Shura clones in base casually</s> Explain better though.

And yes it is physically manifested as OP says "material form intetsu".
Click to expand...
Okay, so what I mean by "Is be faster than himself", which after thinking about it is probably the wrong question, is Yujiro has an technique called Udonde where he leaves himself wide open, only to attack someone right before they hit. Would this work to any degree, and if not, why?

1:40 Explanation of the move https://youtu.be/MrVghQV8xDQ
 
That's just dodging.

He's not leaving himself open, he's just not taking a stance then dodging and counterattacking respectively. Why's that such a big deal?
 
Firephoenixearl said:
That's just dodging.
He's not leaving himself open, he's just not taking a stance then dodging and counterattacking respectively. Why's that such a big deal?
Click to expand...
Because he approaches, but the move has 0 openings, so if he's attack, the opponent is going to to get countered
 
The whole thread is an argument about how dumb Ikki's skill is. The author of the novel wanks him, these feats are bullshit.
 
Ionliosite said:
The whole thread is an argument about how dumb Ikki's skill is. The author of the novel wanks him, these feats are bullshit.
Click to expand...
Wait, elaborate.

Also so I don't come off as just here for derail, Ikki FRA.
 
Wait, elaborate.

Ikki is explicity just a regular peak human with some sword training, and yet he has all those bullshit feats, and the author explains him being able to tackle on superhuman with causality based abilities via saying something like "his effort/determination is Ikki's real Noble Art" and that kind of bull.
 
Well, Kaku Kaioh is a Below Average Human yet he can fight Yujiro himself. It seems like every very skilled verse suffers from something similar.


I'll re-do this with bloodlusted Yujiro when i have the time and will to argue
 
Ionliosite said:
Ikki is explicity just a regular peak human with some sword training, and yet he has all those bullshit feats, and the author explains him being able to tackle on superhuman with causality based abilities via saying something like "his effort/determination is Ikki's real Noble Art" and that kind of bull.
Click to expand...
I don't hate Rakudai at all, but that's meh and lazy writing.
 
It is true. In a fight it states that exact thing, "Stella understood that Ikki's strongest asset isn't an invincible minute, but his ability to read everything in his surrounding" or something along those lines.
 
I never expected Ion to say it.

Also, Ikki FRA, I guess.
 
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