Let's discuss KH3? SPOILERS for Kingdom Hearts 3 SPOILERS (Obviously.)

[Bobsican]

Again, I already said that just giving them a separated key from the "base" one for while being linked ot Sora would be better overall.

Note how they even noticed how while Sora was in there Buzz´s laser became real, for example.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I don't know about bosses (through it could be interesting to assume the scaling) and i assumed that Vanitas wasn't restraining himself when he visited a new world so Sully capable of matching him was pretty impressive. Also, i'm talking about Jones beceause he is actually different from other average Disney villains (in the way that villains like Gothel, Hans, Clayton, or Evil Queen usually used their inner darkness to summon a Heartless or act like a power while Jones only relies on his basics supernatural powers and even has a "new" one in addition. Besides, he's more implied with fighting Sora that other villains. But i might be wrong).

About the Demon Tide, basically it would be 3-A too i suppose ?

 

[Dark649]

Probably. That is just my opinion based of a past discussion thread, you can discuss it with the other Admins to have different opinions about it.

 

[Bobsican]

I mean, one thing is directly scaling them, and another thing is just scaling them to while being along Sora.

 

[Bobsican]

Maybe another thread for that should be made?

 

[Dark649]

When the massive KH3 revision will be made to scale them, you can ask about these.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay.

However, to my knowledge thre´s not much to add to Sora, Donald or Goofy beyond what I already said.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Bobsican Basically, what the do in the game don't change that muc than usual apart for beating Xehanort at the end.

So to be clear, everyone (SoD, GoL, Demon Tide, KH and X-Blade) is going to be 3-A and the Disney characters and potential feat should be discussed later ?

 

[Bobsican]

Wait, 3-A?! From what?

If it´s via the True Kingdom Hearts, then that likely would fall as 2-C instead.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

3-A is discussed from the beginning. KH and True X-Blade are for sure and the rest of the cast must be discussed.

I don't think 2-C really feats because it's pretty clear that Xehanort intended to purge the entire Universe, wich is unique in the verse, and i don't think Worlds count as universes or dimensions.

Apart from this, i agree with you about a potential KH (3) Disney characters feats thread (again i'm not an Admin of staff member, it's just my opinion).

 

[Bobsican]

Lore explicitly puts them as separate universes.

Or maybe that part is left at discussion due to the Gummi Ship stuff.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

It would be good to have an explaination about the "universes" word since it could have a different meaning from this wiki's. Also, KH 3 is about Xehanort trying to purge THE Universe so it is likely one big Universe and he didn't talked about changing the past. Of course, there the Realm of Light and the Realm of Darkness which are explicitly separate dimensions so it's not very clear.

 

[Bobsican]

From the Crossovers page on our Wiki: "Profiles for crossovers not canon to the main story of one or more of the franchises involved may only be created according to the regulations defined in the Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles page."Although, it's unclear to me where Kingdom Hearts falls. To summarize its approach to canon:

• All the worlds at one point were all one, but after the Keyblade War, they were split apart, creating the various worlds.

• By default, most worlds (many Disney worlds included) don't know of the existence of other worlds.

This can come in handy for the universe stuff.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Possibly. But i still think that we can't really say that every world is a universe by itself (through i could be wrong).

Apart from that, have you any idea of new abilities to add to some characters (i have a few for Xehanort) ?

 

[Bobsican]

Can we give to Sora Type 8 Immortality via his bond to Kairi?
Also... (For Sora):

- Water Manipulation via the Water spells

- Plasma Manipulation via the Stitch summon

- Sound Manipulation via summons

- Portal Creation (Glad to find this one not added yet)

- Vehicular Mastery

- Resistance to Air Manipulation

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Ehh.... The manga describes the worlds as explicitly universes ( even calling KH as a Multiverse rather than a Universe ) , and there is evidence that some worlds contain a solar system & even a galaxy... So it isn't unfounded. And the way they are separate is similar to realities due to the separation of the worlds mentioned in KH1 near the end.... But I'm not going into that too deep unless someone wants to.

 

[Bobsican]

But I'm not going into that too deep unless someone wants to.

Please do, doing such thing could help make the revisions far easier.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Bobsican Ok. I can propose :

- Light Manipulation (Xehanort and KH)

- Spatial Manipulation (Xehanort already has this power so it's only about adding Scala Ed Caelum thing as a justification)

- Absorption (KH and Xehanort via using its power since was able to absorb Sora's light)

- Darkness Manipulation (KH)

- Portal Creation (KH, since it can lead to all worlds)

- Creation (KH)

- Energy Manipulation (KH)

- Maybe Soul Manipulation (KH, if it applies to hearts in the verse)


Thee 20d Existential Seed If you say so, i only focuse on the games and Back Cover.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Hearts and Souls in KH are two different things.

 

[Dark649]

When the KH3 thread will be up, the stuff discussed here can be brought.

 

[MYHERO]

So do tl;dr

Do you guys believe in a 3-A rating for some of characters?

 

[Bobsican]

So do tl;dr
Do you guys believe in a 3-A rating for some of characters?

No, I believe in 2-C rating with some luck.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's 3-A.

 

[Bobsican]

Ehh.... The manga describes the worlds as explicitly universes ( even calling KH as a Multiverse rather than a Universe ) , and there is evidence that some worlds contain a solar system & even a galaxy... So it isn't unfounded. And the way they are separate is similar to realities due to the separation of the worlds mentioned in KH1 near the end.... But I'm not going into that too deep unless someone wants to.

This could make True Kingdom Hearts tier 2 if we get more details.

 

[MYHERO]

That would just apply to the manga version. And since the manga version never finished none of the manga characters would get a 2-C rating sadly.

 

[Bobsican]

Wasn´t the manga a secondary canon?

 

[MYHERO]

Where is the source for that?

 

[Bobsican]

I think there was a WoG statement about that, btu I´m not sure.

 

[Imaginym]

To summarize its approach to canon:

• All the worlds at one point were all one, but after the Keyblade War, they were split apart, creating the various worlds.

• By default, most worlds (many Disney worlds included) don't know of the existence of other worlds.

This can come in handy for the universe stuff.

If my memory serves, this was part of the lore detailed in the mobile games. Canon to the main games? Yes. But AFAIK, they don't involve different universes.

To say they were split apart is to abbreviate a bit. Remember Kairi's grandma & her story in KH1? Yeah. What she says is kinda true.

• In the age of Fairy Tales, when the Foretellers were about, all the worlds were one. Then the Keyblade War happened, & didn't so much split them apart, as it did, supposedly destroy most or all of the known universe.

• What we're told is that Light in the Hearts of Children ended up rebuilding the destroyed worlds; This is why the Dandelions were important; The destruction from the Keyblade War & them spreading out with light in their hearts is why the worlds are around, yet fragmented, separated from one another.

• Unfortunately, the mobile games Player Character, while they did fight in the Keyblade war, kinda ended up in a coma afterwards, being transported to a different realm by Ephemera & Skuld; The MoM had a set up plan for when the Foretellers left; The power all the Keyblade Wielders were using was based on light from the future, based on the Book of Prophecies. Which all 5 Foretellers had.

• So when the Foretellers disappeared at the end of the Keyblade War, the MoM's backup plan came into play. All the Dandelions, per Ava's instructions (& Player) are in a Data Realm with Data Worlds. In said Data Realm, events are fixed (Hence post-KH1 Maleficent lamenting being unable to change the ending in spite of her time travel, future knowledge, etc.) & with the exception of the new 5 Union Leaders, everyone's memory has been wiped of the Keyblade War.

I hope I got all that right.

Anyway, the fact that it's light from THE future could likely mean there's only one timeline. (Also, shoutouts to how destructive the Dandelions were & the power of the Light in the Hearts of Children/The Dandelions.)

 

[MYHERO]

Damn 3-A is a big upgrade. I thought it would be like 4-A or something but it's like on a different tier.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

DragonmasterXYZ I know but to me, Soul Manipulation is the closest thing to "Heart Manipulation" in the verse. Besides, i thought KH has power over the souls. Despite this, are you ok with the other abilities ?

Manga is considered as a second canon apparently, the main story focuses on the games. And yeah, apparently there is only one timeline since it's all about one futur you can't change and purge THE Universe. Time Travel is possible but not time changing (or at least not on a universal scale and yeah, you can possibly change time but not in the present).

 

[Bobsican]

What about the Winnie Pooh realm?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

It's a pocket dimension or something like that i think.

 

[Bobsican]

It could be taken into acoutn to make it tier 2 instead?

 

[Dark649]

Nope, pocket dimensions like that are not universal sized.

 

[Bobsican]

What about the time axis?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

The Winny world seems to have its own time cycle but i don't think it's enough to go to tier 2.

 

[Bobsican]

To be tier 2 you have to affect more than one timeline as far I´m aware (At least in this case), the spatial size by itself isn´t a factor.

 

[Imaginym]

DOES a world in a book count? Or is it just another part of the same universe?

You could also make an argument about Traverse Town in DDD.

At the start of DDD, to begin their Mark of Mastery Exam, Yen Sid sends Sora & Riku back in time to when the Destiny Islands were destroyed, which Organization XIII is able to exploit because Ansem was there: He was time travelling. IIRC, part of it was to meet up with YX. Ansem in that form actually appears in KH1; He's the guy in the brown cloak, & was just a heart at that time, as you must give up your physical form to travel in time.

Anyway, Organization XIII puts Sora to sleep. Riku senses Ansem, &, subconsciously, rather than dive into the next Sleeping World after Destiny Islands, he dives into Sora's Dreams, & becomes a Dream Eater.

Sora ended up going into the Dreams of Sleeping Worlds (& the Sleeping/Dreaming Data World that is The Grid somehow.), and Riku went into Sora's Dreams. This is why Riku has the Dream Eater symbol on his back in DDD.

Anyway, point is, it's later revealed that the Traverse Town Sora is in and the Traverse Town Riku in have demonstratably different flows of time, as shown by the timer on the hands of TWEWY characters. Different worlds in fact, canonically have different flows of time.

But other than that, not much solid. For all we know, the Realm of Sleep is connected to the Realm In-Between, the Realm of Light & Realm of Darkness, but separated by invisible barriers, just like all the other worlds are.

Heck, keep in mind, the Realm In-Between (Which has the Land of Departure.) & the Realm of Light are shown to be quite connected via the Lanes Between in BBS, which Eraqus opened. Twilight Town, Mysterious Tower & Castle Oblivion are also in the Realm In-Between.

Heck, even the Realm of Darkness has the End of Sea/Dark Margin to connect it to the Realm In-Between. Or is at least, the border of the Realm of Darkness.

 

[Bobsican]

"At least 3-A, possibly 2-C" rating perhaps?