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Ok, if it's good to everyone, i'll make it. I just asked because, since he is the one who wrote the Book of Prophecy at the beginning and that he doesn't need it to see the futur, he might have been able to alter reality without it.
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Let's discuss KH3? SPOILERS for Kingdom Hearts 3 SPOILERS (Obviously.)
- Thread starter Imaginym
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Dark649 Glad to see i wasn't the only one to remember lol.
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Yep.
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Apart from that, how about the 3-A thing ?
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Not necessarily for the Master (though Luxu is likely gonna get some buff and since the Master is more powerful than his apprentices, he should scale to i think) but for KH III characers like Xehanort.
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MYHERO said:
Bobsican
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Can we give to Sora Type 8 Immortality via his bond to Kairi?
Also... (For Sora):
- Water Manipulation via the Water spells
- Plasma Manipulation via the Stitch summon
- Sound Manipulation via summons
- Portal Creation (Glad to find this one not added yet)
- Vehicular Mastery
- Resistance to Air Manipulation
Also... (For Sora):
- Water Manipulation via the Water spells
- Plasma Manipulation via the Stitch summon
- Sound Manipulation via summons
- Portal Creation (Glad to find this one not added yet)
- Vehicular Mastery
- Resistance to Air Manipulation
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Well, seems we're already prematurely discussing spoilery revision stuff. (Wasn't there an embargo to wait 2 weeks? Oh well.)
@Bobsician: As Immortality, it's questionable, at least, in terms of combat applicability. When he tells Kairi she's the reason he didn't fade away, she tells him "All I had to do was believe you wouldn't". Meaning Kairi has to not only exist, but actively participate for it to work. And the circumstances probably were ones were she'd believe Sora wouldn't fade away, given it was a climactic battle.
Also, his resurrection involves the Final World. Chirithy tells Sora he's "barely hanging on by a thread", & that's why he has a form there, despite being "conceptually scattered". To resurrect himself & be more than just a Heart, he had to reconstruct himself.
So let's review what seem to be the conditions for Sora resurrecting this way:
1. Kairi must be alive, & must believe Sora won't fade away.
2. Sora has to put himself back together in the Final World.
Also, didn't Sora end up time travelling once he returned to the Final World, hence the Lingering Will stopping Terra-Xehanort the 2nd time around? If so, that might mean this kind of resurrection/immortality may not even take him to when he died, depending on how the time travel was initiated.
As for everything else:
Summon abilities should specify it's via the Stitch summon if it's on the profile. Where does Resistance to Air Manipulation come from?
@Bobsician: As Immortality, it's questionable, at least, in terms of combat applicability. When he tells Kairi she's the reason he didn't fade away, she tells him "All I had to do was believe you wouldn't". Meaning Kairi has to not only exist, but actively participate for it to work. And the circumstances probably were ones were she'd believe Sora wouldn't fade away, given it was a climactic battle.
Also, his resurrection involves the Final World. Chirithy tells Sora he's "barely hanging on by a thread", & that's why he has a form there, despite being "conceptually scattered". To resurrect himself & be more than just a Heart, he had to reconstruct himself.
So let's review what seem to be the conditions for Sora resurrecting this way:
1. Kairi must be alive, & must believe Sora won't fade away.
2. Sora has to put himself back together in the Final World.
Also, didn't Sora end up time travelling once he returned to the Final World, hence the Lingering Will stopping Terra-Xehanort the 2nd time around? If so, that might mean this kind of resurrection/immortality may not even take him to when he died, depending on how the time travel was initiated.
As for everything else:
Summon abilities should specify it's via the Stitch summon if it's on the profile. Where does Resistance to Air Manipulation come from?
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Ah, cool. Wonder if he has any other equipment-based abilities. I also wonder if Ultimate Form is valid for use on a profile. It comes with the Ultima Keyblade, & requires all 7 Orichalcum+ in the game, which can ONLY be used for synthesizing said Ultima Keyblade. One of them is obtained via a chest for returning to the Final World.
Bobsican
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Questions:
- Where would you guys place KH3 Elsa & Sully at hypothetically ? Elsa created a enemy that Sora couldn't even defeat and was stomped by. Remember he fought Dark Tide, a enemy that supposedly is far stronger than KH3 Riku, who can fight the Seekers of Darkness from the Keyblade Graveyard.
- Sully managed to grapple Vanitas with relative effort... To the point he dropped his keyblade (Reminescent to Riku doing so to Roxas)
- Should we give Donald Duck Zettaflare or is it a one time thing ? Same with Mickey's Ultima
- Is Kairi affected by the upgrade ? She was able to block strikes from Xion and several Seekers and her keyblade did not break, meaning she was not ludicrously weaker.
- I also think that even BoG KH3 Sora far surpasses his previous peak for holding his own against the Dark Tide when Pre-KH3 Mickey and Aqua were getting knocked around like a child's play toy by it.
I also hope the Foreteller's get upgraded so the Protagonist (Union Chi) will be as a result. Though you could argue a specific way the Fortellers and Protagonists do scale... It is a long shot and I doubt it would be considered.
- Where would you guys place KH3 Elsa & Sully at hypothetically ? Elsa created a enemy that Sora couldn't even defeat and was stomped by. Remember he fought Dark Tide, a enemy that supposedly is far stronger than KH3 Riku, who can fight the Seekers of Darkness from the Keyblade Graveyard.
- Sully managed to grapple Vanitas with relative effort... To the point he dropped his keyblade (Reminescent to Riku doing so to Roxas)
- Should we give Donald Duck Zettaflare or is it a one time thing ? Same with Mickey's Ultima
- Is Kairi affected by the upgrade ? She was able to block strikes from Xion and several Seekers and her keyblade did not break, meaning she was not ludicrously weaker.
- I also think that even BoG KH3 Sora far surpasses his previous peak for holding his own against the Dark Tide when Pre-KH3 Mickey and Aqua were getting knocked around like a child's play toy by it.
I also hope the Foreteller's get upgraded so the Protagonist (Union Chi) will be as a result. Though you could argue a specific way the Fortellers and Protagonists do scale... It is a long shot and I doubt it would be considered.
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From the Crossovers page on our Wiki: "Profiles for crossovers not canon to the main story of one or more of the franchises involved may only be created according to the regulations defined in the Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles page."
Although, it's unclear to me where Kingdom Hearts falls. To summarize its approach to canon:
1) Certain franchises feature several characters that are considered as equally valid "official" versions of the character. These types of profiles can generally be created without any problems.
>How do we determine if KH versions of Disney characters are "official" enough?
I would assume we go with 5).
5) Certain franchises also contain a variety of spin-offs and alternate continuities, yet justify their existence due to in-series Multiverses. In such cases, Rule Number 3 still applies, albeit to a lesser scale. Original characters from said works are all allowed, yet alternate versions of original canon characters should not be abused.
Oddly enough, this segment of 5) is from the example for it: If the alternate non-canonical version of a character is notable enough in the sense of having their own feats, and a different role and purpose, then it is possible that profiles for them can be created.
Do Elsa & Sully have their own feats? What are they? Do they have different roles/purposes? I know that she's a Princess of Heart, but a new classification isn't enough. What does she do? Does Sully do more than "yeetus Vanitas"?
Although, it's unclear to me where Kingdom Hearts falls. To summarize its approach to canon:
- All the worlds at one point were all one, but after the Keyblade War, they were split apart, creating the various worlds.
- By default, most worlds (many Disney worlds included) don't know of the existence of other worlds.
1) Certain franchises feature several characters that are considered as equally valid "official" versions of the character. These types of profiles can generally be created without any problems.
>How do we determine if KH versions of Disney characters are "official" enough?
I would assume we go with 5).
5) Certain franchises also contain a variety of spin-offs and alternate continuities, yet justify their existence due to in-series Multiverses. In such cases, Rule Number 3 still applies, albeit to a lesser scale. Original characters from said works are all allowed, yet alternate versions of original canon characters should not be abused.
Oddly enough, this segment of 5) is from the example for it: If the alternate non-canonical version of a character is notable enough in the sense of having their own feats, and a different role and purpose, then it is possible that profiles for them can be created.
Do Elsa & Sully have their own feats? What are they? Do they have different roles/purposes? I know that she's a Princess of Heart, but a new classification isn't enough. What does she do? Does Sully do more than "yeetus Vanitas"?
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Elsa hasn't any real feat in the game to me but Sully did managed to overpower Vanitas. Vanitas was surprised by the attack but wasn't able to free himself from Sully's holding (wich is pretty impressive knowing how Vanitas is powerful).
Davy Jones is an interesting case to. He has additional Teleportation and Portal Creation (he can summon Kraken's tentacles through magical portals to attack the party), was barely hurt by his fight with Sora, Donald, Goofy and Jack, kept fighting with Jack right after that without showing any sign of discomfort and even physically overpowered Sora, Donald and Goofy when they assaulted him (interesting thing i noticed about that is that Jones is the only Disney villain so far who managed to get Sora and his friends so enraged they attacked him unarmed. Not even Maleficent provoked such a violent response).
Davy Jones is an interesting case to. He has additional Teleportation and Portal Creation (he can summon Kraken's tentacles through magical portals to attack the party), was barely hurt by his fight with Sora, Donald, Goofy and Jack, kept fighting with Jack right after that without showing any sign of discomfort and even physically overpowered Sora, Donald and Goofy when they assaulted him (interesting thing i noticed about that is that Jones is the only Disney villain so far who managed to get Sora and his friends so enraged they attacked him unarmed. Not even Maleficent provoked such a violent response).
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Should probably remove that only Twilight Xemnas has the ability to cast a dome of darkness that allows him to fire hundreds of lasers. He does that in his base form to Lea/Axel in a cutscene in the Keyblade Graveyard. Most of the abilities he showed in his twilight form he's shown he can use in his base form as well. I think the only ability he hasn't shown was the cloning ability.
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Agreed. In fact, since DDD, he showed every ability he had in Twilight form except duplication maybe.
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On the Demon Tide it should be noted that it's stronger in the realm of darkness than in the realm of light.
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I'm not a stuff member or an Admin but one shotting a Heartless is something basics characters can do including Disney characters like Mike. The roar can count as a feat for Sully though. Still think his major one is against Vanitas.
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Yeah.... I consider Elsa creating the Snow Monster a far more impressive feat. Considering at that point Sora's far above pre-KH3 Aqua & Mickey, Elsa creating a monster that was seemingly unaffected by their (Sora , Donald, and Goofy) strikes. Plus Larxene considered her a contender for being one of the Seekers of Darkness if her heart submitted to darkness.
Sully probably is stronger than SoD Vanitas.
I do believe that The Fortellers should at bare minimum scale ... Due to The Dandelions accomplished fighting that Giant Demon Tide, and the Fortellers should be far stronger than the Dandelions.
Yes... I am saying the 6 Dandelions' Keyblade (Back then... Not now as they do not have the same level of power) scale > Giant Demon Tide which scales > All the Seekers of Darkness sans Xehanort.
I also have the Dandelions being far weaker than the Fortellers (and by extention the Protagonist from Union Chi, who was not present in thaf battle with Giant Demon Tide... It was the participants who died in thr war) and this is backed up by KH's unspoken (next villain/threat stronger than the last shonen logic)
Sully probably is stronger than SoD Vanitas.
I do believe that The Fortellers should at bare minimum scale ... Due to The Dandelions accomplished fighting that Giant Demon Tide, and the Fortellers should be far stronger than the Dandelions.
Yes... I am saying the 6 Dandelions' Keyblade (Back then... Not now as they do not have the same level of power) scale > Giant Demon Tide which scales > All the Seekers of Darkness sans Xehanort.
I also have the Dandelions being far weaker than the Fortellers (and by extention the Protagonist from Union Chi, who was not present in thaf battle with Giant Demon Tide... It was the participants who died in thr war) and this is backed up by KH's unspoken (next villain/threat stronger than the last shonen logic)
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Oops i forgot that. If it's considered, should she scale to Sora and co since the mmonster is capable of fighting them ?
Don't think he is especially stronger but he should be as strong as he is. Vanitas was attacked by surprise and wasn't probably thinking he had to face a serious threat outside of Sora so he didn't have to fight for real. Still, it's pretty impressive for him.
The Foretellers should scale to Luxu and since Luxu and Xigbar (who can fight Sora) are the same personn, they're probably around the same level. To me, each apprentice is more or less equal to another with the Master being stronger of course.
The next villains is likely going to be the Master to me.
Don't think he is especially stronger but he should be as strong as he is. Vanitas was attacked by surprise and wasn't probably thinking he had to face a serious threat outside of Sora so he didn't have to fight for real. Still, it's pretty impressive for him.
The Foretellers should scale to Luxu and since Luxu and Xigbar (who can fight Sora) are the same personn, they're probably around the same level. To me, each apprentice is more or less equal to another with the Master being stronger of course.
The next villains is likely going to be the Master to me.
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Bobiscan Yeah but what i mean is that even "weak" characters (or at least characters that aren't as strong as Sora individually) can match a Heartless by themselves. Rapunzel is capable of fighting Heartless but i don't think she can scale to Sora.
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There's no reason to scale any of the UX characters aside from Luxu at this point (since he's actually fought Sora). The Foretellers have done nothing so far. And not every Demon Tide is the same. The one in the Keyblade Graveyard was massive and required Sora and literally the help of thousands of keyblade wielders from the past to stop. There's no reason to use that one to scale as nobody was individually stronger than that aside from Xehanort. Riku and Sora were able to take down the one in the RoD, which was much smaller than the one in the Keyblade Graveyard. Aqua and Mickey also defeated one in 0.2.
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Bats16 Agreed. I talked about the Master because, since he's stronger than Luxu, he should scale too but so far, Luxu is the only apprentice who fought so far. Also, i think the same way for the Demon Tide since nearly every Guadrian of Light is outmatched. In fact, aprt fro Xehanort, i don't think the SoD themselves are especially equal. The Demon Tide in KG seemed to be "made" of several classic Demon Tide so it could be another type of monster. Anyway, i think it would be a good thing to add a key on Demon Tide profile.
Dark649 From what i can tell, Elsa, the Snow Monster, Sully and perhaps Mike are good candidates. Davy Jones is good too i think.
Dark649 From what i can tell, Elsa, the Snow Monster, Sully and perhaps Mike are good candidates. Davy Jones is good too i think.
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That was discussed a long time ago since there were profiles about KH Jack Skellington, Jafar, Hades and even Clayto all completely scaling to Sora. It was decided that the supports killing fodder heartess is a very poor feat and that the main characters supresses themselves when visiting another world and only the ones that broke the limitations of their story can scale such as Donald, Goofy, Mickey, Pete and Maleficent can scale, the others that are bound to their story does not scale [let alone to 3-A Sora] even if they can kill fodder heartless and have shown minor differences from their original story like Frozen, so they should scale to their own in-verse KH feats.ArkhamDC06 said:
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And honestly, it's kind of hard to scale off of Sora alone. The massive Demon Tide kills him and his friends, but then he comes back and fends it off with the help of thousands of past keyblade wielders. Fair enough, but then he can suddenly beat MX with the X-Blade with just the help of Donald and Goofy? X-Blade MX should be way way way above that Demon Tide and Sora literally needed thousands of keyblade wielders to help him defeat it yet he can take down X-Blade MX with just the assistance of Donald and Goofy.
I don't like it, but KH has never really been consistent with its power levels so it's whatever I guess.
I don't like it, but KH has never really been consistent with its power levels so it's whatever I guess.
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So basically that means Sully taking down Vanitas and Jones (iwho is actually very different in some ways that the average Disney villain of the game) physically overpowering Sora and co don't count ? Apart from that, i agree with the killing Heartless thing.
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