Kirby Speed and Abilities Concerns

[Eficiente]

@LuckyEmile I would prefer not to waste the time of others with this nonsense but do whatever you want.

@Somelatinguy If you want to believe that going from one universe to another via movement it's not possible, that the waves didn't consume parts of AD, and that Kirby and co. fought the Doomers of Return to Dream Land in Popstar then that's fantastic, but I don't care answering any of that. Make your own thread about it, all of those are things we already accepted.

 

[Somelatinguy]

"... and that Kirby and Co. fought the Doomers of Return to Dream Land in Pop Star...": The argument is that they fight them in AD, near the rifts leading to Pop Star.

Other than that, the argumentation was well unterstood.

Anyway, this "feat" accepted by some people but now proven false is ready to be deleted.

 

[Eficiente]

That is such a massive waste of time, this is useless information.

You have prove nothing, as always. Only your unreliability due to lack of logic.

 

[Somelatinguy]

As far as I remember, my reliability "was lost" when I "claimed that the planets are room-sized", but that was actually a misunderstanding .

What wasn't proven in this thread is actually the rebuttal to these arguments .

 

[Eficiente]

First make your own thread for the unrelated stuff.

 

[Somelatinguy]

I was just reminding everybody that my credibility was never really lost.

Well, since the final arguments are solid, this accepted but false "feat" is now ready to be removed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Somelatinguy. If we claim that you lost credibility due to things in the past, that's an ad hominem on us, as we're arguing against you, not the argument. So I kinda apologize for it. That said, you did claim that the verse was boulder level.

 

[Eficiente]

I was talking about his actions in this thread. He brought up the room-sized planets thing.

 

[Eficiente]

1b) That assumes the slimes consume the realm, but they only cover foreground objects, which are uncovered undamaged if they're pushed back or after they leave.

One example.

 

[Somelatinguy]

It's true that I made such a claim, and I use the argument that magic/RW power > physical power .

However, that would be part of another thread.

 

[LuckyEmile]

To bring things back to the topic, Efficiente, you said "If you want to believe that [...] Kirby and co. fought the Doomers of Return to Dream Land in Popstar then that's fantastic". Is this the all clear?

 

[Eficiente]

Do not mispronounce my username. Anyone can believe anything without giving evidence, that's what I meant. Idk nor care what's the point of talking about where the Sphere Doomer's fights take place.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Efi, you can't mispronounce something you type, and it's an easy mistake, and something you can barely notice. Calm down, dude. It's the exact opposite of a big deal. This isn't the first time you've made a deal over a misspelling.

 

[Eficiente]

I just said "Do not mispronounce my username".

 

[Somelatinguy]

1b) That assumes the slimes consume the realm, but they only cover foreground objects, which are uncovered undamaged if they're pushed back or after they leave.

One example.

The slimes cover the X and Y axes, but not also the Z axis.

If they're pushed away, foreground elements are uncovered undamaged.

They eventually leaving isn't directly seen, but since they don't destroy anything...

 

[LuckyEmile]

Sorry for the typo, it was a little mistake.

The point is (in response to not knowing, I know you said you don't care, but this needs to be cleared up at least for others, as this concerns the community rather than something personal) that the game tells us Kirby flew from Point A to Point B, but the wiki says Kirby flew from Point A to Point C. As there is more evidence for Point B being the destination (outright stated) instead of Point C (A recurring pattern appearing in the background that would tie the destination to an area, but not by necessity), we now have to reconsider that this interpretation goes against what has been set out by the primary source, and so we must act accordingly, hence why this CRT exists: it's a content revision thread because it has come to light content needs revising. The reason the location of the Grand Doomer's battle matters is because the gif you posted which shows the feat in question takes place directly before the Grand Doomer's battle. So if it says the Grand Doomer came to Popstar whilst (and only whilst) you are fighting the Grand Doomer, then you are battling the Grand Doomer on Popstar. And if you are battling the Grand Doomer on Popstar, then the gif shows Kirby going from one point on Popstar to another.

This conclusion does not ignore past events such as a background appearing in Another Dimension up until this point, but rather says that this reoccurence is not an indication that every time it appears you are in Another dimension. (Not to mention the box art shows this background behind the Lor Starcutter, something intimately tied to the Energy Sphere, which also appears with this background numerous time in-game, whilst in Popstar's sky). Whilst it may appear Kirby flies from the top of Nutty Noon, we see his landing point is a higher point on Nutty Noon, so it does not ignore his point of origin either.

Whilst you may argue "no new points were made", it is because no new points are needed to counter your viewpoint, as your viewpoint has aged in light of information from the primary source. This is why a CRT was made, to revise the content in light of a concrete counterargument.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, i still don't understand why this is an argument. I don't even know the feat being discussed.

 

[LuckyEmile]

@The real cal howard

Basically, on Warp Star's profile, it states "[The Warp Star] travelled from Nutty Noon to Another Dimension in 3 seconds." However, as brought up in the OP, the game actually tells you that the destination was not Another Dimension, but just another point in Nutty Noon, or at the very least somewhere on the same planet. As such, a CRT was made to remove this feat, as it basically is debunked by the game itself. However, Eficiente wants to defend their viewpoint, hence why there is back-and-forth disgareement.

Hope that helped...

 

[Eficiente]

• All Doomers fights are in AD as that's where they live.
• Kirby flies outside of the planet into space.
• Lands in a different place in the background that only AD has, and is known for.

We aren't going to ignore all this due to pause descriptions that also contradict other stuff about the Doomers, the main canon is what we see

 

[LuckyEmile]

• Do we fight Dark Matter in the Hyperzone in Kirby's Dreamland 2 because that is where it comes from? No. Just because we consistently fight Sphere Doomers in Another Dimension doesn't mean we should ignore cases where this doesn't happen. We are outright told they left their homeland because of the Energy Sphere, which is reason enough to break the trend. Patterns are susceptible to change.
• Nutty Noon's first level was already in the upper atmosphere, and later levels appeared to be in space. There is no reason for even higher levels of Nutty Noon not to be into space. We never explicitly see him leave the planet in that cutscene, only fly up with a space-like background behind him.
• This has been debunked so many times, I might as well play the "nothing new" card here.

The main canon is what we see, exactly. And the pause descriptions are the main canon. Nothing is contradicted here. A trend may have been broken, but a reason for this trend being broken is given to us, so the statements do not lack any validity. Considered only the second point can be argued credible, and it doesn't even contradict the pause description, we can ignore them, as there is no need to focus on untruths when we want to present what is true.

 

[Eficiente]

@Cal Would you like to comment on the matter? I admit I grew tired of it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No thanks. If I wanted to comment, I would've chipped in long ago. Can't really comment if I have no opinion.

 

[Somelatinguy]

May I at least have a response to this?

 

[Eficiente]

The waves were consuming parts of the dimension omnidirectionally.

 

[Somelatinguy]

This is how walls look like when occuping both the foreground and background.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Can someone explain to me how the Warp Star, a vehicle meant for traveling, scales to fighting speed? Genuinely curious with Kirby.

Yea, you're right as Kirby's reaction speed can scale to the speed of the Warp Star & Kirby needs to rely on his reaction speed to dodge and be able to hit his opponents, not necessary his combat speed (I mean, if an opponent charges towards Kirby and Kirby uses his combat speed, then he should be able to immediately stop them in their tracks in some way or another, otherwise it wouldn't exactly scale to his combat speed at all). However, Kirby's combat speed being considered MFTL+ is mainly backed up by feats in certain instances such as being able to block Meta Knight's attacks when he uses his flight speed to charge towards him and Kirby able to block them with his sword.

Other than that, for Kirby's movement speed, I don't really see any evidence of it being MFTL+ so far (if you have seen how fast Kirby can run compared to how fast enemies like Marx & Meta Knight can fly, then you will notice a huge difference between them) and at best it would be Relativistic after being shown to be able to resist the gravitational pull of a black hole from a close distance (actually escaping the pull from a black hole from a certain distance away from it instead of being at the entrance is 1/3 SoL) various of times (its usually created by enemy characters in the game) just for a few seconds but Kirby was still unable to escape it unless the black hole itself eventually disappears.

For every other speed category (besides Attack Speed, which varies depending on the item Kirby uses ofc) is MFTL+.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Can someone explain to me how the Warp Star, a vehicle meant for traveling, scales to fighting speed? Genuinely curious with Kirby.

It doesn't.

Kirby has no need to evade anything while piloting Warp Stars; they ca smash obstacles if flying fast enough .

In fact, he can be hit not very difficultly .

Also...

Him defeating the villains means he surpasses their perception speed and reaction speed.

However, he can't even match their movement speed without Warp Stars (Nightmare, Dark Mind...).

This means they can have Warp Star level movement speed only if traveling long distances or performing certain attacks... This is very common in video games.

 

[Eficiente]

@Magi Read Kirby's speed justification, or all of this thread.

@Somelatinguy "has no need to evade anything"=/=hasn't done so, the links you show literally have him dodging several things before being hit, nobody is just going to forget the instances where he dodges stuff without getting hit because of that. This is very misleading for your part, please be more considered in the future.

 

[Somelatinguy]

How fast does he fly in those instances when he dodges stuff without getting hit?

Additionally, what about this ?

 

[Eficiente]

The Warp Star has so many MFTL+ speed feats that ask that is redundant.

Is it related to this thread?

 

[Somelatinguy]

The in-space moments show movement-speed-only feats, as he doesn't actually evade anything...

... Because unlike in other fiction cases , Warp Stars can smash obstacles.

Has no need to evade anything = Never evades anything at top speed

 

[Eficiente]

You can believe that if you want, we will not. That is all I will say about it.

 

[AguilaR101]

No reason to assume his reaction speed is any lower when he is shown to perform manuevers while riding the warp star, we don't do this for Silver surfer when he uses his board or for Whis when he uses his staff. so we're not doing it here either

 

[Eficiente]

That is all I will say about it.

Ok just one thing, he does dodges stuff in space, that he needs to dodge due to being harmful, you (Somelatinguy) are just ignoring that because reasons.

 

[Eficiente]

other fiction cases

Holy sh*t that page is kinda aggressive, couldn't they elaborate that in a kindly way?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Eficiente

1. Idk why but I have a feeling that you probably did not read my first response thoroughly & carefully if you assumed I disagree with any of the speed categories (except for movement speed) for Kirby not being MFTL+ which would be false as I just mentioned that I clearly don't.

2. I read the Kirby speed justification already, it really lacks movement speed justifications being MFTL+ as it mainly focuses only on his reaction speed, combat speed, and flight speed via Warp Star. The best movement speed feats he has is outlasting the gravitational pull of a Black Hole created by several characters through running just for a few seconds which wouldn't make his movement speed any higher than Relativistic at best.

 

[Eficiente]

• How is chasing the MFTL+ Dark Hearts, which was also done many times, not movement speed? (<- in his profile)
• Marx, MK, the Mage-Sisters and Ribbon, simply for being playable characters, fly at comparable speeds than everyone else moving.
• Kirby was able to also chase Dark Nebula for most of a level, the same guy who could keap up with his Warp Star.

 

[Eficiente]

Also we kinda don't have that in our speed page, you may want to make a thread about it.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Eficiente

1. It is considered as movement speed but also unquantifiable as they "instantly" arrived to the Dark Hearts off-screen every time due to plot.

2. Sure, their flight speeds may be considered comparable to be each other but they were also holding back their full speed when flying due to game mechanics, so we shouldn't use that to scale to Kirby's running speed.

3. At the beginning, it shows that Dark Nebula can outspeed Kirby when he attempts to keep up with it by running, which is why it intentionally slowed down so Kirby can catch up & not lose track of him without the Warp Star (also because of plot).

 

[Eficiente]

Also we kinda don't have that in our speed page, you may want to make a thread about it.

^