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Kirby: Multi-Galaxy/Universal upgrade with super abilities

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LoudCloud

LoudCloud

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So I was thinking over the whole "Kirby defeating Magolor thing" and how it seems inconsistent with other Kirby stuff but then it hit me!

Before the fight you're given 5 Super Abilities to use (these are very powerful, upgraded versions of Kirby's copy abilities exclusive to Kirby's Return to Dreamland) and throughout the fight, enemies that give you those abilities pop up for you to swallow and use. So you're pretty much expected to use them. In fact, you HAVE to at some point in order to beat Magolor as the only way to break his shields and deal damage to him is by using them. There's also a point towards the end where you see them struggling one-on-one while Kirby uses the Super Sword ability.

In conclusion, this leads me to believe that while Kirby being Multi-Galaxy/Universe level is a big jump, his Super Abilities being that level isn't. In fact, they only appear in that very specific game, so they've only really been used for a boss of that caliber (therefore they have no inconsistencies or outliers in powerscaling with other final bosses).

Furthermore, this might explain why Kirby can beat Magolor despite the supposed power difference; It's not an outlier, it's simply Kirby using a powerup.
 
So these powerups are the reason Kirby could beat Magolor? Meaning he gets an Upgrade of around 3-B/3-A via these powerups only, right?

Seems fair as long as we have a separate key for them as they only appear in Return to Dreamland.
 
Kirby also needs to use the Ultra Sword to defeat the Grand Doomer, not that this adds much.

Also, while he needs the supposedly 3-B/3-A powerup to defeat Magolor/Magolor EX, Kirby fights and defeats Magolor Soul (which should be his strongest form) without the aid of any Super Abilities, kinda like how he needs Hypernova to defeat Queen Sectonia's last form in Kirby: Triple Deluxe's Story but defeats her stronger forms without it in The True Arena.
 
WarpingStar said:
Kirby also needs to use the Ultra Sword to defeat the Grand Doomer, not that this adds much.
Also, while he needs the supposedly 3-B/3-A powerup to defeat Magolor/Magolor EX, Kirby fights and defeats Magolor Soul (which should be his strongest form) without the aid of any Super Abilities, kinda like how he needs Hypernova to defeat Queen Sectonia's last form in Kirby: Triple Deluxe's Story but defeats her stronger forms without it in The True Arena.
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If anything that would just mean Magolor EX is more powerful than Magolor Soul, as EX could create shields that were fully resistant to non-SuperAbility Kirby, while Soul could be harmed normally.
 
LoudCloud said:
If anything that would just mean Magolor EX is more powerful than Magolor Soul, as EX could create shields that were fully resistant to non-SuperAbility Kirby, while Soul could be harmed normally.
Click to expand...
I find that extremely unlikely. Other than the shield, the only thing Magolor EX has over Magolor Soul is that he fires energy spheres faster. Soul's attacks are faster and stronger, not to mention he uses his own Super Abilities.
 
I believe the Super Abilities should get the upgrade. Magolor in general was so outlierish, but the Abilities were only used against his game, and one-shotted everything else. How does this affect Kirby's durability using Super Abilities?
 
The real cal howard said:
I believe the Super Abilities should get the upgrade. Magolor in general was so outlierish, but the Abilities were only used against his game, and one-shotted everything else. How does this affect Kirby's durability using Super Abilities?
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Well one of them (the Snow Bowl ability) transforms Kirby's body into a giant snowball and he then rams into things as his primary attack. So it should be pretty much the same seeing as the Snow Bowl uses his durability as a way to attack.
 
The real cal howard said:
I believe the Super Abilities should get the upgrade. Magolor in general was so outlierish, but the Abilities were only used against his game, and one-shotted everything else. How does this affect Kirby's durability using Super Abilities?
Click to expand...

I do not see how it would. The majority of the fight is done without them, and the part of the fight that has them is the part where Magolor attacks the least, with his attacks being nothing but energy sphere formations that match your current ability's attack range. (He also performs his normal attacks if you don't attack him while you have the chance, but most players don't get to see this.)

Plus, you're not given any Super Abilities before the fight at all. You don't even use five, you use three.
 
WarpingStar said:
LoudCloud said:
If anything that would just mean Magolor EX is more powerful than Magolor Soul, as EX could create shields that were fully resistant to non-SuperAbility Kirby, while Soul could be harmed normally.
Click to expand...
I find that extremely unlikely. Other than the shield, the only thing Magolor EX has over Magolor Soul is that he fires energy spheres faster. Soul's attacks are faster and stronger, not to mention he uses his own Super Abilities.
Click to expand...
Personally I see being faster/stronger as a more gameplay related thing that being completely immune to Kirby's attacks unless an ability is used. Or we could just say EX is more durable but Soul is more powerful?
 
LoudCloud said:
Personally I see being faster/stronger as a more gameplay related thing that being completely immune to Kirby's attacks unless an ability is used. Or we could just say EX is more durable but Soul is more powerful?
Click to expand...
The shield is more of an ability/spell than innate durability. We can assume Magolor Soul also could have used the shield but merely decided not to do so, since he appears to have all of Magolor EX's abilities, but stronger.
 
WarpingStar said:
LoudCloud said:
Personally I see being faster/stronger as a more gameplay related thing that being completely immune to Kirby's attacks unless an ability is used. Or we could just say EX is more durable but Soul is more powerful?
Click to expand...
The shield is more of an ability/spell than innate durability. We can assume Magolor Soul also could have used the shield but merely decided not to do so, since he appears to have all of Magolor EX's abilities, but stronger.
Click to expand...
So I guess Kirby defeating Magolor is still an outlier. But the Super Abilitiy's level of power isn't.
 
I can agree with this. Kirby's super abilities should be scaled to Magalor. He'd at least be multi galaxy level, with a possible universe level.

I don't even know why they were left unknown in the first place.
 
Will Hypernova also be affected by this upgrade? Sure, it is not scaled off Magolor since it's not from Return to Dream Land, but it kinda is Triple Deluxe's "Super Ability". Other than it vaguely being referred to as a black hole/Big Bang in the Japanese version, Hypernova is said to miraculously increase Kirby's inhaling power. It also technically one-shots enemies and mid-bosses, making quick work of the first boss in that game when you refight it in one of the later stages.
 
We need more staff members to comment on this before any upgrades can take place.
 
That's been Debunked. So Kirby probably shouldn't be Multi-Galaxy because he's barely shown it. I love Kirby but he probably shouldn't be upgraded. That's just me.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
@Hyper Anon we aren't upgrading kirby. Just his super weapons. Kirby's durability won't be changed at all...
Click to expand...
Well seeing as one of the Super Abilities you can use on Magolor is the Snow Bowl, which turns Kirby into a giant snowball that rolls into Magolor, I'd say his durability with the Super Abilities would be around Magolor's level.
 
I'm thinking this might be similar to Celestia controlling the Sun.

I.E. You kill Magolor and the dimension is destroyed but the dimension was there as a passive effect. After all while the Super Abilities boost AP, they do not boost Durability.
 
The supposed "durability" of the Snow Bowl ability comes from the layer of snow created by it. Like Magolor's shield, it's more of a spell effect thing than innate durability. You can see how in the giant snowball form, Kirby can roll over lava with no issues whereas Kirby himself (even with the Super Ability) still cannot make contact with that hazard.
 
If you envelop yourself with an electric aura, you will be able to tackle enemies more effectively and inflict more damage, but that does not truly increase your durability. I suppose this analogy also relates to Kirby's Snow Bowl. Not durability, but the sheer attack boost also acts as a defense in some sort of external, passive effect as it was already said.

I also do not think Super Abilities increase durability. If it seemed like I was arguing otherwise before, it was not my intention.
 
WarpingStar said:
If you envelop yourself with an electric aura, you will be able to tackle enemies more effectively and inflict more damage, but that does not truly increase your durability. I suppose this analogy also relates to Kirby's Snow Bowl. Not durability, but the sheer attack boost also acts as a defense in some sort of external, passive effect as it was already said.
I also do not think Super Abilities increase durability. If it seemed like I was arguing otherwise before, it was not my intention.
Click to expand...
I'm sure however, that in a fight, Kirby could use the Snow Bowl ability to overcome durability. So it might be misleading to not note it in the profile? Not sure.
 
It also goes with the Ultra Sword as Kirby didn't break his arms doing strikes. Along with Grand Hammer. So yeah, tier 3 durability.
 
This seems interesting. The Super Abilities are, after all, massive buffs to Kirby.

Besides, even Magolor destroying that universe could not necessarily mean Kirby needs SUCH a high buff to AP. You could think of it like Master Crown releasing a blast with all its power after the one that possesses it is defeated (I don't remember if the artifact is destroyed). Perhaps Master Crown is itself 3-A, but Magolor was just a reality warping 3-B or even 3-C. Think on a nuclear reactor: Detonating all that fuel can reach 7-B, when not 7-A, but the energy production is often barely 9-A.
 
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