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The Master Crown is Stronger than You Think | Upgrading 2-C Kirby Characters

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So we all know a while back when the 2-C revisions came in and Kirby got this pretty cool 2-C rating. What if I told you the 2-C rating was way higher into the tier than thought of


The Current Ratings


So our current ratings have Post-RTDL Kirby at 4-A, likely 2-C. He’s around 16 universes into the tier and Void Termina (and to an extent Galacta Knight) scale 4x this (since it took the combined power of 4 allies to beat Void Termina)

After looking around, there are probably far more universes than what meets the eye, and I potential way to get a flat out 2-C rating instead of likely 2-C



Justifying How Magolor was going to destroy all of Another Dimension:


Some of the pretty obvious examples we can go for are the twitter posts stating that Another Dimension was collapsing. It’s a pretty straight forward point for this one




There might have been more posts but that’s the one I could find


There’s also the fact that the Dimensional Wall has completely no sign of stopping. It was destroyed after Kirby beat the Doomers but since it stopped early on, there’s no seeing how far it would’ve gone. It’s safe to say it was going to affect each dimension in it’s entirety, since it would keep moving onwards. Rating will vary depending on what is agreed with in the end



The Size of Another Dimension:


So there are way more dimensions Magolor could’ve affected than just the 16.

Vortexes

You know those spider web vortex thingies you find in practically every dimension? Yea, those lead to other universes



1:08

It should be noted that one of these vortexes are in Forgotten Land when Kirby gets sent from Popstar to the New World. In the Doomer Worlds, these vortexes are shown sucking up planets, which shows these vortexes naturally behave like pathways like done in FL.




Considering every dimension has it’s own space-time, it’s safe to say the vortexes all lead to different universes. This is backed up by the fact that the final dimension leads to more universes, with the vortexes being the natural pathways




With this reasoning, given how every dimension has several of these, with each going to different universes, there are probably countless different universes possible in the cosmology. Each dimension always leads to a different one to put it short



If the faded out alternate planets in Another Dimension are anything to account for, like blurred Halcandra, this could potentially signal that other universes are being passed by. This is also somewhat shown with the new remake showing spheres around clearer planets. Me being someone with too much time, I counted a majority of the planets (didn’t get through them all) but there are at least over 40 different possible dimensions you fly by. These could easily be dismissed as planets flying around but it’s not too far flung that these could be alternate universes (given there are other Halcandra like planets visible)



The Minimum and Maximum Number of Universes

Minimum:
Just to get a few numbers down, here’s every known universe linked to Another Dimension


Main Universe
Magolors Universe
15 Doomer Dimensions
The one Kirby fought Magolor in
Likely Magolor Race EX
Dimensions I, II, III, and IV
Final Dimension
The Forgotten Land
3 to possibly 57 Treasure Roads (Vortexes shown in every treasure road here. Unknown whether each treasure road is separate or linked to one vortex The later ones have some mysterious dark webs leading to dark globs. Could mean something)


Adding these up is around 25 to 82 known universes alone, not even counting the other vortexes, which are a whole other can of worms. If the alternate planets are agreed as universes, add the exact amount of alternate planets to whichever one that contains a minimum proposal.

Maximum:

Considering how there are so many vortexes in each and every universe, including Kirby’s and each vortex leading to different dimensions, I’d consider this an easy countless 2-B cosmology.


With this all out of the way, here are the proposals:

Proposal 1

- 2-C Rating will be flat out, no likelys

- Scaling to Minimum # (25 to 82 universes into 2-C for each Star Ally, 100 to 328 for Void Termina)

- Vortexes don’t lead to other universes

- Magolor affects the entirety of AD

- Deciding number of Treasure Road vortexes needs to be determined

Proposal 2

- 2-B is flat out

- Scaling to Maximum # is used (Everyone is 2-B)

- Vortexes do lead to other universes

- Magolor Destroys AD

Proposal 3 and 4

- Proposal 3 keeps the same as Proposal 1, and 4 does the same with 2, except we keep the likely 2-C/2-B rating instead of making it flat out 2-C

Proposal 5:

- Everything is the same

- Magolor doesn’t destroy all of AD

- Vortexes don’t lead to other universes


Yea, this is a pretty big thread, read all you can
 
I'll comment later today and make a proper response but you can't scale up to higher universe count via multipliers on this wiki. Being 4x above a 16 universe feat for example is just 4x basline 16 universes
 
I'll comment later today and make a proper response but you can't scale up to higher universe count via multipliers on this wiki. Being 4x above a 16 universe feat for example is just 4x basline 16 universes
Why tho? Kirby and Allies had to combine their power (Star Allies Sparkler) to beat Void Termina. If you 2x a universal feat, wouldn’t you be 2-C?
 
Why tho? Kirby and Allies had to combine their power (Star Allies Sparkler) to beat Void Termina. If you 2x a universal feat, wouldn’t you be 2-C?
Nope, interdimensional distances being irregular n stuff, that's how it works here (sadly).
 
Nope, interdimensional distances being irregular n stuff, that's how it works here (sadly).
Tis very sad. I feel like it’d be pretty natural to assume that 2x a Low 2-C feat would be 2-C, since it would be double of what you could do to one universe. Tbh I forgor standards were weird here. We shall keep our own scaling separate ig

Lemme know your input for the thread
 
If it weren't for the inter-universe space crap (which I personally disagree with), Void Termina would already be 2-B for being hundreds of times above Magolor.

But as for the CRT itself, the 2-C stuff looks good, but I'm not sure whether you can prove that there are enough vortexes and/or dimensions/universes to prove 2-B.
 
If it weren't for the inter-universe space crap (which I personally disagree with), Void Termina would already be 2-B for being hundreds of times above Magolor.

But as for the CRT itself, the 2-C stuff looks good, but I'm not sure whether you can prove that there are enough vortexes and/or dimensions/universes to prove 2-B.
I mean, the 2-B point is pretty straightforward. The Final Dimension says that it leads to multiple dimensions. No reason not to assume other dimensions do this and there are also the web vortex shenanigans.

Which 2-C proposal you agree with? The flat out one or the likely 2-C one?
 
I mean, the 2-B point is pretty straightforward. The Final Dimension says that it leads to multiple dimensions. No reason not to assume other dimensions do this and there are also the web vortex shenanigans.
How do we know it would mean 1000+ universes though?
Which 2-C proposal you agree with? The flat out one or the likely 2-C one?
I mean, if we know for sure that they're dimensions, then flat out 2-C seems fine.
 
How do we know it would mean 1000+ universes though?

I mean, if we know for sure that they're dimensions, then flat out 2-C seems fine.
If each dimension has many vortexes, and each vortex leads to different dimension with more vortexes, it’d be a countless amount since the amount would build one after another with no stopping point

You input is counted
 
If each dimension has many vortexes, and each vortex leads to different dimension with more vortexes, it’d be a countless amount since the amount would build one after another with no stopping point
So you think the total number of universes would be innumerable?
 
Tbh i kinda disagree. The universes we use are shown to be part of AD while the other ones aren't. I might agree on boosting it from 15-16 to 19-20 via the extra dimensions but otherwise I see no proof that dimensions not contained in AD were to be destroyed. Additionally, treasure roads ≠ AD without evidence and they have 0 celestial bodies so they are unknown in size and unusable. Also when did magolor fight them in a separate dimension? And what's final dimension?
Either way best case scenario we get 25 universes and nothing more.
 
I mean, considering Void Termina threatened the entire multiverse, we could just use that to scale Void Termina level people to 2-B
 
Tbh i kinda disagree. The universes we use are shown to be part of AD while the other ones aren't. I might agree on boosting it from 15-16 to 19-20 via the extra dimensions but otherwise I see no proof that dimensions not contained in AD were to be destroyed. Additionally, treasure roads ≠ AD without evidence and they have 0 celestial bodies so they are unknown in size and unusable. Also when did magolor fight them in a separate dimension? And what's final dimension?
Either way best case scenario we get 25 universes and nothing more.
Covering the 25 I mentioned, a majority have some similar connection. The ones evidently shown to be in AD are Kirby’s Uni, Magolor’s Uni, 15 Doomer Dimensions, Magolor Race EX Dimension, Dimensions I - IV + Final Dimension.

FL was mentioned above that the pathway from Kirby’s to FL showed the same vortexes as AD, which is where the Vortexes lead to universes point came from (since dimensions in AD are universes)

Treasure Roads also have this vortex and later Treasure Roads possess dark globs similar to the brighter ones in the Heroes in Another Dimension background

Magolor fight happened in the area between dimensions. I forgot that it was. This may further support 2-B since he was at a point where he could’ve affected numerous dimensions outside the Doomer’s.

Final Dimension is the dimension you fight Corrupt Hyness and The Three Mage Sisters in
 
holy shit 2-B kirby, please be valid

also, some people on the death battle wiki have been calling kirby 2-A because theres a statement saying void termina contains infinite possibilities, i dont think this really means anything im just making sure theres nothing to this statement
 
holy shit 2-B kirby, please be valid

also, some people on the death battle wiki have been calling kirby 2-A because theres a statement saying void termina contains infinite possibilities, i dont think this really means anything im just making sure theres nothing to this statement
I presume you agree with 2-B

That really doesn’t. It’s only stated that it’s the origin of soul, heart, mind , chaos and possibilities. Could be something but 100% nothing AP wise
 
I mean, considering Void Termina threatened the entire multiverse, we could just use that to scale Void Termina level people to 2-B
Threatening is nothing. If he threatened the entirety of a 2-A multiverse then that's one thing but otherwise it can be easily over time.

Covering the 25 I mentioned, a majority have some similar connection. The ones evidently shown to be in AD are Kirby’s Uni, Magolor’s Uni, 15 Doomer Dimensions, Magolor Race EX Dimension, Dimensions I - IV + Final Dimension.
I don't see how Kirby's verse is part of AD. It is a universe connected through AD but unlike the doomer dimensions it doesn't have AD backgrounds and is never affected by the destruction wave.
Magolor's race is dubious and we never see it affected either.
Same for Magolor's dimension, it is connected, not in.
The rest are ok.
FL was mentioned above that the pathway from Kirby’s to FL showed the same vortexes as AD, which is where the Vortexes lead to universes point came from (since dimensions in AD are universes)
No matter. If there's no statement then there's no evidence and if there are no celestial bodies there is no tier 4-3 structure.
Treasure Roads also have this vortex and later Treasure Roads possess dark globs similar to the brighter ones in the Heroes in Another Dimension background
Irrelevant here
Magolor fight happened in the area between dimensions. I forgot that it was. This may further support 2-B since he was at a point where he could’ve affected numerous dimensions outside the Doomer’s.
Doesn't matter
Final Dimension is the dimension you fight Corrupt Hyness and The Three Mage Sisters in
Ok
 
I mean, isn’t it that void termina literally IS the multiverse? Wasnt he the creator of everything who’s omnipresent and exists everywhere and was going to destroy everything
 
Threatening is nothing. If he threatened the entirety of a 2-A multiverse then that's one thing but otherwise it can be easily over time.


I don't see how Kirby's verse is part of AD. It is a universe connected through AD but unlike the doomer dimensions it doesn't have AD backgrounds and is never affected by the destruction wave.
Magolor's race is dubious and we never see it affected either.
Same for Magolor's dimension, it is connected, not in.
The rest are ok.

No matter. If there's no statement then there's no evidence and if there are no celestial bodies there is no tier 4-3 structure.

Irrelevant here

Doesn't matter

Ok
There’s really no difference between being connected to AD and being within AD, because they are all within AD and connected to it anyways. It doesn’t have to have something in every part of the area. Shows AD stuff here tho. Keep in mind Magolor’s space wave was stopped early by Kirby beating the Doomers. There’s no reason it wouldn’t have traveled there because it’s already connected both naturally and by Magolor’s portal which it almost reached.

Whole point here being that wave would've consumed all of AD. It doesn’t matter if the wave didn’t reach it because it was stopped beforehand.

Magolor’s dimension would’ve been affected too. The wave was stated and shown to eventually collapse all of AD had it not been stopped.


Literally no reason for these to be irrelevant. Space between dimensions counts the fact that the wave could’ve affected numerous other dimensions, that lead to other dimensions. It’s basically a giant web. If it affects one universe, that has several vortexes branching out to different universes, that branch out to even more. This wave would endlessly expand throughout until it fully consumed AD. Treasure Roads possess AD constructs, like vortexes and space blobs
 
I mean, isn’t it that void termina literally IS the multiverse? Wasnt he the creator of everything who’s omnipresent and exists everywhere and was going to destroy everything
No, not at all. He’s just the origin of a whole bunch of things and has a variant in most universes
 
I'll respond properly tommorow but there's still no evidence that treasure road is AD. Unless you have explicit proof, you cannot prove that they are AD
 
I'll respond properly tommorow but there's still no evidence that treasure road is AD. Unless you have explicit proof, you cannot prove that they are AD
I already have given my proof. It possesses AD structures
 
I already have given my proof. It possesses AD structures
That ain't enough proof and just having similar structures means nothing. It's literally called a different name. It's also clearly different in its entirety, being powered up by the fragments inside of it and thus existing. Otherwise it has no stars, galaxies, nebula ect. and instead has no correlation with AD what so ever.
 
I disagree with the current justification anyways. The collapse it's referring to is specifically talking about the levels you visit throughout RtDL that have the wave that's consuming the dimension, which happens in many more places throughout the game and shows you the wave was happening before Magolor did anything with the Crown. And we have no proof the Master Crown is responsible for this wave explicitly iirc. And Magolor doesn't even die in canon.

For me it's much more logical to assume that AD was just unstable and always in a state of collapsing given this wave being everywhere not to mention it's over time anyways. Given the chaos of the realm I think it makes sense, too. The statement being interpreted as "Oh yeah AD totally fully collapsed when you beat Magolor" to me comes off as stretching the truth to validate an argument. It's referring to the map, which we visibly see is a recreation of the areas of AD you go through during RtDL that collapse before any Master Crown or Magolor shenanigans.

But whatever. I know I'm just talking to a wall here and it doesn't matter.
 
I disagree with the current justification anyways. The collapse it's referring to is specifically talking about the levels you visit throughout RtDL that have the wave that's consuming the dimension, which happens in many more places throughout the game and shows you the wave was happening before Magolor did anything with the Crown. And we have no proof the Master Crown is responsible for this wave explicitly iirc. And Magolor doesn't even die in canon.

For me it's much more logical to assume that AD was just unstable and always in a state of collapsing given this wave being everywhere not to mention it's over time anyways. Given the chaos of the realm I think it makes sense, too. The statement being interpreted as "Oh yeah AD totally fully collapsed when you beat Magolor" to me comes off as stretching the truth to validate an argument. It's referring to the map, which we visibly see is a recreation of the areas of AD you go through during RtDL that collapse before any Master Crown or Magolor shenanigans.

But whatever. I know I'm just talking to a wall here and it doesn't matter.
That’s your own headcanon I suppose. It’s not like AD coincidentally decides to fall apart in a place with a being of infinite power and destroy 16 dimensions. Quite literally after his death, space starts tearing apart and getting consumed. Idk what to say here. Unless you have genuine proof AD is an unstable dimension and randomly collapses, then I have nothing to say
 
But it’s endlessly recursive, every universe contains portals to other universes which contain portals to other universes on and on forever, wouldn’t that be infinite
 
But it’s endlessly recursive, every universe contains portals to other universes which contain portals to other universes on and on forever, wouldn’t that be infinite
No. The difference between an infinite number and a finite number is quite literally infinite. AD is just universe upon universe upon universe, with no known end point, thus countless. An Infinite sized space is never ending, rather than an interminable end point. There is a really big difference between an unknown end point and a endless endpoint.
 
Is there any reason to believe either countless 2-B, the portals go on for an uncountable but still finite number of universes, or 2-A, the portals go on forever, over the other? cause if not would 2-A deserve a “possibly”, something like “2-B, Possibly 2-A” (assuming anything above 2-C even gets accepted)
 
No reason to believe either that they do end or that they don’t over the other, there may be an end, but we don’t know that, they appear to go on infinitely, but there’s no actual proof they do, so, unless I’m missing something, both are equally possible
 
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