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Kingdom Hearts: Re:Minder of the Concepts
- Thread starter Bobsican
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I'm still not seeing how Abstract Existence is legitimate.
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So, concept manip got accepted?
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"Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars." (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Abstract_Existence)
Hearts are of a non-physical nature and the essence of whatever has them which is in this case everything. Essences can be viewed as of an abstract nature regardless of whether or not they suffice the standards for concepts this wiki uses. Kingdom Hearts is the heart of all worlds. Is there still something missing for Abstract Existence?
Hearts are of a non-physical nature and the essence of whatever has them which is in this case everything. Essences can be viewed as of an abstract nature regardless of whether or not they suffice the standards for concepts this wiki uses. Kingdom Hearts is the heart of all worlds. Is there still something missing for Abstract Existence?
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Commenting here since this isn't going anywhere. Kingdom Hearts is the culmination of all hearts in existence on a universal scale, everything in existence has a heart. If that's suddenly not enough, Kingdom Hearts is constantly referred to as light itself do to being made up of all hearts.
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Same.DarkDragonMedeus said:
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@Matt Give an actual refute. I literally just explained why the True Kingdom Hearts is abstract since it wasn't being explained well.
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It is dependent on evidence; we never gave Nonexistent Physiology to a characters just because they are made of some form of darkness.PlozAlcachaz said:
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I will say I feel the same.Matthew Schroeder said:
Based on the wiki's Conceptual Manipulation page, hearts would be Non-Qualifying Concepts so they are abstract; so, Kingdom Hearts is made of hearts which are Non-Qualifying Concepts, I don't see why Kingdom Heart would be asbtract.
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@Elizhaa
This is not dependent on hearts qualifying as concepts. Kingdom Hearts is the heart of all worlds which makes it of an universal scope. With worlds existing in the Realm of Darkness, the Realm of Sleep and the Datascape it would even go beyond being of an universal scope.
This is not dependent on hearts qualifying as concepts. Kingdom Hearts is the heart of all worlds which makes it of an universal scope. With worlds existing in the Realm of Darkness, the Realm of Sleep and the Datascape it would even go beyond being of an universal scope.
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I'll give better statements. It's stated here all hearts that make up existence come together to create Kingdom Hearts. Nomura states that everything that makes up a world, from the oceans to trees make up the heart of a single world, where all worlds that have hearts contribute to Kingdom hearts:
"I - In the Kingdom Hearts (hereon KH) series so far, two kinds of "Kingdom Hearts" have appeared, the "heart of worlds" and the "heart of people". Can you please explain their makeup?"
"I think of "all life has heart" as the most basic premise of KH. The heart of worlds was a great heart that gathered everything that formed those worlds: the natural things such as the trees in the forests, the oceans and rivers, the flowers and such. The heart of people, as it is called, was the collected hearts of the humans and animals and such that lived in those worlds. A Kingdom Hearts is considered to be an aggregation of the originally invisible "proofs of life" known as hearts."
KH3 further backs this up about Kingdom Hearts, along with the Ansem and Xehanort Reports, and another statement from Nomura
"I - In the Kingdom Hearts (hereon KH) series so far, two kinds of "Kingdom Hearts" have appeared, the "heart of worlds" and the "heart of people". Can you please explain their makeup?"
"I think of "all life has heart" as the most basic premise of KH. The heart of worlds was a great heart that gathered everything that formed those worlds: the natural things such as the trees in the forests, the oceans and rivers, the flowers and such. The heart of people, as it is called, was the collected hearts of the humans and animals and such that lived in those worlds. A Kingdom Hearts is considered to be an aggregation of the originally invisible "proofs of life" known as hearts."
KH3 further backs this up about Kingdom Hearts, along with the Ansem and Xehanort Reports, and another statement from Nomura
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I don't think that the idea that "Everything that exists possesses a Heart" is enough to qualify as abstract existence. That basically just sounds more like theologies similar to the likes of Shintoism; in which it's believed that rocks and trees have souls. Hearts could be intangible or Non-corporeal depending on context, but not seeing Abstract existence.
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That's a poor analogy, and wouldn't even debunk what I said. If a heart defines the very fundamentals of an object, the essence, all things in existence being defined by an individual heart that come to form an abstraction; Kingdom Hearts. No, I'm not pushing hearts being abstract, that point was dropped way before I came to the thread, it'd only be Kingdom Hearts. If that's not enough, Kingdom Hearts is constantly referred to as being the concept of light, especially from Xehanort, and so far no one in this thread has disagreed with light and darkness being abstract.
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That's still not enough. There are plenty of verses that mentioning some "Substance" as defining the existence of every character, but that doesn't make stuff like Ether or Psynergy abstract concepts. And Elizhaa said it as well, that those are not qualifying concepts.
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On a related note, should we remove conceptual manipulation from Sailor Moon for the same reasons? Just replace Heart with Star Seed and it's the same concept.
I have no regrets for those choice of words.
I have no regrets for those choice of words.
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You literally just missed what I said. They aren't souls, they aren't a substance of energy, without it you're non-existent. Executor was explaining that this type of thing would be abstract if the heart of all things was universal in scale, which everybody was fine with up until now.
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The only reason hearts aren't accepted as concepts is that they aren't universal in scale. Kingdom Hearts is made up of hearts and is quite undoubtedly universal in scale and beyond. You would need another reason for Kingdom Hearts not to qualify.DarkDragonMedeus said:
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I mean this seems like a straight forward downgrade from Mid-Godly to questionably combat applicable type 8 to me.
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