• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Kingdom Hearts: Re:Minder of the Concepts

Status
Not open for further replies.
"Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars." (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Abstract_Existence)

Hearts are of a non-physical nature and the essence of whatever has them which is in this case everything. Essences can be viewed as of an abstract nature regardless of whether or not they suffice the standards for concepts this wiki uses. Kingdom Hearts is the heart of all worlds. Is there still something missing for Abstract Existence?
 
Again, they do not embody entire concepts on an all-encompassing or at least universal scale. They do not qualify.
 
Antvasima said:
Again, they do not embody entire concepts on an all-encompassing or at least universal scale. They do not qualify.
I wasn't arguing for hearts to be concepts and I already know the things you wrote there. These were arguments in favor for Kingdom Hearts having Abstract Existence.
 
Okay. I am uncertain though. More staff input would be appreciated.
 
That is what the summary further up above and me contacting some staff members is for.
 
Commenting here since this isn't going anywhere. Kingdom Hearts is the culmination of all hearts in existence on a universal scale, everything in existence has a heart. If that's suddenly not enough, Kingdom Hearts is constantly referred to as light itself do to being made up of all hearts.
 
@Elizhaa

This is not dependent on hearts qualifying as concepts. Kingdom Hearts is the heart of all worlds which makes it of an universal scope. With worlds existing in the Realm of Darkness, the Realm of Sleep and the Datascape it would even go beyond being of an universal scope.
 
Nehz XZX said:
Abstract Existence for Kingdom Hearts (World)

Kingdom Hearts is the collective heart of the World: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538624028831907850/623252344779309071/unknown.png.

Kingdom Hearts is formed by gathering the hearts of all worlds: https://www.khwiki.com/Xehanort's_Report#Xehanort.27s_Report_III.

Every existence has a heart and the collection of all kinds of hearts results in Kingdom Hearts: https://imgur.com/a/uajMYOt.

"The heart of worlds was a great heart that gathered everything that formed those worlds: the natural things such as the trees in the forests, the oceans and rivers, the flowers and such. A Kingdom Hearts is considered to be an aggregation of the originally invisible "proofs of life" known as hearts.": https://www.khwiki.com/Director's_Secret_Report_XIII#Part_1_-_ABOUT_THE_WORLD_OF_KINGDOM_HEARTS


Conceptual Manipulation for X-Blade and Keyblade

The X-Blade can be used to control Kingdom Hearts which is why Xehanort wanted it in the first place.

This video at 8:19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvMBFFH3aPw

The Guardians of Light were busy keeping Kingdom Hearts shut due to it being a bigger threat than Xehanort.

This video at 12:13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vozdC4HlFs.

Sora and the others close Kingdom Hearts after they defeated Xehanort.


Elizhaa suggested the possibility of the instance of the Guardians of Light affecting Kingdom Hearts being a case of Non-Physical Interaction but this isn't the case since they weren't affecting Kingdom Hearts in a physical manner.

TriforcePower1 wrote that Kingdom Hearts would have Incorporeality due to being made of hearts but he didn't give me an answer after I posted in response the link about Kingdom Hearts being formed by gathering the hearts of all worlds.


Is that enough for a summary or did I miss something?
 
@Elizhaa

Do I understand you right in the sense that your comment is based on the scan and statement? What exactly is iffy?
 
I'll give better statements. It's stated here all hearts that make up existence come together to create Kingdom Hearts. Nomura states that everything that makes up a world, from the oceans to trees make up the heart of a single world, where all worlds that have hearts contribute to Kingdom hearts:

"I - In the Kingdom Hearts (hereon KH) series so far, two kinds of "Kingdom Hearts" have appeared, the "heart of worlds" and the "heart of people". Can you please explain their makeup?"

"I think of "all life has heart" as the most basic premise of KH. The heart of worlds was a great heart that gathered everything that formed those worlds: the natural things such as the trees in the forests, the oceans and rivers, the flowers and such. The heart of people, as it is called, was the collected hearts of the humans and animals and such that lived in those worlds. A Kingdom Hearts is considered to be an aggregation of the originally invisible "proofs of life" known as hearts."

KH3 further backs this up about Kingdom Hearts, along with the Ansem and Xehanort Reports, and another statement from Nomura
 
I don't think that the idea that "Everything that exists possesses a Heart" is enough to qualify as abstract existence. That basically just sounds more like theologies similar to the likes of Shintoism; in which it's believed that rocks and trees have souls. Hearts could be intangible or Non-corporeal depending on context, but not seeing Abstract existence.
 
That's a poor analogy, and wouldn't even debunk what I said. If a heart defines the very fundamentals of an object, the essence, all things in existence being defined by an individual heart that come to form an abstraction; Kingdom Hearts. No, I'm not pushing hearts being abstract, that point was dropped way before I came to the thread, it'd only be Kingdom Hearts. If that's not enough, Kingdom Hearts is constantly referred to as being the concept of light, especially from Xehanort, and so far no one in this thread has disagreed with light and darkness being abstract.
 
That's still not enough. There are plenty of verses that mentioning some "Substance" as defining the existence of every character, but that doesn't make stuff like Ether or Psynergy abstract concepts. And Elizhaa said it as well, that those are not qualifying concepts.
 
On a related note, should we remove conceptual manipulation from Sailor Moon for the same reasons? Just replace Heart with Star Seed and it's the same concept.

I have no regrets for those choice of words.
 
You literally just missed what I said. They aren't souls, they aren't a substance of energy, without it you're non-existent. Executor was explaining that this type of thing would be abstract if the heart of all things was universal in scale, which everybody was fine with up until now.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
That's still not enough. There are plenty of verses that mentioning some "Substance" as defining the existence of every character, but that doesn't make stuff like Ether or Psynergy abstract concepts. And Elizhaa said it as well, that those are not qualifying concepts.
The only reason hearts aren't accepted as concepts is that they aren't universal in scale. Kingdom Hearts is made up of hearts and is quite undoubtedly universal in scale and beyond. You would need another reason for Kingdom Hearts not to qualify.
 
That seems like a good point.
 
That seems like a good point.

That would need a separate thread since it doesn't have anything to do with what we are actually discussing here.
 
I would appreciate some input here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top