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Okay, but the existence of Stellar Inception supports the possibility of these being real stars since it confirms the existence of a technique that produces real stars and it's performed by the same character.
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Kingdom Hearts: KH and Zeus are a lie plus KH (World) upgrade
- Thread starter Bobsican
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Well, if you take into account that nothing unusual seems to have been observed about the night sky even though it has apparently been a "while" the results could be argued to be higher.
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Ok so now, everybody is downscaled to 6-C (or Low 6-B from the Ursula calculation proposed?) and only Sora, Xehanort, Kairir and amped-Mickey get a "possibly 5-A"? Another thing, since controlling marine energy is 6-C and Sora and co are stronger than Ursula, shouldn't they be "At least 6-C"?
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If accepted, this would lead to a Low 7-B feat I think.
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I am a hard disagree to removing 5-a as a whole.
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We'll see if Low 6-B is accepted or not. If anyone knows a calc group member who can evaluate Jason's calc, feel free to bring it to their attention.
As for the 5-A scaling, I'm still of the opinion that only Sora, Kairi, Mickey, and possibly Aqua should scale, and only with amps. Sora by himself consistently gets trounced by characters far weaker than post-absorption Xehanort, Kairi by herself couldn't overpower Xemnas when he kidnapped her and got stomped by Xehanort, and Mickey and Aqua were very obviously amped when they did their respective feats. Finally, it has yet to be proven that Xehanort absorbing the Seekers of Darkness is a linear boost.
As for the 5-A scaling, I'm still of the opinion that only Sora, Kairi, Mickey, and possibly Aqua should scale, and only with amps. Sora by himself consistently gets trounced by characters far weaker than post-absorption Xehanort, Kairi by herself couldn't overpower Xemnas when he kidnapped her and got stomped by Xehanort, and Mickey and Aqua were very obviously amped when they did their respective feats. Finally, it has yet to be proven that Xehanort absorbing the Seekers of Darkness is a linear boost.
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That's irrelevant since that's against Ventus Vanitas
The person in question that did the 5-A feat is a 13 fused Xehanort with an x-blade. Merely having an x-blade alone doesn't suddenly grant you 5-A.
No they cannot downscale, we've been over this, it's re-bringing up the argument we've already addressed.
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i am more than fine with this compromise
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Aqua shouldn't scale since she never fought the Xehanort in question.
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aqua can be discussed another time
i propose we move forward with the accepted 5-a edit
i propose we move forward with the accepted 5-a edit
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Young Xehanort notes "we made it" along with no given time frame and the feat was done off-screen, definitely not safe to use as a feat.
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Fair enough. She shattered an χ-blade that wasn't as strong as the one Xehanort wielded, not to mention it was itself wielded by Ventus-Vanitas who is definitely not as strong as Xehanort.
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so are we waiting on the ursula upscale?
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
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- Thread starter
- #256
Fine then to the first two parts
For the third one, not really, the issue was that the amp was unquantificable, and that's patched with it being displayed that Mickey got an amp of 12 times from his regular capabilities, and right before this the guardians of light were fighting the same Xehanorts, and Mickey alongside Sora's power did manage to overpower all of them at once. May I ask why amped Mickey is potentially 5-A again then?
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Where was it stated Mickey got a 12x amp? I was told that his amp put him on the same level as Sora but if that's not the case he can be dismissed from the characters that get possibly 5-A, simple enough.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
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Well, it's not stated directly, but it's clearly shown that Mickey with no amps could individually block and reflect a beam from one Xehanort at a time, with the amp Sora gave him we clearly see it expand enought to do the same to all the twelve Xehanorts doing the beam at once, hence why it would be a x12 multiplier, and it's consistent with the beam Mickey does with this power one shooting all of them.
And the amp does comes from Sora and all, but then we get on the issue of why doesn't "base" amp-less KHIII Sora scales to 5-A, or was he amped in this case? As I don't remember that being the case, which would support this scaling to Yozora, the Foretellers, etc.
And the amp does comes from Sora and all, but then we get on the issue of why doesn't "base" amp-less KHIII Sora scales to 5-A, or was he amped in this case? As I don't remember that being the case, which would support this scaling to Yozora, the Foretellers, etc.
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I'm fine with Yozora being scaled to 5-A Sora. Yozora fought Sora after he defeated Xehanort and he canonically put up an extremely tough fight (in fact the cutscene barely seems to acknowledge he lost, he simply stops fighting actually). The Foretellers on the other hand might not scale because we're talking about the defeating-Xehanort feat and none of them fought against Xehanort. Same for the Master, it can be assumed he is the most powerful character in the series (barring X-Blade Xehanort maybe) but we have nothing to put him on that tier.
As for Mickey, he was able to block the attack from all of Xehanort's vessels at the same time and win. So he can scale. And I don't think Aqua can scale, she fought Ventus-Vanitas but he was weaker than Xehanort.
As for Mickey, he was able to block the attack from all of Xehanort's vessels at the same time and win. So he can scale. And I don't think Aqua can scale, she fought Ventus-Vanitas but he was weaker than Xehanort.
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That's not how a 12x multiplier works at all.
I repeat, if the amp isn't enough for 5-A then he doesn't get it, simple enough.
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Yozora fought him post power of waking and with no amp from Sora he definitely doesn't get 5-A
That's not a 5-A feat for Mickey all at the same time =/= fused Xehanort.
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Except Post Power of Waking Sora was able to clash with Armored Xehanort along with Kairi and win and after he fought Xehanort merged with his vessels. Yozora fought him after that so I believe he can scale.
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That's not post power of waking Sora and that's an empowered Sora at that, not remotely the same case for Yozora.
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ok so.
are we sticking with xehanort, kairi, and sora
are we sticking with xehanort, kairi, and sora
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That's what we should stick with.
If people can stop trying to find new people to scale to possibly 5-A and needlessly prolonging this thread, that would be helpful.
If people can stop trying to find new people to scale to possibly 5-A and needlessly prolonging this thread, that would be helpful.
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We have to wait for Jason's calc to be evaluated and for "controls all the oceans" feats to be officially addressed, yeah. No one wants to go through the trouble of updating every profile just to have to do it again if the Low 6-B calc is decided against or if the aforementioned revision doesn't go as planned.
Actually, what is the basis for the assumption that got the Low 6-B result?
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After reading the new posts, I am inclined to agree with GiverOfThePeace that Mickey shouldn't scale to 5-A, even with his amp. We can't assume that all amps in the series are equal, especially when the fight against Xehanort with the χ-blade gives us an example of one amp that's larger than the others:
Sora, already empowered during the fight and having defeated Armored Xehanort with that empowerment, eventually unleashes the full power of his Keyblade against Xehanort. Xehanort, however, no-sells the attack, and then retaliates with his own full power, which Sora briefly holds back before it overwhelms him, one-shotting him. Donald and Goofy call out to Sora, who revives and draws even more power from his friendship with them. Then, with Trinity Limit, Sora once again unleashes the Keyblade's power, this time easily overpowering Xehanort's beam and one-shotting him in return.
I also agree that none of the Lost Masters should scale above Xehanort. We have absolutely nothing indicating how they compare to him, so we should preferably exclude them from the scaling chain for now.
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then we can proceed with the 5-a edit at least
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Hold up. This chart that's being used to place "controlling all the oceans" at 6-C specifies that it generates that much energy over the course of one year. There's no way we can use annual generation to scale such feats, IMO.
The global potential marine energy as outlined in the chart from the first link adds up to 57,100 TWh/y (terawatt-hours pet year; note that I assumed a median value of 44,000 TWH/y for wave energy). One TWh/y is approximately equal to 114.08 megawatts (source), so multiply that by 57,100 and we get ~6,513,968 megawatts, or 6.513968e+12 joules per second - just barely above baseline Low 7-C.
Now, this won't matter if Jason's Low 6-B end is accepted, but if it isn't, then we could be looking at a pretty big downgrade for Ursula.
The global potential marine energy as outlined in the chart from the first link adds up to 57,100 TWh/y (terawatt-hours pet year; note that I assumed a median value of 44,000 TWH/y for wave energy). One TWh/y is approximately equal to 114.08 megawatts (source), so multiply that by 57,100 and we get ~6,513,968 megawatts, or 6.513968e+12 joules per second - just barely above baseline Low 7-C.
Now, this won't matter if Jason's Low 6-B end is accepted, but if it isn't, then we could be looking at a pretty big downgrade for Ursula.
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just scale then from hercules
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Hercules tosses all titans (kh3)
vsbattles.fandom.com
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If you can explain why Ursula would downscale from Hercules, then sure.
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Ok then.
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So what, Sora, Xehanort and Kairi would be the only ones to scale?
Also, I agree with the Lost Masters. And like I said before, since Sora is supposed to be stronger than Ursula, shouldn't the tier be "At least 6-C" or "At least Low 6-B" if Low 6-B gets accepted?
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,625
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Oh yeah, right at the start of KH3D, when Sora and Riku lost most of their powers, they fought Ursula once again, and there's clearly an storm, seemingly caused by her, I wonder if this could be useful
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No I mean, use Hercules for the characters being scaled from Ursula instead
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Is that even the real Ursula, though? Given that she fades away after being defeated, as well as the fact that she's in her giant form but has no trident, I'd argue that it's an illusion. Even if it somehow really is Ursula, I don't really see any evidence that she was the cause of the storm.
Well, Sora loses his powers and much of his strength at the start of every game as established, and I do vaguely remember Hercules beating up the Titans in Kingdom Hearts 1, followed by Sora fighting him. I don't know if any of this happened, though, so if it didn't, feel free to dismiss this.
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"Is that even the real Ursula, though? Given that she fades away after being defeated, as well as the fact that she's in her giant form but has no trident, I'd argue that it's an illusion. Even if it somehow really is Ursula, I don't really see any evidence that she was the cause of the storm."
Apparently it was part of the Mark of Mastery exam in KH3D. They've traveled back to the time shortly before Destiny Islands' fall to darkness, so there is no way that this Ursula is the real one.
Apparently it was part of the Mark of Mastery exam in KH3D. They've traveled back to the time shortly before Destiny Islands' fall to darkness, so there is no way that this Ursula is the real one.
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You are correct in your assertion. Weakened sora scales to base hercules, who did the throw. It should easily scale to the rest of the warriors of light and to the organization
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@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy @KieranH10 @Migue79
Would any of you be willing to evaluate this calculation please?
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Hercules never fights the titans in KH 1, they're end game/secret bosses, he's seen beating and throwing the Rock Titan at the beginning of KH 2's introduction to Olympus.
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