Kingdom Hearts 3 Editing (SPOILERS)

[Bobsican]

The way he says his claims point into that each "world" is actually Low 2-C in size, otherwise 3-A

And there´s also his connection with his other selves, then again, leading into that it can be directly 2-C.

If anything, the rating can be upgraded to just "At least 3-A, likely 2-C"

 

[ArkhamDC06]

"At least 3-A, likely 2-C" seems fine. Though of course other upgrades need to be done.

 

[Bobsican]

Like what, for example?

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Scaling for Xehanort with True X-Blade and other characters like SoD. It's been a long time since this thread stared so maybe it was firmly established but i don't remember we came to an agreement for the others.

 

[Bobsican]

The added Sora abilities like Existence Erasure and Power Bestowal should scale to Axel and all Keyblade users since Riku erased Lexaeus, Axel burned Vexen and Roxas gave his keyblade to Xion.

One of the few respective agreements, prepare for some more quotes of the stuff above, by the way.

 

[Bobsican]

Not sure what you're rambling on about. Ant and Dark were agreeing with what Azathoth was saying and Azathoth has already agreed to reach a middle ground possibly 3-A rating for whoever else scales. You've literally not been refuting any of the other points said above either, you keep insinuating they don't scale when there has already been reasoning against what you solely used as reasoning and others provided when Arkham and I were talking it over with Azathoth.
General consensus by mods and users alike was what I told you we already concluded. Please stop trying to reverse the flow of the thread to something we already concluded, we're on a completely different part of just who it scales to outside of Sora, Donald, and Goofy. And tbh, it should scale to any end-game Organization or Seeker of Light.

With what we've gone over as well...

- Kingdom Hearts gets 3-A, likely higher

- Master Xehanort gets 3-A

- X-Blade should get a likely 3-A

- Sora, Donald, Goofy, Riku, King Mickey, Kairi, Axel/Lea, Aqua, Ventus, Terra, Roxas, Xion, Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Vanitas, Terranort, Saïx, Xigbar, Marluxia, Larxene, Luxord, and Repliku (if he even has a page) all get At least High 4-C, possibly 3-A

Just replace the tiers here to just "At least 3-A, likely 2-C", but as a separate key, of course.

This can be used to know which pages need editing regarding the tiers.

 

[Bobsican]

"Pre-Power of Waking" and "Post-Power of Waking" would be better?

Last important quote from this thread, respectively.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

So basicaly, KH, Xehanort and True XB should be "At least 3-A, likely 2-C" ?

Also, i agree with the last quote.

 

[Bobsican]

Yes.

And the last quote is for the "Post-Power of Waking" key, which Sora, Donald, Goofy and the other Keyblade Wielders of that one fight get.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

OK. Seems fine (though Xehanort should be noted with a key for 3-A/2-C).

Are there new powers and abilities you noticed and would add to some profiles ? Xheanort would have Light Manipulation, Flight (by himself), new Space Manipulation, Absorption (for absorbing his otherselves) and Acausality.

 

[Bobsican]

Acausality other than type 1?

And according to the past thread, Thunder spell and its variants´ wielders should get Durability Negation, as we get to know the voltage of it.



And all the Keyblade Masters (But Kairi for obvious reasons) at Sora´s side, Sora himself, Donald and Goofy should also get immortality type 8 via Kairi´s will (Aka, from where the causality manip and resrrection in Sora´s part comes from, which was accepted and applied already).

This is everything important left from the past thread.

 

[Imaginym]

Acausality other than type 1? And according to the past thread, Thunder spell and its variants´ wielders should get Durability Negation, as we get to know the voltage of it.



And all the Keyblade Masters (But Kairi for obvious reasons) at Sora´s side, Sora himself, Donald and Goofy should also get immortality type 8 via Kairi´s will (Aka, from where the causality manip and resrrection in Sora´s part comes from, which was accepted and applied already).

This is everything important left from the past thread.

I don't recall Type 8 being accepted, & even if it was, I'm pretty sure "All Keyblade wielders get Type 8 via Kairi's Will" is a flawed premise.

Can you link to the post(s) that you claim were the basis of the acceptance, please?

Sora had a form at all after he died & went to The Final World, because of Kairi, yes, but it was taking everything she had to hold him, & the others revived because of Sora abusing the Power of Waking to cross worlds using Hearts so he could revive everyone. And even then, he was conceptually scattered & needed that form to amass his scattered self, so it likely took some time.

If I recall what I read about being stated in the Ultimania, this abuse of the Power of Waking caused a reality rewrite, hence the 2nd fight with everyone at The Keyblade Graveyard.

So besides that there was no indication Kairi was involved in anyone else's revival AND part of it Sora was getting their hearts back from a Heartless. (Also, Chirithy mentioning that Sleep & Death touch, & that Sora's been to them before & nearly "wandered" into Death -presumably, in Dives to the Heart- Chirithy let those instances slide. But this time didn't seem to be an instance of Chirithy let slide Sora cross into the realm of death.)

 

[ArkhamDC06]

All Keyblade wielders seems odd. I only remember Sora being linked to her that hway (apart maybe from Donald and Goofy but even for them, it's a big maybe). And even then, if Imaginym's post is write, then it's not really immortality, more like some sort of Reality Warping type of thing.

 

[Imaginym]

All Keyblade wielders seems odd. I only remember Sora being linked to her that hway (apart maybe from Donald and Goofy but even for them, it's a big maybe). And even then, if Imaginym's post is write, then it's not really immortality, more like some sort of Reality Warping type of thing.

And even then, not intentional; Sora didn't know about the consequences, & it seemed to be more a consequence of him abusing the Power of Waking, so much so, that reality rewrote itself. Rather than Sora knowingly & willingly try to rewind time or something.

He was seemingly reviving the others, but other than the backlash from reality....

Thinking on it, another reason the Type 8 may not apply is Kairi is more connected to Sora than most other characters; Her Heart took safety deliberately in him for most of KH1, & she openly said she'd protect him.

Namine might get in on it, as she was a Star in The Final World, & IIRC, stated that as long as Kairi's still around, she'll still be. But Namine was a Star in TFW when she said that, so not exactly ideal.

During KH2, Roxas connected to Kairi's Heart, when, IIRC, Kairi was trying to reach out to Sora (As memories of him were returning to him with starting to awaken) & Roxas's Heart responded.

Given that he (& Namine) are a consequence of Kairi & Sora's Heart exiting Kairi's body, they MIGHT have a similar connection, but I think that's a stretch, especially when Kairi's vowed to protect Sora a lot, & barely knew Roxas existed before he came to fight Saix.

Lastly, Xion is largely made of Sora's memories of Kairi, but that's not the same connection as originating from Kairi's Heart exiting Sora's body, nor like being the Special Nobody of a Princess of Heart.

The biggest other stretch for a supernatural connection would be Aqua, as Aqua unintentionally, unknowingly bequeathed a Keyblade to a young Kairi during the events of BBS at Radiant Garden.

Sora SORT OF has Type 8 Immortality, but I'm not really sure about most others. And his was that he died, went to The Final World, & Kairi was able to ensure he had a form, despite lacking a body AND lacking a Heart at the time, which he used to gather his conceptually scattered self.

This & him returning to the real world MIGHT have been before the reality rewrite, but I'm not sure. Might need Ultimania consultation.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I'm not even sure about Sora's Immortality but it seems more fitting saying he is the only one to have this. ANd yeah Ultimaniais needed i think.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm not even sure about Sora's Immortality but it seems more fitting saying he is the only one to have this. ANd yeah Ultimaniais needed i think.

Sora being the only one with the immortality type 8 and thus the Causality Manip and resurrection seems good enought for me, as now that I remember, a powerful heartless took the hearts of everyone else.

Lastly, how do you know that star thing was Namine???

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Seems good to me.

Sora recognize her and she starts talking to him.

 

[Imaginym]

@Bobsican:

We know one of the Stars in The Final World is Namine because interacting it with triggers a cutscene where Sora & Namine talk, with even Namine's voice, & her saying it's Namine. It's missable, as you can proceed further in the story without triggering it.

Resurrection is also a bit dubious, IIRC. Sora did sort of revive himself, but only by having a form he wouldn't have without Kairi's help & reassembling his conceptually scattered himself over an unknown period of time.

The point being that Sora released his friend's Hearts to return to them, & it's unclear if he's responsible for them coming back to life, & if that includes them getting their bodies back or not. He didn't create new hearts or bodies for them.

So long as we work that out, I don't think I'm entirely opposed to Resurrection for Sora.

If I recall correctly, Young Xehanort said about Power of Waking:

"traversing hearts to reach worlds, not for traversing worlds to reach hearts," and that Sora using it as much as he does comes with a high price.

Sora went from world to world after the Lich to free his friend's hearts. But, he did seemingly use the Power of Waking to revive Kairi. Or it was the reality rewrite. Not entirely sure, so consulting the Ultimania against the cutscenes & dialogue may be important.

Other than Kairi, though, it's been used to wake Ventus from his sleep (Immediately after Ventus got his Heart back from Sora.) & by Riku at the end of the Mark of Mastery Exam to wake Sora, I believe; Learning it was why the test was taken, & proof he succeeded was why Riku passed but Sora didn't.

I'm also unsure if it counts as Causality Manipulation when Reality Rewrote itself. Again, should check the exact wording in the Ultimania about events.


(Also, this isn't a statement of opposition to the inclusion of information about Kairi giving Sora a form with which he reassembled himself in TFW, but useage of such an ability in Vs Matches MIGHT violate the Outside Influence clause of SBA:

"Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc. Exceptions are things like blessings, calling upon some higher entities power for a spell, summoning familiars to battle for them, having another character as equipment or more generally spoken the things which are listed on the profile as part of a characters own powers and abilities."

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Standard_Battle_Assumptions I'm not entirely sure, so if an expert about SBA wants to chime in on whether it's valid to use in VSBW, but it's not that important, as VS Battles aren't high priority, especially in a revision thread.)

 

[Bobsican]

@Bobsician:

"Bobsician"

Now I´m genuinely wondering from what that writing mistake happens almost as much as myself being nicknamed "Bob".

Anyways...

Sora is explicitly said to be responsible, as he had to beat the Lich to free the hearts of those that were captured by it, which is also why they didn´t just "die" or went to the Final World like him.

As for the body part, it appears their deaths were erased, which is why in the second attemp the dialogue and actions go exactly the same, were it not for that guy´s influence.

We also see that Kairi was the one that saved Sora, not the other way around.

In fact, somehow Kairi was the only one to not actually be destroyed unlike the rest.

And it isn´t reality warping as it also involves the time axis, meaning that the events were "retconned", you could say, leading into Causality Manip as how it was made, which is why they come back exactly back to the previous moment as if nothing happened, not even Sora remembered it, which means that he can´t take "experience" from events prior to his death (pointing out for Vs. Threads, which also includes the opponent(s))

Lastly, as we allow Mercurius to bring back Reinhard (as a type 8 example), I think it´s fine for Sora to have his type 8 in Vs. Threads, especially considering they can no longer be disabled for such.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

yeah so uh


is this ever gonna go through

 

[Bobsican]

Maybe when the admins finally bother to check the 10 last replies of this thread and comment on it or something.

 

[HST_Master]

Sora and co.'s resurrection would not be from Kairi at all. It'd be from the ability Auto Life and the Kupo Coin.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Hst.... Neither of those are considered to be canon abilities... Unless that is Sarcasm.

Secondly.... Would it be possible to scale the Fortellers &The Protagonist to this now....as well due to scaling from Ephemer & The New Dandelion Leaders (The 5 Keyblades) who were commanding the keyblades of the graveyard to give Sora the power to defeat that Giant Heartless... And it's obvious through KH:Chi the Fortellers are a lot stronger than this ... Or ?

 

[Dziga]

Holy shit it has been over 3 months since the game's release. What's keeping from any changes being made.

 

[HST_Master]

@Hst.... Neither of those are considered to be canon abilities... Unless that is Sarcasm.

Why wouldn't they be tho? Besides having separate implementation it's a available ability in all games. Not to mention other VG characters have resurrection for similar reasons like Sonic.

EDIT: I worded that wrong. What I mean is shouldn't it be considered like for other VG characters like Sonic? After all there's several abilities that are ignored for the story and only recently in DDD and 3 do they acknowledge them in story.(Mickey using Stopza and Ultima, Donald using Zettaflare, Sora and Riku using Nightmare's End).

 

[Bobsican]

Holy shit it has been over 3 months since the game's release. What's keeping from any changes being made.

User votation just shifting/forgetting about this, it seems.

 

[Bobsican]

EDIT: I worded that wrong. What I mean is shouldn't it be considered like for other VG characters like Sonic? After all there's several abilities that are ignored for the story and only recently in DDD and 3 do they acknowledge them in story.(Mickey using Stopza and Ultima, Donald using Zettaflare, Sora and Riku using Nightmare's End).

Unlike Sonic, KH is quite more plot-heavy, meaning that statements don´t just easily fall as game mechanics to my knowledge.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe somebody experienced could start a new thread that summarises all of the arguments, and then invite all of the knowledgeable members to take part?

 

[Bobsican]

Maybe somebody experienced could start a new thread that summarises all of the arguments, and then invite all of the knowledgeable members to take part?

Done, please close this thread while also linking here, thanks.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.