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Kimetsu no Yaiba Speed

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1. I don't know what that has to do with lightning being real.

2. To me it just looked like he aimed the lightning directly at Zenitsu and not the sword.

3. This is more likely Kaigaku saying he still has strength to move even after taking so much damage rather than something that has to do with his technique. But I do agree it causes burn scars.

I am pretty sure lightning being real or not has nothing to do with it being tier 8. So yeah not exactly sure if that's enough to prove it's real lightning. We really should get some staff or calc members to talk about whether or not this is considered real lightning.
 
1- Consistency, lightning attacks are considered to be especially fast.

2- Zenitsu had his sword forward toward the lightning, but either way it conducts through his body

3- Fair enough

You can read the VB policy on lightning feats here.

In short: Non-Cloud-to-Ground Lightning being real is dependent on it demonstrating a few properties of real lightning (such as flowing through conductive materials), and significantly less properties that contradicts real lightning. Non-natural real lightning attacks are assumed to be at the speed of natural lightning if it has an overall energy (some of it might be lost before it reaches target) of 1.6 billion Joules, which is low-end 8C attack potency.

By the way, there is a non-lightning speed feat that can easily be +MHS. Bisecting 10,000 flying fish in an instant.

Mitsuri Fish 1
Mitsuri Fish 2
Mitsuri Fish 3
 
Well if that's the case than Kaigaku probably wouldn't qualify. Since he isn't really 8-C. Right now he would probably just heavily upscale from a 9-A but never reaching 8-C since the 9-A boulder slash feat is still around 4x away from 8-C. And 1.6 billion joules is around 6x higher than Tanjirou's boulder slash. And we can't exactly upscale him that high without any proof.

Oh right Muichiro actually did that thing. You should probably get somebody to calc that. It could probably scale to the high tiers.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
No, the Swamp Demon trio visibly react and were already trying to sink into their portal by the time Tanjirou cut their arm.

Try to quote correctly: "This speed of the spin and attack is way too strong". What is way too strong is the technique.

Somewhat comparable due to being outpaced by her (in other words he isn't massively slower than her, nor blitzable by her). He got an attack in and was going to land an other; skill was enough to close the speed gap. Half the speed of sound is a low-ball, and it leads to the conclusion that Tanjirou is hypersonic.

You demonstrated that you are misunderstand the terminology, so I'll wait for the staff. What upgrades real lightning to the speed of natural lightning per wiki policy is having 8C energy, and Sekido qualifies due to having likely higher AP than 9A (due to Lower Moons being much more powerful than BoS Tanjirou, and Higher Moons like Sekido being much more powerful than Lower Moons; AP calcs are still pending).

Not sure why you requested something easily found, but OK. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

You think that syllogism constitutes is a valid argument......... No comment.

Having some properties of electricity = Having some properties of lightning. It is a natural progression of speed just like in any Shonen; more powerful characters are faster. Are you pretending to be unaware that the verse have staff-evaluated +MHS speed?
Click to expand...
They didn't react they're flinching from having their arms cut off

So Tanjirou says the speed of the spin and attack is strong how does that make it so he doesn't consider the attacks fast you keep arguing that this quote means technique when he is blatantly saying spin and attack have high speed

Most of the links there aren't working but the two links that are don't look like conductivity it's just the characters getting hit. Also how come Kaneoji can cut lightning and not suffer electrocution?

How is it a natural progression of speed? Are you implying just because top tiers are faster they have to be massively hypersonic? You also keep arguing that just because it has properties of natural electricity it's as fast as natural lightning and as I've said and you've agreed to not all electricity is lightning

The staff evaluated the calc and didn't look into the whether or not Kaigaku has real lightning or not
 
So M3X replied and yeah the current High Hypersonic calc that they scale to isn't usable. He originally made that calc under the assumption that Swamp Demon is comparable to Kyogai. So for now they should probably scale to Zenitsu's Hypersonic calc for now until the drum slash dodge has been calced.
 
I know I just came in randomly but I have been reading the manga as of recent, the problem with that calc is that it assume's the demon's reaction to be transonic as well, I think the supersonic+ version is the more correct 1.
 
I mean he should still scale to some extent. Also I'm pretty sure the drum dodge would be higher so we just need to wait for somebody to calc that.
 
Yeah the drum demon should supersonic tbh his basic attacks are speed of sound and he can beat his drums faster to make it harder plus he didn't have much trouble reacting to Tanjirou's initial attack
 
Like I said before. No comment. I really don't know the standards for lightning on the site. So I'm not exactly sure if the current evidence is enough to prove that Kaigaku's lightning is real.
 
Here are the standards

Most electricity in fiction is not real lightning. Often it is supernatural in nature, and is possibly not even electricity. Therefore lightning is only accepted as such under certain circumstances.

Cloud-to-ground lightning is considered to be real lightning, as long there is nothing suggesting otherwise.

Lightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real. Some examples of favourable properties are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis. Additionally, for calculations that involve lightning speed, one has to consider that the speed of real electricity can change due to a variety of factors, but for practical purposes, concerning attacks that are electricity-based, if they display power comparable to that of natural lightning, they should be considered to move at a comparable speed. It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 1.6 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify.
 
ShadowWhoWalks already posted the standards I'm just not sure if Sekido or Kaigaku's lightning fits the standards.
 
I dont think that the lightning can be considered real. The moves only emulate the elements but do not actually create them.
 
Sekido and Kaigaku actually use lightning since they are demons but the main question is whether or not it has enough properties of lightning to be considered lightning speed. But from what Insert said they probably don't have enough evidence.
 
So did anybody calc the drum dodge yet? Also we're gonna need to post all the lightning evidence and have a staff evaluate whether or not it's as fast as real lightning. Right now I'm leaning towards it's not as fast.
 
Here are all the pages with lightning or its effects:

  • 1- Moves in a pattern similar to how electricity moves in air (at least some of the staff consider this a supporting evidence)
  • 2- Conductive through the body of people
  • 3- Causes muscles to spasm and immobilizes target as long as it is flowing
  • 4- Can be insulated against
  • 5- Creates branching lichtenberg pattern scars (like with people who have been struck with natural lightning)
(1 & 2 & 3)

(1 & 2 & 3)

(1 & 2 & 3)

(1 & 2 & 3)

(1 & 2 & 3)

(1 & 2 & 3)

(4)

(4)

(1 & 2 & 3 & 4)

(1)

(2 & 3)

(1)

(1)

(1)

(1)

(1)

(1)

(1)

(1 & 2 & 5)

(1 & 5)

(5)

(5)

(5)

(5)

(5)

(5)

So we know that Blood Demon Arts lightning/electricity displays a few characteristics of real-world lightning/electricity. The only counter argument I've seen so far is that the lightning didn't conduct through Mitsuri's sword when she cut it, but Demon Slayers have extended attack range, so cutting something with their sword doesn't mean that what they have cut has touched the sword.

This is one example where Tanjirou cuts a demon's arm from long range

So once we know that Blood Demon Arts lightning/electricity has properties similar to real-world lightning/electricity, there is the question of whether it moves as fast as natural cloud-to-ground lightning. The only criteria for this is whether the demons can produce 1.6 billion Joules of energy, or low-end 8C.

There are two calcs currently awaiting approval that Upper Moon Demons are capable of producing more than the required energy. I also predict that Doma's Rime-Water Lily Bodhisattva in Chapter 162 is 7C, but we are still awaiting calculation for that.

There is an accepted low-end calc that a casual Muichiro can move at MHS speed.

So a strong case can be made.
 
First of all the Zenitsu KE calc is based on the Massively Hypersonic+ calc that is currently being debated. Also I've seen similar KE calc get rejected so it's probably not gonna get accepted. Second Zou Hakuten's calc only scales to himself and UM3 and up. Kaigaku and Sekido don't scale. Third Doma also doesn't scale to Kaigaku or Sekido so even if the calc does turn out to be 7-C it won't scale to them. So yeah Kaigaku and Sekido technically don't have any proof of being 8-C they are just really high end 9-A.
 
Kaigaku doesn't create burn scars he explicitly stated it cracks skin and blood is seen to flow from the cracks, insulation is iffy since it just shows the demon is immune to his own technique

Muichiro's calc assumes 1000 slashes for some reason when it could've been 100 slashes or something
 
KE calcs get evaluated case by case.

You kind of concede the argument in regards to characters being able to dodge and cut as fast as natural lightning... Zou Hakuten's lightning is a stronger version of Sekido's lightning, and the successful attempts at dodging and cutting lightning comes from Mitsuri against Zou Hakuten's lightning.

Do you disagree with the "Likely Higher" designation then?

You should read more carefully. The same panel says that the attack burns his flesh.

The objection was already addressed in the comment of the calc.
 
Yeah I know KE calcs get evaluated case by case. But Zenitsu's calc is probably not gonna get accepted if Flashy Flash's KE calc which was literally him slashing his sword while moving at Relativistic speed didn't get accepted.

I was only answering your 8-C thing. I never talked about the lightning since I'm not an expert about lightning feats.

Likely higher just means they are probably higher but they don't have enough proof of being higher. They aren't 8-C because they don't have proof of being over 4x stronger than Post-Demon Slayer Training Tanjiro. All we know is they are massively stronger than that Tanjiro to an unknown degree. Hence the likely higher.
 
The Flashy Flash KE calc was actually initially accepted, but it was later rejected due to a couple of reasons, one is that the weight of Flashy Flash's whole body is used in the KE equation instead of the weight of his sword, and because the method to calc his speed was controversal and later replaced (the new method ended up giving him a upgrade from sub relativstic to relativstic, and his AP got higher through scaling to other characters).

Just saying, the lightning feat criteria are fulfilled.

The terminology of "Atleast X, likely higher" means that there is a good likelihood the character has a higher tier than X, but the degree is unknown.

Akaza for example has: "At least Small Building level, likely higher". Are you saying that it should just be "Small Building level" instead, or maybe something like "Small Building level, higher with Obliteration Style"?
 
It was initially accepted because of the old standards I think. The new standard pretty much says it's not usable. Also even if Zenitsu's calc gets accepted it is probably gonna be an outlier. 8-B+ is just way too high when the next best feat performed by Zou Hakuten who is stronger than him is just High 8-C+.

I don't know about the lightning criteria so don't ask me. I'm just saying you can't just assume a character that heavily upscales from a 9-A (343839420 joules) can suddenly be 8-C (1600000000 joules) without proof. 4.65333497829x is a pretty big difference.
 
The criteria aren't fulfilled, Sekido has shown potentially 8C electricity with nothing supporting it to be as fast as natural lightning, it hasn't displayed conductivity only that it can harm people, it's lightning shaped as well but it doesn't produce any notable heat, characters shrug it off and it leaves no lingering effects afterwards

Kaigaku is even worse since his ability fulfils less criteria and only has shape and conductivity. The cracks he creates are just that cracks as he states not lighting burns especially since the the cracks bleed.
 
I disagree with the breaths are real elements, neither do i think the elements of the demons can be used as real elements.
 
Very iffy,

the speed of kny is certainly above the speed of sound thanks to the fight with the drum demon, above that is kinda tricky,

im especially not fond of the calc that just gives the swamp demons FTE speed and than makes tanjiro get hypersonic+ combat speed and mach50 reaction speed because of that,

this fight happened even before the drum demon arc that made a big deal out of the mach 1 speed that the chars barely kept up against.

The next calc that makes chars MHS is also iffy because they just assume the breaths or elements created by demons to be like the real ones, well the lightning is real, in the sense it truly exists, but it can be magiclightning like the lightning created by lightning nature jutsus in naruto, so there is no saying how fast that makes it.

Tl;dr the very best speed we have for a solid baseline is mach 1 from the dum demon, than we can add "at least" on that and add "FTE to a mach 1 char" for the pillars and such but i dont think 2 calcs both being very fragile in their assumptions are enough to justify chars at HS or MHS scale.
 
Magiclightning, like Raiton Jutsu in Naruto and Force Lightning in Star Wars are considered to be at the average speed of ground-to-cloud natural lightning. This applies to lighting Jutsus as a whole and not just a few ones, even those that are weirdly shaped like a snake, because lightning Jutsus throughout the series occasionaly displayed characteristics similar to real-world electricity (for example, there is a scene where Sarada mentions that lightning Jutsu caused electrolysis, and thus allowing hydrogen to explode ), and the Force Lighting was accepted as analogous to real lightning based on the canon Star Wars novels mentioning that Force Lightning conducted through a ship and mentioning that it left branching scars.

Per wiki policy, if magiclightning displayed some characteristics similar to real electricity and is at 1.6 million joules of force, then it is considered to be at the average speed of cloud-to-ground lightning as long as there are no outliers. Zou Hakuten become more powerful by absorbing four demons, each significantly more powerful than 0.08 ton, so it is hard to argue that he is below 0.3 ton.

I believe that both Zenitsu calcs are solid. The Muichiro calc is based on low-ball assumptions; any reasonable debate about it should be on whether it is MHS+ speed or MHS speed, not that it is at least MHS speed.
 
Force lightning displayed conductivity, scaring, heat (I'm pretty sure a character smoked from it before) and more than enough energy, ration Jutsu have displayed conductivity, electrolysis, the required energy, the characters are MHS by statements and of course lightning like movements. Sekido has displayed lightning esque looks and Kaigaku has displayed conductivity and lightning shaped attacks that's less criteria than than your above stated examples.

Zhou Hakuten is baseline at most then he has no feats of stomping baselines and is just much stronger than .08 tons

Zenitsu assumes real lightning without enough criteria. Muichiro's Calc weirdly assumes 500-10000 slashes why not 100 or even less?
 
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