Kimetsu no Yaiba Speed

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Incorrect, the Swamp Demon is a lot more physically superior to a regular demon, as evidence by developing Blood Demon Arts. He also have the feat of only being outpaced by Nezuko in combat speed, and Nezuko kept up with Lower Moon candidates. All it takes for Tanjiro to be hypersonic is for the Swamp Demon to be half the speed of sound, which is a ridiculously low bar.

The image shows that the Drum Demon was beating his drums, which means that the two demons can survive the spatial manipulation and sound attack without getting incapacitated, and overwhelm the Drum Demon. If they are as slow as you are trying to argue they are, then they would simply pose no threat to the Drum Demon, even if they telepathically coordinate ganging up on him.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Again the Swamp demon has no combat speed feats saying he was outpaced by Nezuko as proof means nothing. The flash could outpace me in a fight that doesn't mean I'm lightspeed.

They survived because demons can't kill each other and according to the kid only one showed up and started arguing with the drum demon so it's very likely the other came and attacked him from behind it doesn't take much coordination to do that

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Bump

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Is there any reason for the swamp demon's combat speed to scale to Tanjirou

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Scales to demons (with seemingly no Blood Demon Art) capable of combat against the Drum Demon, yet were blitzed by Inosuke and Zenitsu. Wasn't blitzed by Tanjirou or Nezuko who are comparable to Lower Moon candidates.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

The demons injured his back clearly a surprise attack, heck by saying Tanjiro can blitz supposedly SoS level demons why did he consider the drum demon's attacks so fast?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The Drum Demon was explicitly seen attacking them both, so they scale to him regardless of speculations about how the battle ended. Tanjiro considered the speed of room rotation to be fast, and had trouble moving properly to dodge due to his injuries.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

They don't scale to him he literally cannot kill them and it was a 2v1 he also wouldn't alter the room too much so the boy won't escape. Tanjirou stated the attack speed and rotation was fast also if he has hypersonic combat speed he wouldn't consider the room's rotation fast at all

Proof he was attacked from behind

Tanjirou comments on the speed of the attack and spin

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Whether he can kill them or not is irrelevant. If they can fight him they scale to him. Assuming the boy is even within the proximity of the spatial manipulation, altering the room would make it harder for him to escape.

Tanjirou said that the speed of the spin + claw attack = a strong technique.

Proof that your argument ignores context:

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

It is relevant if the demon is fighting two people he can't kill and one injured his back then they don't scale

Tanjirou said the speed of The spin and attack is fast to him no matter how you slice it if he has hypersonic combat speed the spin shouldn't be fast

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

If you acknowledge that the demons are fast enough to injure him and pose a threat, then that is scaling. How the fight ended doesn't matter.

Tanjirou talked about the speed of the spin, not the speed of the attack. However, he did say that the attack is dangerous combined with his injury and the speed of the spin.

if he has hypersonic combat speed the spin shouldn't be fast

Why is that the case? What is the speed of the spin specifically?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

A surprise attack doesn't constitute scaling both demons are inferior to the drum demon who is only speed of sound.

In the scan I showed he literally says "so fast the speed of the spin and attack is way strong!" both where fast to him.

The speed of the spin is the same as the drum attacks it's why Tanjiro considers both very fast but can still react to them

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Speculation about a surprise attack that might have happened later on is irrelevant. He started the fight aware of them, and the demons are fast enough to injure him and pose a threat.

The quote can also be interpreted as "speed of the spin combined with the attack is strong", there is no justification to assume they have the same speed. The scan I showed brought more context where only the speed of rotation is considered noteworthy, where Tanjirou says: "The rotational speed!! Not good... The technique is strong! And the claw attacks have increased from 3 to 5..."

In which case: claw attack + high speed of rotation = strong technique.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

We literally see a panel of one demon attacking his back

You're utilizing a different scan while ignoring my own? Tanjiro said speed of the rotation and attack is strong there's no other way to interpret that assuming Tanjirou said "the rotation and with this attack is strong" that's one thing but his statement made it very clear that he conisders the claw attack just as fast

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

An attack to the back is not the same as a surprise attack, and a surprise attack is unlikely considering that the Drum Demon is aware of them. If we assume a surprise attack happened later on, it wouldn't matter since the demons started to fight for sometime without a surprise attack.

"Strong" can be a syonymous for "High" which is what you are claiming, in which case both the spinning and claw attack have a high speed. It could also be refeering to the overall strength of the technique, made from claw attack + high speed spatial manipulation. The scan I posted provided context and proved that the second proposition is the case; so why do you want to use an ambigious statement over a definitive one?

Also, do you acknowledge that, accoding to the calculation, if the Swamp Demon was at half the speed of sound, Tanjirou would be hypersonic?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yes they started a fight a 2v1 fight in which the drum demon can only slow them down not defeat them if they could fight him evenly why didn't they tear off a drum from the front? It was specifically one from behind which indicates he was caught off guard the kid's statement doesn't even say monsters showed up he says just one demon showed up which makes it even more likely he was caught off guard

The first statement was definitive he said rotation and attack are fast you're the one trying to interpret it differently by using a scene in which the drum demon started beating his movement drums rapidly.

The swamp demon doesn't scale to Tanjirou. The swamp demon isn't fte if it was a normal human wouldn't be capable of perceiving it or Tanjirou. Tanjirou had trouble with speed of sound attacks and he completely outpaced the swamp demon so no it can't be fte

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

They started a free-for-all fight because every one wanted to eat the marechi blood kid for themselves. Getting the drum from behind is convenient for a number of reasons, none of them indicate that the Drum Demon was unaware of their presence. The kid said that a monster stopped the Drum Demon from eating him, but it is factual that that three demons fought each other. They got into an argument and a fight, and the two demons pose a threat to the Drum Demon and didn't get blitzed by him, so they scale to him.

To be clear, are you claiming that the large horned demon did something like this?

Claiming the statement is definitive is dishonest, as what the word "strong" refeers to is ambigious (the speed or technique), and the meaning is confirmed by the panel I posted. Why are you utilizing a different scan while ignoring my own?

I asked you if you acknowledge that Tanjiro is hypersonic if the Swamp Demon is at half the speed of sound according to the calculation. Please answer the question. We can discuss what you think the Swamp Demon speed is afterward.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

And yet the kid's statement says one showed up which means the other could've come from behind even in the picture shown it makes it look like a 2v1 and the fact the drum demon got taken from behind shows they don't scale and as I've said even if they get blitzed it means nothing he can't actually put them down only slow them

That's hilarious.

How is it not definitive he said both these things are fast. Didn't really ignore your panel I addressed it Tanjirou being awed by the speed of rotation and then noting right after that the claw attacks have become more difficult doesn't take away from the fact he referred to the claw attack as fast and as you've said strong can mean high.

My stance is pretty obvious from the fact I'm still arguing about its speed and said it doesn't scale to Tanjirou and the demon isn't and I've provided scans of a normal human being able to perceive the demon

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Now another thing if Sekido's lightning has no property that makes it comparable to real lightning and Kaigaku's lightning has nothing in common with real lighting why are the characters massively hypersonic?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

And yet the kid's statement says one showed up which means the other could've come from behind even in the picture shown it makes it look like a 2v1 and the fact the drum demon got taken from behind shows they don't scale and as I've said even if they get blitzed it means nothing he can't actually put them down only slow them

Yes, one showed up and saved him from being eaten (with the intention of being the one to do the eating). Your theory is directly refuted in the panel, since it shows the Drum Demon completely aware of the two demons and attacking them (even directly facing the one who plucked the drum on the back).

You might as well claim that if a couple of demons overwhelm an Upper Moon, then they don't scale to him and that the Upper Moon can easily speed blitzes them at any time.

How is it not definitive he said both these things are fast. Didn't really ignore your panel I addressed it Tanjirou being awed by the speed of rotation and then noting right after that the claw attacks have become more difficult doesn't take away from the fact he referred to the claw attack as fast and as you've said strong can mean high. My stance is pretty obvious from the fact I'm still arguing about its speed and said it doesn't scale to Tanjirou and the demon isn't and I've provided scans of a normal human being able to perceive the Demon

In correct, he said "This speed of the spin and attack is way too strong", and since the statement is ambigious, it is by definition not definitive and it would be dishonest to claim so (arguing about the most likely meaning is different). It could mean:

1- The speed is strong (ignore the grammar)

2- The technique is strong (in which case, the speed of the attack is up in the air)

As I have demonstrated, Tanjirou reiterated the same statement in a less ambiguous way, and the second proposition is proven correct.

My stance is pretty obvious from the fact I'm still arguing about its speed and said it doesn't scale to Tanjirou and the demon isn't and I've provided scans of a normal human being able to perceive the Demon

People perceive the flash and superman all the time for various reasons. Since you tried to claim Tanjirou is below subsonic, might as well claim the Flash and Superman are below subsonic.

Now another thing if Sekido's lightning has no property that makes it comparable to real lightning and Kaigaku's lightning has nothing in common with real lighting why are the characters massively hypersonic?

How so? Were staff and others blind when they concluded that Kaigaku's lightning show properties of real lightning?

If I show a single property the lightnings have in common with real lightning, does this mean that your claim is refuted?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Again still doesn't disprove that the drum demon was attacked from behind and the other two demon are inferior to him. If those demons are speed of sound and Inosuke can blitz them then the drum demon should be a joke to Tanjirou

How is it ambiguous he literally says the speed of these two things is strong in what way is it ambiguous the spin started making his eyes spin because the drum demon was beating more rapidly.

If normal humans with absolutely no training are perceiving them and they have no other feats or statements to back them the yes they aren't speed of sound literally all the swamp demon has is reaction time feats of him not even successfully dodging Tanjirou he still suffered damage each time

People can be wrong and make mistakes dude and Kaigaku's Lightning has shown no properties comparable to lightning. Sekido's lighting has nothing that suggests it isn't normal electricity.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Again still doesn't disprove that the drum demon was attacked from behind and the other two demon are inferior to him. If those demons are speed of sound and Inosuke can blitz them then the drum demon should be a joke to Tanjirou

In Man of Steel, Superman ended the fight by snapping Zod's neck from behind. We should ignore the fact that they fought for some time and say that they don't scale to each other, and that one might be able to effortlessly blitz the other.

Tanjirou spotted various openings even with the spatial manipulation, however his injury stopped him from just rushing the Drum Demon.

How is it ambiguous he literally says the speed of these two things is strong in what way is it ambiguous the spin started making his eyes spin because the drum demon was beating more rapidly.

It is ambiguous by definition due to being open to more than one interpretation. As I have demonstrated with evidence, it says that the speed of one thing (spin of the room) is high, and that when combined with the claw attack the technique is strong.

If normal humans with absolutely no training are perceiving them and they have no other feats or statements to back them the yes they aren't speed of sound literally all the swamp demon has is reaction time feats of him not even successfully dodging Tanjirou he still suffered damage each time

So you are saying that normal humans seeing Superman and Flash for various reasons are, by definition, anti-feats and that we have the weight-out the inconsistencies?

Didn't the Swamp Demon literally fight Nezuko, who herself fought Lower Moon candidates?

People can be wrong and make mistakes dude and Kaigaku's Lightning has shown no properties comparable to lightning. Sekido's lighting has nothing that suggests it isn't normal electricity.

Then explain how staff among others can plausibly make this alleged mistake. You imply that there is something misleading that can easily fool people, but then you beg the question and claim that there are obviously no properties comparable to lightning.

Can you explain the difference between "real lightning" and "normal electricity"?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Tanjirou didn't spot various openings with the drum demon, Superman vs Zod is a bad example since we actually see the fight and they're comparable all we know about the drum demon and the others is one showed up fought the drum demon and another showed up and then he suffered an injury to his back

The swamp demon was regularly outpaced by Tanjirou, couldn't properly dodge his attacks and was perceived by a normal human mid attack Swamp demon isn't fte


That isn't what was stated he said the speed of spin and attack is strong nothing about technique was stated then he only refers to the attacks as having strong speed which means high.

Please don't selectively read my comment I said if Superman and Flash lack feats and statements and are perceived by completely normal humans with no training then yes they aren't fte. Nezuko was completely overwhelming him until he predicted her basic movements she even displayed she attacks faster than him previously

Why are you asking me to prove why people can make a mistake? I said people can make mistakes and can be wrong me proving how they made a mistake has nothing to do with my points

Real electricity and lightning aren't the same there are several criteria to prove electricity is lighting and most of those criteria are electricity in fiction not every electric shock is lighting according to the rules of this wiki if you want to contest that and make them the same make a crt but until then Sekido doesn't display enough traits for us to assume it's lighting

 

[Peter1129]

To be honest I'm also kinda wondering where transonic demons came from. Common demon slayers have kinda been treated as fodder I don't recall them ever moving faster than sound. The only one that was shown to be faster than sound or dodging attacks as fast as sound are the main trio. But they are considered much stronger than the common demon slayers. No comment on the lightning stuff though.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The swamp demon was regularly outpaced by Tanjirou, couldn't properly dodge his attacks and was perceived by a normal human mid attack Swamp demon isn't fte

So now you are saying that the Swamp Demon's combat speed is subsonic by scaling to Tanjirou (outpaced).

Tanjirou suspected that the Swamp Demon was trying to lure him away from the civilians, and considering that the Swamp Demon is not above surprise attacks, this is very plausible.

That isn't what was stated he said the speed of spin and attack is strong nothing about technique was stated then he only refers to the attacks as having strong speed which means high.

I have already shown evidence that the strength refeers to the strength of the technique. Evidence is superior to assertions.

Please don't selectively read my comment I said if Superman and Flash lack feats and statements and are perceived by completely normal humans with no training then yes they aren't fte. Nezuko was completely overwhelming him until he predicted her basic movements she even displayed she attacks faster than him previously

Likewise Tanjirou being seen running on the rooftops is not a contradiction to him being able to move fte to normal humans, nor are fte characters needed to move at > normal eyesight at all times.

So your statement is refuted and the Swamp Demon does have additional speed feats, in particular being able to fight with Nezuko (who is comparable to Lower Moon candidates) without being blitzed even if he is slower.

Why are you asking me to prove why people can make a mistake? I said people can make mistakes and can be wrong me proving how they made a mistake has nothing to do with my points Real electricity and lightning aren't the same there are several criteria to prove electricity is lighting and most of those criteria are electricity in fiction not every electric shock is lighting according to the rules of this wiki if you want to contest that and make them the same make a crt but until then Sekido doesn't display enough traits for us to assume it's lighting
There is nothing controversial about the fact that people can make mistake, nor was this argued by anyone here. I am asking you what made people, including staff who came to evaluating the feat, think that Kaigaku's lightning is real lightning. I am not asking you to agree, I am asking you to play devil's advocate. Is Kaigaku's lightning being real lighting something that can easily fool people (if so, then why?), or is this something that is clear and obvious?

According to the rules of the wiki:

Many fictional characters make use of attacks or equipment that produces lightning or electricity.

They are mostly synonymous. Lighting is a flow of electric current through the air. If you acknowledge that Sekido's lightning displays properties of real electricity, then by definition he has displayed properties of real lightning.

Note that characters shooting real lightning/electricity doesn't mean that their lightning has as much energy or is as fast as natural lightning.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I misspoke it's more like blitzed Tanjirou even altered his technique while the demons were attacking and mutilated all their arms before they could attack

You didn't provide evidence you showed a scene of the demon beating his movement drums more intensely and Tanjirou reacting to that and it still doesn't take away from the fact he called the claw attack fast

The swamp demon was mid attack why wouldn't he move at his supposed fte speed. The swamp demon was blitzed Nezuko was beating him down until he predicted her movements and even then he still got hit while doing it

The wiki also states many electric attacks in fiction aren't real lightning

If you're conceding not all electricity is as fast as natural lightning you just conceded KNY isn't massively hypersonic

Nezuko beating the demon and him stating she's too fast

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

@Peter what is your stance on all this?

 

[Peter1129]

I'll ask M3X where he got transonic common demons from. And if there is no proof on transonic demons we will probably need somebody to calc Tanjiro dodging Kyogai's drum slashes which are Speed of Sound. I have no comment on the lightning stuff. You should probably post some images about the lighting and get some staff.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I talked to a staff member already and he said the criteria Sekido meets aren't enough he also said the swamp demon calc looks like calc stacking and probably shouldn't be used I can ask him to comment here though

 

[Peter1129]

I also asked M3X about the demon and demon slayer stuff. We'll probably need somebody to calc Tanjiro and Inosuke dodging Kyogai's drum if the current calc becomes unusable.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

That should be fine I can ask another calc group member or is M3X willing to do it?

 

[Peter1129]

Not sure but you should probably post it on the calc request thread first.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I've posted the request

 

[Peter1129]

Uhh you weren't supposed to make an entire thread for it. Your were supposed to post it here and wait for somebody to calc it. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3403260

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Whoops my bad

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I misspoke it's more like blitzed Tanjirou even altered his technique while the demons were attacking and mutilated all their arms before they could attack
You didn't provide evidence you showed a scene of the demon beating his movement drums more intensely and Tanjirou reacting to that and it still doesn't take away from the fact he called the claw attack fast

The swamp demon was mid attack why wouldn't he move at his supposed fte speed. The swamp demon was blitzed Nezuko was beating him down until he predicted her movements and even then he still got hit while doing it

A blitz is attacking before the opponent can react. Tanjirou was trying to incapicate (if not behead) them with his rushed attack, so if they dodged then it is not a blitz.

Tanjirou called the technique strong twice. "Strong" does not refer to the speed, but to the overall technique.

The Swamp Demon showed up from his portal. Tanjirou suspected the Swamp Demon is trying to lure him away from the civilians. If we assume he was attacking with disregard of his safety, then it can be a minor inconsistency.

Again, please read the definition of Speed Blitz, this is simply outpacing . He is slower than Nezuko and was not able to create his portal as a result, but he is somewhat comparable to her and Nezuko is comparable to Lower Moon candidates.

The wiki also states many electric attacks in fiction aren't real lightning If you're conceding not all electricity is as fast as natural lightning you just conceded KNY isn't massively hypersonic

And since you conceded that the attack has some properties of real electricity, then it has some properties of real lightning.

More non-sequitur. There is no contradiction in not believing all real lightning/electricity is as fast as natural lightning, and believing that Blood Demon Art lightning is as fast as natural lightning.

• 1- Not all real lightning in fiction is as fast as natural lightning
• 2- Blood Demon Arts in KnY shows properties of real lightning
• C: Blood Demon Arts lightning in KnY isn't as fast as natural lightning

I hope you acknowledge that this is an invalid argument.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Tanjirou sliced off their arms before they could react. Why would you decide that his statement was "the speed of the spin and attack are strong" what is so subjective about this? What makes him comparable to Nezuko he couldn't even get an attack in or even dodge he had to rely on predicting her moves cause she isn't a good fighter

And it still doesn't meet enough criteria to be considered Lightning I even talked to a staff member and he said it shouldn't be considered as fast as natural lightning also please link a panel of Sekido's lightning having conductive properties

Not really a non sequitur you argued that since it has properties of electricity it has properties of real lightning especially since it's a ridiculous jump in speed for the verse that isn't backed by anything

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

No, the Swamp Demon trio visibly react and were already trying to sink into their portal by the time Tanjirou cut their arm.

Try to quote correctly: "This speed of the spin and attack is way too strong". What is way too strong is the technique.

Somewhat comparable due to being outpaced by her (in other words he isn't massively slower than her, nor blitzable by her). He got an attack in and was going to land an other; skill was enough to close the speed gap. Half the speed of sound is a low-ball, and it leads to the conclusion that Tanjirou is hypersonic.

You demonstrated that you are misunderstand the terminology, so I'll wait for the staff. What upgrades real lightning to the speed of natural lightning per wiki policy is having 8C energy, and Sekido qualifies due to having likely higher AP than 9A (due to Lower Moons being much more powerful than BoS Tanjirou, and Higher Moons like Sekido being much more powerful than Lower Moons; AP calcs are still pending).

Not sure why you requested something easily found, but OK. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

You think that syllogism constitutes is a valid argument......... No comment.

Having some properties of electricity = Having some properties of lightning. It is a natural progression of speed just like in any Shonen; more powerful characters are faster. Are you pretending to be unaware that the verse have staff-evaluated +MHS speed?

 

[Peter1129]

To be fair for the current Massively Hypersonic+ calc the calc members only said the calc itself was fine. They don't know if the lightning attack itself is as fast as actual lightning or not. Nobody made a thread to discuss if it was as fast as actual lightning. And last time I checked the site has a pretty strict rule about lightning and light being real so yeah the concerns are actually kinda well-founded.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Some notes about Kaigaku's lightning (other than looking like one):

1- Dodging it is considered a top-tier speed feat

2- Conducts from Zenitsu's sword to the rest of his body

3- Causes branching (Lichtenberg figure) burn scars which means it flowed like real lightning inside Zenitsu's body, and Kaigaku believes it removes a person's strength to move.

So per policy, if the attack is above the 9A tier, then it should be considered as fast as natural lightning.