Kimetsu No Essay:Yes The Revision is that long

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Ok so I am Not excited to type this all out it’s a long one but it had to be done.
Also my first major revision thread I’m typing.

1.Lifting Strength ratings:
There are these lifting Strength Calcs.In Which Tanjiro gets rated as class 25 and Rengoku gets class K(120 Tons)alongside a class 100(90 Ton) Gyomei supporting feat.

How this should effect the stats
Here are the arm wrestling rankings tell me if my rankings are correct.

• Gyomei-Class K(The strongest pillar, ranks 1st in arm wrestling)
• Tengen-Class K(Superior to Rengoku in arm wrestling)
• Rengoku-Class K
• Sanemi-Class K(Interchangeable with Kyojuro making him comparable)
• Tomioka-Class K(Same as Sanemi)
• Kanroji-Class K(Same as Tomioka)
• Muichiro-Likely the same not sure on him.Maybe he’s class 25
• Iguro-The same
• Kocho-The same
• Tanjiro-Class 25
• Inosuke-Class 25(Comparable to Tanjiro, Pushed a rock of similar size)

Any issues here?

2.Potential Pre Pillar Rengoku key:
Let’s cut to the chase and go over the absolute minimum Rengoku would place.Going over the first mission.
First off, he can blitz and one shot the flute demon without much effort once it’s Flute Hax were ineffective.

He stated that Total concentration Constant was only the first step to becoming a Hashira.
Implying that Pre Pillar Rengoku being potentially above Post Zeroshiki Tanjiro even a decent amount of time before he became a pillar.

3.Zenitsu’s Scaling
Zenitsu should scale to Inosuke and Kanao

Starting off Zenitsu can withstand blows from Muzan which also injured Inosuke, he debatably takes the blow better as well.
Before you say Inosuke is weakened, so is Zenitsu,

Muzan also Considers both Kanao and Zenitsu at the same time pitiful he’s not individually pointing out one of their attacks as pitiful.Portraying they are at least in the same order of magnitude

Whereever Kanao and Inosuke place Zenitsu should scale.Not Hundreds of times weaker according to the current page.

4.Kokushibo’s Placing, Doma too

Kokushibo should have a possibly 8-A
Why, because Doma was weakened when he did his 70 ton feat and Kokushibo should be Superior to Doma.

Doma compliments Akaza’s strikes but it’s heavily Implied Kokushibo is immensely above Akaza to the point where he’s not anything to him.
He’s basically terrifying him and bossing Akaza around and scoffs at Akaza’s threat.

He was also really not surprised upon Akaza’s death too.

I also want to make the case for a possibly 8-A for Doma.
Doma said that the five clones he casually made are as powerful as him (and he was contemplating sending them to kill off the Pillars).If you really want to you can argue it’s a minor multiplier in comparison to his weakened state.We also must not forget how Weakened Doma was when he created the Ice sculpture.
He should get a possibly 8-A.

This wouldn’t be inconsistent at all Inosuke and Kanao are basically constantly getting blitzed by him.
Doma was also barely trying so it being a possibility should be fine.

5.Gyutaro Feat
The calc is here which gets Gyutaro at Large Building Level

Who would this scale to if it’s valid.
Anyone who scales to Gyutaro, UM5, Emotion Clones and Zou Hakuten
This would make Post Pillar Training Zenitsu and Marked Muichiro for Example High 8-C.

I feel this scales to a lot more characters like the Base Pillars but it’s a lot to list.

Edit:The calc isn’t complete yet but should be noted I will uncross it out once it is finished.
6.Tengen and Rui In the speed scaling

Rui should be quite simple he scales above the father spider demon, who can Blitz Inosuke to the point he couldn’t even react or see him
Therefor Rui’s general speed should be above Tanjiro’s reaction time.

Tengen will be more controversial.So it is stated Kanroji is “Even faster than Tengen.”It’s almost treated as a way of hyping her up as if Tengen was already impressive speed wise.

We had already seen other Hashira in action like Giyuu and Kyojuro so why hype up her speed like this, if Tengen is far slower than them all like the current pages imply.

It would be like if we said A well Trained MMA fighter can punch faster than a Toddler.It sounds underwhelming.

Logically Tengen should downscale and be Massively Hypersonic+, Gyutaro scales too.

I’m unsure on if Daki scales as she got blitzed by a casual Tengen albeit, she was not at full strength.

We can discuss that

7.Tanjiro’s Head(Yes I am Serious)

I’ve heard from people that Tanjiro’s head should get a “Higher” rating on AP(At best it should Get At least 8-C)or Dura since he can Borderline One shot Inosuke and Harmed Sanemi(I do know that it took a few seconds for Inosuke to pass out from the headbutt)

Not sure if this creates any scaling issues.Rui Slashing shallowly it might be an anti feat.

8.Zenitsu KE

This is based off a revision thread that seemingly was not decided upon.

So refering to what is mentioned here Zenitsu Relies on Speed to do damage.This makes him Eligible for KE.

When his cut was too shallow he chooses to amp his speed further.
I don’t think this should apply to Eos Zenitsu because results would be high to the point where it is an outlier.

Even if you assume he’s only 52 kg(He should be higher as he had a decent amount of muscle mass during Pillar Training)plugging his speed Into a KE calculator you get 2,4 Kilotons or Small Town level which is inconsistent.

We can use this for Post Demon slayer training Zenitsu though

Using the Mach 11 Calc here assuming same weight it would be 0,09 Tons of TNT consistent.Although Barely an upgrade

9.Shockwave Generation and Muzan range

I’m going to quote from the incomplete Shockwave CRT

“Every single Demon Hunter should have Shockwave Generation that extends their attack power. The characters that this ability scales to is, as I have said every Demon Hunter so: Inosuke Hashibira, Obanai Iguro, Shinobu Kocho, Tengen Uzui, Muichiro Tokito, Mitsuri Kanroji, Kokushibo, Yoriichi Tsugikuni, Tanjirou Kamado and the rest

Here are some scans that Breaths are actually shockwaves that boost attack power and extend attack range found by ShadowWhoWalks(Thanks!), and I'll quote him:

• 180 Degree slash from Tanjiro
• Tanjiro’s Whirlpool
• Tanjiro Cuts a tree with a shockwave It is more explicit in the anime which was supervised by the author.
• Tanjiro’s water wheel extends past his sword
• Inosuke’s Mad Cleave
• Clear Cut example of Extended range from Inosuke
• Muichiro's slash extending beyond his sword.and again and again.
• Tanjiro slicing a raised arm when prone on the ground
• Tanjiro cuts an arm from a distance
• Muichiro’s slashes are acknowledged to have good range, implying they extend further than normal
• Muichiro does some ranged slashes
• Mitsuri does extra-extended slashes.

Also, while the elements themselves might be illusionary, they imply increased attack range by themselves:”

10.Ability Additions
Basically everyone gets Battle Spirit (Overwhelming Aura that causes Fear Manipulation and Paralysis, and even internal bleeding). The databook says that Rengoku's powerful Battle Spirit overwhelms others, so this is the same as the aura Akaza sees and the overwhelming fear pressure characters keep mentioning.

Basically everyone gets Extrasensory Perception (Able to sense the presence of others and malicious intent). This is supported by Enmu being sneaky because Demon Slayers might sense his malevolence even when they are asleep, Lower Moons talking about sensing Muzan's aura, Muichiro sensing Nezuko's presence, and Muzan sensing the presence of Hashira.

All Demon Slayers get Resistance to: Poison and Biological Manipulation. Supported by Zenitsu resisting the Spider Brother's poison, Inosuke and Tengen resisting Gyutaro's poison, and the Pillar's resisting Muzan's blood (Demon Slayer Mark boosts this further). Also, normal people can transform into demons within seconds, but Breath users require a few days.

All Demon Slayers get Resistance to: Acid Manipulation, since a fodder chad like Murata was fine after it melted his durable clothes.

Genya gets Stealth since he is confident enough to attempt sneak attacking Upper Moons. It is also shown that Daki is good at hiding her presence, and Kyojuro said the same about the demon in his dream.

Genya also gets Statistical Amplification, since he gets a power boost after reciting a prayer, which he later explains to be his Repetitive Action trigger.

The most skilled characters gets Instinctive Reaction. Scaling from Kyojuro's danger-sense feat, Mitsuri, and Tanjiro. Also, Zenitsu I guess.

Akaza gets Sound Manipulation for hurting Tanjiro's ear with his scream when Tanjiro was a considerable distance away.

Kokushibou gets Danmaku for obvious reasons.

Upgrading Muzan's regeneration to Low-High, as we've seen him form his scarred limbs from just his blood (cool foreshadowing), there is also the statement that Yoriichi's sword created wounds that continue to burn him on a cellular level.

Muzan gets Power Absorption and Soul Manipulation linked to his Absorption, as he was going to use this to gain Nezuko's sun immunity, and he was able to talk with Tamayo's ghost before reading her memories.

Muzan gets Air Manipulation, since he is able to create small whirlwinds that pull his opponents with his tentacle mouths.

Edit: I think that there is some evidence for demons generally having resistance to poison. Shinobu specifically notes that her poison can kill demons which would imply that regular poison isn't as effective as hers. Murata also takes note of that during the segment at the end of episode 20. This page suggests that demons have a poison resistance that correlates with a demon's power. Something that Shinobu's thoughtsduring her battle against Doma support. Shinobu also can change the poison compound she uses through her sheath which implies that she needed to do that in the past or thought that she would need it.

I'd also like to take note that Akaza, Doma and Kokushibo's justifications for their Resistance against Fear Manipulation and Paralysis Inducement are worded in a way that suggests that the Demon Moons' auras generally have that sort of effect. While Akaza and Kokushibo have these abilities listed, this isn't the case for Doma. Either Doma is missing those abilities for some reason or the wording of the justifications for the Resistance needs to be changed.

Some Demon Slayers (Gyomei, Sanemi, Zenitsu, Inosuke, Kanao) get Invisibility with Yushiro's talisman, since they used it before which makes the presence concealment talisman optional equipment.

Memory Manipulation added to Muzan's absorption.

The Curse Manipulation/Telepathy/Power Bestowal for Muzan could be formatted in a better and more concise manner.

Tanjiro gets Telepathy since the databook states that he can smell the thoughts of others (which is already shown in the series, and currently listed as clarivoyance), but now we know that it is done casually enough that he uses this to attempt having conversations with animals and insects in his free time

That should be all needed to cover
Let me know if I forgot something and give your opinions on these proposed changes

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I agree with basically everything here, excluding a few.

The resistance to acid seems like it'd need a lot more evidence to scale to every Demon Slayer, and Muzan's power absorption should just be mimicry, since he isn't outright stealing the ability from Nezuko.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Also, all of your ******** links are ****** due to the non-colored manga being removed from there. Chapters 140 and onwards are still there in color, and there's a dedicated website that still hosts all of the chapters for free.

 

[Peter1129]

How does Kyojuro one shotting the flute demon means he‘s comparable to Post-Zeroshiki Tanjiro? The flute demon even said he was going to join the demon moons which means he’s only a lower moon candidate. Also I don’t even think we know if the Kyojuro in that side chapter can do total concentration: constant. And the Kyojuro in his own side story manga was already at the lvl of the pillars as he could block attacks from Sanemi without much problems.

Problem with Zenitsu scaling is that would mean Kaigaku scales since he nearly killed Zenitsu. And Kaigaku scaling would mean UM5 and above might also scale since Muzan only gave him the rank of UM6 and not UM5 when there’s still an empty seat there after he filled out UM4. Heck you could even argue Gyutaro might scale since he’s also ranked UM6. So yeah this causes a whole bunch of other scaling problems. Honestly though this probably wouldn’t really be a problem if Gyutaro’s calc gets accepted as somewhere around High 8-C.

Kokushibo is superior to Doma but we don’t know by how much. The only reason Muzan is even 8-A is because he straight up one shot an 8-B+ like Marked Gyomei.

Also how in the world does Doma making 5 clones comparable to him mean he can make himself 5 times stronger than himself who created the clones. Pretty sure all this means is that he could create clones comparable to himself it’s not a multiplier it’s simply just a cloning technique.

Also I’m pretty sure Gyutaro’s calc isn’t even accepted yet. I think I remember M3X saying he will fix it but I‘m not sure if he ever did fix it. Plus since Post-Rehab Training Tanjiro survived that attack point blank and could barely parry attacks from Gyutaro he would scale. And since he scales this means anybody comparable or stronger than him would scale.

Also I’m really not sure if we should give Tanjiro’s head a rating.

Other than that the rest looks fine.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

How does Kyojuro one shotting the flute demon means he‘s comparable to Post-Zeroshiki Tanjiro? The flute demon even said he was going to join the demon moons which means he’s only a lower moon candidate. Also I don’t even think we know if the Kyojuro in that side chapter can do total concentration: constant. And the Kyojuro in his own side story manga was already at the lvl of the pillars as he could block attacks from Sanemi without much problems.

Problem with Zenitsu scaling is that would mean Kaigaku scales since he nearly killed Zenitsu. And Kaigaku scaling would mean UM5 and above might also scale since Muzan only gave him the rank of UM6 and not UM5 when there’s still an empty seat there after he filled out UM4. Heck you could even argue Gyutaro might scale since he’s also ranked UM6. So yeah this causes a whole bunch of other scaling problems. Honestly though this probably wouldn’t really be a problem if Gyutaro’s calc gets accepted as somewhere around High 8-C.

Kokushibo is superior to Doma but we don’t know by how much. The only reason Muzan is even 8-A is because he straight up one shot an 8-B+ like Marked Gyomei.

Also how in the world does Doma making 5 clones comparable to him mean he can make himself 5 times stronger than himself who created the clones. Pretty sure all this means is that he could create clones comparable to himself it’s not a multiplier it’s simply just a cloning technique.

Also I’m pretty sure Gyutaro’s calc isn’t even accepted yet. I think I remember M3X saying he will fix it but I‘m not sure if he ever did fix it. Plus since Post-Rehab Training Tanjiro survived that attack point blank and could barely parry attacks from Gyutaro he would scale. And since he scales this means anybody comparable or stronger than him would scale.

Also I’m really not sure if we should give Tanjiro’s head a rating.

Other than that the rest looks fine.

I didn’t mean that one shotting the flute demon would equate him to Post Zeroshiki Tanjiro Tier.I phrased that poorly, more that Kyojuro even a decent amount of time before becoming a pillar would be of that caliber.
Also since post Zeroshiki was still not considered on par with Pillars I can understand the issue with this.
As it’s a little more speculative.

The One shotting the flute demon would be a feat for where a first mission Kyojuro would be.
If you would prefer a first mission key then he will probably be 9-A and Hypersonic+ rough guess.

In the case of Zenitsu I’m not even sure if Kaigaku merely almost killed him purely through Dura negation since he fights with electricity.That also “Burns flesh”
In which I’ve seen Heat based attacks considered Dura negating for those without resistance in other verses or if the heat is hot enough.

For Kokushibo isn’t Muzan also 8-A for that “Incomparably Stronger” statement
Because logically Kokushibo should be immensely superior to a heavily weakened Doma.
Which is why I think it should only be likely.
Upscaling him to 100 tons off 70 is only a 1,4x gap.

Understandable on Doma although someone else thought that it could be argued as a multiplier or a way to argue that Doma at that point is vaguely far more powerful.I was neutral leaning towards disagreeing, I wanted more opinions on that.
Doma should deserve a likely higher though purely on him being weakened.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Also, all of your ******** links are ****** due to the non-colored manga being removed from there. Chapters 140 and onwards are still there in color, and there's a dedicated website that still hosts all of the chapters for free.

Corrected the scans now

I agree with basically everything here, excluding a few.

The resistance to acid seems like it'd need a lot more evidence to scale to every Demon Slayer, and Muzan's power absorption should just be mimicry, since he isn't outright stealing the ability from Nezuko.

I think a good middle ground would be saying that the demon slayer uniform resists acid to a slight extent Murata possibly just didn’t spend long in there without his clothes at all.
It’s questionable but it was brought up to me so i felt it should have been mentioned.

Agree on Mimicry

 

[Damage3245]

All Demon Slayers get Resistance to: Acid Manipulation, since a fodder chad like Murata was fine after it melted his durable clothes.

Can't agree with this. He was just freed in time before the acid could melt his flesh. It doesn't mean he's particularly resistant, or that anyone else scales from this.

Basically everyone gets Extrasensory Perception (Able to sense the presence of others and malicious intent). This is supported by Enmu being sneaky because Demon Slayers might sense his malevolence even when they are asleep, Lower Moons talking about sensing Muzan's aura, Muichiro sensing Nezuko's presence, and Muzan sensing the presence of Hashira.

Shouldn't this only apply to the people with feats of showing it? I don't recall this being stated to be a universal ability.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

We might want to contact M3X for Gyutaro's calculation.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

We might want to contact M3X for Gyutaro's calculation.

True it’s extremely essential to the scaling

Also what are your thoughts on the Revision overall anything you disagree with or did I forget anything

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Can't agree with this. He was just freed in time before the acid could melt his flesh. It doesn't mean he's particularly resistant, or that anyone else scales from this.



Shouldn't this only apply to the people with feats of showing it? I don't recall this being stated to be a universal ability.

It’s not blatantly stated as a universal ability just heavily implied it is as Enmu wasnt specifically refering to rengoku it was basically just the slayers.Implying Even Post recovery Tanjiro was capable of this.
The other interpretation is that Enmu knows that sensing is a common ability amongst slayers and is playing it safe.
It’s seemingly not a ability slayers have to specifically train for, they just have it or it might just be commonly trained.If any of the LNs state it’s a specific ability then I am wrong.

At bare minimum this applies to a large group of characters like the Hashira and All the demon moons and ofc the main trio.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

True it’s extremely essential to the scaling

Also what are your thoughts on the Revision overall anything you disagree with or did I forget anything

I agree with most of the revision though I'm not sure on some things like the Acid Manipulation Resistance for example.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

A few things that later got mentioned in the discussion thread:

Some Demon Slayers (Gyomei, Sanemi, Zenitsu, Inosuke, Kanao) get Invisibility with Yushiro's talisman, since they used it before which makes the presence concealment talisman optional equipment. Memory Manipulation added to Muzan's absorption. The Curse Manipulation/Telepathy/Power Bestowal for Muzan could be formatted in a better and more concise manner. Tanjiro gets Telepathy since the databook states that he can smell the thoughts of others (which is already shown in the series, and currently listed as clarivoyance), but now we know that it is done casually enough that he uses this to attempt having conversations with animals and insects in his free time.

+ Poison Resistance deserves to be mentioned for demons (though it is technically covered under Adaption)

Seems like as if this is going to be a quite massive CRT. Demon Slayers getting Resistance to Poison Manipulation reminds me of something else. I think that there is some evidence for demons generally having resistance to poison. Shinobu specifically notes that her poison can kill demons which would imply that regular poison isn't as effective as hers. Murata also takes note of that during the segment at the end of episode 20. This page suggests that demons have a poison resistance that correlates with a demon's power. Something that Shinobu's thoughts during her battle against Doma support. Shinobu also can change the poison compound she uses through her sheath which implies that she needed to do that in the past or thought that she would need it.

I'd also like to take note that Akaza, Doma and Kokushibo's justifications for their Resistance against Fear Manipulation and Paralysis Inducement are worded in a way that suggests that the Demon Moons' auras generally have that sort of effect. While Akaza and Kokushibo have these abilities listed, this isn't the case for Doma. Either Doma is missing those abilities for some reason or the wording of the justifications for the Resistance needs to be changed.

---

The resistance to acid seems like it'd need a lot more evidence to scale to every Demon Slayer, and Muzan's power absorption should just be mimicry, since he isn't outright stealing the ability from Nezuko.

Beginning of series Murata is weak enough that his Water Breathing displays water so thin that it can't be seen. So it should scale to stronger and more durable characters.
Power Mimicry is copying powers that others can use. Power Absorption is stealing powers so that others can no longer use it. Considering that Muzan needs to eat his victim first it would be power absorption.

---

And the Kyojuro in his own side story manga was already at the lvl of the pillars as he could block attacks from Sanemi without much problems.

Problem with Zenitsu scaling is that would mean Kaigaku scales since he nearly killed Zenitsu. And Kaigaku scaling would mean UM5 and above might also scale since Muzan only gave him the rank of UM6 and not UM5 when there’s still an empty seat there after he filled out UM4. Heck you could even argue Gyutaro might scale since he’s also ranked UM6. So yeah this causes a whole bunch of other scaling problems. Honestly though this probably wouldn’t really be a problem if Gyutaro’s calc gets accepted as somewhere around High 8-C.

Kokushibo is superior to Doma but we don’t know by how much. The only reason Muzan is even 8-A is because he straight up one shot an 8-B+ like Marked Gyomei.

Also how in the world does Doma making 5 clones comparable to him mean he can make himself 5 times stronger than himself who created the clones. Pretty sure all this means is that he could create clones comparable to himself it’s not a multiplier it’s simply just a cloning technique.

Pre-Pillar Kyojuro would be weak by the standard of the current generation of Pillars since he was intimidated by their pressure, and Lower Moon level opponents were fodders dispatched enmass (even by non-Pillars) in the Infinity Fortress arc. Sanemi was likely testing him to see if he meets minimum qualifications.

Zenitsu was likely holding back as shown by Zenitsu blitzing him in the beginning, and saying that he wanted to display the Seventh Form after fighting him as an equal.

So Kaigaku doesn't need to scale.

Hence the Possibly 8-A for Kokushibou, since he must be much more superior than weakened and rotting Doma.

Doma's full fighting potential would be using all clones, who are stronger than his weakened form, together at the same time. This is what he would logically do if he wants to go all-out (which is a more simple strategy than separating the clones to make them fight different battles against Pillars), which in turns boosts how much he can freeze at a time.

---

Can't agree with this. He was just freed in time before the acid could melt his flesh. It doesn't mean he's particularly resistant, or that anyone else scales from this.



Shouldn't this only apply to the people with feats of showing it? I don't recall this being stated to be a universal ability.

Shinobu spent time toying with a demon while Murata is stuck in an acid pool. Either Shinobu is a sociopath who cares more about mentally torturing demons than saving lives (which we later learn she isn't), or she is confident that Murata can survive dissolving acid without major injuries.
The acid was strong enough to completely dissolve durable clothes, while Murata's hair and body is seemingly unharmed.

Enmu making it his standard tactic to avoid detection by sleeping opponents implies the ability is very common. Also, the the large number of characters who displayed presence sensing suggests it is universal. The alternative is that it is something that they are born with and can't get through training.

Tanjiro
Zenitsu
Inosuke
Lower Moons
Kyojuro
Tengen
Daki
Muichiro
Hantengu
Muzan
Akaza
Kokushibou
Doma
Yushiro

---

Major disagreement with Tanjiro's forehead getting a separate rating. Sanemi was holding back especially since he isn't supposed to be fighting, and he was reminded that Kagaya is around. Also, Gyutaro and Akaza tanked the forehead without issue.

 

[Peter1129]

In the case of Zenitsu I’m not even sure if Kaigaku merely almost killed him purely through Dura negation since he fights with electricity.That also “Burns flesh”
In which I’ve seen Heat based attacks considered Dura negating for those without resistance in other verses or if the heat is hot enough.

For Kokushibo isn’t Muzan also 8-A for that “Incomparably Stronger” statement
Because logically Kokushibo should be immensely superior to a heavily weakened Doma.
Which is why I think it should only be likely.
Upscaling him to 100 tons off 70 is only a 1,4x gap.

Understandable on Doma although someone else thought that it could be argued as a multiplier or a way to argue that Doma at that point is vaguely far more powerful.I was neutral leaning towards disagreeing, I wanted more opinions on that.
Doma should deserve a likely higher though purely on him being weakened.

Ehh I’ll just wait and see what everybody else thinks. Honestly though it could just be because swords are sharp and are treated as being able to negate durability to some extent in fiction.

Nah the main reason is still Muzan one shotting an 8-B+. That’s more of a supporting statement.

Ehh I think just 8-B+ is fine already. But if you want to you could just add a At least before 8-B+.

Pre-Pillar Kyojuro would be weak by the standard of the current generation of Pillars since he was intimidated by their pressure, and Lower Moon level opponents were fodders dispatched enmass (even by non-Pillars) in the Infinity Fortress arc. Sanemi was likely testing him to see if he meets minimum qualifications.

Zenitsu was likely holding back as shown by Zenitsu blitzing him in the beginning, and saying that he wanted to display the Seventh Form after fighting him as an equal.

So Kaigaku doesn't need to scale.

Hence the Possibly 8-A for Kokushibou, since he must be much more superior than weakened and rotting Doma.

Doma's full fighting potential would be using all clones, who are stronger than his weakened form, together at the same time. This is what he would logically do if he wants to go all-out (which is a more simple strategy than separating the clones to make them fight different battles against Pillars), which in turns boosts how much he can freeze at a time.

True I guess so what make this Kyojuro at least 9-A likely higher for defeating LM1?

Zenitsu was only shown to be holding back the Seventh Form which is likely stat boost like his other technique Godspeed. You even showed a panel of a furious Zenitsu using the First Form at the beginning of the battle. Also this doesn’t change the fact that Kaigaku actually hurt and nearly killed him. Like trust me I wouldn’t be against Zenitsu scaling to the others but if he scales there’s gonna be some serious scaling problems unless we assume Kaigaku negate durability.

I’ll just wait and see what everybody else thinks here than.

Seriously I just don’t get what you are trying to say here. So you think since Doma could create five clones his true power should be his weakened self after being poisoned plus the five clones he created? How does that even work?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

"Major disagreement with Tanjiro's forehead getting a separate rating. Sanemi was holding back especially since he isn't supposed to be fighting, and he was reminded that Kagaya is around. Also, Gyutaro and Akaza tanked the forehead without issue."

I myself am just in favor of Tanjiro's head being given a durability rating that upscales from Sanemi.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

"Poison Resistance deserves to be mentioned for demons (though it is technically covered under Adaption)"

Not all demons have Adaption though.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

"True I guess so what make this Kyojuro at least 9-A likely higher for defeating LM1?"

Kyojuro fought against Lower Moon 2 not 1.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah my mistake. Also you know you could just edit your comment right? No need to post so many times.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

@ShadowWhoWalks

Murata is still the only person in the entire manga afaik to showcase this, and we have absolutely no evidence that everyone else should scale other than "he weak", which makes 0 sense and could be used to give everyone who matters tons of abilities they objectively don't have.

That's not what power absorption is. Power absorption is when the ability is taken from someone so that they can no longer use it, which is never stated or implied to be going on with Muzan's absorption and makes no sense being part of it either. Nezuko would be dead yes, but nothing ever says she wouldn't have the sun immunity anymore if she somehow survived.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Yeah my mistake. Also you know you could just edit your comment right? No need to post so many times.

I've thought about that myself but since I couldn't really be sure about whether or not you had already seen my comment I decided that posting again would be better to be sure.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

True I guess so what make this Kyojuro at least 9-A likely higher for defeating LM1?

Zenitsu was only shown to be holding back the Seventh Form which is likely stat boost like his other technique Godspeed. You even showed a panel of a furious Zenitsu using the First Form at the beginning of the battle. Also this doesn’t change the fact that Kaigaku actually hurt and nearly killed him. Like trust me I wouldn’t be against Zenitsu scaling to the others but if he scales there’s gonna be some serious scaling problems unless we assume Kaigaku negate durability.

I’ll just wait and see what everybody else thinks here than.

Seriously I just don’t get what you are trying to say here. So you think since Doma could create five clones his true power should be his weakened self after being poisoned plus the five clones he created? How does that even work?

After blitzing Kaigaku mid-attack once with his most basic attack, Zenitsu switched to being passive and no longer angry (basically being a glutton for punishment while he is talking to Kaigaku and recalling memories), which is evidence that he is holding back. Kaigaku would get blitzed even harder against Eight Fold or Godspeed.
Kaigaku's attacks can't be conventionally blocked, but if Zenitsu is limiting himself to being Kaigaku's equal then the attacks don't need to be durability negating to harm Zenitsu.

Doma full power would be: healthy self + five equally powerful clones assisting him at the same time. His healthy self and the clones are more powerful than his weakened form, but since his weakened form has a calc it would be the basis for the multiplier and a low ball.

@ShadowWhoWalks

Murata is still the only person in the entire manga afaik to showcase this, and we have absolutely no evidence that everyone else should scale other than "he weak", which makes 0 sense and could be used to give everyone who matters tons of abilities they objectively don't have.

That's not what power absorption is. Power absorption is when the ability is taken from someone so that they can no longer use it, which is never stated or implied to be going on with Muzan's absorption and makes no sense being part of it either. Nezuko would be dead yes, but nothing ever says she wouldn't have the sun immunity anymore if she somehow survived.

Claiming that Murata has special genetics that makes his body highly resistant to potent dissolving acid is baseless. As far as we know, he only had durability boost with Breathing, and everyone gets even better durability boost from Breathing, then it would indeed scale to many characters.
This is also consistent with Shinobu not being in a rush to save him, despite only knowing about him being a Demon Slayer.

If we go with the interpretation that Muzan only needs to eat some of Nezuko's cells, like her arm, then I am fine with Power Mimicry.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

After blitzing Kaigaku mid-attack once with his most basic attack, Zenitsu switched to being passive and no longer angry (basically being a glutton for punishment while he is talking to Kaigaku and recalling memories), which is evidence that he is holding back. Kaigaku would get blitzed even harder against Eight Fold or Godspeed.
Kaigaku's attacks can't be conventionally blocked, but if Zenitsu is limiting himself to being Kaigaku's equal then the attacks don't need to be durability negating to harm Zenitsu.

Doma full power would be: healthy self + five equally powerful clones assisting him at the same time. His healthy self and the clones are more powerful than his weakened form, but since his weakened form has a calc it would be the basis for the multiplier and a low ball.


Claiming that Murata has special genetics that makes his body highly resistant to potent dissolving acid is baseless. As far as we know, he only had durability boost with Breathing, and everyone gets even better durability boost from Breathing, then it would indeed scale to many characters.
This is also consistent with Shinobu not being in a rush to save him, despite only knowing about him being a Demon Slayer.

If we go with the interpretation that Muzan only needs to eat some of Nezuko's cells, like her arm, then I am fine with Power Mimicry.

About Dura negging Kaigaku personally even if Zenitsu was holding back his durability.
Dura negating Kaigaku is still a possibility based on the attacks he uses.

Electricity attacks that cracks and burns your skin and flesh.It doesn’t seem like being more durable to blunt force or slashes is going to help with.
Apparently the cracks were so bad they would rip his eyes apart
The Anti demon coagulant had to be used to stop it which is supposed to Null BDA’s almost as if his skin would keep cracking even without repeated attacks.
It seems like Hax if anything

That likely requires more opinions though

I agree Kaigaku doesn’t need to scale.
We can just scale him to Gyutaro and Daki.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

@ShadowWhoWalks

Nice strawman, but at no point did I argue that. I'm saying that one character who is kinda fodder compared to everyone who matters resisting something doesn't mean everyone does, especially when we have 0 evidence for anyone else resisting it, and in fact evidence to the contrary (Muzan's cells were able to start breaking down the bodies of the Pillars)

That doesn't change anything. We have no proof that Muzan can steal that property from Nezuko, just that by absorbing her, he can gain it, which is power mimicry.

Also the clone argument is profoundly dumb. They're just ice puppets that can use his demon blood arts, nothing more. They never even physically attack anyone.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

You argued that Murata has special ability to resist acid that other Demon Slayers don't have, and thus this ability has nothing to do with him being a Breathing user.
It is not my problem that you chose to not address the evidence. Murata has one known type of durability boost, which is Breathing. Barring that, there is no explanation within the narrative for why Murata would not die. The available explanation scales to everyone who knows breathing. Shinobu was not in a hurry to save Murata in which case she was confident that a fodder Demon Slayer could withstand acid without dying or being mutilated.
What does Muzan have to do with it? I think there is a consensus on resisting Biological Manipulation? Like this here?

Muzan was surprised that the Pillars were able to resist his blood for so long.

If Muzan needs to kill Nezuko through absorption to acquire her ability, then he stole it, and would thus qualify as Power Absorption... since Nezuko can no longer use said ability while dead.

They are ice clones who act independently, thus Doma needs to use Cold White Princess to observe and record their fight. The durability or physical strength of the clones is not of relevance, as we are discussing the full potential of Doma, who is powering the clones whose techniques are as powerful as his.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Yes, and what about that is wrong? Nothing about that is inherently wrong like you are implying, there is no evidence for it to be a standard thing. Your entire argument is "a weak guy resisted it, so everyone does" with literally nothing beyond that and completely ignoring the fact that it is entirely reasonable for one person to resist stuff that others don't. My point was that the Pillars are clearly affected by Muzan's acidic blood, which by your logic wouldn't have done anything at all. This is also ignoring the fact that many other Demon Slayers were killed by the acid.

He doesn't steal anything. I guess everyone who can copy techniques that can kill people have power stealing despite that objectively making 0 sense. Your entire argument is that the process of Muzan gaining the ability kills Nezuko, which says absolutely nothing on whether or not she would have the ability if she somehow survived, and thus your argument is on something entirely unrelated to the issue.

Ok, and? Your argument was basically saying that Doma scales to himself + multiple clones, which is such obvious bullshit I seriously doubt I need to explain why.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

My argument is more like "A weak guy resisted it with no way to resist it in-setting except through Breathing, and Shinobu was not concerned that a random weak Breath user would die or get mutilated from being submerged in potent acid".
If you visit Muzan's profile, you'll notice that he doesn't have Acid Manipulation. That is because his blood injection causes cellular destruction, which Breath users resist, rather than being acid. Breath Users can resist Muzan's blood much better than normal people, which would support my position even if it was acidic.

As I said, if he needs to kill Nezuko then it is absorption (both power-wise and in the literal sense). If it might or might not kill Nezuko, and Muzan only needs some of her cells then it is mimicry. As said I am not against mimicry

My argument is scaling to Doma's maximum output, in that sense the miniture clones would be ways to channel his power similar to demons who use weapons to channel theirs.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Ok so straying away from Acid Manip and Power Absorbtion
Along with Doma ice clones
for a bit people
overall have people come to a conclusion on the other subjects it seems like there is

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Bump

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Some extra stuff:

• All demons get resistance to Pain Manipulation, since Giyu made a general statement that demons don't feel pain. Tanjiro and Yoriichi would get Pain Manipulation with Dance of the Sun, since it creates very painful wounds to demons who are believed to not feel pain.
• Gyomei gets Air Manipulation, since rotating his weapon draws air in.
• Giyu should get Reactive Power Level for his monologue about how his senses and skills have improved in a short time while fighting Akaza.
• Tanjiro should lose the 'Limited Air Manipulation, Confusion' part in his profile since the justification is weak, but he alongside Giyu still gets Air Manipulation for his Twisting Whirpool technique. Inosuke as well for his Circular Fangs technique and for Breath of the Beast being derived from Breath of the Wind which is straight-up Air Manipulation.
• Tanjiro gets Resistance to Pain Manipulation since he shrugged off injuries that should inflict crippling pain.
• The "Partial Demonification" picture label for Tanjiro is wrong, since Muzan's injected blood is in cellular destruction mode; it should be 'Post-Breath of the Sun Mastery'.
• Tanjiro gets Resistance to Dream Manipulation alongside the resistance to Sleep Manipulation, also a better justification would be: (Can almost immediately recognize he is sleeping within a dream world, and kept forcing himself to wake up by killing himself within the dream when Enmu repeatedly used his power to force him to sleep)

---

Alright so, the controversial stuff seems to be:

1. Murata's feat of no-selling dissolving acid scaling to other Demon Slayers (justification reminder: due to Murata having no known enhancement other than Breathing, and Shinobu not being worried about a rookie Demon Slayer being submerged in the acid, and it would be out of character for Shinobu to not immediately save him if she thought he was in serious risk of death or mutilation)
2. Doma's statement that his clones being as powerful as him technique-wise while being able to use them simultaneously being a multiplier
3. Kokushibou and Doma getting 8-A or a Possibly 8-A
4. (Maybe?) Extrasensory Perception being something common to all KnY characters

I say we should see if anyone thinks more propositions should be controversial, and then briefly discuss one of them at a time before voting, then moving into the next controversial propositions.

 

[SpookyShadow]

(Maybe?) Extrasensory Perception being something common to all KnY characters

Why's that

I agree with everything else for now (especially my incomplete shockwave CRT) except the calc shit because I'm not a calc guy

 

[SpookyShadow]

We gotta also think about lifting strength scaling to demons. Would Akaza scale to Kyojuro, even though he was totally overpowered by him?

 

[Randomlamdom]

All demons get resistance to Pain Manipulation, since Giyu made a general statement that demons don't feel pain. Tanjiro and Yoriichi would get Pain Manipulation with Dance of the Sun, since it creates very painful wounds to demons who are believed to not feel pain.

Wasn't nezuko feeling a lot of pain when she was strung up by rui?
And later when she was stabbed by pillar guy? can't remember to well and don't know if it's different in the manga

 

[Nehz_XZX]

"All demons get resistance to Pain Manipulation, since Giyu made a general statement that demons don't feel pain."

I do not quite agree with that. Nezuko was quite clearly feeling uncomfortable during the times she got stabbed by Sanemi. The way her reaction is depicted in the anime supports that she felt pain. There is also that one demon from chapter/episode 2 who had quite the reaction from his body falling down the cliff and fainted. I've also found a different translation for the same page.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Could be CIS

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

We gotta also think about lifting strength scaling to demons. Would Akaza scale to Kyojuro, even though he was totally overpowered by him?

He was being overpowered by a Kyojuro who was basically getting a near death adrenaline rush so maybe amp so give him a “Possibly” at most.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

• All demons get resistance to Pain Manipulation, since Giyu made a general statement that demons don't feel pain. Tanjiro and Yoriichi would get Pain Manipulation with Dance of the Sun, since it creates very painful wounds to demons who are believed to not feel pain
• Gyomei gets Air Manipulation, since rotating his weapon draws air in.
• Giyu should get Reactive Power Level for his monologue about how his senses and skills have improved in a short time while fighting Akaza.
• Tanjiro should lose the 'Limited Air Manipulation, Confusion' part in his profile since the justification is weak, but he alongside Giyu still gets Air Manipulation for his Twisting Whirpool technique. Inosuke as well for his Circular Fangs technique and for Breath of the Beast being derived from Breath of the Wind which is straight-up Air Manipulation.
• Tanjiro gets Resistance to Pain Manipulation since he shrugged off injuries that should inflict crippling pain.
• The "Partial Demonification" picture label for Tanjiro is wrong, since Muzan's injected blood is in cellular destruction mode; it should be 'Post-Breath of the Sun Mastery'.
• Tanjiro gets Resistance to Dream Manipulation alongside the resistance to Sleep Manipulation, also a better justification would be: (Can almost immediately recognize he is sleeping within a dream world, and kept forcing himself to wake up by killing himself within the dream when Enmu repeatedly used his power to force him to sleep)

I mostly agree with this although Pain Manip resistance force demons Im neutral on

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Don't we all wish the official translation was more reliable; I no longer support resistance to pain for demons, though Sun Breathing should still get Pain Manipulation.

Why's that

Comes from Enmu's statement that he uses human underlings because he is worried Demon Slayers might sense his malevolence if he gets close, even while they are sleeping.
There is also a large number of characters who displayed presence sensing, and Giyu assumes that Akaza is capable of it as well. It seems more likely that it is a sense that can be improved, similar to how Tanjiro was told that improving his sense of smell allows him to know how many people a demon ate.

Tanjiro
Zenitsu
Inosuke
Lower Moons
Kyojuro
Tengen
Daki
Muichiro
Hantengu
Muzan
Akaza
Kokushibou
Doma
Yushiro

---

Akaza was shocked that Kyojuro can still swing a sword to begin with, so it is probably a 'become stronger in critical moments' amp; might warrants giving Rengoku Rage Power. Giyu is comparable to Kyojuro in strength, and Akaza overpowered Marked Giyu. So I'd say Akaza's lifting strength should be comparable to Kyojuro.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Could be CIS

Which instance are you exactly referring to?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Well, it was a significant plot point, so it could actually be CIS, but I'm sceptic towards it

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Well, it was a significant plot point, so it could actually be CIS, but I'm sceptic towards it

Which plot point do you mean exactly?

 

[SpookyShadow]

When Nezuko was stabbed by Sanemi and actually felt pain