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Kenganverse overhaul: Fixing the mess
- Thread starter LordGinSama
- Start date
- 16,910
- 11,937
- Thread starter
- #162
Making a quick speed CRT since the entire "Kengan states that bullet timing is impossible." can be easily debunked just with one scan alone.
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If the Calc's been accepted, we can go ahead and discuss who it would actually scale to.
Inaba was stated to be 2x-3x weaker then Ohma, in terms of raw power. I'm going to assume 2x would be a good option to lowball here.
So Ohma= At least 2x the calc value.
Ohma didn't grow in (Physical) strength, from BOS to Round 1, so all of his previous opponents should scale.
Kaburagi Koji (Medicine Man) Somewhat downscales. While clearly weaker than Ohma, he was capable of damaging him.
Lihito was capable of matching Ohma in power, even implying he was physically stronger than him, in raw strength
Lihito and Sawada are shown to be comparable with eachother.
Unconditioned Hatsumi was able to fight against an injured Advance Ohma. (Peak Hatsumi would still be high tier, as usual)
Chiba was able to draw blood from Hatsumi with a glancing blow.
Bando was stated to be capable of one-shotting Hatsumi with a single Arm Whip, and could take multiple hits from him. It's debatable of Bando scales higher, as he did force Hatsumi into Peak Condition after his fight.
Hanafusa, while significantly weaker than Bando, was still capable of harming him with his bone blades and his other body modifications.
These are characters that could reasonably scale, if we don't scale them to anything higher. Though there are likely others I've missed.
Inaba was stated to be 2x-3x weaker then Ohma, in terms of raw power. I'm going to assume 2x would be a good option to lowball here.
So Ohma= At least 2x the calc value.
Ohma didn't grow in (Physical) strength, from BOS to Round 1, so all of his previous opponents should scale.
Kaburagi Koji (Medicine Man) Somewhat downscales. While clearly weaker than Ohma, he was capable of damaging him.
Lihito was capable of matching Ohma in power, even implying he was physically stronger than him, in raw strength
Lihito and Sawada are shown to be comparable with eachother.
Unconditioned Hatsumi was able to fight against an injured Advance Ohma. (Peak Hatsumi would still be high tier, as usual)
Chiba was able to draw blood from Hatsumi with a glancing blow.
Bando was stated to be capable of one-shotting Hatsumi with a single Arm Whip, and could take multiple hits from him. It's debatable of Bando scales higher, as he did force Hatsumi into Peak Condition after his fight.
Hanafusa, while significantly weaker than Bando, was still capable of harming him with his bone blades and his other body modifications.
These are characters that could reasonably scale, if we don't scale them to anything higher. Though there are likely others I've missed.
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Alright, so I'm going to go ahead and add what characters scale to Karo's 9-A+ value.
Karo: His Whale Burial technique yields this much energy.
Saw Paing: Can endure a direct Whale Burial to the chest and continue fighting.
Rei: While physically weaker than Karo, he was still able to somewhat damage Saw Paing.
Nezu (?): His kick was described as "heavy" by Rei, implying he thought it was powerful. Though he was one-shotted, it is important to note that His lapse of composure made him unable to use his full strength.
Adam: Directly stated to have comparable trunk muscles (and thus comparable striking strength) to Karo.
R1 Cosmo: While significantly weaker, He was acknowledged by Adam to be strong, and could visibly stagger him with his blows.
Other notes on scaling.
8-A
I would suggest that the "Low 7-C" rating for HIGH tiers should be removed. As stated previously, I disagree with the notion that other fighters would scale to Kiozan's Raging Vigor.
Nikado Ren (Not mentioned in the OP) should scale to 8-A: He was confident in his ability to kill Meguro, with Julius even assuming he was enough to restrain him.
OTHER
Kaneda and Himuro don't really have any solid scaling to the 8-A or 9-A calculations in Asura, at least to my knowledge. Because of this, it might simply be prudent to just rate them as 9-B, via Himuro being capable of tanking out several Guardians while injured.
Karo: His Whale Burial technique yields this much energy.
Saw Paing: Can endure a direct Whale Burial to the chest and continue fighting.
Rei: While physically weaker than Karo, he was still able to somewhat damage Saw Paing.
Nezu (?): His kick was described as "heavy" by Rei, implying he thought it was powerful. Though he was one-shotted, it is important to note that His lapse of composure made him unable to use his full strength.
Adam: Directly stated to have comparable trunk muscles (and thus comparable striking strength) to Karo.
R1 Cosmo: While significantly weaker, He was acknowledged by Adam to be strong, and could visibly stagger him with his blows.
Other notes on scaling.
8-A
I would suggest that the "Low 7-C" rating for HIGH tiers should be removed. As stated previously, I disagree with the notion that other fighters would scale to Kiozan's Raging Vigor.
Nikado Ren (Not mentioned in the OP) should scale to 8-A: He was confident in his ability to kill Meguro, with Julius even assuming he was enough to restrain him.
OTHER
Kaneda and Himuro don't really have any solid scaling to the 8-A or 9-A calculations in Asura, at least to my knowledge. Because of this, it might simply be prudent to just rate them as 9-B, via Himuro being capable of tanking out several Guardians while injured.
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Whale Burial missing a link there? Actually in general where is the link to that? Been trying to find it
Last edited:
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I…can’t find the link either, actually.
Gin is the person who first mentioned it, so hopefully he knows the link for the 9-A+ value.
Gin is the person who first mentioned it, so hopefully he knows the link for the 9-A+ value.
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Ah well, we'll get it some other time.
I'm not sure if Kurachi Karugo can scale to Sekibayashi but Cosmo's teacher had some presence in Omega with Narushima. What position would they be in?
Also from how it looks, I think we got pretty much everyone
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They're at least higher than Jose who is A lister, making them comparable to Rihito in Omega. Jose is a Fist of the Seeker character during part 2 of the comic, and portrayed as mid tier. Narushima, Kurachi and Karugo are comparable since they all could damage Mentaro. All Fist of the Seeker character profile could be Omega A lister too.
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We’re handling Omega scaling in a separate revision, so let’s not get too in the weeds with that until we tackle it.
though that doesn’t sound wrong, based on my limited knowledge of FOTS
azontr
He/Him- 39,443
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Figured I'd bring this up here.
Bando should be scaled to Hatsumi at Peak Conditioning somewhat. In terms of durability.
He was able to survive one of Hatsumi's moves when he was at Peak Condition through his inhuman bone flexibility dulling the impact. So his durability would, while not solidly, somewhat scale to Hatsumi at Peak Condition. Should be something like a "9-A, likely 8-A with bone shit" or whatever. 9-A because he scales above Inaba's calc, since he fought an unconditioned Hatsumi who did fight against Advance Ohma who was injured after his fight with Sekibayashi.
The 9-A scaling from the calc I made should also preferably be reflected in the OP.
Bando should be scaled to Hatsumi at Peak Conditioning somewhat. In terms of durability.
He was able to survive one of Hatsumi's moves when he was at Peak Condition through his inhuman bone flexibility dulling the impact. So his durability would, while not solidly, somewhat scale to Hatsumi at Peak Condition. Should be something like a "9-A, likely 8-A with bone shit" or whatever. 9-A because he scales above Inaba's calc, since he fought an unconditioned Hatsumi who did fight against Advance Ohma who was injured after his fight with Sekibayashi.
The 9-A scaling from the calc I made should also preferably be reflected in the OP.
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I agree with that yeah.
though, it would probably only apply to blunt force? Hanafusa’s bone blades could still easily pierce through his body.
though, it would probably only apply to blunt force? Hanafusa’s bone blades could still easily pierce through his body.
azontr
He/Him- 39,443
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It would only apply to blunt force attacks, yeah. Piercing attacks can still do damage, like Hajime's bone blades.
Though, in such a case, it may not be a solid rating and more just a resistance to blunt force attacks, akin to Luffy, who can resist blunt attacks much stronger than himself but not scale to said stronger attacks.
Though, in such a case, it may not be a solid rating and more just a resistance to blunt force attacks, akin to Luffy, who can resist blunt attacks much stronger than himself but not scale to said stronger attacks.
azontr
He/Him- 39,443
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@LordGinSama pack him up
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- Thread starter
- #176
Much literal weaker character than Wakatsuki are shown creating legitimate small scale earthquakes with their strikes such as Dongcheng.
Also I don't wanna call Ugarik irrelevant but he isn't even active anymore, let alone him having all the say in a situation since multiple calc members have accepted the earthquake method.
Also I don't wanna call Ugarik irrelevant but he isn't even active anymore, let alone him having all the say in a situation since multiple calc members have accepted the earthquake method.
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In the description of Liu's techniques, it is explicitly stated that he sends vibrations through the air. It's not an earthquake. Moreover, we cannot use the earthquake formula when the radius is so small.
But the most important thing is that there is no evidence that this is an earthquake. No one marked it. Didn't call him that. You have nothing to refer to.
But the most important thing is that there is no evidence that this is an earthquake. No one marked it. Didn't call him that. You have nothing to refer to.
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- Thread starter
- #178
Nik take your ass elsewhere with your own personal agenda and views. This calc and method was accepted, end of discussion. If you disagree then make a CRT, don't cry here in a thread about the scaling of the verse that you literally ruined.
Not wasting my time with ya.
Not wasting my time with ya.
azontr
He/Him- 39,443
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- 16,910
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- Thread starter
- #180
He can if he wants but it definitely isn't getting accepted lol
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Why do you allow such rude tons in messages? Don't you start complaining to the interlocutor in every discussion that he talks to you arrogantly?
I have given you the facts why the calculation is invalid. You just leave.
Who else has messed up the verse)
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- Thread starter
- #183
Not being rude or aggressive, just being honest.
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Um. I directly touched on the calculation that is attached to this thread. So it should be here.
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Excellent double standards.
I hope you don't turn the verse back into an incomprehensible mess, where the fighters have a thousandfold difference in strength
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- Thread starter
- #186
The calc has nothing to do with the scaling. The feat could be wall level and it wouldn't effect the character scaling.
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How can a feat not affect scaling if you refer to it?
azontr
He/Him- 39,443
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...The thread is about who scales to who or what. Not the values themselves.
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- Thread starter
- #189
Projection doesn't suit you Nik but I understand that you feel bad for the current dog-shit profiles full of wonky scaling, grammar mistakes for days and giving us work by fixing the mess you've made.
But it's cool, I forgive you since you must feel pretty bad.
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"
The new calculations
So previously all of the shaking feats in the Kenganverse were dismissed with the Vibration method. However that's wrong for various reasons, which are explained here. Aside from the blatant statements and feats from Liu, using the Vibration method going off of the reason that "there are machines irl which can shake buildings." those are not superstructures such as the Kengan Annihilation Dome and the Purgatory Dome, the latter being located in a literal Volcano.
The previous calculations have been updated and accepted, so the earthquake method is good to go. Using this method gives us a solid 8-A (479.09 tons) feat from a base dying Ohma. That essentially wraps it up for Ashura calculations as the next thread will be dedicated to Omega scaling."
I'm literally quoting part of the thread.Is this still off topic?)
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No, Gin, I remember how the first comments after the revision were "Finally someone is putting things in order after Gin", and you were not lazy and replied that it hurt you)
azontr
He/Him- 39,443
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Bro
That's just an introduction to our currently accepted stats so that Gin can format the OP and thread
The main point of the thread is to discuss the scaling.
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Full scaling from a feat that is being questioned. There is no reason why this cannot be discussed here.
- 16,910
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- Thread starter
- #194
Just ignore him tbh.
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- Thread starter
- #195
Anyway I'll take the words of the calculation team members who accepted the calc and method used over Nik's own personal preference. Calc is fine till someone makes a separate CRT, not entertaining this any longer.
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Uh, About Liu's earthquake foot. I'd like to point out that it does actually send vibrations through the ground, not just the air.
As shown when a younger and presumably weaker Liu Shakes and displaces the water of an entire pool. Using the technique.
As shown when a younger and presumably weaker Liu Shakes and displaces the water of an entire pool. Using the technique.
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I believe you're misunderstanding what's being said in the OP Nik, just because a calc is provided, or brought up in the OP doesn't mean it holds relevance over what's being discussed, or proposed in the thread itself. This thread seems to be primarily discussing scaling from the newly accepted calc, it isn't discussing the calc itself, the value of the calc could be changed and the discussion would remain the same since it isn't specifically based around that calc, rather it's based around the characters scaling from said calc.
If you wish to address the calc itself then make a separate thread for it, derailing this one isn't helpful nor productive.
If you wish to address the calc itself then make a separate thread for it, derailing this one isn't helpful nor productive.
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- Thread starter
- #199
Common Deceived W.
