Kengan revision (attempt number 2)

[Huesito88]

tf is this i thought this was a martial arts manga

So was Dragon Ball and God of High School at some point

 

[NikHelton]

Low 1-C Kengan

 

[Mikazzzuchi]

Low 1-C Kengan

Based on Carl Jung's works and their connection with kengan we get level 0

 

[Mikazzzuchi]

Japanese image
« 漁場を守る為、、 家族を守る為、、、
この腕と、どんな獲物だって 倒してきた。この話で! »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« To protect our fishing grounds, to protect our families,
With this hand, I killed all the fish I met.With this story! »

In the original translation, the emphasis goes specifically to Karo's arm strike, which only confirms what I said about his strength being independent of the harpoon by almost any amount.

 

[Armorchompy]

it does not do that

 

[NikHelton]

it does not do that

Isn't the emphasis on the fact that he did it with his strength and not with his weapons?

 

[Armorchompy]

doing something with your strength doesn't mean weapons didn't play a key role

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

doing something with your strength doesn't mean weapons didn't play a key role

Like a samurai saying I killed people with those two hands. Sure pal you did. The sword those two hands held did somewhat help make that easier though.

 

[Mikazzzuchi]

doing something with your strength doesn't mean weapons didn't play a key role

No, in this case we have a technique called the whaler, which Karo developed specifically for the tournament to "protect his family", when we are told the background of the technique we are literally emphasized on his physical strength, further portraying the blow as a harpoon strike

 

[Armorchompy]

"this technique uses strength so weapons don't matter"

"using strength doesn't mean weapons don't matter"

"you don't understand, this technique uses strength"

 

[Mikazzzuchi]

"this technique uses strength so weapons don't matter"

"using strength doesn't mean weapons don't matter"

"you don't understand, this technique uses strength"

The whole point of what I said is that Karo's whaler force is equivalent to Karo's strike force with the Harpoon, don't misrepresent my words

 

[Armorchompy]

The strike force of someone with a spear IRL is probably not very different from their punching force either, that doesn't mean the spear doesn't make piercing someone much easier

 

[NikHelton]

Impaling a creature 200 meters long and 30 meters wide with a spear is not something that will seriously harm it.

A spear can help pierce skin, but not a thick skull.

It's like if Pickle kills Godzilla from the Monsterverse with a spear and you say he doesn't scale.

How many weapon user profiles will we now have to reconsider because they use weapons with a minimal contact area to attack?

 

[Armorchompy]

It's like if Pickle kills Godzilla from the Monsterverse with a spear and you say he doesn't scale.

Correct, he would not, piercing like 5 meters of skin and skull with an object with tiny ass surface area would not scale you to the entire power of a 500+ meter tall 100000+ ton creature

 

[NikHelton]

Correct, he would not, piercing like 5 meters of skin and skull with an object with tiny ass surface area would not scale you to the entire power of a 500+ meter tall 100000+ ton creature

Well, in this case, any attack that does not destroy the entire body should no longer scale to durability.

Now we can use the area of the fist to determine the force of the punch.

 

[NikHelton]

Should we scale Wakatsuki up to his kicks fully, or should it be a separate key, like a Blastcore?

 

[LordGinSama]

Should we scale Wakatsuki up to his kicks fully, or should it be a separate key, like a Blastcore?

To his durability. Should also note them in his AP and Striking strength, just make sure to note "higher with kicks" in the respective sections.

Also has anyone calculated Gilbert escaping from the grenade blast at point blank?

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Scaling Waka's kicks to his durability is iffy. Since it creates a weird sorta scaling loop here.

Waka's durability = 3x his regular AP.

Julius can draw blood from Waka with singular punches

Julius AP thus scales to Waka's durability.

Waka's AP scales to Julius's AP via punch clashing.

You see the issue here?

 

[NikHelton]

Scaling Waka's kicks to his durability is iffy. Since it creates a weird sorta scaling loop here.

Waka's durability = 3x his regular AP.

Julius can draw blood from Waka with singular punches

Julius AP thus scales to Waka's durability.

Waka's AP scales to Julius's AP via punch clashing.

You see the issue here?

I guess we're just being given a legitimate multiplier to determine the strength of a kick, but with karate techniques, Wakatsuki can throw punches with the same force as with his legs

 

[NikHelton]

I also think it's very funny that Shen's profile listed "Clairvoyance" as an ability, because he guessed Mukaku's thoughts.

 

[NikHelton]

Also has anyone calculated Gilbert escaping from the grenade blast at point blank?

Apparently he didn't dodge, but got caught in the explosion, which is also a pretty cool feat.

However, the explosion feat is very stupid. A fiery flash the size of a city block or a skyscraper, but destruction only at the level of a wall+

 

[NikHelton]

Wow, I had a lot to do and a bad mood and a lot to do, so we moved away from that.
However, now we can finish this. So, thanks to @Viott, we have a new Demonsbane calculation giving a result of 2,37 Kilotons.

Prior to this, low tier Inaba types are scaled, which should be stronger than the half-dead Ohma child and are able to fight back against his adult version, which, according to Setsuna, has become much stronger physically. Ohma scales 2,5 times stronger than Inaba (Inaba's employer says that Ohma is 2-3 times stronger) to 5,925 Kilotons.

Wakatsuki scales above this by 15 times (5 times due to superiority over the Indestructible and 3 times the kick multiplier), getting a value of 88 Kilotons. His BlastCore scales to an unknown extent much more strongly.

Shen Wulong scales "At least 88 Kilotons, likely for higher" for surpassing his own verse by an unknown number of times.

Low tier characters scale up to Inaba, receiving a supersonic rating.
Mid-high tier characters scale up to High Hypersonic via base Raian, which can respond to base Rei.
God tier characters scale up to Fei and its High Hypersonic+ value, although this is currently only the case for Shen.

Low tier characters scale up to Class K in LS and must be stronger than the Setsuna child. Mid and high tier characters scale up to Rei and his Class M feat

 

[Passersby]

giving a result of 2,37 Kilotons.

...why did you not take the height of the trees, and instead used the height of the mountain that will be smaller because it's far away which likely will result in flawed size scaling and ultimately lead to an inflated result

well idk, but it doesn't matter, arguing with sasaki kojiro's goons was enough for now lol

 

[Passersby]

Mid-high tier characters scale up to High Hypersonic via base Raian, which can respond to base Rei.

idk why i'm doing this but whatever

10.48/(0.013/11) = 8867.6 m/s = 25.8 Mach(High hypersonic speed)
this is wrong, specifically this :
Rei's distance traveled/(snail speed/athlete's running speed)

this will give you distance, not speed, dividing speed by speed gives you a dimensionless number, like 10m/s / 5m/s = 2...and that's it, just 2 not 2m/s

likewise, a distance over that will just give you distance, like 30 m / (10m/s / 5m/s) = 30 m / 2 = 15 m

this isn't speed, the calc is wrong


edit: also idk if this counts, but in the third calc bro was very visibly hit, we also don't know how much that "slow motion" is and how fast he moves in that preceived slow motion, so idk about the third calc either

 

[NikHelton]

Looking at this image, we see that the mountain is located in the center of the forest and occupies a larger space. Niko said that they are right in the middle of the forest, which should mean that they are at the foot of the mountain. I'll tell you more, through this image we can even find the height of the mountain, but Sandrovich got stoned when he wrote about 100 km, because from this data we get that the Inside area is 2000 km ^2 instead of the 40 stated in the manga and that the height of the mountain is more than 20 km, which puts this feat at the level of 6-C, Lmao

 

[NikHelton]

idk why i'm doing this but whatever

10.48/(0.013/11) = 8867.6 m/s = 25.8 Mach(High hypersonic speed)
this is wrong, specifically this :
Rei's distance traveled/(snail speed/athlete's running speed)

this will give you distance, not speed, dividing speed by speed gives you a dimensionless number, like 10m/s / 5m/s = 2...and that's it, just 2 not 2m/s

likewise, a distance over that will just give you distance, like 30 m / (10m/s / 5m/s) = 30 m / 2 = 15 m

this isn't speed, the calc is wrong

See how the snail's speed works. Apparent velocity of the object/(snail velocity/velocity of the reference object)

 

[Huesito88]

but Sandrovich got stoned when he wrote about 100 km, because from this data we get that the Inside area is 2000 km ^2 instead of the 40 stated in the manga and that the height of the mountain is more than 20 km, which puts this feat at the level of 6-C, Lmao

Lmao do it

 

[Passersby]

Looking at this image, we see that the mountain is located in the center of the forest and occupies a larger space. Niko said that they are right in the middle of the forest, which should mean that they are at the foot of the mountain. I'll tell you more, through this image we can even find the height of the mountain, but Sandrovich got stoned when he wrote about 100 km, because from this data we get that the Inside area is 2000 km ^2 instead of the 40 stated in the manga and that the height of the mountain is more than 20 km, which puts this feat at the level of 6-C, Lmao

this is good and all but that would mean the trees in this panel are literally KMs long, which, yk, is bs and stuff, the scale the trees approach is also more in lign with the surrounding area not being literally obliterated from the clash

See how the snail's speed works. Apparent velocity of the object/(snail velocity/velocity of the reference object)

that makes more sens, velocity not distance

Rei's distance traveled/(snail speed/athlete's running speed)

which was used here

edit:

Looking at this image, we see that the mountain is located in the center of the forest and occupies a larger space. Niko said that they are right in the middle of the forest, which should mean that they are at the foot of the mountain. I'll tell you more, through this image we can even find the height of the mountain, but Sandrovich got stoned when he wrote about 100 km, because from this data we get that the Inside area is 2000 km ^2 instead of the 40 stated in the manga and that the height of the mountain is more than 20 km, which puts this feat at the level of 6-C, Lmao

also looking at the little arrow over there, they're nowhere near the mountain lmao, they're literally far away from it, at least if that thing points towards their location

edit#2: hell, even the context of the scene where they merely show destroyed trees supports this notion, idk why people found no problem using the moutain as a reference when there are literal trees below the dust, if tose things were the size the calc describes them to be they'd be dwarfing the trees in size

 

[NikHelton]

that makes more sens, velocity not distance

I understand you. This is just a calculation error. We have to use the athlete's speed, which is 11 m/sec, which would increase the result somewhat. But the essence remains the same.

which was used here

edit:


also looking at the little arrow over there, they're nowhere near the mountain lmao, they're literally far away from it, at least if that thing points towards their location

edit#2: hell, even the context of the scene where they merely show destroyed trees supports this notion, idk why people found no problem using the moutain as a reference when there are literal trees below the dust, if tose things were the size the calc describes them to be they'd be dwarfing the trees in size

The arrow shows where the forest is located. After that, they walk through the forest for a while and Niko says that they are now in its center.

 

[Passersby]

I understand you. This is just a calculation error. We have to use the athlete's speed, which is 11 m/sec, which would increase the result somewhat. But the essence remains the

yup, easy fix lol

The arrow shows where the forest is located. After that, they walk through the forest for a while and Niko says that they are now in its center.

understandable, russian just seems like magic so it doesn't matter much, the problem with the scaling and the the trees is still there tho, like there are trees right below the dust and the panel shows the aftermath of the attack is still quite a distance from the mountain, unless i missed some memo about the trees being one of the tallest in the world that scaling really doesn't seem to make much sens

basically this

edit#2: hell, even the context of the scene where they merely show destroyed trees supports this notion, idk why people found no problem using the moutain as a reference when there are literal trees below the dust, if tose things were the size the calc describes them to be they'd be dwarfing the trees in size

but if enough people find it fine then eh, it is what it is lol

 

[NikHelton]

yup, easy fix lol

We'll do it later, but it will still be High Hypersonic

understandable, russian just seems like magic so it doesn't matter much, the problem with the scaling and the the trees is still there tho, like there are trees right below the dust and the panel shows the aftermath of the attack is still quite a distance from the mountain, unless i missed some memo about the trees being one of the tallest in the world that scaling really doesn't seem to make much sens

I, too, was not previously a supporter of scaling from the mountain, but taking into account all the nuances, it works.

I mean, yeah, the mountain is a hundred meters from the explosion. But the mountain itself is hundreds of meters high. Imagine something small instead of these objects and then the scaling will look better in your eyes.

basically this


but if enough people find it fine then eh, it is what it is lol

I treat this feat the same way as stopping an earthquake. Well, if we allow these crazy things, then why not

 

[Passersby]

I mean, yeah, the mountain is a hundred meters from the explosion. But the mountain itself is hundreds of meters high. Imagine something small instead of these objects and then the scaling will look better in your eyes.

Tbh, it may be the sleep deprivation from staying all night reading novels but I don't think I understand this, like the mountain will appear smaller no matter what and the trees are still a better way to scale the stuff because it's right next to it especially since the "camera angle" given to us is from a significant distance away from the dustcloud so the mountain will appear even smaller making the dust clouds seem bigger than they actually are, the context surrounding this feat also supports this notion by looking at the physical destruction the attack caused

But eh

I treat this feat the same way as stopping an earthquake. Well, if we allow these crazy things, then why not

Ig let's just keep the thing as is lol

 

[Viott]

Bump

 

[NikHelton]

Bump

 

[NikHelton]

Bump

 

[NikHelton]

I also deleted several calculations that do not affect the balance.
DMUA calculation of Wakatsuki, who broke the wall, used the radius of the crater as the depth, although it is not nearly as deep.
Azontr's Inaba calculation uses reinforced concrete, although we were never informed that the walls in the arena are made of it. The walls in the building are yes, but if you look at the fragments of the wall in the battle of Muteba and Wakatsuki, you can see that this is ordinary concrete

 

[Viott]

Wow, I had a lot to do and a bad mood and a lot to do, so we moved away from that.
However, now we can finish this. So, thanks to @Viott, we have a new Demonsbane calculation giving a result of 2,37 Kilotons.

Does a new crt need to be opened?

 

[NikHelton]

Does a new crt need to be opened?

This is quite enough. I have already contacted several moderators. Could you do that too please?

 

[Viott]

This is quite enough. I have already contacted several moderators. Could you do that too please?

I'll open it when I have time.

 

[NikHelton]

bump