Kenganverse overhaul: Fixing the mess

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

It's not so much a problem, it's getting accurate whose scaling to what. a couple of people have suggested people who may or may not scale besides those listed in the OP.

I just want to like, make sure all that's settled so we don't eventually get people pumping out more revisions because [Insert Characeter] wasn't scaled to [insert value].

 

[Jibz]

Garou adap- shit wrong place. At a glance everything seems to be correct.

 

[azontr]

It's not so much a problem, it's getting accurate whose scaling to what. a couple of people have suggested people who may or may not scale besides those listed in the OP.

I just want to like, make sure all that's settled so we don't eventually get people pumping out more revisions because [Insert Characeter] wasn't scaled to [insert value].

Ah aight. I don't really see anything wrong with what's displayed in the OP at first glance, but if there's still some confusion on scaling then yeah it'd probably be best to wait.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Reading back, Meguro should also scale, if Muteba is scaling.

While inferior to him, Meguro was able to Throw Muteba hard enough that he spat blood, despite Muteba breaking his fall to partially decrease the damage.

We later see that he's strong enough to rip off a chunk of Muteba's flesh with a bite.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Where does it say that it increases Ohma's strength 5 times over? From the image provided it just says his heart beats four or five times faster which has nothing to do with his AP.

 

[azontr]

Where does it say that it increases Ohma's strength 5 times over? From the image provided it just says his heart beats four or five times faster which has nothing to do with his AP.

His heart beating faster accelerates the flow of his blood which in turn increases his power. That is quite literally how the Advance works.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

His heart beating faster accelerates the flow of his blood which in turn increases his power. That is quite literally how the Advance works.

Yes I understand that but there is no indication that it increases his power by exactly how fast his heart is beating.

 

[azontr]

Yes I understand that but there is no indication that it increases his power by exactly how fast his heart is beating.

His heart beating faster by default increases his power.

If it beats faster the rate at which it pumps blood also increases. So if it pumps blood at a rate 4-5x faster than normal, one would become 4-5x stronger as a result.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yes I understand that but there is no indication that it increases his power by exactly how fast his heart is beating.

No, there's every indication that it increases AP. The speed of his heart beating directly correlates to his power, this was explained by both Sekibayashi and Ohma wayyy back in the earlier chapters.

This is stated several times.

 

[azontr]

In general, does it even need to be stated that increased blood flow=increased strength? That's deadass how it works IRL as well.

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Reading back, Meguro should also scale, if Muteba is scaling.

While inferior to him, Meguro was able to Throw Muteba hard enough that he spat blood, despite Muteba breaking his fall to partially decrease the damage.

We later see that he's strong enough to rip off a chunk of Muteba's flesh with a bite.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[LordGinSama]

Any thoughts on this?

Ehhh I'd say possibly since the next page where Muteba gets thrown it's revealed he's just playing.



I'd say Meguro should downscale from Muteba since he failed to do any notable lasting damage.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

He was playing when he lured Meguro into the eye poke, yeah. But he was noticeably caught off guard by the initial throw. Hence the “!?” Marks around him when he was grabbed. The fact that Muteba was unable to completely nullify the throw, despite explicitly trying to do so, alone is proof enough that the impact wasn't vastly inferior to his durability.

I'd honestly go for "likely" instead of possibly. Muteba directly confirms that he had been injured badly by Meguro's attacks. It was never displayed that there was a massive gap in physical abilities between the two, with Muteba mostly dominating because of his superior skills and tactics.

 

[LordGinSama]

Early Kengan art was so ******* unique

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Early Kengan does hit different ngl. The Art was really good for the Meguro fight.

 

[Black_Hoopa]

Inaba is at least 2 or 3 times weaker than Ohma R1, I think Lihito should also scale Inaba for his performance in his first fight with Ohma

https://**********.com/read-online/Kengan-Asura-chapter-60-page-16.html

 

[azontr]

Inaba is at least 2 or 3 times weaker than Ohma R1, I think Lihito should also scale Inaba for his performance in his first fight with Ohma

https://**********.com/read-online/Kengan-Asura-chapter-60-page-16.html

Where'd you get those numbers lol.

 

[Black_Hoopa]

 

[azontr]

I guess I can agree with that, then. Though, it'd also be good to note that Inaba's hair isn't actually as weak as Inaba is in comparison to Ohma, and that he only begun to just overpower Inaba's hair once he used the Advance.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

R1 Ohma wouldn’t scale to his iron breaker feat tho, right?

what value would he scale to?

 

[azontr]

What I want to know is what 8-C value are we scaling any of the 8-C's to? The only 8-C feat I remember getting calculated was Ohma's Iron Breaker.

 

[LordGinSama]

R1 Ohma wouldn’t scale to his iron breaker feat tho, right?

His R2 Iron-Breaker? No, that was post Restrains Unleashed Ohma, prior to that he's a lot weaker.

what value would he scale to?

Probably Karo's Whale Killer (9-A+.) or to Saw's Hammer of Burma (8-C.)

 

[azontr]

Probably Karo's Whale Killer (9-A+.) or to Saw's Hammer of Burma (8-C.)

I know about the whale calc but can you link Saw Paing's calc? I think I remember the feat your talking about but I don't think I ever saw a calc for it.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Probably Karo's Whale Killer (9-A+.) or to Saw's Hammer of Burma (8-C.)

Erm…I’m kinda concerned about that scaling.

Hammer of Burma was strongly implied to be capable of One shotting Base Rei, and was clearly presented as being more powerful then any other attack in his arsenal. I would argue that no one should scale.

I think him scaling to Whale Burial could work, but we’d need like, actual reasoning for that. I don’t think it would be good for the profiles if we just assumed he was comparable.

 

[azontr]

I agree with scaling Ohma based on Hammer of Burma seems a little farfetched, but I can definitely agree with scaling R1 Ohma to 9-A+. I don't think anything implies that Ohma and Yoshinari are inherently superior or inferior to each other, though, so we'd need good reasoning for it.

 

[Kachon123]

Yooo everything looks fine to me. Great work Gin and everyone else who helped out!

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Bump.

I uh, would argue the story portrays Karo as physically stronger than most of the “lower tiers” tbh.

Karo has enough physical strength to one-shot Saw Paing with a well-placed hit, someone whose durability is above pretty much any other lower tiers character due to his superhuman skeleton. He’s also shown to send him flying backward with a single Whale Burial.

For Comparison, Rei had significant trouble even doing lasting damage to Saw Paing, unable to deal much damage despite landing an unguarded strike to his spine.

So it’s clear, in terms of physical might there's at least somewhat of a gap between Karo and some other characters in the tournament, even among lower tiers.

This is further supported by Karo’s trunk muscles being directly compared to Adam. Someone who was strong enough to send R1 Cosmo flying with a single solid hit, and was implied to be capable of one-shotting him from a disadvantageous position, should he land a clean hit. Even though Cosmo only suffered around 3 solid blows from Adam, he was barely able to stand afterwards, and suffered from Full Body contusions that lasted even to round 2.

I say all that to say that Karo is clearly in the upper echelon of strength, in terms of mid-tiers. If anyone is scaling they would be scaling below him, for the most part.

 

[LordGinSama]

Very good analysis!

I agree with what ya wrote there, but there's something that could possibly help R1 Ohma scale. (This could have been R2 Ohma but I'd need to look into it again.) but wasn't Ohma prior to fighting Raian able to fight against Adam Dudley in his Imaginary training which is real in verse?

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Oh yeah. Now that you mention it. In Chapter 81 he did fight against both Adam and Gozo in his dream world.

Though he did so by By redirecting his own power against him, before seemingly knocking him out with Iron Breaker. He never actually endured or directly matched Adam physically.

The scaling itself is a bit iffy with that too, as Phantom Niko stated Ohma couldn't draw out their full power due to his limited knowledge of them.

Still, I'm neutral on scaling Ohma to it.

 

[Deceived3596]

Bump

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump

 

[LordGinSama]

Oh yeah. Now that you mention it. In Chapter 81 he did fight against both Adam and Gozo in his dream world.

Though he did so by By redirecting his own power against him, before seemingly knocking him out with Iron Breaker. He never actually endured or directly matched Adam physically.

It's still the fact that he fight against said characters, he could simply downscale even as a possibly.

The scaling itself is a bit iffy with that too, as Phantom Niko stated Ohma couldn't draw out their full power due to his limited knowledge of them.

Iirc Ohma saw both fights in the tournament, if anything I've taken that statement when it comes to their fighting style, more so Gozo since Adam is well, uh a normal brawler.

Still, I'm neutral on scaling Ohma to it.

Even as a possibly?

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Thinking on it, downscaling should work, yeah. Your right, that could be more a reference to their fighting strategy and techniques than anything else. And if he's capable of knocking out Adam, he should be fine with scaling roughly below his value. Though I'd prefer if we could find more concrete feats for him if it were possible.


Though uh, speaking of dreams and their scaling. How are we handling Gozo?

Ohma seemingly believes that he can Drop Gozo with a single kick, while the latter is off his guard.

Yet we saw in his fight with Wakatsuki that Gozo could endure a sucker punch to his face, and continue fighting moments later. With Waka admitting he wasn't holding back his strength.

Not sure how his scaling is going to work with our ratings.

 

[azontr]

Though uh, speaking of dreams and their scaling. How are we handling Gozo?

Ohma seemingly believes that he can Drop Gozo with a single kick, while the latter is off his guard.

Yet we saw in his fight with Wakatsuki that Gozo could endure a sucker punch to his face, and continue fighting moments later. With Waka admitting he wasn't holding back his strength.

Not sure how his scaling is going to work with our ratings.

I mean, do we accept that Ohma's mental fight training is always 100% correct? That can just be an inconsistency on Gozo's strength, on Ohma's part, at least.

As you said, Gozo was also off his guard in the mental world. So unless we scale Ohma's mental training 1:1 to the actual physical versions of the characters, I don't see why Gozo's actual feats wouldn't take precedence over Ohma's mental depiction of him.

 

[LordGinSama]

Thinking on it, downscaling should work, yeah. Your right, that could be more a reference to their fighting strategy and techniques than anything else. And if he's capable of knocking out Adam, he should be fine with scaling roughly below his value. Though I'd prefer if we could find more concrete feats for him if it were possible.


Though uh, speaking of dreams and their scaling. How are we handling Gozo?

Ohma seemingly believes that he can Drop Gozo with a single kick, while the latter is off his guard.

Ohma struck his cheek and chin, the chin being the notable part since in Kengan striking the chin with great force tends to ignore durability via rating the brain inside the skull.

Yet we saw in his fight with Wakatsuki that Gozo could endure a sucker punch to his face, and continue fighting moments later. With Waka admitting he wasn't holding back his strength.

I wouldn't take Wakatsuki's statement seriously tbh, it's pretty common in Kengan where characters make false statements like that. Wakatsuki did also ultimately injure Gozo heavily with that strike.

Not sure how his scaling is going to work with our ratings.

Gozo is an odd one tbh. You can argue he scales to a cautious Wakatsuki (He definitely doesn't scale to normal Wakatsuki given that Wakatsuki sent him flying and dealt tremendous damage with a single well placed punch.)

 

[azontr]

Can we downscale Gozo's durability from Wakatsuki? Yeah he did kinda get folded but he took a direct hit. So downscaling also seems applicable in this case, like, specifically for Gozo's durability.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

I mean, do we accept that Ohma's mental fight training is always 100% correct? That can just be an inconsistency on Gozo's strength, on Ohma's part, at least.

As you said, Gozo was also off his guard in the mental world. So unless we scale Ohma's mental training 1:1 to the actual physical versions of the characters, I don't see why Gozo's actual feats wouldn't take precedence over Ohma's mental depiction of him.

I agree Gozo's real-world feats should take precedence over the dream world, yeah.

But then, if we don't accept it being accurate for Gozo, then that casts more doubt on it being accurate for Adam. Which is partly why I brought it up.

Ohma struck his cheek and chin, the chin being the notable part since in Kengan striking the chin with great force tends to ignore durability via rating the brain inside the skull.

I'm cautious to accept this. Solely because when we see Gozo get hit, we see that blood is flying from his mouth, and his teeth are visibly being knocked out. Meaning that the damage he inflicted was more than just brain rattling.

I wouldn't take Wakatsuki's statement seriously tbh, it's pretty common in Kengan where characters make false statements like that. Wakatsuki did also ultimately injure Gozo heavily with that strike.

The thing is though, that Waka was confirmed to be afraid of Gozo in that very panel. And he clearly respected Gozo enough to view him as a legitimate threat. I think it's easier to assume that he did decide to use all of his strength, than to think he lied to multiple characters about how serious he was taking their brief fight.

Gozo is an odd one tbh. You can argue he scales to a cautious Wakatsuki (He definitely doesn't scale to normal Wakatsuki given that Wakatsuki sent him flying and dealt tremendous damage with a single well placed punch.)

I think I agree with Azontr's suggestion of downscaling his durability here, honestly. Your right, Gozo did get crushed by a single well-placed punch, but that doesn't take away the fact that he did manage to endure multiple blows beforehand, only ultimately getting knocked out once he dropped his guard after his knee kick.

 

[azontr]

Gozo also takes another direct hit from Wakatsuki, so, I don't see any real problem with specifically scaling his durability, if not just a downscale.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

It’s been awhile since I’ve been checking on this crt. Is there anything that still needs to be done?