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Read what was written on the blog previously
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Kengan revision (attempt number 2)
- Thread starter NikHelton
- Start date
- 13,392
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Karo explictly uses the same techniques he used to kill the whale on other fighters
The fact that the technique is called “Whale Burial, and he’s explicitly showing diving for the monster with nothing but a melee weapon, implies he killed it through physical force alone.
The fact that the technique is called “Whale Burial, and he’s explicitly showing diving for the monster with nothing but a melee weapon, implies he killed it through physical force alone.
azontr
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Whale scales to its own KE. Karo killed the whale with physical strength. Karo scales to whale KE. Very simple
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so stabbing isn't a thing?Whale scales to its own KE. Karo killed the whale with physical strength. Karo scales to whale KE. Very simple
why is the automatic assumption here is that he needs the same output as the whale to harm it?
he could have thrown the harpoon at it's eyes and damaged it's brain for all it matters, or even went and damaged it's insides
why is everyone suddenly assuming karo's output is the same as the whales because he killed it with an unkown method
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That fact that we KNOW his method of killing these creatures: “Whale Burial” is just a really strong forward thrust/punch, means it’s much simpler to assume he killed it through a powerful, forceful thrust and not anything more complicated.
There’s literally no reason to make so many extra assumptions here. Karo is a brute force fighter, he uses a brute force technique when killing large creatures.
There’s literally no reason to make so many extra assumptions here. Karo is a brute force fighter, he uses a brute force technique when killing large creatures.
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you're missing the point, sure he killed it via stabbing, but says literally nothing about where he stabbed it, if it was an insta kill how much time it took etc, you know literally nothing about the fight
matter of fact why does he scale to it's energy output to begin with?
energy density is a thing,It was created thousands of years ago when humans realized that if you make a pointy stick, focusing its energy on a very limited surface area, you do more damage than when the same amount of damage is spread out over a larger area, it's the reason a 100 lb woman in high heels outputs a PSI that's orders of magnitude greater than a 6000 lb elephant with every step, that doesn't mean women= elephant x 10(arbitrary number)
having a 50 ton of TNT as ouput was never a necessity to hurt that whale to begin with, another useless assumption you seem to have made is he needs to be as strong as the whale to harm it when literally nothing supports that narrative
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Location doesn't matter on a creature that big. Even if he went for the brain he'd need to stop the KE.
azontr
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Read the calculation comments. This was already addressed and the calc was accepted to scale even despite this fact.
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what KE is he stopping here and why are you assuming he did?
checked already, addressed is an overstatement
nothing here means he fought the thing with his bare hands
inverse square law is a thing, with the his ant like size compared to the whale he isn't even tanking a fraction of the output, and if the whale is accelerating towards him all the more reason he doesn't scale since if he threw the harpoon the fact that the whale is accelerating towards him works in his favor, it's like me running towards a wall filled with spikes
completely unfounded assumption
azontr
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Irrelevant. If he didn't scale to the whale having a harpoon wouldn't matter.
That's not how inverse square law works. You don't utilize inverse square law when a giant thing hits something smaller than it is.
Why would Karo throwing a harpoon be stronger than him punching.
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i'm not saying he isn't superhuman , i'm saying the idea that he scales at all to the full output of the whale is largely unfounded, why is scaling to the whale a neccessity for him to hurt it?
do you actually have any idea how much output it takes to damage the whale?
with surface area comes the inverse-square law, and with a giant 100 meters tall whale coming full force at 1,9m tall human it should apply, it's like trying to punch a fly or an ant on the air, exept it's a giant whale ramming full speed at a human in water
throwing goes like this
you focus your entire body strenght on your arm for maximum acceleration and thus to produce stronger throw
which seems to be what he is doing here
not to mention this
azontr
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do you not think the whale's durability scales to the Kinetic Energy it can output
Whale Burial is literally the exact same motion Karo utilized to kill the whale.
Not to mention, he did that while underwater, and for obvious reasons you can output more power and speed than you can out of water than while underwater.
Read above. Even with a sharp object, the fact doesn't change that he needs strength scaling to the whale to kill the whale.
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It's charging right at him and given the distance even if he went for the brain that wouldn't stop the momentum. He'd need to overpower the whale's KE to halt it completely.
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...do you genuinely think his skin is inch by inch as durable as his feat?
you do realize for to somehow be the case you have prove that every single inch of it's skin tanked the it's full energy output without also exponentially magnifying the total energy output, which is both ******** and impossible
you do not need the same strengh as the whale to hurt it, jesus christ who even thinks like this?
and how strong is it?
i would like your response to be substantiated and not based on random assumptions
and no he doesn't, already addressed
or, hear me out, kill the whale harmlessly tank a portion of the energy and wait for it's momentum to die down
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Love how you keep complaining about people using assumptions here despite you literally making enough assumptions to write an entire fanfic.
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Hey guys, just chiming in cause I saw the debate a while ago and it doesn't seem to have made much progress, I don't know the verse, however while normally we simplify durability such that just harming someone is a feat, stabbing a giant like this is probably pushing it a bit in that regard, especially given that harpoon hunting is specifically something that normal men could kill (normal-sized) whales with. Similarly if a man-sized target were to be hit head-on by such a massive object they would not need to withstand the entirety of its KE but only just a tiny portion.
azontr
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Why would I have to prove that every inch of the whale's skin tanked the force of its OWN Kinetic Energy??????
this question doesn't make sense.
You said that throwing is stronger than punching, I said that Karo is using the same harpoon throwing motion that he used to kill the whale when using Whale Burial so that doesn't even matter, then you're asking me how strong it is... I don't get it.
in what way did you address it
I don't necessarily agree with this, but saying you hypothetically are correct, how would you calculate the energy Karo would need to withstand?
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See I don't know for sure because this is underwater which would probably **** with things (it'd probably make the result higher) but it'd be something along these lines. Granted I think that formula is a lowball.
azontr
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Would you be willing to try to calculate it, if it's possible to do so while taking into account the fact it's underwater?
If it's not, would an alternative option be to downscale Karo from the whale KE, since we can't calculate the brunt of force he'd be taking/producing? Or is scaling relative to it in anyway simply not valid?
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- Thread starter
- #140
The sperm whale was moving towards Karo and he somehow had to face his KE.
People don't kill sperm whales with their bare hands. They have a special cannon for the harpoon and they wound him and exhaust him, not kill him with a single hit to the head.
One sperm whale's skin is 35 cm in real life, which would mean that his skin is 3.5 meters thick in the manga, and I'm even silent about the skull
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It'd probably end up like 9-B without- maybe with too (not that I know how to factor in the water).
I would say as a supporting feat it's fine, as a leading feat i'd just discard it tbh.
azontr
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I'll consider this as "It's not possible", then.
It doesn't scale to the entirety of the verse, just the mid-tiers.
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I mean it's definitely a superhuman feat, it's just not one that inherently scales I feel.
Seems fair
What's their (next) highest feat?
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exept i never tried to argue that's what actually happened, i just stated another possibility
because you claimed in order to hurt it with the harpoon he needs the same energy output, which isn't the case
i stated for your own assumption to make a lick of sens the ammount of energy it tanked should be inch by inch the same as the kinetic energy you provided, and that without also magnifying the total energy output, which is impossible
i guess this is my bad, i tought you were speaking on how strong the attack is
^
anyways, it seems this feat is discarded
i'm starved for content and this seems fun, so i will probably be reading kengan for a while
azontr
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Idk.
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azontr
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I mean I'm still gonna propose my downscaling option in my own thread lol, I'm only really here to yoink the calculations and use them for an actually organized scaling thread, because this is the exact opposite of organized.
- 3,077
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- Thread starter
- #148
- 3,077
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- Thread starter
- #149
DMUA said it makes sense because tier 9 won't be able to kill High 8-C even if it has a harpoon. Since then, the calculation has been updated and it is now 8-A.
Karo is the dude who sinks ships with his bare hands and strangles great white sharks. This feat was clearly accomplished with the help of physical strength.
High 8-C, 8-A, 7-C.
8-C and 8-B feats are also on the way.
Karo will somehow be downscale from higher exploits, however, taking into account this calculation, we gave him his own rating
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I mean... I still don't think he'd scale directly to the KE. Hell for a marine animal there's the argument that it doesn't either, they don't really crash into walls very often, assuming giant creatures can withstand their own KE is an assumption we typically make but it's still just that.
Yeah again, obviously, but that doesn't mean he scales directly to it.
Do the other 8-A/7-C feats scale to this character? Because if this is just a support feat it's fine
- 3,077
- 1,685
- Thread starter
- #151
Sperm whales ram each other when fighting for a mate, so they are able to maintain their KE
Let's just say - it scales up to this via downscale
Could you please check the calculations I gave above, please?
azontr
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No.
Low tiers scale to 9-A, high tiers scale to 8-A/7-C, Karo's whale Burial is meant to establish scaling for mid tiers.
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Even that sort of impact is going to disperse a lot of the energy, but regardless that's over like, 40 m^2 of area for this lad, the harpoon would affect a minuscule fraction of that.
Honestly I just think you guys are better off not using this but you might wanna get a second opinion since I'm not 100% sure myself.
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Kaneda = 8-A or 7-C
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Characters of the level of Chiba, Sawada, or, shall, Koga Narushima should be scaled to 8-A, characters of the level of Rihito, Kaneda, Saw Paing should be scaled to 8-A -- 7-C
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- Thread starter
- #157
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- Thread starter
- #158
Can you call DMUA, please?
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azontr
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No.
Only a few of those characters would actually scale to Whale Burial. Your scaling chain is completely off.
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