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Katekyo Hitman Reborn upgrades

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Xanxussama1010

Xanxussama1010

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Ciao. another KHR revision is here!

Things that need to be upgrades
First, Zakuro calc got recalc and upgrade to 897.33 megatons of TNT (Mountain level+). The feat is nearly Large Mountain level and Zakuro causally did the feat while in base form. So Zakuro with Box of carnage should be Large Mountain level. That's mean characters in Choice Arc also got upgrade to Mountain level+ to Large Mountain level too.

Second, Zakuro calc isn't the only one which got updated, The choice Arc X-Burner too, Which mean Choice Arc Tsuna will on 2.13 gigatons of TNT (Large Mountain level) with X-Burner and Cambio Forma

Third, now KHR has several tiers from Multipliers., that's mean all of them got upgrades too.

  • Byakura has 10x multiplier from null Tsuna's strongest technique without any flinch and he still used only 10% of his real power on that time, So Byakuran got upgrade to 2.13 x 10 = 21.3 gigatons of TNT (Island level)
  • Tsuna with Original Vongola Ring has 1.6x multiplier as he overpowered 80% Byakuran while using only 50% of power So Tsuna got upgrade to 21.3 x 1.6 = 34.08 gigatons of TNT (Island level). Tsuna's guardians with Original Vongola Ring should also upgrade to Island level as they shouldn't be far weaker than Tsuna.
  • Pre Full-Awakening Enma Kozato casually stomped Tsuna and his guardians with Original Vongola Ring at the same time. And Post Full-Awakening Enma has 7x multiplier by 7 times stronger than his previous self. if we assume that pre Enma at 34.08 Gigaton of TNT here, post Enma is still on 34.08 x 7 = 238.56 Gigaton of TNT (Large Island level). Note that this is really lowball as pre Enma actually stonp 34.08 gigatons along with other 4 person who didn't far from it. Character who comparable to him like VG Tsuna, Xanxus, Byakura, Mukuro, and Hibari are fully scale with this. Other characters like Tsuna's guardians also on Large Island level as they're shouldn't far weaker than him.
  • Daemon Spade has 10x multiplier as he is 10 times weaker when posses in Katou's body. By scaling, Daemon in Katou's body is Large Island level as he is comparable to Tsuna's guardians. So with his own body, he will be Small Country level, and strongest form of him will get At least Small Country level, Arcobaleno in true form like Mammo should also scale on this level.
  • Daemon when posses in Mukuro can create six copies of himself with the same amount of power. If they combine their power together, It can reach to Country level, So Daemon should have Country level when combine power of 6 bodies.
  • In Curse of the Rainbow Arc, Tsuna rapidly grow stronger enought to defeated a Vindice by himself, which make Bermuda stated that he must acknowledge Tsuna even Tsuna in the past can't even become a threat to them. That's mean both Daemon and Tsuna in the past can't even be comparable to Vindice. So all of Vicdice should be At least Country level as ther're on higher rank than both. Arcobalenos should also be on this rank as all of Vindice used to be Arcobaleno before.
  • With the reason above, current Tsuna should be on At least Country level for defeated a Vindice. Characters who can hold a fight against Vindice should be around Small Country level to Country level as they're shouldn't we far weaker than them.
  • Bermuda stomped Oath Flame current Tsuna with just two punches,so he should be on At least Country level, This also includes Rebor who can hold a fought against Bermuda, and Ultimate Dying Will Tsuna by easily defeated Bermuda when still holding back.
  • Kawahira has 10x multiplier as he produced flames about 10x greater than previous Tsuna, So he is on Large Country level
Ok, I hope that I didn't miss something

Summary
Mountain level+ to Large Mountain level: charavters at Choice Arc

Island level: Byakuran, OrinalVongola Ring Tsuna and his guardians

At least Island level: Pre Full-Awakening Enma

Large Island level: Post Full-Awakening Enma, several characters in Curse of Rainbow Arc

Small Country level: Daemon Spade (his own body)

At least Small Country level: Daemon Spade (Mukuro's body), ,

Small Country level to Country level: characters who can hold a fight against Vindice in last arc

At least Country level EoS Tsuna, Vindice, Arcobaleno

At least Country level, likely higher Oath Flame EoS Tsuna, Bermuda, Reborn, Ultimate Dying Will Tsuna

Large Country level: Kawahira
 
I agree with all of the solid scaling and multiplier stuffs. I'm just not sure how "upscaling" is supposed to work.

I thought we couldn't assume tiers/multipliers for stomps alone, and they need a sort of statement to support them.
 
I mean, some of verse like Nanatsu no Taizai have some tier come from upscale by stomp. So I think it can also use here. And the gap by upscales didn't too much. So I don't think it's unreliable.

But if most people disagree about it. I can fix it here.
 
I kinda disagree with the upscaling section. I think Nanatsu no Taizai upscale to another tier is because they not only have a higher scaling chain but also the calculation was very much on the higher end of the tier it was in like for the High 6-C calc was around 917 GT and due to the scaling chain, it would put character at baseline Low 6-B.

"Currently misused to an extraordinary degree on the wiki, the "+" symbol should only be used when the Attack Potency has been calculated to be greater than the average (arithmetic mean) of the high end energy level and low end energy level of a particular tier." - Attack Potency Page

Unless the feat calculated put it as such or due to multipliers, there is no need to put add a '+'. Just slap on a 'At least' or 'likely higher' and call it a day.

So for Enma, just put him as "At least Island level" for being >34GT. Same goes with Oath Flames Tsuna
 
Looks fine, but I would be nice if you could invite more supporters of the verse as well as staff members so they are okay with this change as well.
 
Also Mukuro with Verde's equipment could effect on the vindice and with Chrome they took down 2 of them. I geuss the vindice should have a profiles here especially Jaeger.
 
"Pre Full-Awakening Enma Kozato casually stomped Tsuna and his guardians with Original Vongola Ring at the same time. And Post Full-Awakening Enma has 7x multiplier by 7 times stronger than his previous self. if we assume that pre Enma at 34.08 Gigaton of TNT here, post Enma is still on 34.08 x 7 = 238.56 Gigaton of TNT (Large Island level)." He stomped Tsuna with his guardians together easily then he is on the same level with Tsuna? Edit: I have heard once that to stomp someone in power you should be stronger than him by a number of times I forget that number Lol
 
Daemon with 6 copies was stated to be stronger by 6 times than before. Those are all the things I can remember right now.
 
@YukaSama Can you give be scan about Reborn consider Hibari? I want to see real context for right decision

About Enma, that's why I noted that it is really lowball as we don't know exact number of pre Enma. One-Shot gap is the things we use in versus thread for connsider matches that it's stomp or not. It can't be used on scaling. The page also clearly state rhat "This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse."

Again, scan for Daemon, I want to see real context for right decision.
 
The tiering and scaling proposals in the OP look fine, to me.

I am curious though about about YukaSama4's points and would be willing to support them assuming if he got the scans justifications
 
Okay but now I'm going to the school I will get back after like 7 hours. Then I will put a links for everything above.
 
After that Enma decided to stop Daemon from moving so Tsuna can destroy all of his copies with xx burner and Tsuna succeeded to deal a real damage ( chapter 342 you can read it with the link above its very close to chapter 342), honestly there are many points I want to put here but Im going now, I will put it here when I get back.
 
Thank you for scan. This is my opinion.

About Hibari rival Tsuna. It should be just rival with Tsuna with Vongola Gear but not Oath Flame. Tsuna only has Oath Flame when combine with Enma's Simon Ring. So Tsuna on that state is just Vongola Gear and not Oath Flame. Furthermore, If Hibari rival Oath Flame Tsuna, it will make a contradiction since he should be the one who easily stomp Daemon Spade and didn't need Tsuna to use Oath Flame to defeat him.

About Daemon, Multiply by six should be mean number of himself but not AP. He duplicate himself to six with all of them has the same AP. And damage will be decreased by 1/6 should be Damage Reduction, which make all of bodies only got 1/6 of damage, which is the reason that opponents must attack six bodies at the same time to make him got full normal damage. But it didn't give increase in his AP.
 
Well yeah the first point may be right. About Daemon yeah he duplicated himself to 6 each one of them has the same AP. So when they attack together the attacks will be 6 times stronger than before. Example A his damage and attack potency is 20 gigatons he duplicated himself to 6 with the same AP so when they attack together it will be like stronger by *6 times, isnt this right?
 
I once saw something which is somehow similar to this in dragon ball. Beerus and champs if they fight they will destroy 2 universes so any character is stronger than them combined is 2-C, and here if daemon want to destroy a country but his AP is small country level he can make 6 copies and attackÏî their attack together will be 6 times stronger so it will probably destroy a country, and any character who is stronger than the 6 copies together will be a country level too. Can't we just use this?
 
I think that I understand what you're trying to say.

Daemon can go 6 times stronger by duplication. And each body can only get 1/6 damage. To defeated 6 bodies at same time. You need 6x stonger than Small Country level to defeated him. Did I understand right?
 
Yes as we can see in the photo Mukuro stated that Daemon's power increased 6 times than before and if you hit the real one of the 6 copies he will get only 1/6 damage as you can see in the photo above so Tsuna needed to attack all the 6 at once with his full power to deal a real damage. If he is small country level then by 6 copies and every copy has the power he used to use before duplication then the 6 copies together are 6 times stronger than small country level I think its like this.. Elizhaa told me that she will reply here later so we can wait for her or for another knowledgeable member to come..until that I will try to search for another things in the manga that might help.
 
+ Tsuna in VG Cambio Forma could harm Daemon Spade very bad by XX Burner so he should be small country level if Daemon is small country.
 
Xanxussama1010 said:
I think that I understand what you're trying to say.
Daemon can go 6 times stronger by duplication. And each body can only get 1/6 damage. To defeated 6 bodies at same time. You need 6x stonger than Small Country level to defeated him. Did I understand right?
Click to expand...
Imagine yourself as a character in the series and you are equal to Daemon then Daemon duplicated himself and became 6 copies each one of them is equal to you.
 
Ok, I guess I'm fine with that. And I can tell that 6x of Small Country level is Country level.

If that in case Daemon is At least Small Country level and Country level ny combine six bodies of them. Character who stronger than Daemon will also n Country level, Am I right?

I will wait some period for others to see, if there're not objection, I guess this can be uodate on OP.
 
I agree definitely with these upgrades. The scaling and multipliers in KHR are some of the most consistent things

Happy that KHR is being upgraded as well
 
Xanxussama1010 said:
Ok, I guess I'm fine with that. And I can tell that 6x of Small Country level is Country level.
If that in case Daemon is At least Small Country level and Country level ny combine six bodies of them. Character who stronger than Daemon will also n Country level, Am I right?

I will wait some period for others to see, if there're not objection, I guess this can be uodate on OP.
Click to expand...
so Tsuna, Reborn, Bermuda, Jaeger and Kawahira are all country level.
 
AstralKing7 said:
I agree definitely with these upgrades. The scaling and multipliers in KHR are some of the most consistent things
Happy that KHR is being upgraded as well
Click to expand...
Same Lol, It doesnt make sense that Kawahira ( with his breathing only) who can one shot Tsuna who can one shot Bermuda who can one shot Jaeger who can one shot Xanxus who can one shot Squallo are all Island level xD.
 
I'm still hopeful for some kind of continuation/reboot sometime before my life is over.

Now, we just gotta get that ability stuff checked off the list.

Stuff like this. Then we can move on the the potential resistance additions, a few other minor ability additions (Like either Spatial Manipulation or just plain durability negation for Enma and possibly Tsuna), and novel stuffs (From the single fan translated chapter...)
 
I found some things that might help but Im not so sure about it so we can talk about it here.

First, Hibari will be Small country level for THIS and THIS

Mukuro will be Large Island: defeated Daemon Spade who is comparable to Tsuna guardians like Lambo and Gokudera, Small Country level with Verde's equipmant ( comparable to Hibari), and he also could deal a real damage to 2 members of the Vindice ( one of the Vindice could defeat all Varia members and he Exhausted Xanxus who is stronger than Hibari).

Tsuna in his VG and VG Cambio Forma will be small country level ( should not be weaker than Hibari).

Enma too.

Other guardians will be Large Island they dont have any feat proves they are higher.

Xanxus will be small country level ( was stated to be stronger than Hibari)

Byakuran will be small country level ( should be on par with Hibari and Xanxus)

Verde in his machine is also small country level for his fight against Jaeger he did better than Xanxus, Byakuran and others..(chapter399)

Arcobaleno in their true forms will be At least small country level except Reborn is country level.

Jaeger will be country level I think..

Edit: Iemetsu will be small country or at least small country.

What do you say about this?
 
Mukuro and Chrome did a combine feat in the last arc I dont know what it will be they took down 2 of the Vindice. Maybe, At least small country level?
 
Erm... isn't that self contradition.... I mean... We use Enma's AP to scale Daemon and then we push Enma to Daemon level? That's seem unreasonable. Also, Daemon let Hibari hurt him by purpose as he want to show Maximum Sunshine Counter. So he still hold his owm on that time. So I don't think that make sense.
 
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