- 1,187
- 797
You're not wrong but hopefully it'll get better soon. The current issue is still determining Maki's scaling, right?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade
- Thread starter EldemadeDityjon
- Start date
- Status
- 21,468
- 30,790
So from what I see, the consensus is that Maki scales to that Sukuna, it's just debatable if he's perfectly fine, holding back, or being hindered in movement
- 21,468
- 30,790
Not to just milk arguments into the thread but I'm pretty sure Yuta is relative in speed to Shibuya Yuji as well, who I'm pretty sure falls under the speed wall
- 2,338
- 1,833
She's formulating responses based on the information network she is given from her senses. Meaning she is perceiving the effects of a match 3 projectile in the air and thus there is no way to divorce this perception from her reactions.
This isn't the same thing. Maki isn't sensing his intent and somehow psychically figuring out his moves. She is literally feeling the environment around her as a network of information and utilizing her enhanced senses to react better. This isn't a mode or an ability, it's literally just her new base of perceptions.
A more apt comparison would be someone standing with a bullet chambered at 10m. They fire without warning and you utilize the minute disruption of the bullet piercing through the air from the chamber to calculate the trajectory of the projectile and then casually dodge the bullet as it arrives.
I've not seen it done, but as I said earlier, this isn't the case here as it's just her base senses.
Not really, as I mentioned, Toji being invisible is moot of Gojo can track his movements and keep up with him physically. We saw Gojo do this vs Sukuna as he literally chased him through the city and domains, but here Toji is clearly using his speed to great effect and Gojo specifically wonders about his level of speed. The invisibility was just an aggravating factor to the main issue of speed.
That is one aspect of sensing not the only one. They also have their base senses. Which Toji was too much for.
I disagree, you keep claiming this but nothing is convincing over what I linked.
He has to in order to coordinate his flight and hit targets.
Good work, now calc mach 3 from 100m away and let me know that result. I bet it's a lot under subsonic+, like orders of magnitude.
You mean she'd react to the distrubances, which is what she did.
Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,758
- 1,871
Maybe the raws of this should be provided because as it stands now, option 1 is pretty clear cut.This is what Viz says
- 21,468
- 30,790
I'm about to just tackle this all at once below.
Speed Standard Issues: Regarding The Flight Speed Standards
After taking a deeper look and thought into the newly recent standards added for flight speed, I found issues that I want to point out and discuss. And im putting this in the Q & A forum first as I want normal users to be able to weigh in on this too. Obviously if things go..."sideways", then...
100/1029 = 0.09718172983 seconds
Peak Human.
Everything else is just semantics.
The other senses allow her to react to Naoya in a way that her eyes alone can't do.
That goes against regular reactions for her eyesight which is what we mainly chart.
This "buddhist principle of enlightenment" being a new mechanic in the verse is quite literally entirely headcanon. Like blatantly headcanon. Never stated, shown, implied, proven, thought of, or even mentioned.
Maki has never had a statement of getting faster. Maki has never has anything showing her eyesight has improved. She gained Toji's body when Mai died and she kept the same body after her realization. The only thing that did it was her new senses that let her combat him. This is the whole point of the sumo session.
She only canonically crossed paths with Mach 3 Naoya once. The other time is supported speculation which is also contradicted. He usually needs to accelerate a lot, yet he blatantly stopped moving right before he was about to hit her, meaning he lost all of his gained speed.
Maki has nothing putting her to Mach 3 or above
KingNanaya
He/Him- 2,982
- 4,146
damn
- 2,338
- 1,833
Will tackle this in onde address when back at my cpuI'm about to just tackle this all at once below.
No he does notSpeed Standard Issues: Regarding The Flight Speed Standards
After taking a deeper look and thought into the newly recent standards added for flight speed, I found issues that I want to point out and discuss. And im putting this in the Q & A forum first as I want normal users to be able to weigh in on this too. Obviously if things go..."sideways", then...vsbattles.com
100/1029 = 0.09718172983 seconds
Peak Human.
Everything else is just semantics.
The other senses allow her to react to Naoya in a way that her eyes alone can't do.
That goes against regular reactions for her eyesight which is what we mainly chart.
This "buddhist principle of enlightenment" being a new mechanic in the verse is quite literally entirely headcanon. Like blatantly headcanon. Never stated, shown, implied, proven, thought of, or even mentioned.
Maki has never had a statement of getting faster. Maki has never has anything showing her eyesight has improved. She gained Toji's body when Mai died and she kept the same body after her realization. The only thing that did it was her new senses that let her combat him. This is the whole point of the sumo session.
She only canonically crossed paths with Mach 3 Naoya once. The other time is supported speculation which is also contradicted. He usually needs to accelerate a lot, yet he blatantly stopped moving right before he was about to hit her, meaning he lost all of his gained speed.
Maki has nothing putting her to Mach 3 or above
- 10,920
- 19,011
Following, I might comment later, idk yet though since this thread is beyond long.
Arkenis
They/Them- 16,842
- 7,737
I wasn't being hostile. Just said it how it is.
And this is quite possibly the second funniest thing I've seen from this verse's scaling lol. Hakari, the mach 500 demon didn't perceive a domain in less than 0.01 seconds, yet he can activate his domain faster than Mahito who did his in 0.2 seconds. At this point Gege is deadass telling us and being consistent that they have at best subsonic reactions, activations, and perception. We also have Todo who has 0.01s reactions as well.Yeah
If ya really still in here tryna argue for these characters being Mach 500 you are just ignoring Gege.
- 4,108
- 3,129
I'm not saying you should scale to Gojo, I'm saying they are around Kenjaku who's far inferior to 15F Sukuna because he was able to stop the Gojo who was going to kill Kenjaku.
And no Kenjaku didn't react to anything there, Gojo told him it's his last words and completely attacked in a fast speed that Kenjaku didn't see that's why he sweated, if he could see Gojo coming there would be no need to sweat alot like that when he was standing casually before this, he didn't need to make an expression.
No I don't have to say 15F Sukuna is above Gojo, all what I need to say is that both 15F Sukuna and Gojo are far above the likes of Kenjaku, Gojo knew he can finish Kenjaku quickly but he didn't want to fight Sukuna there, tried to speed blitz and kill Kenjaku quickly but Sukuna managed to tag him.
Gojo even made fun of Sukuna because he's taking orders from someone like Kenjaku
Because Sukuna tried to mock Gojo 200 chapters ago because Gojo wasn't the leader since he's the strongest and said "what a disappointment"
She doesn't scale to a full powered 15F Sukuna as I just explained, and no if you will argue she's on 15F Sukuna's level in speed then she will be able to dogwalk Kenjaku since that's what Gojo was gonna do before being stopped by 15F Sukuna
Gojo (when he wanted to kill Kenjaku) ~ 15F Sukuna >>> Kenjaku
I put (when he wanted to kill Kenjaku) because later on we knew Gojo can keep up with 20F Sukuna, but in that instance, he used enough agility and CE reinforcements to kill Kenjaku.
No you're misinterpreting that scene.
1) I'm not saying Kenjaku is a last resort for Kenjaku, because that's not what the cast plan was in anyway
Their plan was to fight Sukuna if he kills Gojo
And to fight Kenjaku if Gojo kills Sukuna
Yuta in the same scan replied to Maki by saying "if we kill Sukuna now, we won't need that insurance"
So Yuta is an insurance for Sukuna.
And no it doesn't go against my point
Because Yuta is most of their insurance, if he died that would be a problem, but Maki isn't as strong as Yuta so if she died that would be less harmful to the plan
And no Maki can't fight 20F Sukuna, you're missing the context, Yuta was referring to holding back Mahoraga and Agito so Gojo can kill Sukuna because they thought Sukuna already used everything and we know that Gojo was superior in 1vs1 against Sukuna, Maki said but you're all our insurance, if someone has to go then it's me because we can't let you die, so she's basically saying I should be the one who tries to hold them off of Gojo until he kills Sukuna since my death won't leave a big impact like on the plan like your death.
No Kenjaku doesn't scale to Sukuna lol, he feared to battle Gojo and admitted that his backup plan in case the seal didn't work is to have Gojo fight with 15F Sukuna
Which proves that 15F Sukuna is superior to teen Gojo by the way, which you didn't reply to.
Again you're just trying to interpret that statement in a way that goes in line with your scaling while ignoring the context
Megumi said "it's as fast as that time, maybe even faster"
Then he said "his speed rivals Sukuna"
He basically wasn't sure if it's the same speed or maybe faster but after getting chased by Toji after that he came to the conclusion that his speed rivals Sukuna
So far I've proposed 3 scaling chains supported by evidence from the manga and you didn't manage to reply to them properly so I will write it again as a summary
15F Sukuna >> Kenjaku ~ the heavy hitters (individually since their plan is to jump him together and he wanted to avoid fighting them)
15F Sukuna >> 3F Sukuna ~ Toji
15F Sukuna > teen Gojo > Toji
- 4,108
- 3,129
Off topic but regarding this, Mahito's domain was faster since the activation of his CT became one step with casting his domain, Hakari still has fast activation of CT inside the domain but its not mentioned that its the same step
Edit: regarding the OP I can see how this might create some inconsistencies in the scaling, so I'm waiting for Duedate's post while discussing Maki's scaling to 15F Sukuna
Last edited:
- 3,780
- 4,080
He jumped in to attack Gojo while Gojo was attacking Kenjaku, also you’re forgetting that Sukuna had the use of his CT here while he didn’t have it against Maki. Big distinction there since Maki is only scaling to their physicals while Kenjaku is talking about a Sukuna with the use of his CT. So again, being “far inferior” to someone doesn’t mean you don’t scale to their stats, especially when talking about CT since Maki would’ve gotten killed by Sukuna’s CT had he been able to make use of it, but can still box with him and content with him in stats.
Yes he did, you’re not the arbiter of interpretations, you have no evidence Kenjaku “didn’t see” Gojo’s attack was coming “and that’s why he sweated.” That’s just an interpretation you’ve posited that you can’t prove, the fact of the matter is that the sequence goes Gojo tries to punch Kenjaku, Kenjaku starts sweating, and Sukuna intercepts the attack. The fact that Kenjaku had a reaction to the attack coming towards him means he wasn’t blitzed by the attack like you say, the attack could’ve just been “too strong” for him to deal with instead of “too fast” like you claim.
Sukuna being stronger than Kenjaku doesn’t disprove Maki scaling to Sukuna as I’ve already mentioned since you can be massively inferior to someone and still be able to scale to them. Also Gojo never blitzed Kenjaku since like I already proved, he clearly reacts to Gojo’s attack as it’s coming towards him. Meaning your whole basis for your argument is moot since it hinges on Kenjaku not being able to react to Gojo and 15F Sukuna, when in fact he clearly does:No I don't have to say 15F Sukuna is above Gojo, all what I need to say is that both 15F Sukuna and Gojo are far above the likes of Kenjaku, Gojo knew he can finish Kenjaku quickly but he didn't want to fight Sukuna there, tried to speed blitz and kill Kenjaku quickly but Sukuna managed to tag him.
Gojo even made fun of Sukuna because he's taking orders from someone like Kenjaku
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_011.png
Again Sukuna being above Kenjaku doesn’t disprove Maki scaling at all. Maki was just boxing Sukuna without his CT, here Sukuna has his CT fully ready. You’re talking about big distinctions in a person’s kit here.Because Sukuna tried to mock Gojo 200 chapters ago because Gojo wasn't the leader since he's the strongest and said "what a disappointment"
Yes she does as I’ve just explained and shown with multiple panels of her blatantly keeping up with and fighting Sukuna, him even complimenting how well she’s performing.
Again, Kenjaku was never speedblitzed by Gojo’s attack, he clearly reacted to it as it was heading towards him. You posited headcanon and say that “the reason Kenjaku was sweating was because he couldn’t see the attack coming”
But again, that interpretation of yours has no proof to it. Kenjaku having a reaction to the attack coming towards him= him reacting to the attack, that’s just the fact of the matter.
Again already disproved this scaling chain. The whole basis for the argument hinges on Kenjaku not being able to react to an attack 15F Sukuna is able to see, however we clearly see Kenjaku reacting to said attack as it’s heading towards him.
No, it’s you who’s misinterpreting the scene.
As Maki explains, she and the rest of the team wanted to step in against Sukuna while Yuta stayed as “insurance” for Kenjaku. If Gojo was to beat Sukuna though then that insurance wouldn’t be necessary because as Mei Mei explains, the rest of them ganging up could take on Kenjaku. So that’s what Yuta’s plan was, to help Gojo beat Sukuna, so the rest of them could take on Kenjaku at once. But if Yuta died along with Gojo there then there would be no insurance they would have against Kenjaku since they just lost their other top fighter.
So Yuta was insurance for Kenjaku, that’s why Maki was the one who wanted to step in to fight Sukuna instead of Yuta. What you say doesn’t make sense because if Yuta was insurance for Sukuna then Maki wouldn’t have offered to step in, in Yuta’s place.
Yes it goes directly against your point actually. The fact that Maki is willing to step up and help Gojo against Sukuna just so that they could keep Yuta as insurance for Kenjaku directly contradicts your notion that Kenjaku doesn’t scale to the likes of 15F Sukuna.
This same Yuta was about to step in to fight against 20F Sukuna’s Shikigami, including Mahoraga. So the fact that the characters want to save him as insurance for Kenjaku, proves to the point that Kenjaku would in fact scale.
For Kenjaku. Yuta was all their insurance for Kenjaku, Mei Mei clarifies this by citing how if Gojo won against Sukuna, their plan was to all take on Kenjaku since they believe they could beat him. That was their plan. If Gojo won then there would be no need for Yuta as insurance because they could all probably beat Kenjaku, but if Gojo lost to Sukuna, then they’d need to jump Sukuna, so they needed to keep at least Yuta off to the side as “insurance” for Kenjaku.
Yes he does as I’ve shown lmao. Fearing Gojo doesn’t mean not scaling to 15F Sukuna, also what scan are you referring to are you referring to when you say Kenjaku wanted 15F Sukuna to face Gojo and how does this probe 15F Sukuna is superior to Gojo when Kenjaku doesn’t even know how strong Gojo fully is.
The statement is being interpreted as is, the fact that Megumi said “maybe faster” shows that 3F Sukuna is not his limit speed.
Yeah “rivaling” here can also still mean Toji is superior to Sukuna, not inferior. You can be superior to someone and still rival them. The fact that he says “as fast if not faster” proves that he’s only speaking equal to annd above when he says “rivaling.”Then he said "his speed rivals Sukuna"
He basically wasn't sure if it's the same speed or maybe faster but after getting chased by Toji after that he came to the conclusion that his speed rivals Sukuna
Also the fact that there’s the argument that Toji isn’t going all out against his child Megumi, but you keep on ignoring that argument.
Actually I have replied to them and demonstrated why their incredibly incorrect multiple times now.
You have literally just ignored the argument presented before you.
I have already responded to this notion multiple times now and you have continually refused to address the arguments presented. So I’ll repeat myself again.
Toji can’t be equal to 3F Sukuna. Toji is superior to Naobito who is even faster than the 8F level Jogo. Megumi’s statement isn’t a cap on Toji’s speed for multiple reasons which I’ve just laid out.
- 21,468
- 30,790
Arkenis
They/Them- 16,842
- 7,737
Superior is a stretch. After Maki obtains her body, the body equal to Toji, she's still getting rocked by Naoya. I would say that what made Toji superior is his senses, the senses we end up seeing being needed to deal with Cursed Naoya.
- 21,468
- 30,790
If I could pin this I would
- 3,780
- 4,080
It’s an author statement said in the fan book saying that Toji is better than Naobito.
I think it’s a mix of both tbh. Don’t get me wrong the senses are busted and really help, but at the same time, you gotta remember curse Naoya is more durable than Hanami who is like significantly more durable than Jogo. And Maki just stood while he crashed into her at literally Mach 3.
I think that can be a testament in of itself of Maki’s sheer endurance of taking such a brutal physical hit and then being able to move her body so well that she can casually avoid Naoya’s incoming attacks, while also boxing him:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_197_012.png
So yeah, personally I don’t see that as a point against Toji being better than Jogo.
- 21,468
- 30,790
Did he just say "better"? Because that ain't really good enough for speed of a speedster
- 3,780
- 4,080
It was something about him being the he’s dog clan if I remember right. But it’s not just that,
There’s also the fact that Naoya’s whole existence is for the purposes of glazing Toji, meanwhile he has zero regard for, you know….his freaking father lol.
- 21,468
- 30,790
Yeah cause Toji was the guy strong enough to wash his whole clan with no technique or energy
Idk Toji being above Naobito isn't supported speed wise
- 3,780
- 4,080
Let me put it like this, Toji suddenly appears to the shock of everybody:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_02.jpg
This was Maki’s reaction to seeing Toji suddenly pop in front of her with no technique while he was upside down in mid-air:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_03.jpg
Upon witnessing the newly revived Toji, this was Naobito’s reaction to one look at his face:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_05.jpg
Toji then proceeds to absolutely decimate and annihilate Dagon in a showing of pure speed and power, better than any previous showing by any character against Dagon at that point:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_08.jpg
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_10.jpg
Naoya, being the son of Naobito with the very same technique no less and the next clan heir in line of the Zenin clan due to his superiority…gets absolutely schlumped by a pre-awakened Maki that’s not on Toji’s level, (and she compares Naoya’s speed to Naobito’s as both being “extremely fast” no less):
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_151_015.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_151_016.png
Naoya then comes back as a cursed spirits in which he specifically gets a major speed amp, and then proceeds to get absolutely dogwalked by Maki (version 2) to the point where he was absolutely raging the literal instant she got on Toji’s level:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_197_006.png
I think we can fairly put Maki and Toji above Naobito in speed.
- 4,108
- 3,129
Perceiving a Gojo who was going to blitz and kill Kenjaku and then blocking him will make you far above Kenjaku in speed and strength, his CT does not matter her because this scene alongside the other things I brought are mainly about physical stats
Gojo was going to blitz Kenjaku and kill him, Sukuna stopped him, Gojo didn't notice Sukuna when he came so Sukuna wasn't close but he immediately came and stopped Gojo, that has nothing to do with CTs, it's just Gojo and Sukuna clearly being far above Kenjaku in stats, if Maki is on 15F Sukuna's speed she can blitz Kenjaku and screw him up since Sukuna can react and block a Gojo who was going to blitz Kenjaku.
It's not an interpretation, you literally just made this up, Gojo immediately attacked and Kenjaku started sweating because he couldn't see Gojo, then Sukuna stopped him, you are the one who has to show that Kenjaku can react and block that Gojo because that's not implied at all in that scene, it's a conclusion that you came to because the scene contradicts your scaling
If Sukuna could react and act like 15F Sukuna he wouldn't have been stunned their sweating as if he doesn't know what to do, he clearly didn't see Gojo and that's why he shat on himself.
You didn't prove show anything, almost everything I've brought up is related to speed but you couldn't bring anything other than CTs.
Sukuna blitzed Ryu.
Sukuna stopped a Gojo who was going to blitz Kenjaku.
Sukuna is above 3F Sukuna who rivals Toji in speed.
There's just too much evidence that makes Maki far below Sukuna.
And no you didn't prove he reacted to Gojo you literally made it up.
You also made this up, my arguments are clearly showing speed feats or statements so saying its because of his CT is just way too much headcanon to take.
Complimenting someone was already refuted by @EldemadeDityjon and myself
Summary: Maki says Kenjaku is a challenge, the same Kenjaku who was clearly shown to be slower than Gojo and 15F Sukuna
15F Sukuna blitzed Ryu who can keep up with Yuta whom you just conceded in your post to be above Maki as I will mention later on in this post
And just like you basically do in every discussion, you again made something up and trying to push a case of "equal interpretations"
Gojo stands in front of Kenjaku
Tells him he's about to get executed
Goes to attack him
Kenjaku starts to sweat and doesn't make any move
Sukuna jumps to stop Gojo
It's clear asf that Kenjaku was gonna get slaughtered there, you literally changed it to "well Gojo attacked, Kenjaku can react and stop him like how Sukuna did but he just sweated there for no reason, now this is what happened and your interpretation is a headcanon"
Nothing was disproved
Kenjaku was not mentioned in that statement talking about insurance but Sukuna was the one to get mentioned, in fact Yuta and Yuji didn't know about the strategy that Mei Mei mentioned, so no you can't use that as an interpretation to Yuta's wordsNo, it’s you who’s misinterpreting the scene.
As Maki explains, she and the rest of the team wanted to step in against Sukuna while Yuta stayed as “insurance” for Kenjaku. If Gojo was to beat Sukuna though then that insurance wouldn’t be necessary because as Mei Mei explains, the rest of them ganging up could take on Kenjaku. So that’s what Yuta’s plan was, to help Gojo beat Sukuna, so the rest of them could take on Kenjaku at once. But if Yuta died along with Gojo there then there would be no insurance they would have against Kenjaku since they just lost their other top fighter.
So Yuta was insurance for Kenjaku, that’s why Maki was the one who wanted to step in to fight Sukuna instead of Yuta. What you say doesn’t make sense because if Yuta was insurance for Sukuna then Maki wouldn’t have offered to step in, in Yuta’s place
"He only wants help if he gets weaker than me or you, that depends on circumstances, MS is off, Rika and I would be effective to hold off the 2 shikigamis" then he says "that insurance wont be needed if we can beat Sukuna now"
1) Yuta was only going to try to hold off the 2 shikigamis
2) his role was to stay as an insurance in case Gojo was defeated
3) Maki clearly admit that Yuta is stronger than her
However you're saying
1)Maki was going to fight 20F Sukuna there
2)Maki is equal to 15F Sukuna in speed who can blitz Ryu who's around Yuta's speed who's all the insurance if Gojo lost
3) I'm misinterpreting stuff
It doesn't go against anything, in fact they only wanted to hold off Mahoraga until Gojo kills Sukuna, neither Maki or Yuta wanted to fight Sukuna head on there, you made this up, just like you have added Kenjaku there.
I already disproved this, and again you're basically agreeing that Yuta isn't below Maki, Ryu was keeping up with Yuta in speed and strength but was outspeed by Sukuna who wasn't serious then got blitzed by a serious Sukuna.
You just tried to change the purpose of my sentence
I said Kenjaku doesn't scale to Sukuna, he never wanted to fight Gojo but he thinks 15F Sukuna is enough to beat Gojo.
You literally changed that to "you are arguing that 15F Sukuna is superior to Gojo and this is invalid because Kenjaku doesn't know how strong Gojo is"
I have no clue why you did that when nobody was saying 15F Sukuna is above Gojo, I was literally using that as a proof that Kenjaku believes 15F Sukuna is above himself, really strange.
Nothing needs to be interpreted at all, Megumi says Toji is as fast as 3F Sukuna, maybe faster then after some chasing he says "his speed rivals Sukuna"
You are ignoring the context on purpose because it doesn't suit your argument, 3F Sukuna is around Toji in speed, it's a fact that's stated by someone who encountered both as opponents.
You did not.
You again made another thing up, Toji isn't faster than Naobito
15F Sukuna > 3F Sukuna ~ Toji (speed)
15F Sukuna blitzed Ryu who is ~ Yuta
15F Sukuna is noticeably faster than Kenjaku whom they need to fight him all at once
- 21,468
- 30,790
That same Maki who hit human Naoya got statued by the mach 1 cursed womb Naoya.
Naobito being scared of Toji's presence ≠ he's slower.
Toji has high speed and high power while Naobito just had speed with no power, which is why he couldn't put down Dagon. Then he did put down Dagon.
This verse has a problem with "I'm scared of him" or "superior in 1 aspect" meaning "I'm slower" or "they're better in every department"
- 4,108
- 3,129
Nothing here shows that Toji is faster than Naobito
As for the rest I will quote Arkenis:
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,835
- 12,523
- Thread starter
- #547
I think I made some mistakes. After Reading the fight Hakari vs Kashimo. Let me correct myself.
I didn't realise Hakari feat comes from when his domain was active. He gets one hell of an boost from that. Apart from that normally he is above Grade 1 Sorcerers I guess.
Also its clearly mentioned he gets faster inside his domain so his domain amp should have made him faster than his normal speed. It shouldn't Contradict anything when domains abilities are not publicly presented and it's a different thing. Also Kashimo was not from same era.
I will change my OP. Only Kashimo and Hakari with Jackpot scales to the current Calculation and 20F Sukuna and Gojo. I will remove the others from the list.
We can discuss 15F Sukuna feat once Kenjaku Blackhole feat gets Calculated I guess.
I didn't realise Hakari feat comes from when his domain was active. He gets one hell of an boost from that. Apart from that normally he is above Grade 1 Sorcerers I guess.
Also its clearly mentioned he gets faster inside his domain so his domain amp should have made him faster than his normal speed. It shouldn't Contradict anything when domains abilities are not publicly presented and it's a different thing. Also Kashimo was not from same era.
I will change my OP. Only Kashimo and Hakari with Jackpot scales to the current Calculation and 20F Sukuna and Gojo. I will remove the others from the list.
We can discuss 15F Sukuna feat once Kenjaku Blackhole feat gets Calculated I guess.
- 21,468
- 30,790
I don't see anything saying that he was in Jackpot when he pulled that feat off
On top of that I'm not sure he gained speed just by activating his domain.
On top of that again doesn't Uraume scale to this Hakari?
On top of that I'm not sure he gained speed just by activating his domain.
On top of that again doesn't Uraume scale to this Hakari?
- 4,108
- 3,129
It's stated that 8 seconds left until this jackpot round ends
Well that's need to be checked because I don't recall it
He captured Uraume in his domain, but we didn't know what happened there, he may have or may have not hit a jackpot because its not something that he gains 100% whenever he casts a domain, but I'm sure we will get the answer in the next few chapters
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,835
- 12,523
- Thread starter
- #550
That scan itself says still 8 seconds left before jackpot ends
It's only stated he is getting faster inside the domain. Outside he was slightly faster than Yuji.
There was 35 days time break between Gojo unsealing and Hakari vs Uraume. Characters can get a boost.
Uraume was already humiliated by Gojo and was upset she was trying to do better than what happened with Gojo.
There we have characters training for the battle
I don't see why Uraume would sit back after receiving a that humiliation not get herself back.
- 3,780
- 4,080
Mach 1 cursed Naoya? Maki herself was confident she could take on Cursed Naoya if he was only traveling Mach 1.
Mind you, Maki compared human Naoya’s speed to Naobito’s, let alone curse Naoya who became even tougher than the disaster curses along with a big speed amp when he was already a speedster to begin with. And this was someone Maki was able to outmaneuver while being injured and not fully recovered.
Naobito being so visibly scared of Toji just indicates how noticeably inferior Naobito is to him, which is a general trend people have when it comes to their impression of Toji vs Naobito.
Here Naobito’s own brother compares himself to Naobito, saying how they were equals but then literally shakes in fear the instant Maki even somewhat begins to resemble Toji:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjkv2_149_015.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjkv2_149_016.png
Then of course there’s Naoya himself constantly citing how nobody is “on their level” or “could understand them” referring to Toji and Gojo, which would obviously include his father in that category as well:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_151_006.png
Toji also had the best showing of blitzing Dagon out of the characters, which is why I brought up the examples. He just generally had the best showings in everything in the 1 chapter he fought him in compared to the however many chapters Maki, Nanami, and Naobito were fighting Dagon. He also then proceeds to drag Megumi outside before anybody can react:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_111_06.jpg
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_111_07.jpg
I actually do question would we even consider Naobito as being faster than Toji in the first place? I don’t think it really makes sense with the way the narrative has portrayed them nor does any interaction or comparison of feats between them really indicate Naobito being superior to Toji either.
- 4,108
- 3,129
Are you saying that Jackpot Hakari is slightly faster than Yuji? Or you are referring to Jackpot Hakari when you say "inside the domain"? Because when Kashimo said "he's getting faster" in the scan that you posted, they were outside the domain but Hakari had his JP active
- 21,468
- 30,790
Jesus Eldermade can argue the hair color of a bald person
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,835
- 12,523
- Thread starter
- #554
No Jackpot Hakari slightly faster than Yuji
Jackpot Hakari is a different thing. I was saying Normal Hakari has no speed boost without domain
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,835
- 12,523
- Thread starter
- #555
My bad bruh I ain't good in EnglishMy english
No Jackpot Hakari slightly faster than Yuji
Jackpot Hakari is a different thing. I was saying Normal Hakari has no speed boost without domain
- 11,484
- 10,740
It's all good fam. You're doing fineMy bad bruh I ain't good in English
- 21,468
- 30,790
She couldn't lay a finger on Cursed Womb Naoya in Cqc. Long distance preparation of mach 1 and cqc of mach 1 not the same.
She never said this. Ever. They just used the comparison that they have the same technique.
Please minimize your images. PLEASE.
And this falls under the issue I said before. Yall see 1 statement and take it to mean superior in all aspects.
He and Naobito had the same showings. Naobito was just weak so his speed was for naught.
Naobito>Jogo>3FSuk~Toji
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,835
- 12,523
- Thread starter
- #558
Bruh should I create a new thread with all information regarding 20F Sukuna, Gojo , Kashimo and Jackpot Hakari.
Also we can avoid Maki debate with that.
- 21,468
- 30,790
NoBruh should I create a new thread with all information regarding 20F Sukuna, Gojo , Kashimo and Jackpot Hakari.
Currently this thread is shit show I doubt anyone would want to even evaluate this
Also we can avoid Maki debate with that.
We need a new thread specifically just for where characters scale man
Arkenis
They/Them- 16,842
- 7,737
My comment was just about speed. Their durability or endurance isn’t really relevant unless its Naobito.
- Status
