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You're not wrong but hopefully it'll get better soon. The current issue is still determining Maki's scaling, right?This keeps getting better (or worse depending on where you stand)
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You're not wrong but hopefully it'll get better soon. The current issue is still determining Maki's scaling, right?This keeps getting better (or worse depending on where you stand)
She's formulating responses based on the information network she is given from her senses. Meaning she is perceiving the effects of a match 3 projectile in the air and thus there is no way to divorce this perception from her reactions.She's formulating responses prior to when she genuinely managed to perceive said attack.
This isn't the same thing. Maki isn't sensing his intent and somehow psychically figuring out his moves. She is literally feeling the environment around her as a network of information and utilizing her enhanced senses to react better. This isn't a mode or an ability, it's literally just her new base of perceptions.If you can sense somebody about to shoot you without looking at them, then although we wouldn't mark it as "precognition", it gives the same effect.
I've not seen it done, but as I said earlier, this isn't the case here as it's just her base senses.Also yes, we do dock their reactions for it if they aimdodge.
Not really, as I mentioned, Toji being invisible is moot of Gojo can track his movements and keep up with him physically. We saw Gojo do this vs Sukuna as he literally chased him through the city and domains, but here Toji is clearly using his speed to great effect and Gojo specifically wonders about his level of speed. The invisibility was just an aggravating factor to the main issue of speed.You're focusing way too much on only speed.
That is one aspect of sensing not the only one. They also have their base senses. Which Toji was too much for.Gojo and everyone else senses via cursed energy. Todo and Yuji were equal in speed and Todo was staring at Yuji yet he had trouble sensing him.
I disagree, you keep claiming this but nothing is convincing over what I linked.This is just heavy levels of speculation.
Nothing says he was using his top speed again at all.
The expulsion of wind isn't there, the great distance isn't there, it isn't even said that he gained the same speed.
All that's shwon is that he was accelerating. Nothing said he fully accelerated to that top speed.
He has to in order to coordinate his flight and hit targets.What says he has Mach 3 reactions? He doesn't do anything at Mach 3 in close distances. Nothing says he deserves Mach 3 reactions.
Good work, now calc mach 3 from 100m away and let me know that result. I bet it's a lot under subsonic+, like orders of magnitude.I hope you know that reacting to 440,000 m/s from 2 km away is 0.00454 seconds, a tiny bit over baseline Subsonic+ reactions. That'd the same as reacting to Mach 0.64 a meter away.
You mean she'd react to the distrubances, which is what she did.And this is the same Maki who can smell light and lick sounds. She'd be warned of lightning coming.
Maybe the raws of this should be provided because as it stands now, option 1 is pretty clear cut.This is what Viz says
So from what I see, the consensus is that Maki scales to that Sukuna, it's just debatable if he's perfectly fine, holding back, or being hindered in movement
I'm about to just tackle this all at once below.She's formulating responses based on the information network she is given from her senses. Meaning she is perceiving the effects of a match 3 projectile in the air and thus there is no way to divorce this perception from her reactions.
This isn't the same thing. Maki isn't sensing his intent and somehow psychically figuring out his moves. She is literally feeling the environment around her as a network of information and utilizing her enhanced senses to react better. This isn't a mode or an ability, it's literally just her new base of perceptions.
A more apt comparison would be someone standing with a bullet chambered at 10m. They fire without warning and you utilize the minute disruption of the bullet piercing through the air from the chamber to calculate the trajectory of the projectile and then casually dodge the bullet as it arrives.
I've not seen it done, but as I said earlier, this isn't the case here as it's just her base senses.
Not really, as I mentioned, Toji being invisible is moot of Gojo can track his movements and keep up with him physically. We saw Gojo do this vs Sukuna as he literally chased him through the city and domains, but here Toji is clearly using his speed to great effect and Gojo specifically wonders about his level of speed. The invisibility was just an aggravating factor to the main issue of speed.
That is one aspect of sensing not the only one. They also have their base senses. Which Toji was too much for.
I disagree, you keep claiming this but nothing is convincing over what I linked.
He has to in order to coordinate his flight and hit targets.
100/1029 = 0.09718172983 secondsGood work, now calc mach 3 from 100m away and let me know that result. I bet it's a lot under subsonic+, like orders of magnitude.
Will tackle this in onde address when back at my cpuI'm about to just tackle this all at once below.
No he does notSpeed Standard Issues: Regarding The Flight Speed Standards
After taking a deeper look and thought into the newly recent standards added for flight speed, I found issues that I want to point out and discuss. And im putting this in the Q & A forum first as I want normal users to be able to weigh in on this too. Obviously if things go..."sideways", then...vsbattles.com
100/1029 = 0.09718172983 seconds
Peak Human.
Everything else is just semantics.
The other senses allow her to react to Naoya in a way that her eyes alone can't do.
That goes against regular reactions for her eyesight which is what we mainly chart.
This "buddhist principle of enlightenment" being a new mechanic in the verse is quite literally entirely headcanon. Like blatantly headcanon. Never stated, shown, implied, proven, thought of, or even mentioned.
Maki has never had a statement of getting faster. Maki has never has anything showing her eyesight has improved. She gained Toji's body when Mai died and she kept the same body after her realization. The only thing that did it was her new senses that let her combat him. This is the whole point of the sumo session.
She only canonically crossed paths with Mach 3 Naoya once. The other time is supported speculation which is also contradicted. He usually needs to accelerate a lot, yet he blatantly stopped moving right before he was about to hit her, meaning he lost all of his gained speed.
Maki has nothing putting her to Mach 3 or above
I wasn't being hostile. Just said it how it is.1) Getting some unnecessary hostility; you're at like 6 or 7 when you need to be at most 2
And this is quite possibly the second funniest thing I've seen from this verse's scaling lol. Hakari, the mach 500 demon didn't perceive a domain in less than 0.01 seconds, yet he can activate his domain faster than Mahito who did his in 0.2 seconds. At this point Gege is deadass telling us and being consistent that they have at best subsonic reactions, activations, and perception. We also have Todo who has 0.01s reactions as well.Yeah
I'm not saying you should scale to Gojo, I'm saying they are around Kenjaku who's far inferior to 15F Sukuna because he was able to stop the Gojo who was going to kill Kenjaku.Actually it is how it works since not scaling to Gojo isn’t an anti-feat to scaling to 15F Sukuna. And blitzed? Are you sure about that since we can clearly see him reacting to the attack coming right here:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_011.png
No I don't have to say 15F Sukuna is above Gojo, all what I need to say is that both 15F Sukuna and Gojo are far above the likes of Kenjaku, Gojo knew he can finish Kenjaku quickly but he didn't want to fight Sukuna there, tried to speed blitz and kill Kenjaku quickly but Sukuna managed to tag him.Also Sukuna didn’t “make Gojo retreat” I don’t know what you’re talking about. Sukuna jumped in to attack Gojo when he was about to attack Kenjaku. Which Gojo is blocking with his infinity.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_013.png
Unless you think 15F Sukuna is > Satoru Gojo then Gojo just willingly chose to pause the fight for a predetermined day because he was just released from the prison realm and had no idea what was going on outside nor even how long it’s been since he first got stuck in there.
She doesn't scale to a full powered 15F Sukuna as I just explained, and no if you will argue she's on 15F Sukuna's level in speed then she will be able to dogwalk Kenjaku since that's what Gojo was gonna do before being stopped by 15F SukunaYeah Maki scales to Sukuna in that she can box with him in hand to hand combat, but you understand she doesn’t scale to his CT right? A sorcerer’s most dangerous asset about them is their CT, the only exception to this is Maki herself. Just because she’s able to box with 15F Sukuna without the use of his CT while she has Yuji aiding her on the side doesn’t mean she’s able to dog Kenjaku so easily. You can be inferior to a person and still scale to them.
No you're misinterpreting that scene.Oh by the way bringing up Yuta being a “last resort” for Kenjaku just goes against your point and supports my own because Maki herself was gonna go and fight Sukuna so that just proves that Kenjaku does in fact scale to Sukuna since Maki herself was gonna go fight 20F Sukuna while she wanted to save the stronger Yuta for Kenjaku. So yeah, the point you bring up about Maki wanting to save Yuta as insurance for Kenjaku while she fought Sukuna just proves to the point that Kenjaku is in fact a challenger and does indeed scale.
Again you're just trying to interpret that statement in a way that goes in line with your scaling while ignoring the contextFor the Toji stuff I already explained how he was said to be faster than the Sukuna he was “rivaling” meaning that 3F isn’t a cap for him in speed, along with a whole bunch other stuff that disproves that notion as well so I’ll just quote the stuff that wasn’t addressed again.
Off topic but regarding this, Mahito's domain was faster since the activation of his CT became one step with casting his domain, Hakari still has fast activation of CT inside the domain but its not mentioned that its the same stepAnd this is quite possibly the second funniest thing I've seen from this verse's scaling lol. Hakari, the mach 500 demon didn't perceive a domain in less than 0.01 seconds, yet he can activate his domain faster than Mahito who did his in 0.2 seconds. At this point Gege is deadass telling us and being consistent that they have at best subsonic reactions, activations, and perception. We also have Todo who has 0.01s reactions as well.
He jumped in to attack Gojo while Gojo was attacking Kenjaku, also you’re forgetting that Sukuna had the use of his CT here while he didn’t have it against Maki. Big distinction there since Maki is only scaling to their physicals while Kenjaku is talking about a Sukuna with the use of his CT. So again, being “far inferior” to someone doesn’t mean you don’t scale to their stats, especially when talking about CT since Maki would’ve gotten killed by Sukuna’s CT had he been able to make use of it, but can still box with him and content with him in stats.I'm not saying you should scale to Gojo, I'm saying they are around Kenjaku who's far inferior to 15F Sukuna because he was able to stop the Gojo who was going to kill Kenjaku.
Yes he did, you’re not the arbiter of interpretations, you have no evidence Kenjaku “didn’t see” Gojo’s attack was coming “and that’s why he sweated.” That’s just an interpretation you’ve posited that you can’t prove, the fact of the matter is that the sequence goes Gojo tries to punch Kenjaku, Kenjaku starts sweating, and Sukuna intercepts the attack. The fact that Kenjaku had a reaction to the attack coming towards him means he wasn’t blitzed by the attack like you say, the attack could’ve just been “too strong” for him to deal with instead of “too fast” like you claim.And no Kenjaku didn't react to anything there, Gojo told him it's his last words and completely attacked in a fast speed that Kenjaku didn't see that's why he sweated, if he could see Gojo coming there would be no need to sweat alot like that when he was standing casually before this, he didn't need to make an expression.
Sukuna being stronger than Kenjaku doesn’t disprove Maki scaling to Sukuna as I’ve already mentioned since you can be massively inferior to someone and still be able to scale to them. Also Gojo never blitzed Kenjaku since like I already proved, he clearly reacts to Gojo’s attack as it’s coming towards him. Meaning your whole basis for your argument is moot since it hinges on Kenjaku not being able to react to Gojo and 15F Sukuna, when in fact he clearly does:No I don't have to say 15F Sukuna is above Gojo, all what I need to say is that both 15F Sukuna and Gojo are far above the likes of Kenjaku, Gojo knew he can finish Kenjaku quickly but he didn't want to fight Sukuna there, tried to speed blitz and kill Kenjaku quickly but Sukuna managed to tag him.
Gojo even made fun of Sukuna because he's taking orders from someone like Kenjaku
Again Sukuna being above Kenjaku doesn’t disprove Maki scaling at all. Maki was just boxing Sukuna without his CT, here Sukuna has his CT fully ready. You’re talking about big distinctions in a person’s kit here.Because Sukuna tried to mock Gojo 200 chapters ago because Gojo wasn't the leader since he's the strongest and said "what a disappointment"
Yes she does as I’ve just explained and shown with multiple panels of her blatantly keeping up with and fighting Sukuna, him even complimenting how well she’s performing.She doesn't scale to a full powered 15F Sukuna as I just explained, and no if you will argue she's on 15F Sukuna's level in speed then she will be able to dogwalk Kenjaku since that's what Gojo was gonna do before being stopped by 15F Sukuna
Again already disproved this scaling chain. The whole basis for the argument hinges on Kenjaku not being able to react to an attack 15F Sukuna is able to see, however we clearly see Kenjaku reacting to said attack as it’s heading towards him.Gojo (when he wanted to kill Kenjaku) ~ 15F Sukuna >>> Kenjaku
I put (when he wanted to kill Kenjaku) because later on we knew Gojo can keep up with 20F Sukuna, but in that instance, he used enough agility and CE reinforcements to kill Kenjaku.
No, it’s you who’s misinterpreting the scene.No you're misinterpreting that scene.
1) I'm not saying Kenjaku is a last resort for Kenjaku, because that's not what the cast plan was in anyway
Their plan was to fight Sukuna if he kills Gojo
And to fight Kenjaku if Gojo kills Sukuna
Yuta in the same scan replied to Maki by saying "if we kill Sukuna now, we won't need that insurance"
So Yuta is an insurance for Sukuna.
Yes it goes directly against your point actually. The fact that Maki is willing to step up and help Gojo against Sukuna just so that they could keep Yuta as insurance for Kenjaku directly contradicts your notion that Kenjaku doesn’t scale to the likes of 15F Sukuna.And no it doesn't go against my point
Because Yuta is most of their insurance, if he died that would be a problem, but Maki isn't as strong as Yuta so if she died that would be less harmful to the plan
For Kenjaku. Yuta was all their insurance for Kenjaku, Mei Mei clarifies this by citing how if Gojo won against Sukuna, their plan was to all take on Kenjaku since they believe they could beat him. That was their plan. If Gojo won then there would be no need for Yuta as insurance because they could all probably beat Kenjaku, but if Gojo lost to Sukuna, then they’d need to jump Sukuna, so they needed to keep at least Yuta off to the side as “insurance” for Kenjaku.And no Maki can't fight 20F Sukuna, you're missing the context, Yuta was referring to holding back Mahoraga and Agito so Gojo can kill Sukuna because they thought Sukuna already used everything and we know that Gojo was superior in 1vs1 against Sukuna, Maki said but you're all our insurance, if someone has to go then it's me because we can't let you die, so she's basically saying I should be the one who tries to hold them off of Gojo until he kills Sukuna since my death won't leave a big impact like on the plan like your death.
Yes he does as I’ve shown lmao. Fearing Gojo doesn’t mean not scaling to 15F Sukuna, also what scan are you referring to are you referring to when you say Kenjaku wanted 15F Sukuna to face Gojo and how does this probe 15F Sukuna is superior to Gojo when Kenjaku doesn’t even know how strong Gojo fully is.No Kenjaku doesn't scale to Sukuna lol, he feared to battle Gojo and admitted that his backup plan in case the seal didn't work is to have Gojo fight with 15F Sukuna
Which proves that 15F Sukuna is superior to teen Gojo by the way, which you didn't reply to.
The statement is being interpreted as is, the fact that Megumi said “maybe faster” shows that 3F Sukuna is not his limit speed.Again you're just trying to interpret that statement in a way that goes in line with your scaling while ignoring the context
Megumi said "it's as fast as that time, maybe even faster"
Yeah “rivaling” here can also still mean Toji is superior to Sukuna, not inferior. You can be superior to someone and still rival them. The fact that he says “as fast if not faster” proves that he’s only speaking equal to annd above when he says “rivaling.”Then he said "his speed rivals Sukuna"
He basically wasn't sure if it's the same speed or maybe faster but after getting chased by Toji after that he came to the conclusion that his speed rivals Sukuna
Actually I have replied to them and demonstrated why their incredibly incorrect multiple times now.So far I've proposed 3 scaling chains supported by evidence from the manga and you didn't manage to reply to them properly so I will write it again as a summary
I have already responded to this notion multiple times now and you have continually refused to address the arguments presented. So I’ll repeat myself again.15F Sukuna >> Kenjaku ~ the heavy hitters (individually since their plan is to jump him together and he wanted to avoid fighting them)
15F Sukuna >> 3F Sukuna ~ Toji
15F Sukuna > teen Gojo > Toji
I missed outToji can’t be equal to 3F Sukuna. Toji is superior to Naobito who is even faster than the 8F level Jogo. Megumi’s statement isn’t a cap on Toji’s speed for multiple reasons which I’ve just laid out.
Superior is a stretch. After Maki obtains her body, the body equal to Toji, she's still getting rocked by Naoya. I would say that what made Toji superior is his senses, the senses we end up seeing being needed to deal with Cursed Naoya.Toji can’t be equal to 3F Sukuna. Toji is superior to Naobito who is even faster than the 8F level Jogo. Megumi’s statement isn’t a cap on Toji’s speed for multiple reasons which I’ve just laid out.
If I could pin this I wouldSuperior is a stretch. After Maki obtains her body, the body equal to Toji, she's still getting rocked by Naoya. I would say that what made Toji superior is his senses, the senses we end up seeing being needed to deal with Cursed Naoya.
It’s an author statement said in the fan book saying that Toji is better than Naobito.I missed out
Where does it say that Toji is faster than Naobito?
Dagon fight?
I think it’s a mix of both tbh. Don’t get me wrong the senses are busted and really help, but at the same time, you gotta remember curse Naoya is more durable than Hanami who is like significantly more durable than Jogo. And Maki just stood while he crashed into her at literally Mach 3.Superior is a stretch. After Maki obtains her body, the body equal to Toji, she's still getting rocked by Naoya. I would say that what made Toji superior is his senses, the senses we end up seeing being needed to deal with Cursed Naoya.
Did he just say "better"? Because that ain't really good enough for speed of a speedsterIt’s an author statement said in the fan book saying that Toji is better than Naobito.
It was something about him being the he’s dog clan if I remember right. But it’s not just that,Did he just say "better"? Because that ain't really good enough for speed of a speedster
Yeah cause Toji was the guy strong enough to wash his whole clan with no technique or energyIt was something about him being the he’s dog clan if I remember right. But it’s not just that,
There’s also the fact that Naoya’s whole existence is for the purposes of glazing Toji, meanwhile he has zero regard for, you know….his freaking father lol.
Let me put it like this, Toji suddenly appears to the shock of everybody:Yeah cause Toji was the guy strong enough to wash his whole clan with no technique or energy
Idk Toji being above Naobito isn't supported speed wise
Perceiving a Gojo who was going to blitz and kill Kenjaku and then blocking him will make you far above Kenjaku in speed and strength, his CT does not matter her because this scene alongside the other things I brought are mainly about physical statsHe jumped in to attack Gojo while Gojo was attacking Kenjaku, also you’re forgetting that Sukuna had the use of his CT here while he didn’t have it against Maki. Big distinction there since Maki is only scaling to their physicals while Kenjaku is talking about a Sukuna with the use of his CT. So again, being “far inferior” to someone doesn’t mean you don’t scale to their stats, especially when talking about CT since Maki would’ve gotten killed by Sukuna’s CT had he been able to make use of it, but can still box with him and content with him in stats.
It's not an interpretation, you literally just made this up, Gojo immediately attacked and Kenjaku started sweating because he couldn't see Gojo, then Sukuna stopped him, you are the one who has to show that Kenjaku can react and block that Gojo because that's not implied at all in that scene, it's a conclusion that you came to because the scene contradicts your scalingYes he did, you’re not the arbiter of interpretations, you have no evidence Kenjaku “didn’t see” Gojo’s attack was coming “and that’s why he sweated.” That’s just an interpretation you’ve posited that you can’t prove, the fact of the matter is that the sequence goes Gojo tries to punch Kenjaku, Kenjaku starts sweating, and Sukuna intercepts the attack. The fact that Kenjaku had a reaction to the attack coming towards him means he wasn’t blitzed by the attack like you say, the attack could’ve just been “too strong” for him to deal with instead of “too fast” like you claim.
You didn't prove show anything, almost everything I've brought up is related to speed but you couldn't bring anything other than CTs.Sukuna being stronger than Kenjaku doesn’t disprove Maki scaling to Sukuna as I’ve already mentioned since you can be massively inferior to someone and still be able to scale to them. Also Gojo never blitzed Kenjaku since like I already proved, he clearly reacts to Gojo’s attack as it’s coming towards him. Meaning your whole basis for your argument is moot since it hinges on Kenjaku not being able to react to Gojo and 15F Sukuna, when in fact he clearly does:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_011.png
You also made this up, my arguments are clearly showing speed feats or statements so saying its because of his CT is just way too much headcanon to take.Again Sukuna being above Kenjaku doesn’t disprove Maki scaling at all. Maki was just boxing Sukuna without his CT, here Sukuna has his CT fully ready. You’re talking about big distinctions in a person’s kit here.
Complimenting someone was already refuted by @EldemadeDityjon and myselfYes she does as I’ve just explained and shown with multiple panels of her blatantly keeping up with and fighting Sukuna, him even complimenting how well she’s performing.
Again, Kenjaku was never speedblitzed by Gojo’s attack, he clearly reacted to it as it was heading towards him. You posited headcanon and say that “the reason Kenjaku was sweating was because he couldn’t see the attack coming”
But again, that interpretation of yours has no proof to it. Kenjaku having a reaction to the attack coming towards him= him reacting to the attack, that’s just the fact of the matter.
There comes someone might say he praised maki. But ignores he praises anyone he fights except Yuji (his seal )and Yorozu ( annoying). He praised Jogo Despite mocking him throughout the fight. He praised Ryu Despite Blizting and one shoting him. So please don't bring the arguments like Sukuna praised Maki.
Summary: Maki says Kenjaku is a challenge, the same Kenjaku who was clearly shown to be slower than Gojo and 15F SukunaIf you wanna scale Maki to 15F Sukuna because of him saying she isn't easy to take down blah blah blah, then remember that Maki said "we won't be able to beat Kenjaku with conventional ways" - fan translations
"Kenjaku is a challenge" - viz
Their plan was to jump Kenjaku at once after Gojo beats Sukuna
Ryu and Uro could keep up with Yuta and then Sukuna was blitzing Ryu, he moved his hand before Ryu, he then decided to fight for real and blitzed Ryu completely
Then you have all of this supported by the fact that she's equal to Toji whose speed rivals 3F Sukuna which is an argument that was used throughout all this thread as a counter to the OP
Nothing was disprovedAgain already disproved this scaling chain. The whole basis for the argument hinges on Kenjaku not being able to react to an attack 15F Sukuna is able to see, however we clearly see Kenjaku reacting to said attack as it’s heading towards him.
Kenjaku was not mentioned in that statement talking about insurance but Sukuna was the one to get mentioned, in fact Yuta and Yuji didn't know about the strategy that Mei Mei mentioned, so no you can't use that as an interpretation to Yuta's wordsNo, it’s you who’s misinterpreting the scene.
As Maki explains, she and the rest of the team wanted to step in against Sukuna while Yuta stayed as “insurance” for Kenjaku. If Gojo was to beat Sukuna though then that insurance wouldn’t be necessary because as Mei Mei explains, the rest of them ganging up could take on Kenjaku. So that’s what Yuta’s plan was, to help Gojo beat Sukuna, so the rest of them could take on Kenjaku at once. But if Yuta died along with Gojo there then there would be no insurance they would have against Kenjaku since they just lost their other top fighter.
So Yuta was insurance for Kenjaku, that’s why Maki was the one who wanted to step in to fight Sukuna instead of Yuta. What you say doesn’t make sense because if Yuta was insurance for Sukuna then Maki wouldn’t have offered to step in, in Yuta’s place
It doesn't go against anything, in fact they only wanted to hold off Mahoraga until Gojo kills Sukuna, neither Maki or Yuta wanted to fight Sukuna head on there, you made this up, just like you have added Kenjaku there.Yes it goes directly against your point actually. The fact that Maki is willing to step up and help Gojo against Sukuna just so that they could keep Yuta as insurance for Kenjaku directly contradicts your notion that Kenjaku doesn’t scale to the likes of 15F Sukuna.
This same Yuta was about to step in to fight against 20F Sukuna’s Shikigami, including Mahoraga. So the fact that the characters want to save him as insurance for Kenjaku, proves to the point that Kenjaku would in fact scale.
I already disproved this, and again you're basically agreeing that Yuta isn't below Maki, Ryu was keeping up with Yuta in speed and strength but was outspeed by Sukuna who wasn't serious then got blitzed by a serious Sukuna.For Kenjaku. Yuta was all their insurance for Kenjaku, Mei Mei clarifies this by citing how if Gojo won against Sukuna, their plan was to all take on Kenjaku since they believe they could beat him. That was their plan. If Gojo won then there would be no need for Yuta as insurance because they could all probably beat Kenjaku, but if Gojo lost to Sukuna, then they’d need to jump Sukuna, so they needed to keep at least Yuta off to the side as “insurance” for Kenjaku.
You just tried to change the purpose of my sentenceYes he does as I’ve shown lmao. Fearing Gojo doesn’t mean not scaling to 15F Sukuna, also what scan are you referring to are you referring to when you say Kenjaku wanted 15F Sukuna to face Gojo and how does this probe 15F Sukuna is superior to Gojo when Kenjaku doesn’t even know how strong Gojo fully is.
The statement is being interpreted as is, the fact that Megumi said “maybe faster” shows that 3F Sukuna is not his limit speed.
Nothing needs to be interpreted at all, Megumi says Toji is as fast as 3F Sukuna, maybe faster then after some chasing he says "his speed rivals Sukuna"Yeah “rivaling” here can also still mean Toji is superior to Sukuna, not inferior. You can be superior to someone and still rival them. The fact that he says “as fast if not faster” proves that he’s only speaking equal to annd above when he says “rivaling.”
Also the fact that there’s the argument that Toji isn’t going all out against his child Megumi, but you keep on ignoring that arargument
You did not.Actually I have replied to them and demonstrated why their incredibly incorrect multiple times now.
You have literally just ignored the argument presented before you.
You again made another thing up, Toji isn't faster than NaobitoI have already responded to this notion multiple times now and you have continually refused to address the arguments presented. So I’ll repeat myself again.
Toji can’t be equal to 3F Sukuna. Toji is superior to Naobito who is even faster than the 8F level Jogo. Megumi’s statement isn’t a cap on Toji’s speed for multiple reasons which I’ve just laid out.
That same Maki who hit human Naoya got statued by the mach 1 cursed womb Naoya.Let me put it like this, Toji suddenly appears to the shock of everybody:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_02.jpg
This was Maki’s reaction to seeing Toji suddenly pop in front of her with no technique while he was upside down in mid-air:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_03.jpg
Upon witnessing the newly revived Toji, this was Naobito’s reaction to one look at his face:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_05.jpg
Toji then proceeds to absolutely decimate and annihilate Dagon in a showing of pure speed and power, better than any previous showing by any character against Dagon at that point:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_08.jpg
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_10.jpg
Naoya, being the son of Naobito with the very same technique no less and the next clan heir in line of the Zenin clan due to his superiority…gets absolutely schlumped by a pre-awakened Maki that’s not on Toji’s level, (and she compares Naoya’s speed to Naobito’s as both being “extremely fast” no less):
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_151_015.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_151_016.png
Naoya then comes back as a cursed spirits in which he specifically gets a major speed amp, and then proceeds to get absolutely dogwalked by Maki (version 2) to the point where he was absolutely raging the literal instant she got on Toji’s level:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_197_006.png
I think we can fairly put Maki and Toji above Naobito in speed.
Nothing here shows that Toji is faster than NaobitoLet me put it like this, Toji suddenly appears to the shock of everybody:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_02.jpg
This was Maki’s reaction to seeing Toji suddenly pop in front of her with no technique while he was upside down in mid-air:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_03.jpg
Upon witnessing the newly revived Toji, this was Naobito’s reaction to one look at his face:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_110_05.jpg
Superior is a stretch. After Maki obtains her body, the body equal to Toji, she's still getting rocked by Naoya. I would say that what made Toji superior is his senses, the senses we end up seeing being needed to deal with Cursed Naoya.
It's stated that 8 seconds left until this jackpot round endsI don't see anything saying that he was in Jackpot when he pulled that feat off
Well that's need to be checked because I don't recall itOn top of that I'm not sure he gained speed just by activating his domain.
He captured Uraume in his domain, but we didn't know what happened there, he may have or may have not hit a jackpot because its not something that he gains 100% whenever he casts a domain, but I'm sure we will get the answer in the next few chaptersOn top of that again doesn't Uraume scale to this Hakari?
That scan itself says still 8 seconds left before jackpot endsI don't see anything saying that he was in Jackpot when he pulled that feat off
It's only stated he is getting faster inside the domain. Outside he was slightly faster than Yuji.On top of that I'm not sure he gained speed just by activating his domain.
There was 35 days time break between Gojo unsealing and Hakari vs Uraume. Characters can get a boost.On top of that again doesn't Uraume scale to this Hakari?
Mach 1 cursed Naoya? Maki herself was confident she could take on Cursed Naoya if he was only traveling Mach 1.That same Maki who hit human Naoya got statued by the mach 1 cursed womb Naoya.
Naobito being scared of Toji's presence ≠ he's slower.
Toji has high speed and high power while Naobito just had speed with no power, which is why he couldn't put down Dagon. Then he did put down Dagon.
This verse has a problem with "I'm scared of him" or "superior in 1 aspect" meaning "I'm slower" or "they're better in every department"
Are you saying that Jackpot Hakari is slightly faster than Yuji? Or you are referring to Jackpot Hakari when you say "inside the domain"? Because when Kashimo said "he's getting faster" in the scan that you posted, they were outside the domain but Hakari had his JP activeIt's only stated he is getting faster inside the domain. Outside he was slightly faster than Yuji
Are you saying that Jackpot Hakari is slightly faster than Yuji? Or you are referring to Jackpot Hakari when you say "inside the domain"? Because when Kashimo said "he's getting faster" in the scan that you posted, they were outside the domain but Hakari had his JP active
Jesus Eldermade can argue the hair color of a bald person
My bad bruh I ain't good in EnglishMy english
No Jackpot Hakari slightly faster than Yuji
Jackpot Hakari is a different thing. I was saying Normal Hakari has no speed boost without domain
It's all good fam. You're doing fineMy bad bruh I ain't good in English
She couldn't lay a finger on Cursed Womb Naoya in Cqc. Long distance preparation of mach 1 and cqc of mach 1 not the same.Mach 1 cursed Naoya? Maki herself was confident she could take on Cursed Naoya if he was only traveling Mach 1.
She never said this. Ever. They just used the comparison that they have the same technique.Mind you, Maki compared human Naoya’s speed to Naobito’s, let alone curse Naoya who became even tougher than the disaster curses along with a big speed amp when he was already a speedster to begin with. And this was someone Maki was able to outmaneuver while being injured and not fully recovered.
Please minimize your images. PLEASE.Naobito being so visibly scared of Toji just indicates how noticeably inferior Naobito is to him, which is a general trend people have when it comes to their impression of Toji vs Naobito.
Here Naobito’s own brother compares himself to Naobito, saying how they were equals but then literally shakes in fear the instant Maki even somewhat begins to resemble Toji:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjkv2_149_015.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjkv2_149_016.png
Then of course there’s Naoya himself constantly citing how nobody is “on their level” or “could understand them” referring to Toji and Gojo, which would obviously include his father in that category as well:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_151_006.png
He and Naobito had the same showings. Naobito was just weak so his speed was for naught.Toji also had the best showing of blitzing Dagon out of the characters, which is why I brought up the examples. He just generally had the best showings in everything in the 1 chapter he fought him in compared to the however many chapters Maki, Nanami, and Naobito were fighting Dagon. He also then proceeds to drag Megumi outside before anybody can react:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_111_06.jpg
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_111_07.jpg
Naobito>Jogo>3FSuk~TojiI actually do question would we even consider Naobito as being faster than Toji in the first place? I don’t think it really makes sense with the way the narrative has portrayed them nor does any interaction or comparison of feats between them really indicate Naobito being superior to Toji either.
Bruh should I create a new thread with all information regarding 20F Sukuna, Gojo , Kashimo and Jackpot Hakari.Snip.
NoBruh should I create a new thread with all information regarding 20F Sukuna, Gojo , Kashimo and Jackpot Hakari.
Currently this thread is shit show I doubt anyone would want to even evaluate this
Also we can avoid Maki debate with that.
My comment was just about speed. Their durability or endurance isn’t really relevant unless its Naobito.I think it’s a mix of both tbh. Don’t get me wrong the senses are busted and really help, but at the same time, you gotta remember curse Naoya is more durable than Hanami who is like significantly more durable than Jogo. And Maki just stood while he crashed into her at literally Mach 3.
I think that can be a testament in of itself of Maki’s sheer endurance of taking such a brutal physical hit and then being able to move her body so well that she can casually avoid Naoya’s incoming attacks, while also boxing him: