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Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

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Shey said:
"These people" refer to those persons you said you asked and gave you a negative answer.

And you're going into unecessary details, it amps speed and that's it
Click to expand...
We're referencing combat speed. It didn't show to amp combat speed
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
He has Lightining in base and Electro Magnetic waves in his CT active statement.
Bruh better suggestions. Remove Mach 3 Naoya we will have MHS characters.🙂👌
Also after Checking the chapter 237 and chapter 237. I can clearly see Sukuna was not able to move and blitz Kashimo because of his injuries from Gojos battle. If we correctly look at the fight Sukuna never moved anymore or less than dodging Attack in close range. Long range AOE sound attack covers more area which works like Black Canary cry. Beside he was Tanking it so he didn't needed to move anyway.

But in chapter 237 when he Reconstructed the body and Fully recovered his body functions. He did blizted Kashimo multiple occasions. He clears was capable of moving from that position.
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with my point?
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Isn’t the statement an outlier from Megumi? Maki (who is consistently stated to be equal to Toji) was able to keep up with 15 finger Sukuna and land hits on him (was stated that Sukuna’s physical MOVEMENT was unaffected, only his cursed energy was)
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Then Sukuna's fingers probably don't amp him to a high extent since 15F Sukuna and 20F Sukuna can both keep up with Gojo
Mazdoesstuff said:
Toji also seemed to outperform Naobito in terms of the speed of his attacks on Dagon
Click to expand...
He never does this
 
KingTempest said:
Then Sukuna's fingers probably don't amp him to a high extent since 15F Sukuna and 20F Sukuna can both keep up with Gojo
Click to expand...
I thought we were making separate keys for Shinjuku Gojo and Gojo beforehand?

But 15F Sukuna only managed to interrupt Gojo while he was in the air, I wouldn’t say that’s FULLY enough to scale
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
But 15F Sukuna only managed to interrupt Gojo while he was in the air, I wouldn’t say that’s FULLY enough to scale
Click to expand...
He also blocked whatever Gojo threw at Kenjaku. Not an exact confirmation but his confidence to engage with Gojo right there even while having less fingers is enough to imply Sukuna scales comfortably.
 
KingTempest said:
I'm about to just tackle this all at once below.

vsbattles.com

Speed Standard Issues: Regarding The Flight Speed Standards

After taking a deeper look and thought into the newly recent standards added for flight speed, I found issues that I want to point out and discuss. And im putting this in the Q & A forum first as I want normal users to be able to weigh in on this too. Obviously if things go..."sideways", then...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
No he does not
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None of this applies to Naoya who is able to make crisp turns and actively works like a jet, which means he very much so has to actively coordinate his flights. You even see him circling up in flight patterns before going at Maki which means he is very coordinated with his flight patterns .
KingTempest said:
100/1029 = 0.09718172983 seconds
Peak Human.
Click to expand...
Ok so once again, by your logic if Naoya is mach 3, that places Awakened Maki at peak human speed.

Despite random Zenin CT'less fodder being FTE speed. Same dudes who awakened Maki casually kill billed

Despit pre CE training Yuji being > 1/2 half the speed of sound.

Despite her earlier being able to react to >subsonic Naoya.

Despite her then being able to react to 444000 m/s from a slightly greater distance some time later.
KingTempest said:
Everything else is just semantics.
Click to expand...
No it's not, your own internal framework is not correct going by pure statements, which is something you will need to address if you are using Maki as the lynchpin for the scaling not making sense.
KingTempest said:
The other senses allow her to react to Naoya in a way that her eyes alone can't do.
Click to expand...
Okay? Reaction speed is not just a product of visual cognition my guy. I'm not really sure how you are arguing her base sense becoming that much more fine tuned somehow amounts to her not scaling to her own perceptions.
KingTempest said:
That goes against regular reactions for her eyesight which is what we mainly chart.
Click to expand...
No it's not. Vision is the main factor because we assume anatomy and physiology of the standard human and even standard humans don't only utilize sight for reactions. Maki is clearly a special case with special abilities and given her abilities relate to her base senses there is literally no way to divorce this from her reaction/perception speed.
KingTempest said:
This "buddhist principle of enlightenment" being a new mechanic in the verse is quite literally entirely headcanon. Like blatantly headcanon. Never stated, shown, implied, proven, thought of, or even mentioned.
Click to expand...
It's really not. Gojo discovered the core of curse energy and came back with boosted stats after enlightenment, Mahito and Megumi both manifested domain expansions on the fly on the verge of death and by letting go of attachment, and I already displayed the panels to you about Maki was affected by "letting go" of her trauma which is a direct callback to this theme.

Not to mention Jujutsu is explicitly tied to Buddhism on a fundamental level. The fact that you lack this basic understanding of the JJK verse worries me giving the arguments you are trying to put forth.


KingTempest said:
Maki has never had a statement of getting faster.
Click to expand...
Gege doesn't need to give us an explicit statement when he literally details to you how Maki's perceptions increased and then legit shows you on the panel casually reacting mid-air to a threat whose speed she previously could not surpass, while previously running through mile stretches of buildings with Naoya being unable to tag her.
KingTempest said:
Maki has never has anything showing her eyesight has improved.
Click to expand...
Rections are not just limited to eye speed stop claiming this.

We actually did, her eyesight literally improved to a point where she can see phenomena that typically can't be seen and this directly correlates to her reaction ability.

I'm not really sure how you're arguing this tbh.
KingTempest said:
She gained Toji's body when Mai died and she kept the same body after her realization.
Click to expand...
She gained his body, yet it clearly wasn't unlocked which is the whole point of her training, the whole point of Gege pointing out her enlightened mind adding to her perceptions, and then the whole fight where Naoya gets bullied by Maki afterward.
KingTempest said:
The only thing that did it was her new senses that let her combat him. This is the whole point of the sumo session.
Click to expand...
Yes, her new elevated level of senses, which directly correlates to her reaction speed.
KingTempest said:
She only canonically crossed paths with Mach 3 Naoya once. The other time is supported speculation which is also contradicted. He usually needs to accelerate a lot, yet he blatantly stopped moving right before he was about to hit her, meaning he lost all of his gained speed.
Click to expand...
No she didn't. You keep claiming this against blatant narrative and visual indication of this, in addition to Naoya outright admitting he cannot catch her with his speed.

I'm going to need a lot more than what you've provided so far to ignore those blatant indications
KingTempest said:
Maki has nothing putting her to Mach 3 or above
Click to expand...
That's false partner.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn’t that just be chalked up to sukuna naturally being a shit talker who doesn’t dodge fights rather than being chalked up as the golden word, with jogo and kenjaku treatiing finger increases as somewhat exponential
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
the same gege with the electromagnetic waves, black hole horizon thingy, previous speed feats before the mach 3 notion, etc? The same Gege who earlier thought some mfs in jjk was infinite speed and then mach 3? 😂 Brother that subsonic ain't consistent either. The speed is all over the place.
Click to expand...
Why do people keep bringing up the black hole feat from Kenjaku, Kenjaku was already resisting the gravitational pull as Yuki was still forming it which would be preventing him from being pulled in and give him ample time to activate his anti-gravity. I don't think Gege's author comment was talking about infinite speed either, he was probably talking about Jackpot Hakari having infinite cursed energy.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
I mean the only way she would scale to that feat is if
she fights true form sukuna or hakari(ain't happening) at this point since ya know only those two of the 3 people that actually scale to that feat are still alive.

Also got to say putting the mach 3 limit on maki is pretty silly considering that after the awakening she has become waaaay faster than naoya to the point where he couldn't catch nor hit her even while she was in mid air, so saying that maki is now all of a sudden hard capped to naoya's max speed even though she was out speeding him throughout the end of their fight pretty easily as can be seen in these scans

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/197.0/compressed/gjujutsu_kaisen_197_005.jpghttps://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/197.0/compressed/gjujutsu_kaisen_197_006.jpghttps://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/197.0/compressed/gjujutsu_kaisen_197_007.jpghttps://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/197.0/compressed/gjujutsu_kaisen_197_008.jpg
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/197.0/compressed/gjujutsu_kaisen_197_010.jpghttps://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/197.0/compressed/gjujutsu_kaisen_197_011.jpghttps://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/197.0/compressed/gjujutsu_kaisen_197_012.jpg

I mean to me its pretty clear that after she fully awakened she was well above naoya in speed since she could dodge him while she was mid air with him being unable to catch or hit her even once after her full awakening which again makes the "mach 3 wall" questionable at best
Click to expand...
How many times do we have to go over this, one of those scans literally shows Naoya covering far more distance than Maki does which would make him faster, her awakening enhanced her senses and gave her precog abilities but there's no mention of her becoming faster, Maki being able to move in mid-air was another ability she got from her enhanced senses and when she does tag Naoya, Naoya hadn't built up speed to reach Mach 3 again.
 
Shey said:
He's getting bodied wdym
Click to expand...
I missaw that panel ☠️
a better statement would've been that Gege portrays Naoya moving below Supersonic speeds being able to blitz subsonic characters like Yuji and Choso, and we've got showings like Jogo who scales below Naobito taking out Nanami and Maki before they can react to him coming at them so if Kashimo was x500 faster than Hakari then Hakari wouldn't even be able to exchange hands with him.
 
SunDaGamer said:
How many times do we have to go over this, one of those scans literally shows Naoya covering far more distance than Maki does which would make him faster, her awakening enhanced her senses and gave her precog abilities but there's no mention of her becoming faster, Maki being able to move in mid-air was another ability she got from her enhanced senses and when she does tag Naoya, Naoya hadn't built up speed to reach Mach 3 again.
Click to expand...
ever heard that there is a difference between travel and combat speed?
 
KingTempest said:
i agree with it scaling to those 4 characters. I don’t agree with it scaling to anyone else atm
Click to expand...
If you are okay with this then I think as long as we call Planck back in to give his final verdict I think we can close this thread for now with an asterisk given the immense amount of discussion/work that needs to be done. Me and you don't seem to be agreeing as of now, and th thread just keeps getting lost in several different conversations. Are you okay with that?
 
Sir_sun_man said:
we need to see more of the fight between the two to actually make sure that she is scaling to hakari in jackpot(or to whom she scales to in general since ya know she is a bit of an enigma)
Click to expand...
I think she froze the complete domain of Hakari. They didn't had any fight from what I understand Yuji needed to destroy it from outside.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_236_i_017.png
 
Shey said:
Combat speed falls under physical ability which CE amps
This strawman is not necessary
Click to expand...
"Strawman is not necessary" stop it

Somebody find this statement and find raws. Half the time I see "physical ability" in manga it just translates to strength

We never get a statement of speed being enhanced but we have like 8 of strength.
Dr._whiteee said:
If you are okay with this then I think as long as we call Planck back in to give his final verdict I think we can close this thread for now with an asterisk given the immense amount of discussion/work that needs to be done. Me and you don't seem to be agreeing as of now, and th thread just keeps getting lost in several different conversations. Are you okay with that?
Click to expand...
Already did
 
SunDaGamer said:
and we've got showings like Jogo who scales below Naobito taking out Nanami and Maki before they can react to him coming at them so if Kashimo was x500 faster than Hakari then Hakari wouldn't even be able to exchange hands with him.
Click to expand...
The difference there is that Jogo didnt give them the chance to throw hands, he blitzed them like Kashimo does to Hakari and one shot them with his fire. Kashimo kept piling on hits giving Hakari the chance to defend himself which he still fails at.
 
Giannysmag said:
The difference there is that Jogo didnt give them the chance to throw hands, he blitzed them like Kashimo does to Hakari and one shot them with his fire. Kashimo kept piling on hits giving Hakari the chance to defend himself which he still fails at.
Click to expand...
Also Kashimo didn't had any intention of killing Hakari when he was throwing hands dude was analysing the situation. But once he got full information dude went into killer mode. He got Serious and excited to kill him later onwards when Jackpot hit. Dude objective was kill Hakari when he was immortal. Knowing how Kashimo mind works.
PzI1SfuSfXg.jpg

But Kashimo did one shoted Hakari when Round ended
 
KingTempest said:
"Strawman is not necessary" stop it

Somebody find this statement and find raws. Half the time I see "physical ability" in manga it just translates to strength

We never get a statement of speed being enhanced but we have like 8 of strength.
Click to expand...
It is necessary when you're doing it, CE is stated to Amp Physicals but you're keeping it as 'Well it doesn't involve Combat speed' for whatever reason
CE amps speed, that's it and there's no reason why otherwise would be the case.
Dr. Whiteee can assist with linking the raws and TLs, IDK how to do so without Imgur.
You're just asking to be spoon-fed info atp
 
Arkenis said:
Not an exact confirmation but his confidence to engage with Gojo right there even while having less fingers is enough to imply Sukuna scales comfortably.
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Don’t really think this is a solid argument considering 1F Sukuna was fully confident in his ability to take down Gojo as soon as he took over Yuji’s body
 
KingTempest said:
"Strawman is not necessary" stop it

Somebody find this statement and find raws. Half the time I see "physical ability" in manga it just translates to strength

We never get a statement of speed being enhanced but we have like 8 of strength.
Click to expand...
I agree with KT on this. CE amps work as reinforcing the limbs of the person that controls the CE, allowing for them to hit harder and block strong attacks with cursed energy. So it buffs AP and durability

There hasn’t been a single showing in the series of CE explicitly amplifying speed outside of cursed techniues
 
Shey said:
It is necessary when you're doing it, CE is stated to Amp Physicals but you're keeping it as 'Well it doesn't involve Combat speed' for whatever reason
CE amps speed, that's it and there's no reason why otherwise would be the case.
Dr. Whiteee can assist with linking the raws and TLs, IDK how to do so without Imgur.
You're just asking to be spoon-fed info atp
Click to expand...
Get me the chapter where it says it amps physical abilities. I’ll find the raws myself
 
Damn 7 pages.

Anyway I just came by to say that I think 3F Sukuna is just as fast as 15F considering we don’t actually know if CE enhances speed (may be wrong but KT convinced me it doesn’t offsite). Not to mention Sukuna claimed that his movements were unhindered even though Megumi was ******* up his CE manipulation.

So even though I disagree with putting 3F Sukuna ~ Toji via Megumi’s unreliable words, it doesn’t really harm any scaling since Sukuna is just that fast regardless of the number of fingers he possesses.

I have my issues with the whole Maki Naoya stuff offsite since this Maki clearly scales to Sukuna’s speed, but I won’t comment here on it until I read all that’s been said here first.
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
I agree with KT on this. CE amps work as reinforcing the limbs of the person that controls the CE, allowing for them to hit harder and block strong attacks with cursed energy. So it buffs AP and durability

There hasn’t been a single showing in the series of CE explicitly amplifying speed outside of cursed techniues
Click to expand...
Yuji amped his fist with CE then outsped the CE in his fist and created a move after it. Amps speed my ass
 
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