Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

[Shey]

I'd dispute that part about Hakari. "Going all out" seems to imply he held back at one point which i already disagree with.

There's no indication that Base Hakari held back
But there is for Jackpot Hakari which is exactly what "Going all out" means
I literally sent scans of JP Hakari completely overwhelming Kashimo with speed, something he was not doing prior, it does not matter if you disagree.

He stated that he can move normally.

CE output may affect speed, i am not saying it's a non factor, it's just not a significant enough factor to warrant Sukuna being anywhere near 10% normal speed.

I am referring to the actual translation of the Japanese kanji, it has Sukuna say Physical Movement isn't as bad as his CE Output and there's visual evidence supporting that from his Finger twitching in the previous chapter

If CE was a significant speed amp then Yuji would not be able to fight a Grade 1 Sorcerer without it because Higuruma would have access to physically reinforce his speed with CE while Yuji could not. Otherwise Higuruma and every Grade 1 Sorcerer would be borderline fodder for Yuji which would **** up the powerscaling.

There is nothing supporting ''Yuji would not be able to fight a Grade 1 Sorcerer without it'' we see him do it and there is no case for otherwise.
This is not a defeater, Yuji does not combat him with CE prior

Anyways glad to have discussed this with you but i would like to get back to the original topic. If you disagree with the idea that CE doesn't amp speed by a significant amount then i guess you could provide evidence? You have argued a shaky point very well but i don't know of any direct evidence that it does, so i'd like to see that.

And then afterwards we could move on with the original topic of the CRT lol. I did not expect to start a whole new discussion, my bad

I provided evidence with the Yuta Okkotsu scans are you even reading what I'm sending???

 

[YeahhBoyee]

There's no indication that Base Hakari held back
But there is for Jackpot Hakari which is exactly what "Going all out" means
I literally sent scans of JP Hakari completely overwhelming Kashimo with speed, something he was not doing prior, it does not matter if you disagree.

You did not? All i saw is a page of Hakari being slugged. This is the link you sent.

Maybe you sent the wrong one? Im still waiting for evidence.

I am referring to the actual translation of the Japanese kanji, it has Sukuna say Physical Movement isn't as bad as his CE Output and there's visual evidence supporting that from his Finger twitching in the previous chapter

Alright, it could well be that we have a mistranslation since the official volume releases have been pretty sub-par in TL quality. That's why i mainly go off TCB but if you have a Japanese page that just directly disagrees with that, it would obviously be fantastic evidence.

But i am once again asking for a link, because i don't see one.

There is nothing supporting ''Yuji would not be able to fight a Grade 1 Sorcerer without it'' we see him do it and there is no case for otherwise.
This is not a defeater, Yuji does not combat him with CE prior

Well if what you are saying is that CE is a massive speed amp, then with that speed amp active he should be blitzing Grade 1's. But Yuji is nowhere near that strong, before fighting Higgy he'd literally just been getting hit by the borderline fodder Helicopter-head (who lost to a regular military squad later) and not too long ago he'd lost to a Grade 1 (Choso) so Yuji suddenly fodderizing them would just f*ck up JJK power-scaling even more, if that's even physically possible.

I provided evidence with the Yuta Okkotsu scans are you even reading what I'm sending???

That's not evidence... that's an interpretation of what happened. There are established rage amps (such as Yuji's against Sukuna) and that negative emotions can make Cursed energy stronger. Geto stating an increase in physical ability was never put in question, it massively increases durability and strength and there's countless evidence for that, what im asking is that it provides a similar increase in speed for which there is a notable lack of evidence.

Kenjaku saying "it's not good to imbue so much CE, it breaks the vessel" refers to Yuta pumping so much CE into his Katana that it broke. Not his body "outputting too much energy and that is the reason why he got faster", to quote you, im sorry but are YOU reading what you are sending?

At best this is some circumstancial evidence that could be used to back up your main evidence. But if these scans are all you have in over 200 chapters of JJK when in contrast there are virtually limitless examples of Cursed energy amping durability and strength, it shouldn't be a surprise to you why i call that idea into question.

That's not even considering all the outliers this concept would introduce, like how Naobito became the second fastest sorcerer with his overall level as a sorcerer being Special Grade 1.

---

Lastly, to put things into perspective, a few pages ago this CRT had a raging debate over wheter Sukuna was at 100% speed or 10% speed. 10%. That was the main part that i was rejecting. Sure, CE definitely boosts overall physical abilities specifically durability and strength and possibly also speed to a obviously lesser extent but saying that Sukuna is at 10% speed when he says that his movement is unrestricted and barely affected is ridiculous. Your Japanese scan could change everything, but you'll have to drop that nuke first.

Thanks for staying mostly civil

 

[ImmortalDread]

Fix your vote tally since @Damage3245 is not a thread moderator.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Fix your vote tally since @Damage3245 is not a thread moderator.

@Planck69 also disagreed.

 

[Maitreya12]

Not many people scale to Hakari and Kashimo anyways. Unless something in the upcoming chapters proves otherwise, Yuta (and everyone that scales to him) and Maki (and everyone that scales to her) don’t even scale to Hakari’s physical stats in Jackpot as Maki lacks the feats or scaling, and Yuta (and Gege outside of the manga) go under the notion that Hakari is stronger than him.
In context we know Hakari is a physical based fighter with Jackpot mega amping his stats and output.

Saying the 3 of them are heavy hitters doesn’t necessarily mean they all have relative stats since, as far as we know, Hakari doesn’t have any hax and is pure stats while Yuta and Maki have lower stats but more hax, so for them to all be considered ‘on the same tier’ should mean Hakari’s stats are high enough to make up for the hax discrepancy.

As for Maki, the notion that she scales to 15F Sukuna completely ignores the context of the fight. Sukuna was quite literally just playing around with them and was adjusting his speed to match them as they fought. He most likely wasn’t going all out.

Even ignoring that, Maki’s physical movements may scale her to or below Mach 3, but her Toji level precog allows her to “effectively fight” on a faster level with the upper limit of what they can’t react to being Awakened Gojo’s Hollow Purple and Uraume’s Dead Calm. So far, nothing below those 2 tiers of attack speed is probably faster than her precog ‘amped’ combat speed

But as for Sukuna not even using his full speed in that encounter

For one, he states that if something entertains him, he ‘throws it a bone’

And he’s done this from as far back as the first finger bearer, Megumi, Jogo, Yorozu etc trying to scale himself back to match his opponent if they interest him. And Maki’s overall strength interested pre bath Sukuna at the moment.

But look at the whole thing in context.

First Sukuna says he can easily kill Yuji (who scales to Maki)

Then Sukuna using about the same speed he was initially fighting Yuji with gets tagged by Maki

Maki and Yuji

Decide to speed up, and Sukuna can pretty much handle both of their amped speeds at the same time while not seeming seriously pressed at all

Not really taking the fight seriously and just having fun, he’s still casually keeping up with them

But the real proof of the differences in speed comes next. Note how Yuji, Maki and Sukuna are all in line with each other horizontally on the street.

Uraume pops out, flexes their CE and makes their presence known so it isn’t a sneak attack. Yuji, Maki and Sukuna all notice at the same time

Whole area gets AOE nuked

A still casual 15F Sukuna dodged the attack from the same distance Yuji and Maki were at, while both of them get tagged by the attack. And again, all 3 were alerted of their presence at the same time. So Sukuna is clearly faster than Yuji and Maki.

This also scales Uraume’s speed, or at the very least attack speed above Yuji and Maki’s combat speed and even Maki’s precog amped “effective” combat speed, so whatever happens with Uraume vs Hakari doesn’t contradict the speed scale since they’re both above Maki and Yuji. Can’t even use the fact that it was an AOE attack as an anti feat since Sukuna was able to clear the entire attack from the same distance away they were at.

Sukuna on multiple separate occasions

Praised Maki for how strong she was, and how she wasn’t an easy person to take down like Yuji was, about how it’s better to focus on her rather than Yuji. Your entire point, the entire premise about Sukuna “playing around” that you’ve said, makes no sense in the context of Sukuna’s character because he only values those of the strong. That’s what “entertains him.” When someone is strong and can put up a fight against him, hence why he was praising Maki multiple times throughout the fight. Because she could keep up with him, she could handle the level he was at, something Sukuna noticed and acknowledged multiple times in that chapter.

Looking at the context, in the very same scan you bring of Sukuna saying he can easily kill Yuji, who you scale to Maki, he literally says Maki is not someone who’s easy to take down.

Why ignore that context? How could say to look at things in context but then try to say Maki and Yuji were comparably easy for Sukuna to take down when Sukuna himself notes that Maki is not someone to be taken lightly, nor is she easy to take down.

Other instances such as Uruame, the reason Maki and Yuji didn’t avoid but Sukuna could was because she wasn’t aiming at Sukuna. Simple, she already expressed how she could target her CT onto specific people, which is exactly what she did for Maki. And the fact that she was also closer to Yuji and Maki when she launched her attack is notable as well.

The notion of “oh Sukuna’s not being that serious, they don’t scale, he was just playing around with them.” Is something not supported in the series nor the chapters themselves because Sukuna comments and notes about how strong and impressive Maki is, something Sukuna doesn’t do for characters unless he specifically acknowledges them as being part of the strong and being impressive in their own right.

Again, ain’t gonna tolerate this Maki slander

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Fix your vote tally since @Damage3245 is not a thread moderator.

Fixed

@Planck69 also disagreed.

Added

 

[YukaSama4]

If you wanna scale Maki to 15F Sukuna because of him saying she isn't easy to take down blah blah blah, then remember that Maki said "we won't be able to beat Kenjaku with conventional ways" - fan translations
"Kenjaku is a challenge" - viz

Their plan was to jump Kenjaku at once after Gojo beats Sukuna

Ryu and Uro could keep up with Yuta and then Sukuna was blitzing Ryu, he moved his hand before Ryu, he then decided to fight for real and blitzed Ryu completely

Then you have all of this supported by the fact that she's equal to Toji whose speed rivals 3F Sukuna which is an argument that was used throughout all this thread as a counter to the OP

 

[Maitreya12]

Kenjaku….the same guy that 2v1’d the special grade sorcerer Yuki and am awakened grade 1 Choso who also had help from Tengen on the side and the only other person in the whole series to have an open domain…

Yeah I do in fact think he would be a challenge, I don’t see what this proves.

I don’t know what Yuta has to do with Maki scaling to 15F Sukuna either.

Toji never caps at 3F Sukuna level either since Megumi says he could be even faster (there’s also the point about how Toji wouldn’t be going all out against his son Megumi butwhatever.) Also the fact that Naobito is faster than Jogo (who is around 8F Sukuna level), but slower than chess Naoya who Maki beat disproves this notion as well.

 

[YukaSama4]

No it's not how it works, not when the same Kenjaku was about to get blitzed and killed by Gojo in 2 panels then Sukuna stopped the same Gojo and made him retreat, 15F is far above Kenjaku, and had he not stopped Gojo, Kenjaku would've been killed right there, if Maki scales to that Sukuna then she alone will destroy Kenjaku quickly, in fact Kenjaku even knows about hidden inventory and Gojo killing Toji, but he thought 15F Sukuna would be enough to beat adult Gojo, which means 15F Sukuna is above teen Gojo whom Toji couldn't even touch


Yuta is above both Maki and Yuji, even Maki says "if Yuta dies, we will lose all our insurance" and also Maki decided that Kenjaku would be a challenge since Yuki was defeated and she has the same rank as Yuta.



Megumi saying "even faster" is explained in the same chapter, he later said "his speed rivals Sukuna", Toji was about Sukuna's speed that's all.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No it's not how it works, not when the same Kenjaku was about to get blitzed and killed by Gojo in 2 panels then Sukuna stopped the same Gojo and made him retreat, 15F is far above Kenjaku, and had he not stopped Gojo, Kenjaku would've been killed right there, if Maki scales to that Sukuna then she alone will destroy Kenjaku quickly, in fact Kenjaku even knows about hidden inventory and Gojo killing Toji, but he thought 15F Sukuna would be enough to beat adult Gojo, which means 15F Sukuna is above teen Gojo whom Toji couldn't even touch


Yuta is above both Maki and Yuji, even Maki says "if Yuta dies, we will lose all our insurance" and also Maki decided that Kenjaku would be a challenge since Yuki was defeated and she has the same rank as Yuta.



Megumi saying "even faster" is explained in the same chapter, he later said "his speed rivals Sukuna", Toji was about Sukuna's speed that's all.

Yeah completely agree if Maki is on 15F Sukuna she should be enough to neg Kenjaku

Also let's not forget 3F Sukuna was also not going all out.

 

[Maitreya12]

No it's not how it works, not when the same Kenjaku was about to get blitzed and killed by Gojo in 2 panels then Sukuna stopped the same Gojo and made him retreat, 15F is far above Kenjaku, and had he not stopped Gojo, Kenjaku would've been killed right there, if Maki scales to that Sukuna then she alone will destroy Kenjaku quickly, in fact Kenjaku even knows about hidden inventory and Gojo killing Toji, but he thought 15F Sukuna would be enough to beat adult Gojo, which means 15F Sukuna is above teen Gojo whom Toji couldn't even touch


Yuta is above both Maki and Yuji, even Maki says "if Yuta dies, we will lose all our insurance" and also Maki decided that Kenjaku would be a challenge since Yuki was defeated and she has the same rank as Yuta.



Megumi saying "even faster" is explained in the same chapter, he later said "his speed rivals Sukuna", Toji was about Sukuna's speed that's all.

Actually it is how it works since not scaling to Gojo isn’t an anti-feat to scaling to 15F Sukuna. And blitzed? Are you sure about that since we can clearly see him reacting to the attack coming right here:

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_011.png

Also Sukuna didn’t “make Gojo retreat” I don’t know what you’re talking about. Sukuna jumped in to attack Gojo when he was about to attack Kenjaku. Which Gojo is blocking with his infinity.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_013.png

Unless you think 15F Sukuna is > Satoru Gojo then Gojo just willingly chose to pause the fight for a predetermined day because he was just released from the prison realm and had no idea what was going on outside nor even how long it’s been since he first got stuck in there.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_017.png

Yeah Maki scales to Sukuna in that she can box with him in hand to hand combat, but you understand she doesn’t scale to his CT right? A sorcerer’s most dangerous asset about them is their CT, the only exception to this is Maki herself. Just because she’s able to box with 15F Sukuna without the use of his CT while she has Yuji aiding her on the side doesn’t mean she’s able to dog Kenjaku so easily. You can be inferior to a person and still scale to them.

Oh by the way bringing up Yuta being a “last resort” for Kenjaku just goes against your point and supports my own because Maki herself was gonna go and fight Sukuna so that just proves that Kenjaku does in fact scale to Sukuna since Maki herself was gonna go fight 20F Sukuna while she wanted to save the stronger Yuta for Kenjaku. So yeah, the point you bring up about Maki wanting to save Yuta as insurance for Kenjaku while she fought Sukuna just proves to the point that Kenjaku is in fact a challenger and does indeed scale.

For the Toji stuff I already explained how he was said to be faster than the Sukuna he was “rivaling” meaning that 3F isn’t a cap for him in speed, along with a whole bunch other stuff that disproves that notion as well so I’ll just quote the stuff that wasn’t addressed again.

Toji never caps at 3F Sukuna level either since Megumi says he could be even faster (there’s also the point about how Toji wouldn’t be going all out against his son Megumi butwhatever.) Also the fact that Naobito is faster than Jogo (who is around 8F Sukuna level), but slower than chess Naoya who Maki beat disproves this notion as well.

 

[chosen]

Didn't the new Maki who's equal to Toji get blitzed by lightning from much further distances? Same Maki who scales to 15F Sukuna?

Nue lighting?
If so that was blocked

 

[M3X_2.0]

That's some crazy supersonic feat

 

[PowerToScale]

That's some crazy supersonic feat

Hypersonic

Jujutsu Kaisen: Maki Blocks Lightning

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[M3X_2.0]

Hypersonic

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:powerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Maki_Blocks_Lightning

Damn, almost.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Hypersonic

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:powerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Maki_Blocks_Lightning

Isn't the lightning much further away from the building though?

 

[SunDaGamer]

Why're we arguing over 15F Sukuna's speed being nerfed, the alt translation of the raws has Sukuna saying that his movement isn't as hampered as his CE output (which is lowered by a magnitude of x10 at worst) which means that he is <x10 slower if we interpret that as his speed decreasing. KT's point about the speed discrepency on 10% of 15F Sukuna's speed being Mach 50 according to the proposal still applies.

I also don't understand the point about Sukuna toying with his enemies and therefore matching pace with them when he was still blitzing the Finger Bearer, Megumi and Jogo despite toying with them.

 

[Outcast]

Sukuna saying he could move his body unhindered refers to Megumi not being able to regain control of his body like Yuji could imo....i dont think it necessarily means that he could use his full speed.. otherwise it wouldnt make sense considering we see how strong an unbridled 15F Sukuna is in comparison to characters like Ryu (who should somewhat scale to Yuta, and by extension, Maki and Yuji)

 

[SunDaGamer]

Isn't the lightning much further away from the building though?

It is, the lightning starts from above the panel's POV which is above the buildings

 

[SunDaGamer]

Sukuna saying he could move his body unhindered refers to Megumi not being able to regain control of his body like Yuji could imo....i dont think it necessarily means that he could use his full speed.. otherwise it wouldnt make sense considering we see how strong an unbridled 15F Sukuna is in comparison to characters like Ryu (who should somewhat scale to Yuta, and by extension, Maki and Yuji)

This is one of the reasons why I'm for scaling an unhindered 15F Sukuna above the 15F Sukuna against Maki and Yuji (although the hindrance in speed would have to be less than a x10 reduction based on what the alt translation of the raws is saying)

 

[M3X_2.0]

It is, the lightning starts from above the panel's POV which is above the buildings

I see. The calc need changes then.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Lastly, to put things into perspective, a few pages ago this CRT had a raging debate over wheter Sukuna was at 100% speed or 10% speed. 10%. That was the main part that i was rejecting. Sure, CE definitely boosts overall physical abilities specifically durability and strength and possibly also speed to a obviously lesser extent but saying that Sukuna is at 10% speed when he says that his movement is unrestricted and barely affected is ridiculous. Your Japanese scan could change everything, but you'll have to drop that nuke first.

Scan

Translation

There is some instability; my cursed energy output goes under ten percent at its worst. My movement is not the same, though...

 

[KingTempest]

Who are these people?

You can't say these people and show one guy
It doesn't look like his combat speed changed at all. Just his movement, via shooting off the ground with enhanced leg strength.
So yeah his speed increased, but it was movement speed. Not combat speed that we're scaling in the OP

Why're we arguing over 15F Sukuna's speed being nerfed, the alt translation of the raws has Sukuna saying that his movement isn't as hampered as his CE output (which is lowered by a magnitude of x10 at worst) which means that he is <x10 slower if we interpret that as his speed decreasing. KT's point about the speed discrepency on 10% of 15F Sukuna's speed being Mach 50 according to the proposal still applies.

Idk man

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I see. The calc need changes then.

Can you try to recalculate that? It would be helpful.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I also don't understand the point about Sukuna toying with his enemies and therefore matching pace with them when he was still blitzing the Finger Bearer, Megumi and Jogo despite toying with them.

If you actually read this reply you wouldn't be saying this..

But look at the whole thing in context.

First Sukuna says he can easily kill Yuji (who scales to Maki)

Then Sukuna using about the same speed he was initially fighting Yuji with gets tagged by Maki

Maki and Yuji

Decide to speed up, and Sukuna can pretty much handle both of their amped speeds at the same time while not seeming seriously pressed at all

Not really taking the fight seriously and just having fun, he’s still casually keeping up with them

But the real proof of the differences in speed comes next. Note how Yuji, Maki and Sukuna are all in line with each other horizontally on the street.

Uraume pops out, flexes their CE and makes their presence known so it isn’t a sneak attack. Yuji, Maki and Sukuna all notice at the same time

Whole area gets AOE nuked

A still casual 15F Sukuna dodged the attack from the same distance Yuji and Maki were at, while both of them get tagged by the attack. And again, all 3 were alerted of their presence at the same time. So Sukuna is clearly faster than Yuji and Maki.

This also scales Uraume’s speed, or at the very least attack speed above Yuji and Maki’s combat speed and even Maki’s precog amped “effective” combat speed, so whatever happens with Uraume vs Hakari doesn’t contradict the speed scale since they’re both above Maki and Yuji. Can’t even use the fact that it was an AOE attack as an anti feat since Sukuna was able to clear the entire attack from the same distance away they were at.

 

[KingTempest]

Can someone please list the arguments on why Sukuna'd be slower?

 

[Maitreya12]

Scan

Translation

He’s talking about his Cursed Technique’s output, not his general stat output. He even directly clarifies as such.

This very statement you’re referencing, Sukuna’s initial statement of his “output fluctuating” was made in reference to his CT. The output he’s talking about here is his technique’s energy output, not his physical stats, hence why he specifically mentions his techniques output was being reduced, not his general output or mention of his physical stats being compromised.

Sukuna’s physicals couldn’t have been nerfed by what you’re claiming because Sukuna was literally praising how well Maki was able to tank one of his punches.

Why would Sukuna be literally complimenting Maki if she’s supposedly taking a “weak” punch by him? This position makes no sense with how the characters behave in the fight itself.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

He’s talking about his Cursed Technique’s output, not his general stat output. He even directly clarifies as such.

This very statement you’re referencing, Sukuna’s initial statement of his “output fluctuating” was made in reference to his CT. The output he’s talking about here is his technique’s energy output, not his physical stats, hence why he specifically mentions his techniques output was being reduced, not his general output or mention of his physical stats being compromised.

Sukuna’s physicals couldn’t have been nerfed by what you’re claiming because Sukuna was literally praising how well Maki was able to tank one of his punches.

Why would Sukuna be literally complimenting Maki if she’s supposedly taking a “weak” punch by him? This position makes no sense with how the characters behave in the fight itself.

? I was just posting the raw for homie. I'm not sure if this post was meant for me.

 

[Maitreya12]

? I was just posting the raw for homie. I'm not sure if this post was meant for me.

Oh sorry my B, I thought the conversation regarding Maki scaling to Sukuna was still going on.

 

[KingTempest]

I thought it was

 

[SunDaGamer]

If you actually read this reply you wouldn't be saying this..

I did read it, the basis for Sukuna holding back his speed to match his opponent is that he toys with people who entertain him even though he was particularly interested in Megumi, praising his technique and even implying Megumi could beat the Finger Bearer, but was still blitzing him to kingdom come.

But the real proof of the differences in speed comes next. Note how Yuji, Maki and Sukuna are all in line with each other horizontally on the street.

Uraume pops out, flexes their CE and makes their presence known so it isn’t a sneak attack. Yuji, Maki and Sukuna all notice at the same time

Whole area gets AOE nuked

A still casual 15F Sukuna dodged the attack from the same distance Yuji and Maki were at, while both of them get tagged by the attack. And again, all 3 were alerted of their presence at the same time. So Sukuna is clearly faster than Yuji and Maki.

This doesn't mean anything, Sukuna was on an adjacent street so he was not in direct line with Yuji, Maki and Uraume. Uraume would obviously direct their attack so that Sukuna wouldn't be hit.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Oh sorry my B, I thought the conversation regarding Maki scaling to Sukuna was still going on.

Yeah, I don't think Sukuna was at 100%, but he was clearly not as impacted with physicals. The Raws also support that his body was rejecting his ability to use CE for his CT.

Although I don't think it's relevant, no one really addressed my earlier Maki points, so I don't see how pre-enlightenment Maki has any bearing on the scaling.

 

[KingTempest]

Although I don't think it's relevant, no one really addressed my earlier Maki points, so I don't see how pre-enlightenment Maki has any bearing on the scaling.

Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

You gon have to kill me to make me disagree cause ain't no way I'm done KT if you still keep ignoring the part Sukuna was weakned here.

vsbattles.com

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

You gon have to kill me to make me disagree cause ain't no way I'm done KT if you still keep ignoring the part Sukuna was weakned here.

vsbattles.com

Huh, missed that one

 

[PowerToScale]

I see. The calc need changes then.

I see what I forgot. I forgot to add the height of Nue's wings above the building, will fix it later when free.

 

[KingTempest]

Huh, missed that one

This the funniest I've ever seen you

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Which effectively gave her a method of precognition via her enhanced senses.
It's like saying "it's not fire manipulation, it's manipulating the concept of friction to a large extent to ignite the air".
It's effectively the same result.

I think you are missing vital nuance here, especially in relation to the conclusion you are coming to.

Pre-cognition in the formal sense means getting information from a "sixth sense" that either precedes the actual event itself or the person's usually ability to otherwise sense said phenomena. This is important because it allows the user to react to said information prior to the thing that would typically be too fast for them.

That's not what Maki's doing. Maki's senses are so keen that her field of awareness has skyrocketed to level of being able to visualize the air currents in the atmosphere and has access to the information of the environment. This means that her amps are a direct result of her base sense being amplified, which is obviously what she utilizes to dodge/react normally, and we she treats Naoya like fodder subsequently. We saw a similar thing happen with Toji and are explicitly told his base 5 senses are just that good without CE.

He never struggled to keep up with his speed. He couldn't sense him. He noted that he was fast, but he couldn't sense his presence cause of his lack of CE.
Toji was certain he could tag him if pulled by Blue and that his [Toji's] speed was effective.

Yes he did, Gojos explicitly states "he isn't just fast" meaning both the speed and Gojo's inability to track him were an issue. In fact, Gojo says this because toji literally just escaped the pull of his blue with his speed alone. This is pretty evident by Toji flying around the entire area. Gojo has the six eyes which allow him to see through objects and gives him clairvoyance over vast distances. He also has blue to casually shinra tensei people, so the fact that toji was able to accomplish stuff with sheer speed, means Gojo was indeed struggling to keep up with his movements.

The anime makes this readily apparent and also shows a moment similar to Maki's awakening where she becomes one with her surroundings and is given a similar speed amp/moment, further highlighting the similarities.

Nothing says he was moving at Mach 3 in that instance.
In order for him to move at Mach 3, he needs to accelerate through a ridiculous distance while expelling air out of his sides. We see the air that leaves his sides as he accelerates to Mach 3.

Not really

We see Naoya turn tails and fly upward and away exactly like last time. Kamo himself flat out states it's exactly what he did for the mach 3 blitz and we see the callback panel.

Next time we see him he is flying through buildings and lamenting that he can't touch Maki. We even see the buildings being passively damaged by the air currents which was a visual cue for the initial mach 3 speed.

this is capped off by newly enlightened Maki learning that Toji would have reacted to Naoya, which she then proves by ducking him mid air at top speed, to his own surprise.

He wasn't expelling air and he wasn't gaining speed by accelerating through a large distance. He was too busy running into buildings to tag Maki.
Nothing shows Post-Realization Maki reacting to Mach 3 at all. She reacts to the same slower Naoya like she and Kamo did prior to her realization.

I mean that's just no true and is pretty much completely ignoring the entire narrative established to that point.

Reacting to lightning hundreds of feat in the air is not an impressive feat sir.

It is much more impressive than mach 3 doe.

I think you're trying too hard here to just prove "the Mach 3 wall is wrong" instead of proving the issue we have wrong.

I did cover that above, and the mach 3 wall issue is indeed a huge portion of that. Especially when a goodwill arc Maki already has several superspnic+ feats and a hypersonic feat. That Maki is <<<<< Awakened Maki who is << Enlightened Maki. So the idea that speeds like Mach 3 are some crazy notion seems really inconsistent to me.

He gives her credit for withstanding the attack. Not for blocking it.
"I don't see damage from Nue. I guess she isn't easy to take down"

Correct, and given that Gege draws her blocking the attack, a portion of the impressiveness would be reacting in time to put up a defense and take negligible damage.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I did read it, the basis for Sukuna holding back his speed to match his opponent is that he toys with people who entertain him even though he was particularly interested in Megumi, praising his technique and even implying Megumi could beat the Finger Bearer, but was still blitzing him to kingdom come.

You should read both Megumi and Finger barrier fight. There are instances where Sukuna did let them hit him and match his speed.

Also there is instances of Sukuna Bliztes Mahogara later instead of destroying it with one shot he tends to play with it despite having big speed advantage.

This doesn't mean anything, Sukuna was on an adjacent street so he was not in direct line with Yuji, Maki and Uraume. Uraume would obviously direct their attack so that Sukuna wouldn't be hit.

Nice Argument from Ignorance.
I will try to explain as much as possible I hope you can understand.
Sukuna was on one track and Maki & Yuji were on another and both were standing on EQ line POV.
Here in the scans both tracks are frozen it's not that Uraume ignored to froze Sukunas track. Don't see where it showed she ignored that. Unless feel free to send me the scans for one track not being frozen by it.

Also let's not ignore Maki has Prec and Enviornment instict skill or whatever which makes her to react Naoyas speed.

Still only Sukuna realised Uraume entry first. Maki couldn't even notice her. Also She was letting her Cursed Energy out if Maki has same speed as Sukuna she would have blizted Uraume.

Gojo whose speed was on 15F could easily blitz Uraume. Who blizted Maki.

So what?

15F Sukuna ~ Gojo > Uraume > Maki ~ 15F Sukuna

 

[Arkenis]

It is, the lightning starts from above the panel's POV which is above the buildings

Wouldn't u just use average cloud height?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Another Point

• Maki matches intial speed which Sukuna was fighting Yuji

• Maki Suggested to increasing her speed and suggested to Yuji to increase his speed

• Sukuna increased his speed much more than previously and way head of them. They needed to extend the reach for Sukunas speed and hit him with a surprise attack which is clearly shown by throwing Yuji at him. Before that Maki and Yuji couldn't even catch his speed.

• Sukuna also increased his speed in next panel casually keeping up with both of them with just single hand where we seen him getting smoked by using double hands against Maki in first panel which shows his speed here increased Depending on Maki and Yuji. Dude also increased the speed when using Cleave we can see Maki and Yuji hand being in distance Before reaching Sukuna. Where we see previously he was using one hand to keep them at bay.

• Oh later that Both Maki and Yuji couldn't even tag or land a single hit on Sukuna. He also makes a big distance between two of them Despite we see in the same scans where Sukuna and maki are close and Sukuna was punching Maki.

• Already mentioned this Only Sukuna realised Uraume Blizting to the scene where Maki and Yuji were late to realise that and Uraume was clearly Emitting CE.

• Next we have AOE attack which Froze both tracks. Image doesn't show any indication of only Maki and Yuji track being Frozen. That's completely headcanon.

• Despite this if anyone wants to say Sukuna was seriously trying against Maki where he was clearly having higher speed advantage against both of them when he got serious at last moment. Additionally only thing which impressed Sukuna was Maki durability.

There comes someone might say he praised maki. But ignores he praises anyone he fights except Yuji (his seal )and Yorozu ( annoying). He praised Jogo Despite mocking him throughout the fight. He praised Ryu Despite Blizting and one shoting him. So please don't bring the arguments like Sukuna praised Maki.