Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

[Nierre]

Yeah I wasn't sure at first, but IMO Dr.white makes sense.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Another Point

• Maki matches intial speed which Sukuna was fighting Yuji

• Maki Suggested to increasing her speed and suggested to Yuji to increase his speed

• Sukuna increased his speed much more than previously and way head of them. They needed to extend the reach for Sukunas speed and hit him with a surprise attack which is clearly shown by throwing Yuji at him. Before that Maki and Yuji couldn't even catch his speed.

• Sukuna also increased his speed in next panel casually keeping up with both of them with just single hand where we seen him getting smoked by using double hands against Maki in first panel which shows his speed here increased Depending on Maki and Yuji. Dude also increased the speed when using Cleave we can see Maki and Yuji hand being in distance Before reaching Sukuna. Where we see previously he was using one hand to keep them at bay.

• Oh later that Both Maki and Yuji couldn't even tag or land a single hit on Sukuna. He also makes a big distance between two of them Despite we see in the same scans where Sukuna and maki are close and Sukuna was punching Maki.

• Already mentioned this Only Sukuna realised Uraume Blizting to the scene where Maki and Yuji were late to realise that and Uraume was clearly Emitting CE.

• Next we have AOE attack which Froze both tracks. Image doesn't show any indication of only Maki and Yuji track being Frozen. That's completely headcanon.

• Despite this if anyone wants to say Sukuna was seriously trying against Maki where he was clearly having higher speed advantage against both of them when he got serious at last moment. Additionally only thing which impressed Sukuna was Maki durability.

There comes someone might say he praised maki. But ignores he praises anyone he fights except Yuji (his seal )and Yorozu ( annoying). He praised Jogo Despite mocking him throughout the fight. He praised Ryu Despite Blizting and one shoting him. So please don't bring the arguments like Sukuna praised Maki.

Bro bro you have to learn how to link these images or cover them in spoilers. It's really dragging the pages.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Bro bro you have to learn how to link these images or cover them in spoilers. It's really dragging the pages.

I know how to link it spoiler. Just making sure some people don't ignore any scans that's all. Anyway I will mark it in spoilers if I make any replies (doubt I will make any).

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I guess anime would give a better information for this.

Jujutsu Kaisen: Sukuna's blinding entrance

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Arkenis]

I guess anime would give a better information for this.

Jujutsu Kaisen: Sukuna's blinding entrance

vsbattles.fandom.com

That feat is given enough information. Anime won't do anything but likely change Mahoraga's distance from Haruta.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That feat is given enough information. Anime won't do anything but likely change Mahoraga's distance from Haruta.

Ok. Should I ask some Calculation members to check the calculation?

 

[M3X_2.0]

I guess anime would give a better information for this.

Jujutsu Kaisen: Sukuna's blinding entrance

vsbattles.fandom.com

this calc STINKS

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

this calc STINKS

Still It Only solidifies Hakari calculation.
Also Kenjaku Black hole speed dodge feat which laser was talking about .

 

[M3X_2.0]

Still It Only solidifies Hakari calculation.

No it doesn't because it's wrong.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No it doesn't because it's wrong.

I see you are saying that calculation was wrong? Got it. Just wanted to be sure.

 

[SunDaGamer]

this calc STINKS

I tried too

Sukuna saves Shigemo

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yours is wrong too. The feat can't be calculated given our rules.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yours is wrong too. The feat can't be calculated given our rules.

Hypersonic

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:powerToScale/Jujutsu_Kaisen:_Maki_Blocks_Lightning

Any idea how much speed this would get after power fixes the distance?

 

[M3X_2.0]

likely supersonic as I previously predicted

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Yours is wrong too. The feat can't be calculated given our rules.

Dont we have some exceptions? Isnt like, case by case

 

[M3X_2.0]

And this one doesn't fit the criteria

EDIT: AFAIK though.

 

[KingTempest]

I think you are missing vital nuance here, especially in relation to the conclusion you are coming to.

Pre-cognition in the formal sense means getting information from a "sixth sense" that either precedes the actual event itself or the person's usually ability to otherwise sense said phenomena. This is important because it allows the user to react to said information prior to the thing that would typically be too fast for them.

That's not what Maki's doing. Maki's senses are so keen that her field of awareness has skyrocketed to level of being able to visualize the air currents in the atmosphere and has access to the information of the environment. This means that her amps are a direct result of her base sense being amplified, which is obviously what she utilizes to dodge/react normally, and we she treats Naoya like fodder subsequently. We saw a similar thing happen with Toji and are explicitly told his base 5 senses are just that good without CE.

Semantics my good sir. It provides the same ability, to react earlier and sense what's coming.

Yes he did, Gojos explicitly states "he isn't just fast" meaning both the speed and Gojo's inability to track him were an issue. In fact, Gojo says this because toji literally just escaped the pull of his blue with his speed alone. This is pretty evident by Toji flying around the entire area. Gojo has the six eyes which allow him to see through objects and gives him clairvoyance over vast distances. He also has blue to casually shinra tensei people, so the fact that toji was able to accomplish stuff with sheer speed, means Gojo was indeed struggling to keep up with his movements.

It was sheer speed and him being invisible. He was doing a bunch of surprise attacks and covering his tracks. It wasn't solely a speed issue. Saying it's just a speed issue ignores the main issue at hand, he was a normal human who couldn't be sensed by jujutsu sorcerer methods.

Not really

We see Naoya turn tails and fly upward and away exactly like last time. Kamo himself flat out states it's exactly what he did for the mach 3 blitz and we see the callback panel.

Next time we see him he is flying through buildings and lamenting that he can't touch Maki. We even see the buildings being passively damaged by the air currents which was a visual cue for the initial mach 3 speed.

Same thing except not at the same magnitude.

When he did it for the Mach 3 he accelerated an insanely large distance. When he did it against Maki the 2nd time he just chased her after moving for a little bit.

this is capped off by newly enlightened Maki learning that Toji would have reacted to Naoya, which she then proves by ducking him mid air at top speed, to his own surprise.

He would. I believe he would too.
I'm just saying that feat wasn't him moving at Mach 3.
He would've deflected Naoya, which wouldn't take relative speed. Just needs reactions.

I mean that's just no true and is pretty much completely ignoring the entire narrative established to that point.

Not at all.
Could Maki react to Naoya at Mach 3? Yes. Via the statement and narrative.
DID SHE do so at that point? No.

It is much more impressive than mach 3 doe.

Reacting to lightning from where lightning comes from in the sky is a subsonic feat.

I did cover that above, and the mach 3 wall issue is indeed a huge portion of that. Especially when a goodwill arc Maki already has several superspnic+ feats and a hypersonic feat. That Maki is <<<<< Awakened Maki who is << Enlightened Maki. So the idea that speeds like Mach 3 are some crazy notion seems really inconsistent to me.

No I understand that.
I'm just saying this thread isn't where to work on that.

 

[JnSteHar002]

I'm getting confused; spent most of my day trying to keep up w/this thread. Have we determined Hakari's feat acceptance status and scaling?

 

[KingTempest]

So even Dr.Whiteee agrees Maki's on Sukuna's level

He just doesn't agree with Maki being under Mach 3

Is this the whole thing @Dr._whiteee ?

 

[KingTempest]

I'm getting confused; spent most of my day trying to keep up w/this thread. Have we determined Hakari's feat acceptance status and scaling?

We're discussing if Maki scales to it.
If Maki scales, the calc can't be used
If Maki doesn't scale, then that can't be used to disregard the feat.

Can everyone stop talking about unevaluated randomly made calcs?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can everyone stop talking about unevaluated randomly made calcs?

No.

 

[KingTempest]

No.

Noted

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Not many people scale to Hakari and Kashimo anyways. Unless something in the upcoming chapters proves otherwise, Yuta (and everyone that scales to him) and Maki (and everyone that scales to her) don’t even scale to Hakari’s physical stats in Jackpot as Maki lacks the feats or scaling, and Yuta (and Gege outside of the manga) go under the notion that Hakari is stronger than him.
In context we know Hakari is a physical based fighter with Jackpot mega amping his stats and output.

Saying the 3 of them are heavy hitters doesn’t necessarily mean they all have relative stats since, as far as we know, Hakari doesn’t have any hax and is pure stats while Yuta and Maki have lower stats but more hax, so for them to all be considered ‘on the same tier’ should mean Hakari’s stats are high enough to make up for the hax discrepancy.

As for Maki, the notion that she scales to 15F Sukuna completely ignores the context of the fight. Sukuna was quite literally just playing around with them and was adjusting his speed to match them as they fought. He most likely wasn’t going all out.

Even ignoring that, Maki’s physical movements may scale her to or below Mach 3, but her Toji level precog allows her to “effectively fight” on a faster level with the upper limit of what they can’t react to being Awakened Gojo’s Hollow Purple and Uraume’s Dead Calm. So far, nothing below those 2 tiers of attack speed is probably faster than her precog ‘amped’ combat speed

But as for Sukuna not even using his full speed in that encounter

For one, he states that if something entertains him, he ‘throws it a bone’

And he’s done this from as far back as the first finger bearer, Megumi, Jogo, Yorozu etc trying to scale himself back to match his opponent if they interest him. And Maki’s overall strength interested pre bath Sukuna at the moment.

But look at the whole thing in context.

First Sukuna says he can easily kill Yuji (who scales to Maki)

Then Sukuna using about the same speed he was initially fighting Yuji with gets tagged by Maki

Maki and Yuji

Decide to speed up, and Sukuna can pretty much handle both of their amped speeds at the same time while not seeming seriously pressed at all

Not really taking the fight seriously and just having fun, he’s still casually keeping up with them

But the real proof of the differences in speed comes next. Note how Yuji, Maki and Sukuna are all in line with each other horizontally on the street.

Uraume pops out, flexes their CE and makes their presence known so it isn’t a sneak attack. Yuji, Maki and Sukuna all notice at the same time

Whole area gets AOE nuked

A still casual 15F Sukuna dodged the attack from the same distance Yuji and Maki were at, while both of them get tagged by the attack. And again, all 3 were alerted of their presence at the same time. So Sukuna is clearly faster than Yuji and Maki.

This also scales Uraume’s speed, or at the very least attack speed above Yuji and Maki’s combat speed and even Maki’s precog amped “effective” combat speed, so whatever happens with Uraume vs Hakari doesn’t contradict the speed scale since they’re both above Maki and Yuji. Can’t even use the fact that it was an AOE attack as an anti feat since Sukuna was able to clear the entire attack from the same distance away they were at.

Jo made a pretty good Arguments

Another Point

• Maki matches intial speed which Sukuna was fighting Yuji

• Maki Suggested to increasing her speed and suggested to Yuji to increase his speed

• Sukuna increased his speed much more than previously and way head of them. They needed to extend the reach for Sukunas speed and hit him with a surprise attack which is clearly shown by throwing Yuji at him. Before that Maki and Yuji couldn't even catch his speed.

• Sukuna also increased his speed in next panel casually keeping up with both of them with just single hand where we seen him getting smoked by using double hands against Maki in first panel which shows his speed here increased Depending on Maki and Yuji. Dude also increased the speed when using Cleave we can see Maki and Yuji hand being in distance Before reaching Sukuna. Where we see previously he was using one hand to keep them at bay.

• Oh later that Both Maki and Yuji couldn't even tag or land a single hit on Sukuna. He also makes a big distance between two of them Despite we see in the same scans where Sukuna and maki are close and Sukuna was punching Maki.

• Already mentioned this Only Sukuna realised Uraume Blizting to the scene where Maki and Yuji were late to realise that and Uraume was clearly Emitting CE.

• Next we have AOE attack which Froze both tracks. Image doesn't show any indication of only Maki and Yuji track being Frozen. That's completely headcanon.

• Despite this if anyone wants to say Sukuna was seriously trying against Maki where he was clearly having higher speed advantage against both of them when he got serious at last moment. Additionally only thing which impressed Sukuna was Maki durability.

There comes someone might say he praised maki. But ignores he praises anyone he fights except Yuji (his seal )and Yorozu ( annoying). He praised Jogo Despite mocking him throughout the fight. He praised Ryu Despite Blizting and one shoting him. So please don't bring the arguments like Sukuna praised Maki.

I already addressed Maki not scaling to Sukuna with each scans from same chapter.

You should read both Megumi and Finger barrier fight. There are instances where Sukuna did let them hit him and match his speed.

Also there is instances of Sukuna Bliztes Mahogara later instead of destroying it with one shot he tends to play with it despite having big speed advantage.

Nice Argument from Ignorance.
I will try to explain as much as possible I hope you can understand.
Sukuna was on one track and Maki & Yuji were on another and both were standing on EQ line POV.
Here in the scans both tracks are frozen it's not that Uraume ignored to froze Sukunas track. Don't see where it showed she ignored that. Unless feel free to send me the scans for one track not being frozen by it.

Also let's not ignore Maki has Prec and Enviornment instict skill or whatever which makes her to react Naoyas speed.

Still only Sukuna realised Uraume entry first. Maki couldn't even notice her. Also She was letting her Cursed Energy out if Maki has same speed as Sukuna she would have blizted Uraume.

Gojo whose speed was on 15F could easily blitz Uraume. Who blizted Maki.

Scaling Maki to Sukuna is just wrong.

Results would be if this if Maki scales to Sukuna which is utterly bullshit.

15F Sukuna ~ Gojo > Uraume > Maki ~ 15F Sukuna

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Semantics my good sir. It provides the same ability, to react earlier and sense what's coming.

It's not, the mechanics of both have consequences about their reactions. If Maki inherently can sense that far and fast with her base senses, then there is no distinction between that and her reaction speed.

If it was pure "pre-cognition" than maybe you could argue she is formulating responses prior to the attacks, and thus without it, her reactions would be dimmer. But that isn't the case, Maki is quite literally built like that. Even in that case, we have people like SM Naruto and spiderman, who use legit pre-cognition and I'm sure we don't dock their reactions for it.

It was sheer speed and him being invisible. He was doing a bunch of surprise attacks and covering his tracks. It wasn't solely a speed issue. Saying it's just a speed issue ignores the main issue at hand, he was a normal human who couldn't be sensed by jujutsu sorcerer methods.

Yes, so speed is the predominant factor given that Toji is a superhuman. Toji being "invisible" is only relevant if gojo is having a hard time keeping him within his focal frame. If Gojo was much faster in reactions or even on par, he'd be able to trace the trajectory, especially given he has what is essentially a byakugan. He couldn't, first and foremost because of the speed (which he explicitly notes twice) but also because Toji couldn't be sensed, which made Gojo have to rely solely on his base senses or "instinct". To try and frame that encounter as not being impacted by speed would be pretty invalid Imo.

Same thing except not at the same magnitude.

When he did it for the Mach 3 he accelerated an insanely large distance. When he did it against Maki the 2nd time he just chased her after moving for a little bit.

He and Maki did traverse an insanely large distance and we're not going to ignore the blatant narrative information indicating to us that Naoya was using his top speed again, especially when Naoya himself is completely helpless to tag her, not lamenting about not using his top speed or trying that. He is very clearly trying to kill her with his top speed again.

He would. I believe he would too.
I'm just saying that feat wasn't him moving at Mach 3.

I can't agree here, it's pretty open and shut tbh IMO.

He would've deflected Naoya, which wouldn't take relative speed. Just needs reactions.

I'd have to check the translations for accuracy, but this point is kinda moot given we literally see Maki outmanever his speed from less than 10m and before he himself (with at least match 3 reactions) notices. Mind you, she was mid air with no foothold.

Not at all.
Could Maki react to Naoya at Mach 3? Yes. Via the statement and narrative.
DID SHE do so at that point? No.

I don't think you've proven the last assertion here.

Reacting to lightning from where lightning comes from in the sky is a subsonic feat.

We'll see what the final number is when it comes out but this still belittles your point.

Awakened Maki was blitzed by Naoya from an alarming distance of at least dozens of meters. Which means if you take that speed at face value, Maki couldn't muster a block (was hit in the torso) despite Naoaya's starting distance. Yet, not even 1 day later (I think?) she is able to block a massively hypersonic stream of energy from the sky? What you don't realize is because of the internal consistency of the statements and their consequences, arguing for match 3 puts a high tier like awakened Maki in the peak human range of reactions and is inconsistent in many other ways but I will avoid addressing those aspects here. But yeah if Maki is only peak human for not reacting to 1029 m/s from dozens to hundreds of meters away, but can now supersonically react to 444000 m/s from hundreds to a few thousands meters away, that wouldn't really be consistent by your own framework.

No I understand that.
I'm just saying this thread isn't where to work on that.

I do in the instance in which it relates to the scaling issues given from my perspective that "issue" is based on misunderstanding. So I am trying to keep it limited to just that.

 

[SunDaGamer]

But the real proof of the differences in speed comes next. Note how Yuji, Maki and Sukuna are all in line with each other horizontally on the street.

Uraume pops out, flexes their CE and makes their presence known so it isn’t a sneak attack. Yuji, Maki and Sukuna all notice at the same time

Whole area gets AOE nuked

A still casual 15F Sukuna dodged the attack from the same distance Yuji and Maki were at, while both of them get tagged by the attack. And again, all 3 were alerted of their presence at the same time. So Sukuna is clearly faster than Yuji and Maki.

I'm still not convinced that Uraume would put Sukuna on Frost Calm's path

 

[KingTempest]

It's not, the mechanics of both have consequences about their reactions. If Maki inherently can sense that far and fast with her base senses, then there is no distinction between that and her reaction speed.

If it was pure "pre-cognition" than maybe you could argue she is formulating responses prior to the attacks, and thus without it, her reactions would be dimmer. But that isn't the case, Maki is quite literally built like that. Even in that case, we have people like SM Naruto and spiderman, who use legit pre-cognition and I'm sure we don't dock their reactions for it.

She's formulating responses prior to when she genuinely managed to perceive said attack.

If you can sense somebody about to shoot you without looking at them, then although we wouldn't mark it as "precognition", it gives the same effect.

Also yes, we do dock their reactions for it if they aimdodge.

Yes, so speed is the predominant factor given that Toji is a superhuman. Toji being "invisible" is only relevant if gojo is having a hard time keeping him within his focal frame. If Gojo was much faster in reactions or even on par, he'd be able to trace the trajectory, especially given he has what is essentially a byakugan. He couldn't, first and foremost because of the speed (which he explicitly notes twice) but also because Toji couldn't be sensed, which made Gojo have to rely solely on his base senses or "instinct". To try and frame that encounter as not being impacted by speed would be pretty invalid Imo.

You're focusing way too much on only speed.

Gojo and everyone else senses via cursed energy. Todo and Yuji were equal in speed and Todo was staring at Yuji yet he had trouble sensing him.

He and Maki did traverse an insanely large distance and we're not going to ignore the blatant narrative information indicating to us that Naoya was using his top speed again, especially when Naoya himself is completely helpless to tag her, not lamenting about not using his top speed or trying that. He is very clearly trying to kill her with his top speed again.

This is just heavy levels of speculation.
Nothing says he was using his top speed again at all.
The expulsion of wind isn't there, the great distance isn't there, it isn't even said that he gained the same speed.
All that's shwon is that he was accelerating. Nothing said he fully accelerated to that top speed.

I can't agree here, it's pretty open and shut tbh IMO.

I disagree. He is shown to accelerate a much larger distance the initial time than later.

I'd have to check the translations for accuracy, but this point is kinda moot given we literally see Maki outmanever his speed from less than 10m and before he himself (with at least match 3 reactions) notices. Mind you, she was mid air with no foothold.

What says he has Mach 3 reactions? He doesn't do anything at Mach 3 in close distances. Nothing says he deserves Mach 3 reactions.

I don't think you've proven the last assertion here.

I believe I have.

We'll see what the final number is when it comes out but this still belittles your point.

Awakened Maki was blitzed by Naoya from an alarming distance of at least dozens of meters. Which means if you take that speed at face value, Maki couldn't muster a block (was hit in the torso) despite Naoaya's starting distance. Yet, not even 1 day later (I think?) she is able to block a massively hypersonic stream of energy from the sky? What you don't realize is because of the internal consistency of the statements and their consequences, arguing for match 3 puts a high tier like awakened Maki in the peak human range of reactions and is inconsistent in many other ways but I will avoid addressing those aspects here. But yeah if Maki is only peak human for not reacting to 1029 m/s from dozens to hundreds of meters away, but can now supersonically react to 444000 m/s from hundreds to a few thousands meters away, that wouldn't really be consistent by your own framework.

I hope you know that reacting to 440,000 m/s from 2 km away is 0.00454 seconds, a tiny bit over baseline Subsonic+ reactions. That'd the same as reacting to Mach 0.64 a meter away.

And this is the same Maki who can smell light and lick sounds. She'd be warned of lightning coming.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Yes, so speed is the predominant factor given that Toji is a superhuman. Toji being "invisible" is only relevant if gojo is having a hard time keeping him within his focal frame. If Gojo was much faster in reactions or even on par, he'd be able to trace the trajectory, especially given he has what is essentially a byakugan. He couldn't, first and foremost because of the speed (which he explicitly notes twice) but also because Toji couldn't be sensed, which made Gojo have to rely solely on his base senses or "instinct". To try and frame that encounter as not being impacted by speed would be pretty invalid Imo.

Toji's plan was to wear down Gojo so his senses would've been dulled at that point from constantly using his technique for the past 2 days anyway while Gojo after awakening RCT would've used it to rejuvunate himself, Gojo constantly using RCT to keep his brain fresh is why using his technique constantly doesn't wear him down like that anymore afterall.

If it was pure "pre-cognition" than maybe you could argue she is formulating responses prior to the attacks, and thus without it, her reactions would be dimmer. But that isn't the case, Maki is quite literally built like that. Even in that case, we have people like SM Naruto and spiderman, who use legit pre-cognition and I'm sure we don't dock their reactions for it.

Precog is just semantics, it's listed as Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception and Analytical Prediction on her profile. Ik we've got the Analytical Predictors in Black Clover at Relativistic+ not just because they react to light and whatnot, but because they have calcs and scaling that place them at that level.

He and Maki did traverse an insanely large distance and we're not going to ignore the blatant narrative information indicating to us that Naoya was using his top speed again, especially when Naoya himself is completely helpless to tag her, not lamenting about not using his top speed or trying that. He is very clearly trying to kill her with his top speed again.

Maki noticeably lags behind the distance Naoya is covering, Naoya isn't moving at Mach 3 when Maki tags him because he has to build up speed to reach it and he had just started to move again after being stationary, he wasn't even trying to hit Maki when moving at that point. I don't think calcing this would yield Supersonic+ results either

 

[Maitreya12]

To go over a lot of these points.

Maki matches intial speed which Sukuna was fighting Yuji

• Maki Suggested to increasing her speed and suggested to Yuji to increase his speed

• Sukuna increased his speed much more than previously and way head of them. They needed to extend the reach for Sukunas speed and hit him with a surprise attack which is clearly shown by throwing Yuji at him. Before that Maki and Yuji couldn't even catch his speed.

Yeah this right here, this hurts the notion that Sukuna’s body and physical stats were being nerfed by Megumi. Because if they were “fluctuating” like is said, Sukuna wouldn’t be able to so casually increase his speed to be able to match them. He’d be “fluctuating” and wouldn’t just be able to control his body’s output on command like he’s doing here. So the fact that he is doing that, shows that his body’s physical stats aren’t being impacted by Megumi since he shouldn’t be able to control and increase what level of output his body’s going at on command.

This image clearly shows Maki matching Sukuna in speed before she throws Yuji at him, so I don’t know what you mean by “they couldn’t catch him” when Maki is very clearly keeping up with him right here.

• Sukuna also increased his speed in next panel casually keeping up with both of them with just single hand where we seen him getting smoked by using double hands against Maki in first panel which shows his speed here increased Depending on Maki and Yuji. Dude also increased the speed when using Cleave we can see Maki and Yuji hand being in distance Before reaching Sukuna. Where we see previously he was using one hand to keep them at bay.

• Oh later that Both Maki and Yuji couldn't even tag or land a single hit on Sukuna. He also makes a big distance between two of them Despite we see in the same scans where Sukuna and maki are close and Sukuna was punching Maki.

What are all those impact shots in the third panel of not “tagging and keeping up with” Sukuna? They’re clearly trading blows with him which they would need to be relative in speed to even be able to accomplish.

• Already mentioned this Only Sukuna realised Uraume Blizting to the scene where Maki and Yuji were late to realise that and Uraume was clearly Emitting CE.

What do you mean here? They all clearly realize Uruame’s presence at the same time, the only difference was that Uruame was positioned much closer to Yuji and Maki compared to Sukuna and clearly aimed for them, since it’s established she can intentionally control her ice powers to target specific people.

• Next we have AOE attack which Froze both tracks. Image doesn't show any indication of only Maki and Yuji track being Frozen. That's completely headcanon.

Headcanon, what? Uruame didn’t target Sukuna, she only targeted Yuji and Maki and primarily focused on Maki at that. Hell it doesn’t even look like Sukuna moves from the spot he was standing on prior.

• Despite this if anyone wants to say Sukuna was seriously trying against Maki where he was clearly having higher speed advantage against both of them when he got serious at last moment. Additionally only thing which impressed Sukuna was Maki durability.

This is not true, Sukuna acknowledged Maki’s strength the moment she entered the battle, taking note of how easily she handled Nue and then complimented her on her fighting and how well she was able to tank his hits. Hits by the way, that Sukuna should have no problem of landing if he was blitz level higher than Maki in speed by the way, but no, the fact that he had to first use his CT on the ground just so he could land a punch on Maki shows that she’s able to keep up with him and match him in speed, which is exactly what we see in the very next panel where they’re all trading blows with one another.

There comes someone might say he praised maki. But ignores he praises anyone he fights except Yuji (his seal )and Yorozu ( annoying). He praised Jogo Despite mocking him throughout the fight. He praised Ryu Despite Blizting and one shoting him. So please don't bring the arguments like Sukuna praised Maki.

No, Sukuna only praises the strong. The people that can scale to him. He flat out admits Jogo is capable of hurting him and this was when he was at 15F too, hell bringing up Ryu aids to my point because if Maki DIDN’T scale in speed to Sukuna….then why didn’t she end up like Ryu? Why is Sukuna so easily able to blitz someone like Ryu but is trading blow after blow against Maki in hand to hand combat?

The only way for something like this to occur in the first place instead of something like this:

Would only be if Maki scales in speed to Sukuna since otherwise she would end up getting casually blitzed like Ryu did, even if Sukuna didn’t have the use of his CT.

 

[KingTempest]

Toji's plan was to wear down Gojo so his senses would've been dulled at that point from constantly using his technique for the past 2 days anyway while Gojo after awakening RCT would've used it to rejuvunate himself, Gojo constantly using RCT to keep his brain fresh is why using his technique constantly doesn't wear him down like that anymore afterall.

Exactly.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_07.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_08.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_15.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_17.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_18.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_20.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_21.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_22.jpg
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_73_01.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_73_03.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_73_04.jpghttps://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_75_04.jpg

Precog is just semantics, it's listed as Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception and Analytical Prediction on her profile. Ik we've got the Analytical Predictors in Black Clover at Relativistic+ not just because they react to light and whatnot, but because they have calcs and scaling that place them at that level.

Thank you.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Yeah this right here, this hurts the notion that Sukuna’s body and physical stats were being nerfed by Megumi. Because if they were “fluctuating” like is said, Sukuna wouldn’t be able to so casually increase his speed to be able to match them. He’d be “fluctuating” and wouldn’t just be able to control his body’s output on command like he’s doing here. So the fact that he is doing that, shows that his body’s physical stats aren’t being impacted by Megumi since he shouldn’t be able to control and increase what level of output his body’s going at on command.

I don't think we scale speed linearly with CE output like we would naturally do with AP anyway, if we go with the school of thought that Sukuna's physical movement was affected then the only translation to remotely support that can be interpreted as Sukuna's physical movement being affected but not as bad as his CE output so we still end up with that disparity

 

[KingTempest]

This is what Viz says

 

[SunDaGamer]

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/kaisentcb_71_07.jpg

Kid Gojo sensing Toji while a worn out Teen Gojo couldn't

 

[JnSteHar002]

Sorry if I end up dragging any discussions but I found this timeline for JJK. Not sure how accurate this is but it's pretty detailed if anyone wants to use it.
JJK Timeline

Scaling Maki to Sukuna is just wrong.

Results would be if this if Maki scales to Sukuna which is utterly bullshit.

15F Sukuna ~ Gojo > Uraume > Maki ~ 15F Sukuna

I can see it working; admittedly not a 100% but I can still see it (like roughly 70%). 15F Sukuna took Megumi's body and had that fight w/Yuji and Maki on November 16th and Gojo doesn't get unsealed and have his "encounter" w/15F Megukuna until the 19th. Given everything that happens in b/w, this is a different Sukuna having that clash w/Gojo. I think it'd be like:

15F Sukuna (Megumi completely suppressed, possibly CE boost) ~ Gojo (just got released from PR) > Uraume > Maki ~ 15F Sukuna (CT hindered, possibly more)

 

[KingTempest]

Gojo probably just blitzed Uraume with his limitless "teleportation" instead of raw speed

 

[Arkenis]

Uraume > Maki

This makes no sense. Maki and Uraume didn't engage in any h2h, they didn't fight. Uraume launched a damn max output ct on a slightly off guard Maki, why tf would Uraume scale above?

 

[KingTempest]

Wait a damn minute

Ain't Hakari not notice a subsonic timeframe difference between Gojo and Sukuna's domains?

 

[SunDaGamer]

Wait a damn minute

Ain't Hakari not notice a subsonic timeframe difference between Gojo and Sukuna's domains?

Yeah

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah

This blatantly contradicts the feat in the OP timeframe wise

 

[Testarossa002]

This keeps getting better (or worse depending on where you stand)

 

[JnSteHar002]

This makes no sense. Maki and Uraume didn't engage in any h2h, they didn't fight. Uraume launched a damn max output ct on a slightly off guard Maki, why tf would Uraume scale above?

1) Getting some unnecessary hostility; you're at like 6 or 7 when you need to be at most 2
2) Was focused on the Sukuna part and overlooked Uraume & Maki. That's my bad and I'll think that over. Thanks for the observation