- 21,468
- 30,790
How did you tackle the 1 point that (with all due respect) nobody cares about
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade
- Thread starter EldemadeDityjon
- Start date
- Status
How did you tackle the 1 point that (with all due respect) nobody cares about
- 5,816
- 3,737
Ill accept the warning as is, but what exactly do I need to "pull it back on"? I've yet to show any aggression, and I made a claim about Tempest based on what I had seen them claim before. Is it only acceptable to make said claims if I have screenshots of it? Or are you referring to something else. I would like it to be clear so I can avoid any further warnings.
- 21,468
- 30,790
Ignore it
Focus on the thread from this message on
Focus on the thread from this message on
- 3,780
- 4,080
I vote for this option by the way.
This thread has been enough for right now, we can make a separate thread regarding Maki scaling to Sukuna or not. This thread can be put on hold for the time being.
I’ll make the thread regarding Maki’s scaling.
.But not today. That’s enough JJK debate for today me thinks.
- 5,816
- 3,737
That's fair. I personally haven't seen a lot of these "Mach speed" caps in the verse as I have admittedly not caught up. I am currently only in the culling game arc, and think that being beyond SOS is actually drastically more consistent. I do thank you for approaching me more calmly though. I didn't even intend to strike a nerve or anything like that. Not the type to do an underhanded jab like that. I just genuinely believed they were biased because of previous statements I peeped.
- 4,432
- 4,481
This post can and will be read as inflammatory and rude. That's what got you the warning. The type of guy comment and accusing Tempest to be misguided and bias are the keys on this one.
- 4,432
- 4,481
What I will not stand by is creating another thread right now. Because if we have to make another thread to address this thing, then it shouldn't have been brought up in the first place here. Because all it did was kill the thread without actually rejecting itI vote for this option by the way.
This thread has been enough for right now, we can make a separate thread regarding Maki scaling to Sukuna or not. This thread can be put on hold for the time being.
I’ll make the thread regarding Maki’s scaling.Don’t worry I got this
But not today. That’s enough JJK debate for today me thinks.
- 18,549
- 18,599
Second this. I work with a verse that has Infinite speed sunlight. And another with FTL "speed of sound". The examples seem extreme but the main point still stands. We'd have better grounds for it if there was outright confirmation of it being comparable to cloud-to-ground lightning or something similar.
- 5,816
- 3,737
Ignore what? That's what I'm asking for clarification on. I feel I just got a warning for doing absolutely nothing wrong, and would like to avoid any further problems. I was hoping Due would confirm what it is that I need to tone it down on.
- 3,780
- 4,080
- 5,816
- 3,737
Upon a second reading, yeah, I can see it. Apologies to Tempest if it came off as rude. I was being blunt since I tend to do so over other sites. Though, I think the "irrelevant point" part seemed more rude than what you pointed out. I was actually legitimately under the impression they hated the verse. If need be, I can actually locate and send screenshots here of them stating such things if need be. At the very least as proof that I didn't mean for it to come off as an accusation with no basis.
- 21,468
- 30,790
Boom
- 31,372
- 34,118
Can someone give me a TLDR summary of the new arguments and a memory reminder of the old ones?
- 3,780
- 4,080
The argument is centered around the scaling chain as a whole. Namely around Maki who causes a huge scaling issue to this supposed MHS value since she has a hard cap of a Mach 3 speed statement.
The argument for is that Maki doesn’t really scale to any of the characters that would scale to the lightning time speed feat and therefore doesn’t cause an issue in the scaling chain.
The argument against is that because Maki has shown clear examples of contending with characters that would scale to and above the lightning speed feat, such as 15 finger Sukuna, she should also scale to this MHS value which causes a huge issue narratively as mentioned prior.
So the argument’s is now on whether or not Maki actually scales to 15F Sukuna or not.
- 4,432
- 4,481
So for:
Arguments are that Hakari and the likes of the God Tiers and certain high tiers should scale to the calc because Hakari performed it, Kashimo fought Hakari, Gojo as one of the god tiers is above everyone else in physicals, 15f Sukuna could intercept Gojo, Yuki should be above Hakari as a special grade who relies only on her physicals where Hakari is Grade 1 Sorcerer (rated below her in terms of in-universe scaling), and Kenjaku could fight with Yuki.
The lightning of the calc involved shows off all the traits of electricity and functions as a lightning strike would.
Against:
The likes of Maki (a character not in the OP) struggling against a character with Mach 3 (who she later stopped struggling against but is believed by the opposition she didn't get any faster) and then fighting a 15F Sukuna operating at 10% and statements about a character by the name of Naobito (who was believed to be the second fastest sorcerer just below Gojo) who is currently believed to cap out around the speed of sound should stop the likes of Hakari from being scaled to this feat.
Arguments are that Hakari and the likes of the God Tiers and certain high tiers should scale to the calc because Hakari performed it, Kashimo fought Hakari, Gojo as one of the god tiers is above everyone else in physicals, 15f Sukuna could intercept Gojo, Yuki should be above Hakari as a special grade who relies only on her physicals where Hakari is Grade 1 Sorcerer (rated below her in terms of in-universe scaling), and Kenjaku could fight with Yuki.
The lightning of the calc involved shows off all the traits of electricity and functions as a lightning strike would.
Against:
The likes of Maki (a character not in the OP) struggling against a character with Mach 3 (who she later stopped struggling against but is believed by the opposition she didn't get any faster) and then fighting a 15F Sukuna operating at 10% and statements about a character by the name of Naobito (who was believed to be the second fastest sorcerer just below Gojo) who is currently believed to cap out around the speed of sound should stop the likes of Hakari from being scaled to this feat.
- 1,607
- 1,118
You're using that as proof for the speed of sound in JJK being FTL and therefore providing more evidence for Sukuna having FTL reactions when we've got Gojo spouting out a whole mantra while Sukuna (who is comparable to him) can't do anything pretty standard talking is a free action.
Don't even get me started on Sukuna using Piercing Blood
"In that Compressed moment of time, he chanted the incantation for Blue"
Gojo can waffle faster than Piercing Blood
- 21,468
- 30,790
Lemme fix this up
The likes of Maki (a character who was unintentionally yet conveniently left out of the OP, which still scales to the people in the OP) struggling against a character at Mach 3 (who she stopped struggling with after gaining precognition while it's being argued that she kept the same physical stats), and then fighting a 15F Sukuna evenly (a character in the OP who was stated to keep the same movement even when energy was restricted, was never stated to be hindered speed wise, and is only restricted in energy output), and even if it is true that he was at 10%, it would still put Maki (the character with the Mach 3 issue) well over Mach 90, which is far higher than her Mach 3 issue.
Then statements about a character by the name of Naobito (who is stated to be called the second fastest sorcerer) who is currently accepted to have a cap of a value around Mach 1 (Via an accepted thread of the verse having a lot of Mach 1 issues) and is shown to be faster than other characters.
And these arguments would stop Hakari (the character in the OP with the Mach 900 feat) from being scaled to that value.
- 32,835
- 38,104
This weirdly feels like a case of not letting a character scale just because you don't like 'em.
If a character gets a new feat that trumps the previous cap, and there are feats of the majority of the cast scaling, you don't get to ignore that discrepancy just because of personal bias.
This is literally the same as trying to keep Kratos from scaling to Thor because "he killed him" despite Kratos actually outright besting and mollywhopping the latter in the final fight and then tanking that exact same blow that killed him prior (Let's just ignore the context of the first fight here for a second and run with this).
If a character gets a new feat that trumps the previous cap, and there are feats of the majority of the cast scaling, you don't get to ignore that discrepancy just because of personal bias.
This is literally the same as trying to keep Kratos from scaling to Thor because "he killed him" despite Kratos actually outright besting and mollywhopping the latter in the final fight and then tanking that exact same blow that killed him prior (Let's just ignore the context of the first fight here for a second and run with this).
- 1,607
- 1,118
"Piercing Blood is Mach 1 speed"
Where is this stated? Could you provide the evidence please.
- 4,432
- 4,481
@KingTempest
The accepted end for the feat is Mach 547 firstly, the Op says that. Secondly, you're just coming off as an ass right now, you can respond to my post without all the bolding, saying you're correcting it, and blurring out most of your own. Please, just respond instead of making a whole show of it
The accepted end for the feat is Mach 547 firstly, the Op says that. Secondly, you're just coming off as an ass right now, you can respond to my post without all the bolding, saying you're correcting it, and blurring out most of your own. Please, just respond instead of making a whole show of it
- 21,468
- 30,790
All this means is that instead of it being well over Mach 90 from the 10%, it's well over Mach 50.
I bold all the time. Most of the time I actually use caps. For a lot you said "assumed to be" or "believed to be" when they were "accepted to be". Only reason why I blurred it out is so people could read the pain points all at once
- 3,780
- 4,080
Ok.
She scales.
Maki Zenin scales to 15F Sukuna. Pay more respect to my girl Maki please,killed her whole ass clan only to be disrespected by the fanbase smh.
I mean even Sukuna thinks so:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_womb7_215_005.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_womb7_215_016.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_womb7_215_013.png
Look at him! Look at him gassing her up. Who does he do this to if not the strong???
She scales.
Maki Zenin scales to 15F Sukuna. Pay more respect to my girl Maki please,
I mean even Sukuna thinks so:
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_womb7_215_005.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_womb7_215_016.png
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_womb7_215_013.png
Look at him! Look at him gassing her up. Who does he do this to if not the strong???
- 32,835
- 38,104
So why is this not being added to the OP and the people being told about this in a comment right afterwards, that'd she'd scale? That just comes off as incredibly disingenuous and shady as f-ck to me.
- 21,468
- 30,790
It's said Megumi has minimal influence over Megukuna's flesh. His movement was not hindered, so Sukuna was pretty much almost at full capacity.
Maki fought that same Sukuna hand in hand.
Maki scales. Nothing says she doesn't. She's relative to Sukuna.
Maki fought that same Sukuna hand in hand.
Maki scales. Nothing says she doesn't. She's relative to Sukuna.
- 1,607
- 1,118
idk. that's a good question
(maybe because I've discussed about this certain topic multiple times that it just ticked in me
)
- 4,432
- 4,481
Because Maki was once a contentious topic in terms of whether or not she scaled to 15F sukuna. This has been an argument with supporters for a while, so it was thought best to leave her off of it until there was an agreement. Anyone in the discussion threads when this was happening saw this
That's also why I wanted to tackle her speed scaling later because it was testy topic. But since it was forced here, I'm currently going through the trouble of gathering everything together so it can be discucssed why her struggling with Naoya shouldn't hold her and the rest of the verses scaling back in the first place.
- 5,816
- 3,737
Gonna drop it after this. Just wanna confirm my innocence. It's not as bad as I remember, but here are the instances I could find from a cursory glance that lead me to believe they hated the verse/had a bias against it. Apologies for derailing.
- 3,780
- 4,080
Because they debate over whether Sukuna’s “cursed energy output” was nerfed or just his “output for his cursed technique” was nerfed.
The thing is though, it’s plainly stated that it’s his “output for his cursed technique” and not his overall stats, (hence why he was complimenting Maki’s performance like I was showing earlier.)
- 3,780
- 4,080
??????
Bro what, did you go back and search through his comments to see how many times he said he hated this verse?
…..Shit I’d hate this verse too if this how the supporters be acting goddamn
- 5,816
- 3,737
Ye, I did say in my last comment that you liked that I'd be willing to send the evidence for why I believed they were against the verse. I didn't want people believing I said it because "He didn't agree with me, thus he must be biased". It was for clarification sake... (Though yeah, I don't think it was as bad as I remember given the context of the second convo)??????
Bro what, did you go back and search through his comments to see how many times he said he hated this verse?
…..Shit I’d hate this verse too if this how the supporting be acting goddamn
- 21,468
- 30,790
The verse = the scalers, not the series, in my opinion
If I go in depth about what I meant in its entirety, I'll get banned
So let's get back on track
If I go in depth about what I meant in its entirety, I'll get banned
So let's get back on track
- 2,338
- 1,833
Ok, I am back. Not gonna ask for a summary from others and you seem to be leading the opposition. Can you give me a succinct breakdown of your points relevant to this thread? I ask so that I don't bring up irrelevant stuff like earlier, I would appreciate a very streamlined summary of your argument(s) if you could.
- 21,468
- 30,790
- 129
- 70
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but additionally Hakari's abilities have been directly compared to Maki's by Kenjaku, so the fact that 15F Sukuna (nerfed or not) was not blitzing Maki and she was putting up what Sukuna considered an impressive fight really makes Mach 900 (or even 90) Sukuna impossible since both Hakari and Maki are somewhat relative to Naobito/Curse-Naoya respectively who are nowhere near even Mach 90.
Ngl i didn't see it at first, but i am starting to agree more and more with this take. This Mach 900 idea just doesn't make any sense.
Ngl i didn't see it at first, but i am starting to agree more and more with this take. This Mach 900 idea just doesn't make any sense.
- 2,338
- 1,833
Ok, thank you for this. Yeah I was originally gonna get into a bunch of stuff, but as you pointed out earlier I think that'd be better addressed for another thread. I think we can tackle this point relatively easy.
Maki did not simply gain "precognition". Her entire awareness was shifted to the point where she feels air molecules meters away from her as if they were apart of her sensory system. This has to do with the Buddhist themes of JJK and the gains that come with enlightenment. For instance, Gojo went from struggling to keep up with Toji's speed pre-enlightenment, to being able to casually dodge toji's advances, so it's much more than "precognition". This was gone over with her whole synesthesia thing (seeing smells, hearing colors, etc) and why she went from not being able to muster a block against Noaya despite him charging from dozens of meters away, to casually dodging him mid air last second after her awakening. Mind you, Naoya must be > Mach 3 to coordinate his movements and he doesn't even realize he isn't hitting Maki while she's moved several feet with no foothold.
I feel something that is a little bit more blatant would be Maki's feat added to the volume extras. When Sukuna initially took over Megumi, Maki and Takaba rushed to ambush Sukuna and help him out. Sukuna responded by summing a skyscraper level Nue and summoning cloud to ground lightning to kill them both. Maki was able to defend using the exact some pose she used to brace for Naoya meaning she physically reacts, and this is something that sukuna later gives her credit for.
To ignore lightning and later light scaling would be to ignore Kashimo as a whole and Sukuna's advancements of 10S which blatantly scale above supersonic and back up Hakari barely reacting to lightning.
Last edited:
- Status
