Jujutsu Kaisen revision - Part 1: Speed

[PowerToScale]

The feat doesn't make much sense at all, the bullet was about to hit her, but when she catches it, the bullet is suddenly a meter away from her, how can we calculate something like this if we don't know how far the bullet moved compared to her arm?

This inconsistency of 1m distance is only limited to the anime, not really asking this version to be calculated. Manga the main source the bullet is swiped from in front to the side. Were asking the manga to be calculated. As seen in the panels, Maki reacts and catches the bullet and swipes it to the side, as her hand and body have shifted to the side.

 

[Outcast]

This inconsistency of 1m distance is only limited to the anime, not really asking this version to be calculated. Manga the main source the bullet is swiped from in front to the side. Were asking the manga to be calculated. As seen in the panels, Maki reacts and catches the bullet and swipes it to the side, as her hand and body have shifted to the side.

I agree with this, it definitely makes sense. Theres no way Gege drew Maki like this if it wasnt the case, that would be unusual
It also seems as if the movements were synchronized, because the next panel shows the smoke from the bullet, and it just looks like the movements were done together

 

[PrinceofPein]

Not really given that she cut the bullet in half mid flight, and the second instance that bullet is already mid flight as well as Maki blitzes several meters forward to dodge it and parry several successive shots.

The panel does not say much, like it is a feat that is worse than the previous one

 

[PrinceofPein]

This inconsistency of 1m distance is only limited to the anime, not really asking this version to be calculated. Manga the main source the bullet is swiped from in front to the side. Were asking the manga to be calculated. As seen in the panels, Maki reacts and catches the bullet and swipes it to the side, as her hand and body have shifted to the side.

The new thing is that if a manga feat is not clear then anime can be used, the manga panels are not clear and anime shows something more, so we can't ignore anime context. I can give you a list.on why the manga cannot be used alone

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

If she moved back and to the side before catching the bullet, she no longer needs to catch the bullet and the timeframe she has to do so is multiplied many times.

 

[PowerToScale]

The new thing is that if a manga feat is not clear then anime can be used, the manga panels are not clear and anime shows something more, so we can't ignore anime context. I can give you a list.on why the manga cannot be used alone

Well yes, but the feat is very much clear. Bullet is in front of Maki -> Hand comes in and swipes bullet -> Maki hand off to the side with her body with bullet in hand.

Mai stating she caught the bullet

Maki reacting and swiping the bullet of the way, seems pretty clear to me.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well yes, but the feat is very much clear. Bullet is in front of Maki -> Hand comes in and swipes bullet -> Maki hand off to the side with her body with bullet in hand.

Mai stating she caught the bullet

Maki reacting and swiping the bullet of the way, seems pretty clear to me.

1. Where was the hand at rest before the catch?
2. Was she already moving her hand as the bullet was travelling towards her?
3. Did she move her head backwards?
And many more questions that you have no answer to with manga panels alone the feat should be scratched

 

[PowerToScale]

If she moved back and to the side before catching the bullet, she no longer needs to catch the bullet and the timeframe she has to do so is multiplied many times.

Its body momentum, literally the movement of swiping of the bullet of the way the moves along with it. Even doing a simple stretch along with your hand across your body, the rest of the body moves too. Basic human movement.

 

[PowerToScale]

1. Where was the hand at rest before the catch?

To her side of her body. The third panel after the gun going off.

2. Was she already moving her hand as the bullet was travelling towards her?

No, we see that the hand movement begins after the bullet nearly hits her face.

3. Did she move her head backwards?
And many more questions that you have no answer to with manga panels alone the feat should be scratched

She doesn't really move her head backwards, its moved along to the side with the body's momentum when she caught the bullet

Answers to some the question you thought there was no answer to

 

[PrinceofPein]

To her side of her body. The third panel after the gun going off.

Uhhhm more prove that her hand is not at rest, that was the question, so you just proved her hand was not at rest and her hand was already moving when the bullet was fired as shown by the speed lines in that panel

No, we see that the hand movement begins after the bullet nearly hits her face.

No we see nothing, we just see her hand beside the bullet and her head no more showing that she indeed moved her head

She doesn't really move her head backwards, its moved along to the side with the body's momentum when she caught the bullet

She did tho, as shown a bit in the manga where the bullet was caught and in the anime.again

Answers to some the question you thought there was no answer to

No you did not answer any one you only proved the currently calc is grossly wrong

 

[Antvasima]

She reflexively moved her head and caught the bullet.

We have the distance the bullet reached prior to her making a move. Calculating the distance moved should be easy since we have her height and can use arc for her motion. So just calculating how fast she had to move her hand from waist level to face level would give you the number for the feat.

We also have her cutting a bullet in half from this distance.

And dodging one from this feat.

And utilizing a proper speed for the bullet with a bare bones minimum 136m/s based on Co2 revolver bullet speed, or the more accurate (IMO) speed of rubber slugs meant to be fired as projectiles reaching 220m/s, as cited above.

@Therefir

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Therefir

Sorry but what he said has some things that are wrong, this posts should help

1. Where was the hand at rest before the catch?
2. Was she already moving her hand as the bullet was travelling towards her?
3. Did she move her head backwards?
And many more questions that you have no answer to with manga panels alone the feat should be scratched

To her side of her body. The third panel after the gun going off.



No, we see that the hand movement begins after the bullet nearly hits her face.



She doesn't really move her head backwards, its moved along to the side with the body's momentum when she caught the bullet

Answers to some the question you thought there was no answer to

Uhhhm more prove that her hand is not at rest, that was the question, so you just proved her hand was not at rest and her hand was already moving when the bullet was fired as shown by the speed lines in that panel

No we see nothing, we just see her hand beside the bullet and her head no more showing that she indeed moved her head

She did tho, as shown a bit in the manga where the bullet was caught and in the anime.again

No you did not answer any one you only proved the currently calc is grossly wrong

Basically those posts and scans should be considered

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

So Maki’s hand began to move the moment the bullet was fired. It just seems she barely got her hand there in time to catch it which sounds like a subsonic feat.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

@Antvasima please don’t listen to painto12 he is blatantly making up a false narrative and trying to misconstrue the feat.
All of these things can be argued once the calc has been made, so this is all derailing at this point, and quite obviously a blatant attempt at trying to sabotage the verses scaling.

I suggest closing the thread at this point. I will work on finding someone to calc the feat.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Dude he kinda posted really good proof. We see Maki’s hand begin to move the moment the bullet is shot and she barely catches it. How is that not good enough?

If he’s making up some false narrative you should be able to debunk it.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Dude he kinda posted really good proof. We see Maki’s hand begin to move the moment the bullet is shot and she barely catches it. How is that not good enough?

That is not “proof”. Maki was literally running at her sister and that quite Obviously what the action lines represent. I don’t know about you but hands tend to be waist to torso aligned when running, especially with a sword.

we quite literally already saw Maki dodge the bullet point blank earlier in the fight in which she moved several meters before the bullet could hit her mid flight.

This is the same thing except she was caught off guard due to not knowing her sisters technique.

literally nothing in the scene suggests that she began moving her hand when the bullet fired. There’s literally an exclamation point above her head when we see her after the bullet is fired, next panel is it getting close to her face, final is her catching it. This feat is laughably uncontroversial which is why these “rebuttals” are clearly disingenuous.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

That is not “proof”. Maki was literally running at her sister and that quite Obviously what the action lines represent. I don’t know about you but hands tend to be waist to torso aligned when running, especially with a sword.

we quite literally already saw Maki dodge the bullet point blank earlier in the fight in which she moved several meters before the bullet could hit her mid flight.

This is the same thing except she was caught off guard due to not knowing her sisters technique.

literally nothing in the scene suggests that she began moving her hand when the bullet fired. There’s literally an exclamation point above her head when we see her after the bullet is fired, next panel is it getting close to her face, final is her catching it. This feat is laughably uncontroversial which is why these “rebuttals” are clearly disingenuous.

Maki’s hands don’t show any motion when she’s charging Mai previously. Her hand are stationary either because they’re on her blade or are just there. It isn’t uncommon for peephole carrying blades to not move their hands while they run just take Yuta chasing down Yuji as an example.

Considering Maki is staring down the gun and is faster than Mai you could chuck it up to aim dodging further more it isn’t point blank at any point she has a few feet of distance at all times when she dodges.

Considering we see her recognise the shot and for the first time her hand blurs when she’s not swinging her blade all on the same page the bullet is fired I’d say that’s when she began her motion.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Maki’s hands don’t show any motion when she’s charging Mai previously. Her hand are stationary either because they’re on her blade or are just there. It isn’t uncommon for peephole carrying blades to not move their hands while they run just take Yuta chasing down Yuji as an example.

Considering Maki is staring down the gun and is faster than Mai you could chuck it up to aim dodging further more it isn’t point blank at any point she has a few feet of distance at all times when she dodges.

Considering we see her recognise the shot and for the first time her hand blurs when she’s not swinging her blade all on the same page the bullet is fired I’d say that’s when she began her motion.

I’m at work so can’t respond in full but no, none of that is evident in the slightest. Have you read the actual chapter?
Also that isn’t how aim dodging works…aim dodging is moving out of LOS BEFORE and object is fired using trajectory Mai VERY clearly moves her hand from her side to in front of her face before bullet can move several inches.

there is literally no way this is an aim dodge feat and all of the factors needed to calc minimum reaction speed are present.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I’m at work so can’t respond in full but no, none of that is evident in the slightest. Have you read the actual chapter?
Also that isn’t how aim dodging works…aim dodging is moving out of LOS BEFORE and object is fired using trajectory Mai VERY clearly moves her hand from her side to in front of her face before bullet can move several inches.

there is literally no way this is an aim dodge feat and all of the factors needed to calc minimum reaction speed are present.

You’re asking me if I’ve read the chapter then confusing Maki with Mai really?

Maki began her movement when the gun fired. We see her acknowledge it when the gun shoots with the exclamation point and her hand is blurred. We’ve also seen Maki run with her arms stationary.

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Antvasima please don’t listen to painto12 he is blatantly making up a false narrative and trying to misconstrue the feat.
All of these things can be argued once the calc has been made, so this is all derailing at this point, and quite obviously a blatant attempt at trying to sabotage the verses scaling.

I suggest closing the thread at this point. I will work on finding someone to calc the feat.

Lmao

Why would the thread be closed? Like I already said the feat should be axxed and go with the author's narrative since I am making mine up.
Either way maki could not tag someone who is just above subsonic, this feat was to be a supporting feat if it can be calced to be around that area not above it.

 

[PowerToScale]

Dude he kinda posted really good proof. We see Maki’s hand begin to move the moment the bullet is shot and she barely catches it. How is that not good enough?

If he’s making up some false narrative you should be able to debunk it.

he hasn't post anything. He has stated this and that without as if his interpretation is the correct one without proper backing. Misleading information.

 

[PowerToScale]

Uhhhm more prove that her hand is not at rest, that was the question, so you just proved her hand was not at rest and her hand was already moving when the bullet was fired as shown by the speed lines in that panel

No we see nothing, we just see her hand beside the bullet and her head no more showing that she indeed moved her head

Its not really, you saying it doesn't make it so. You also realize that context behind the speed lines is that she is running at Mai prior right? Maybe my fault for not providing that context but none the less, she was in motion prior to bullet being shot, running at Mai.

No, we see motion, we literally Maki running to Mai with her hand to her side, bullet is shot, see that after the bullet reaches Maki's face, then Maki hand comes in and catches the bullet. We literally see two drawings with speeds lines of the hands, one of the hand coming in, and one catching, then her body leaning along with the motion and way her hand moved. That is motion. Yes. She did more her head, I never said she didn't???

I sorry if you don't understand movement and body motion, but what you have been saying is false.

She did tho, as shown a bit in the manga where the bullet was caught and in the anime.again

Anime =/= manga. The events in the manga and anime are different, the only thing the same is the hand coming from the side after the bullet was shot. Anime is her catching the bullet in front of her face with her head back, manga is it swiping it out of the way, there is no indication of it being moved. Even if she did its not even noticeable, which there isn't.

Stop pushing forth misinformation.

No you did not answer any one you only proved the currently calc is grossly wrong

I guess I did.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I am tired of arguing this feat, we should.just calculate what the author provided and go with it and hope they have better feats in the future
If it will make anyone feel better speed in this wiki is useless since speed is always equalized

 

[PowerToScale]

@Therefir here is the current arguments, however I recommend reading the chapter before going into it. Understanding the context.

Here is the chapter

Anime version: This is only her for showing that both manga and anime interpret Maki moving after the bullet reaches her, not as soon as fired. To solidify a point.

First arguments:
Me:

This inconsistency of 1m distance is only limited to the anime, not really asking this version to be calculated. Manga the main source the bullet is swiped from in front to the side. Were asking the manga to be calculated. As seen in the panels, Maki reacts and catches the bullet and swipes it to the side, as her hand and body have shifted to the side.

Pain:

The new thing is that if a manga feat is not clear then anime can be used, the manga panels are not clear and anime shows something more, so we can't ignore anime context. I can give you a list.on why the manga cannot be used alone

Second arguments:
Me:

Well yes, but the feat is very much clear. Bullet is in front of Maki -> Hand comes in and swipes bullet -> Maki hand off to the side with her body with bullet in hand.

Mai stating she caught the bullet

Maki reacting and swiping the bullet of the way, seems pretty clear to me.

Pain:

1. Where was the hand at rest before the catch?
2. Was she already moving her hand as the bullet was travelling towards her?
3. Did she move her head backwards?
And many more questions that you have no answer to with manga panels alone the feat should be scratched

Third arguments:
Me:

To her side of her body. The third panel after the gun going off.



No, we see that the hand movement begins after the bullet nearly hits her face.



She doesn't really move her head backwards, its moved along to the side with the body's momentum when she caught the bullet

Answers to some the question you thought there was no answer to

Pain:

Uhhhm more prove that her hand is not at rest, that was the question, so you just proved her hand was not at rest and her hand was already moving when the bullet was fired as shown by the speed lines in that panel

No we see nothing, we just see her hand beside the bullet and her head no more showing that she indeed moved her head

She did tho, as shown a bit in the manga where the bullet was caught and in the anime.again

No you did not answer any one you only proved the currently calc is grossly wrong

Forth arguments:
Me:

Its not really, you saying it doesn't make it so. You also realize that context behind the speed lines is that she is running at Mai prior right? Maybe my fault for not providing that context but none the less, she was in motion prior to bullet being shot, running at Mai.

No, we see motion, we literally Maki running to Mai with her hand to her side, bullet is shot, see that after the bullet reaches Maki's face, then Maki hand comes in and catches the bullet. We literally see two drawings with speeds lines of the hands, one of the hand coming in, and one catching, then her body leaning along with the motion and way her hand moved. That is motion. Yes. She did more her head, I never said she didn't???

I sorry if you don't understand movement and body motion, but what you have been saying is false.

Anime =/= manga. The events in the manga and anime are different, the only thing the same is the hand coming from the side after the bullet was shot. Anime is her catching the bullet in front of her face with her head back, manga is it swiping it out of the way, there is no indication of it being moved. Even if she did its not even noticeable, which there isn't.

Stop pushing forth misinformation.


I guess I did.

Pain:
-No Response Yet-

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Therefir here is the current arguments, however I recommend reading the chapter before going into it. Understanding the context.

Here is the chapter

First arguments:
Me:

Pain:


Second arguments:
Me:

Pain:


Third arguments:
Me:

Pain:


Forth arguments:
Me:

Pain:
-No Response Yet-

You do realize we are trying to calc this feat maybe it will give us something around subsonic+, transonic and not higher right??
As anything higher is not useable

 

[Dr._whiteee]

You do realize we are trying to calc this feat maybe it will give us something around subsonic+, transonic and not higher right??
As anything higher is not useable

No it isn’t. Learn about physics before making claims like this.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No it isn’t. Learn about physics before making claims like this.

What's with the hostility? If you can't say things with cool.heads don't say them at all.

Anyway like I said of maki could not tag someone who just surpassed subsonic, any feat done by a slower maki does not pass that mark

 

[Dr._whiteee]

What's with the hostility? If you can't say things with cool.heads don't say them at all.

Anyway like I said of maki could not tag someone who just surpassed subsonic, any feat done by a slower maki does not pass that mark

I’m not hostile, just being frank. It’s general wisdom to not discuss matters your ignorant of, and the fact that you are asserting such things makes me question your intentions regarding your attention on this thread.

uhm no. First off, that matter isn’t even settled so not sure why you are claiming this as a fact. Secondly, this feat being calced correctly would frame the naoya stuff in a completely different light, and C. Feats do not magically get erased, especially since this is a casual mid tier feat that would apply yo anyone worth their salt. Many verses feats take precedence to author ignorance.

ipso facto, no, this feat will still be useable given the outcome is higher than subsonic, which it will 100% be.

 

[PowerToScale]

Anyway like I said of maki could not tag someone who just surpassed subsonic, any feat done by a slower maki does not pass that mark

The statement refers Naoya already surpassing Subsonic and continuing to grow faster. With Maki fighting and taking him in the moment. The argument of the thread is using that statement to relate it to others to downgrade, however there are arguments against this. One being the feats against the the statement.

That's why feats are being discussed and Maki's feats. One of the arguments is due to all the feats above subsonic and beginning of series being less 1x away to being above subsonic, many feats contradict the notion, if you are arguing that point, as it can be debated. Its because they contradict what is said, what is said should be disregarded, which is valid reason on the wiki.

Its not that Maki can't tag people above subsonic, its that they have been showing feats above subsonic that contradict whats said and because of it, and other things it should be disregarded.

Not that that any feat doesn't not pass the mark.

You do realize we are trying to calc this feat maybe it will give us something around subsonic+, transonic and not higher right??
As anything higher is not useable

There are a few calcs already. By having all the bullet speeds changed to 60 m/s.

Maki moving and catching the bullet after reaching her face Supersonic+ to High Hypersonic.

Only one calc, which assumes that moving as soon as the bullet was fired gave subsonic.

Although as seen with the manga and anime both interpreting Maki moving after the bullet reaches her, it wouldn't count. This is also using 60m/s which is being argued the wrong speed and that the rubber bullet speed of a handgun/revolver.

I'm just clarifying things as how you said it may come off misleading.

 

[Antvasima]

This thread is really long now. Have you reached any useful conclusions here?

 

[PowerToScale]

This thread is really long now. Have you reached any useful conclusions here?

nothing as of yet

 

[Dr._whiteee]

This thread is really long now. Have you reached any useful conclusions here?

Yes, the maki feat needs to be recalced. I am working on getting someone to calc it and discussion about the methods can be discussed on the calc itself. Temporary closing this is probably the best idea.

 

[PrinceofPein]

This thread is really long now. Have you reached any useful conclusions here?

Well the previous conclusion of someone to recalc the feat, most said they can't the people.you called to said same thing.
So yes the feat should be axxed, and also we have a solid in verse statement and that's what should be gone with, all that I think is necessary is to calculate a feat for lower tiers to scale to

 

[PowerToScale]

Yes, the maki feat needs to be recalced. I am working on getting someone to calc it and discussion about the methods can be discussed on the calc itself. Temporary closing this is probably the best idea.

This sounds like the best option. e can always open the thread once the calcs are done too.

If possible, can you also calc this one and this one too. They should provide useful results

I would calc them myself but I'm a little busy. I already know how to calc the bullet cutting but as said busy with somethings in life.

 

[PowerToScale]

Well the previous conclusion of someone to recalc the feat, most said they can't the people.you called to said same thing.
So yes the feat should be axxed, and also we have a solid in verse statement and that's what should be gone with, all that I think is necessary is to calculate a feat for lower tiers to scale to

People not being able to calc isn't something that can just axe the feat, especially when it has been calculated already (although using non-rubber bullet speeds). As argued earlier in the thread the statement is debated about and isn't black/white.

As motioned earlier, Dr._White is having someone calculate the feat and wait see the results.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so should I close this thread for the time being then? One of you can inform me once new progress has been made with the calculations, if I need to call for calc group members to help out, and when I should reopen this thread.

 

[PowerToScale]

Okay, so should I close this thread for the time being then? One of you can inform me once new progress has been made with the calculations, if I need to call for calc group members to help out, and when I should reopen this thread.

I believe that is the best option, imo. Yeah, once calc are made, the thread can be opened again. Although, I do also think if there are no developments, say for a month, the thread can be reopened to question were the calcs are and move on with the discussion. As we can't wait forever, and wouldn't be fair to the other side.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but I won't remember to reopen this thread in a month. Somebody else will have to remind me.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

So I asked user M3X to calc the feat

Ok, I can't really pixelscale the movement, because we don't see it. But I can calc it. Looking at this scan, I can see that the movement is a bit above 90 degree, but below 180. I think that ~110 degree works.

Using this calculator to find the length of the movement, considering an arm of c meters, I get 0.332086m of movement.

The calculation I sent above got a distance of 0.011m between her and the bullet, so I'm gonna use the speed you gave me, 220 m/s.

Time: 0.011/220 = 0.00005 seconds.

Speed: 0.332086/0.00005 = 6641.72 m/s, Mach 19.363, High Hypersonic.

The calc he refers to is this one.

This is whereabouts I pegged the feat from the beginning so I think it's a safe calculation to use for people on Maki's level (at that time) and above.

 

[Arkenis]

So I asked user M3X to calc the feat


The calc he refers to is this one.

This is whereabouts I pegged the feat from the beginning so I think it's a safe calculation to use for people on Maki's level (at that time) and above.

How good is the argument for the bullets speed?