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Jujutsu Kaisen revision - Part 1: Speed

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Is somebody willing to place the above calculation in a blog for calc group evaluation?
 
Dr._whiteee said:
So I asked user M3X to calc the feat


The calc he refers to is this one.

This is whereabouts I pegged the feat from the beginning so I think it's a safe calculation to use for people on Maki's level (at that time) and above.
Click to expand...
All this calc are using the assumption that her hands started moving after the bullet got close to her face and that's the major flaw
 
Pain_to12 said:
While the math is correct the basis is wrong and also


Too high, past what is stated in verse
Click to expand...
The basis is not wrong. You are literally making up convolutions in order to try and invalidate was is a very straightforward feat that is quite ubiquitous across fiction.

No it's not. All the statement you are referring to dictates is that Noaya moved into mach speeds. Meaning he is > Mach 1. His technique is also about movement speed, while Maki's feat is a reaction/combat feat. It is very common for people to have high reaction speeds compared to their movement speed as is the case with humans Irl. I can hit a fastball at 90mph, but I can't get anywhere close to that speed as a unit.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
The basis is not wrong. You are literally making up convolutions in order to try and invalidate was is a very straightforward feat that is quite ubiquitous across fiction.
Click to expand...
I will like you to prove that make did not move her hand before the bullet got that close

Dr._whiteee said:
No it's not. All the statement you are referring to dictates is that Noaya moved into mach speeds. Meaning he is > Mach 1. His technique is also about movement speed, while Maki's feat is a reaction/combat feat.
Click to expand...
But maki could not tag him??? Lol makes absolute no sense, according to.your calc, maki is 19 times faster than him but she could not tag him??
And this is going back on what was decided a month ago, it was decided by the staffs that we go with in verse statements but since it's vague and we can't put a precise speed on it, we calculate a feat close to it in verse which there are multiple btw and we go with it. Calcs won't invalidate inverse statements as calcs will always be head canon
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Please explain further.
Click to expand...
Pain's understanding is that Maki reacted as the bullet was fired, however, this is wrong:

Maki in the moment didn't know of Mai's technique, unknowingly Maki is running up to Mai, believing she is out of bullets. Maki then is caught off guard and surprised by the bullet. We see that the bullet got close to her as she had been unknown of the bullet. Maki only then after moves to catch it, after it gets close to her, this is seen as we see her movements come after the bullet near hits her in the manga (As seen below), showing that the bullet almost hits then Maki moves to catch it.



We also see this interpretation in the anime, solidifying that among both the manga and anime (Primary and secondary sources) view the scene as Maki reacting after the bullet almost hits.

Full chapter so it shows I am not taking scans out of context. Also recommended to gain a better understanding.

TL;dr:
  • Maki is unexpected of the bullet, as she didn't know Mai can create one, surprising her and catching her off guard.
  • Maki is shown only to move and catch the bullet after its almost hits her, this is seen in the scans above (and chapter), showing that the the bullet almost hits then shemoves and not moves as it is fired. This interpretation in the anime, (A secondary source), solidifying the interpretation that Maki moves after. The anime was also worked along side the Gege (author of series).
 
Zero attempt has been made to address or even acknowledge the concerns and criticisms the have been pointed out by the proposed calculation. This is ridiculous; we are just back to square one.

So I made my own calc, using the backward movement scenario to explain the discrepancy.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Jujutsu Kaisen: Mai's Bullet Catch - Super Hyper Enhanced Ultra Cursed Edition

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Result is 14.804 m/s.
 
PowerToScale said:
Pain's understanding is that Maki reacted as the bullet was fired, however, this is wrong:

Maki in the moment didn't know of Mai's technique, unknowingly Maki is running up to Mai, believing she is out of bullets. Maki then is caught off guard and surprised by the bullet. We see that the bullet got close to her as she had been unknown of the bullet. Maki only then after moves to catch it, after it gets close to her, this is seen as we see her movements come after the bullet near hits her in the manga (As seen below), showing that the bullet almost hits then Maki moves to catch it.



We also see this interpretation in the anime, solidifying that among both the manga and anime (Primary and secondary sources) view the scene as Maki reacting after the bullet almost hits.

Full chapter so it shows I am not taking scans out of context. Also recommended to gain a better understanding.

TL;dr:
  • Maki is unexpected of the bullet, as she didn't know Mai can create one, surprising her and catching her off guard.
  • Maki is shown only to move and catch the bullet after its almost hits her, this is seen in the scans above (and chapter), showing that the the bullet almost hits then shemoves and not moves as it is fired. This interpretation in the anime, (A secondary source), solidifying the interpretation that Maki moves after. The anime was also worked along side the Gege (author of series).
Click to expand...

This is a freaking blatant lie, my questions are
1. Where is your proof that make arms did not move prior to it getting that close to her
2. Where is the proof that she didn't move her head?

Like dude you just missed my entire point by 10 miles and it's really annoying
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Zero attempt has been made to address or even acknowledge the concerns and criticisms the have been pointed out by the proposed calculation. This is ridiculous; we are just back to square one.

So I made my own calc, using the backward movement scenario to explain the discrepancy.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Jujutsu Kaisen: Mai's Bullet Catch - Super Hyper Enhanced Ultra Cursed Edition

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Result is 14.804 m/s.
Click to expand...
This was acknowledged and said in the thread, don't lie. I have made numerous comments about it. You choosing to ignore them doesn't make them no exist.

She didn't move back in the manga. We literally see that her body has shifted to the side when she caught the bullet, she didn't move back. The anime is something different, and you could make the argument for her moving back. but not manga. Her body is shifted to the side because of the momentum of moving to catch the bullet. That is why her hand is off to the side, her body off to the side and her HEAD is off to the side.

Nice calc, but its based off a faulty understanding.
 
Pain_to12 said:
This is a freaking blatant lie, my questions are
Click to expand...


hmm
Pain_to12 said:
1. Where is your proof that make arms did not move prior to it getting that close to her
Click to expand...
That Maki is surprised by the attack and not anticipating it, which causes the bullet to get up to her. Her movements are literally shown after the bullet gets near her, showing she doesn't move until after the ballet gets near her, this is supported as the anime also follows this interpretation, showing that this is the way to interpret it, a secondary source that was worked on by the author as well.
Pain_to12 said:
2. Where is the proof that she didn't move her head?
Click to expand...
Because of body momentum of catching the bullet has moved her head and body to the side. This is support as its what is visually shown. This was said multiple times.
 
@Antvasima

The same argument has been said over and over, I have addressed the same argument multiple times, with the opposing side essentially only giving a "you're wrong" with nothing much else. This is getting tiring and very tedious. The calc has been calced and has been accepted as well. This will just continue if we keep arguing and I believe that both sides have presented enough for you guys to make a decision.
 
Okay. I am not good at evaluating content revision threads about verses I know little about, but think that PowerToScale seems to make sense above regarding the bullet calculation.

Have any other staff members commented in this thread?
 
Last edited:
Properly a good idea to make a calc group members thread.

PowerToScale said:
This was acknowledged and said in the thread, don't lie. I have made numerous comments about it. You choosing to ignore them doesn't make them no exist.

She didn't move back in the manga. We literally see that her body has shifted to the side when she caught the bullet, she didn't move back. The anime is something different, and you could make the argument for her moving back. but not manga. Her body is shifted to the side because of the momentum of moving to catch the bullet. That is why her hand is off to the side, her body off to the side and her HEAD is off to the side.

Nice calc, but its based off a faulty understanding.
Click to expand...
I am talking about the calc Dr._whiteee posted, not the thread; pay attention. The calc changing how the arm movement is calculated and plugging in a higher bullet speed does nothing to address the criticism/concerns; the change to the design of the original calc is minimal so the original cricisms/concerns remain the same.

Her body was slightly tilted forward AFTER she caught the bullet. You need to prove what happened WHILE she was catching the bullet.
If you notice, I am only arguing from the manga. If she moved to the side why can't we see her body or head while she was catching the bullet? Did she become invisible?

As Therefir said:
Therefir said:
The feat doesn't make much sense at all, the bullet was about to hit her, but when she catches it, the bullet is suddenly a meter away from her, how can we calculate something like this if we don't know how far the bullet moved compared to her arm?
Click to expand...

The feat either doesn't make sense and is to be discarded, or the discrepancy is to be resolved. Currently bending backwards seems to be a solution to resolve the discrepancy.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
If you notice, I am only arguing from the manga. If she moved to the side why can't we see her body or head while she was catching the bullet? Did she become invisible?
Click to expand...
She was slightly leaning forward to begin with, even before she began to move to catch the bullet. Her learning still slightly forward after is not a problem.

ShadowWhoWalks said:
If you notice, I am only arguing from the manga. If she moved to the side why can't we see her body or head while she was catching the bullet? Did she become invisible?
Click to expand...
Because she didn't, nothing indicates she did (in manga). While we visually see that she has moved to the side. You're basis is the time where she is catching the bullet and isn't present is her moving backwards, while I'm saying that she isn't present is because she moved to the side.

She isn't shown at all to move backwards, while we visually see that she has moved to the side. The reason she can't have moved back is because nothing shows she did, while we have visual evidence that she moved to the side. Also that fact she still leaning forward, like she did prior to the catch is just showing that her head hasn't moved back at all, still leaning forward.

If she showed she moved back, it would be fine, but she hasn't,
ShadowWhoWalks said:
I am talking about the calc Dr._whiteee posted, not the thread; pay attention. The calc changing how the arm movement is calculated and plugging in a higher bullet speed does nothing to address the criticism/concerns; the change to the design of the original calc is minimal so the original cricisms/concerns remain the same.
Click to expand...
The speed used is based on the prior argument in thread. But even lowering the speed to 60 m/s the it is still hypersonic in speed. Based on argument of bullet speeds, I have read it and am in agreement with Dr._Whites argument but if 60 m/s is used, it isn't much of a problem.


ShadowWhoWalks said:
As Therefir said:


The feat either doesn't make sense and is to be discarded, or the discrepancy is to be resolved. Currently bending backwards seems to be a solution to resolve the discrepancy.
Click to expand...
That was about the anime, not the manga.
 
Yeah I am not arguing this quite ridiculous notion. These types of feats are ubiquitous across fiction and the argument being posed here is an argument from ignorance. The succession of panels is very clear: surprised -> reacts. It's already been ok'd by a staff member as well who clearly didn't have these concerns.

I'm not even going to touch why the opposing 14m/s calc is just ridiculous. So I'll let whoever is gonna decide between the two touch that.
 
PowerToScale said:


hmm

That Maki is surprised by the attack and not anticipating it, which causes the bullet to get up to her. Her movements are literally shown after the bullet gets near her, showing she doesn't move until after the ballet gets near her, this is supported as the anime also follows this interpretation, showing that this is the way to interpret it, a secondary source that was worked on by the author as well.

Because of body momentum of catching the bullet has moved her head and body to the side. This is support as its what is visually shown. This was said multiple times.
Click to expand...

I asked for proof not more head canon, seriously send your scans
 
I can't even understand why anyone would argue she didn't move her head or she was surprised blatant dishonesty a really clear one
 
Pain_to12 said:
I asked for proof not more head canon, seriously send your scans
Click to expand...
It wasn't, otherwise the initial things you said would have been asking for proof not just "hurr assumption bad".
PowerToScale said:
That Maki is surprised by the attack and not anticipating it, which causes the bullet to get up to her. Her movements are literally shown after the bullet gets near her, showing she doesn't move until after the ballet gets near her, this is supported as the anime also follows this interpretation, showing that this is the way to interpret it, a secondary source that was worked on by the author as well.
Click to expand...
"That Maki is surprised by the attack and not anticipating it, which causes the bullet to get up to her. Her movements are literally shown after the bullet gets near her"


The first page shows Maki's confidence of her not having anymore bullets, deciding to run in to attack Mai. The next page is where Mai fires her secret bullet, we see a clear face of unexpectedness and surprise on Maki's face, showing that she was not aware of the bullet. The page also uses !! to express her strong feelings of surprise. The third page we that the bullet has reached Maki and that her eyes are wide open and still surprised by the bullet.

"showing she doesn't move until after the ballet gets near her, this is supported as the anime also follows this interpretation, showing that this is the way to interpret it, a secondary source that was worked on by the author as well."


The manga shows and depicts her movements after the bullet reaches her, indicating that she moved after the bullets reaches her. This interpretations is also used in the anime (secondary source), showing that the interpretation of her moving after the bullet is correct. Two sources showing that the movement happens after the bullet reaches, with both being worked on by Gege.
 
Pain_to12 said:
I can't even understand why anyone would argue she didn't move her head or she was surprised blatant dishonesty a really clear one
Click to expand...
I can't even understand why someone would lie and make false malicious claims but proof nothing, truly a shameless person.
 
Antvasima said:
@Armorchompy @DemonGodMitchAubin @KieranH10 @Wokistan

Would you be willing to evaluate which of the above calculations that is most reliable to use, and then tell us here, please?
Click to expand...
I agree with White's method, she seems to react after the bullet was just inches away from impacting her face, rather than moving her hand the moment the bullet was fired.

However, there's no way that bullet is just one centimeter away from her, they need to measure the distance between the bullet and her head, not the distance between the bullet and her hair.
 
My calc doesn't assume the hand moved the moment the bullet was fired though, so I don't see how that is related when making comparison.

White's calc still begs the question and doesn't provide an answer to the original calc's criticism; where is Maki's head? There is about 19.7 cm between the bullet and the right side of the panel, which is much larger than 4.7 cm:
0042-014.png


If she already moved her head away from the trajectory of the bullet, then the timeframe she has to move her arm and catch the bullet becomes much larger and therefore different.

220 m/s for the rubber bullet's speed is also arbitrary.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
White's calc still begs the question and doesn't provide an answer to the original calc's criticism; where is Maki's head? There is about 19.7 cm between the bullet and the right side of the panel, which is much larger than 4.7 cm:
0042-014.png
Click to expand...
This was answered already. Where is her head? Off screen to the side. Her head isn't present in the panel of catching the bullet, because her head moved to the left as seen below the panel because of the momentum of catching the bullet, at the same time as the bullet was caught. That is why it isn't present. We literally see that she is leaning out of the way too, of her original heads position.
ShadowWhoWalks said:
If she already moved her head away from the trajectory of the bullet, then the timeframe she has to move her arm and catch the bullet becomes much larger and therefore different.
Click to expand...
No, she didn't already move her head. Her head moved out of the way the same time she caught the bullet. It didn't happen separate. Her head being moved out of the way by her momentum and her catching the bullet all happened at the same time.
ShadowWhoWalks said:
220 m/s for the rubber bullet's speed is also arbitrary.
Click to expand...
220 m/s is based of some sound argument, even so, using 60 m/s would still give supersonic.
 
So if I understand correctly, Maki's head and arm started moving at the same time (which I didn't deny), and then Maki successfully moved her head away from the trajectory of the bullet before the panel where she clasps her hand on the bullet, correct?
And that it is possible her head and arm moved at different speeds and distances, even if they started moving at the same time.


Why 220 m/s specifically when we can cherrypick all sort of speeds from cartridges that wouldn't fit into a Colt Python?
MAicMJq.jpg
DOt9TDt.jpg
 
Therefir said:
I agree with White's method, she seems to react after the bullet was just inches away from impacting her face, rather than moving her hand the moment the bullet was fired.

However, there's no way that bullet is just one centimeter away from her, they need to measure the distance between the bullet and her head, not the distance between the bullet and her hair.
Click to expand...
Therefir said:
I just went and measured the distance myself, and got Supersonic+ results.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for helping out. If @Dr._whiteee updates his calculation blog accordingly, the new result can probably be used then.
 
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