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Jujutsu Kaisen Downgrade

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Wow he's still going

It has been explained numerous times that the validity of the calcs don't matter. That's not even the point. The problem comes in when you recognize that the characters within the verse have a far lower canon speed then our calcs yield based on the plethora of statements going against them. In this case, It would only make sense to go with what is stated. It would be absolutely nonsensical to ignore an entire scaling chain of events that the author compiled simply because "muh calcs".
 
KingTempest said:
I love how you guys say "feats are from gege" then ignore the direct statements from gege.

So why do the feats hold more precedence than his statements?
Click to expand...
Feats > Statements. Feats are literally what is being shown on camera. Character statements and narrative and liable to the author's knowledge and Gege has consistently shown to mess up at times by making statements they later have to amend or have touched upon by people with more knowledge, to the point he is now asking advisors for help like he did with Kashimo's lightning.

If the verse consistently treats something like gunfire and explosions as things that can be reacted to and aren't immediate game-overs, then I am not going to ignore literal instances of that occurring when trying to determine the speed of the verse. Someone like Maki is fast enough to literally treat dozens of Zenin warriors like fodder and take out the top division with ease. If mach 3 is a barrier to her, then people like Yuji, Megumi, etc have no business even being in the ballpark of mach speeds. Yet they do and even a weaker Maki does.

I'm not sure why people are trying to act like standard procedure should be changed here despite all of the context and blatant feats against downgrade in question. If there was literally like one hypersonic feat with a bunch of transsonic and faster than the eye can see feats, then I'd be with you. But that's blatantly not the scale JJK has consistently shown to operate on via things that actually occurred.
 
KingTempest said:
You can dodge after they're fired and still be much slower you know this right?
Click to expand...
From the distance fired Yuji at some point had to be the rate of speed the bullet was traveling in order to get outside the distance of being hit. We see Yuji was able to move the distance in time to dodge all 3 bullets despite them being fired before he moved. So no, this calc would not get results that aren't in the supersonic range given the magnum speed for her gun would be quite high and > Mach 1.
 
What's the current vote-tally looking like?

I don't really see a consesus being reached here unless there's something being gravely ignored.
So i'd propose just voting as we only seem to be going in circles.
 
Oh if we are counting votes, we have enough votes and staff votes for it already, the main thing is finding the best speed feats they can scale to that will be consistent. One of the Maki calc has a subsonic ratings, that can be used. Also the OP is really empty, it just stated the problem and no solution, I will create a new CRT later
KingTempest said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Is it alright if i use your post from the page 2 detailing the progression of events in the new CRT (it will probably be the whole OP)
 
Pain_to12 said:
Oh if we are counting votes, we have enough votes and staff votes for it already, the main thing is finding the best speed feats they can scale to that will be consistent. One of the Maki calc has a subsonic ratings, that can be used. Also the OP is really empty, it just stated the problem and no solution, I will create a new CRT later

Is it alright if i use your post from the page 2 detailing the progression of events in the new CRT (it will probably be the whole OP)
Click to expand...
Go ahead
 
Agree to downgrade: Swerzye29038, Rez, Pain_to12, Yemma670, Damage3245, KingTempest, Arc7Kuroi, UchihaSlayer96, Gitagon, Dread, Arkenis, Mazdoesstuff, Ayewale (with a possibly rating for higher speeds), Tatsumi504, Naeblis495, Life_of_King, Shey (17)

Disagree with downgrade: Dr_ Whitee, Maverick_Zero_X, Duedate8898, Thereal_cal_howard, Powertoscale, RIZEXX, Arceus0x, Joesmooth (7)

Neutral: Chariot (of the opinion to go with what is more consistent leaning towards disagree), Shadowbokunohero (go with what is consistent), Arnoldstone18 (leaning heavily toward disagree), Confluctor (go with what is consistent), Andytrenom (Go with what is more consistent), Panache_x?, CloverDragon03, Cyberblader90, Nierre. (9)

Given that several mods are also leaning towards disagree and cited the standard being "go with what is more consistent," that should be the matter of discussion.
 
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Dr._whiteee said:
He still dodged after the bullets were fired and she's not even outside of 5m from him not to mention it was three in succession.
Click to expand...
Assuming Itadori travelled 1 meter to dodge and the bullets were 3 meters away:

1 x 470/3 = 156.666 m/s or Mach 0.45

Not even Subsonic+ lol
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Assuming Itadori travelled 1 meter to dodge and the bullets were 3 meters away:

1 x 470/3 = 156.666 m/s or Mach 0.45

Not even Subsonic+ lol
Click to expand...
Assuming Itadori traveled 1 meter to dodge and the bullets were 5 meters away:

1 x 470/5 = 94m/s or Mach 0.27

Not even Subsonic+ lol.

Point is Goodwill is consistently Subsonic to maybe Subsonic+ and Shibuya doesn't do anything higher
 
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ok so am caught up with the current pages

first what needs to be done is determining who naoya even affects narratively and scaling wise. The durability thing is indeed relavant to extent, though im not even sure if its consistent in verse for visual feats (completely disregarding calcs entirely)

at speeds lower than mach 1, naoya is doing this for example:

0151-004.png


Gojo is held above naobito in speed, and has his own direct speed feat which maybe more impressive than Naoya:



Gojo himself dodges an explosion. It has to be faster than sound because it's a shockwave at close range. Using just the speed of sound as a minimum, calc wise the feat gets over Mach 50. Now obviously this thread is here in the first place because of feat/statement discrepancy with calcs. The point is Gojo is not narratively bound by naoya and his stated speed. they have no direct scaling whatsoever.

It is indeed true Gege is placing a cap on speed for most of the verse. However, this proposed narrative intent needs to be examined further. For example, less than 10 chapters prior to the mach 3 statement, Gege introduced a character named Kashimo, who fought a former student of Jujutsu High named Kinji Hakari. Kashimoā€™s whole deal is stated he can manifest actual lightning from his cursed energy, lightning that was painstakingly made practically 1-to-1 with IRL lightning by Gege. Gege even went out and recruited the science advisor for the Dr. Stone manga to get all the information correct for this ability.

There is also equal, if not more evidence for it being the speed of electricity in air.

The lightning is also noted to be very fast, so much so it matches the Sure Hit feature of Domains without needing one active. Hakari reacts twice to this lightning, with even the lowest value possible (Mach 1.6 for an actual test of electricity in mid air) gets Hakariā€™s reaction of moving his head to save himself to Mach 6. It does tag his arm, but you can note his knee is more bent and it missed his face, showing he moved a bit away from it. This remains consistent as Hakari pulls off a similar feat right after. He then goes on to get faster, with his Domain Bonus.

This is not just arguing a calc over narrative intent. Gege went as far as to get the scientific advisor for the Dr. Stone manga to explain the properties of the lightning correctly (ch 188-189), and directly inserted narrative text boxes describing the lightning to be actual lightning and also bringing up the information regarding the charge of it.

As such its important to specify who is being affected by the thread.

As for other feats, power to scale took shadow's subsonic calc for maki and did these conversions:

The absolute lowest calculation for it, done with the lowest amount of assumptions possible, gets subsonic results. Problem with the calc is the bullet speed as it mentions it uses 60 m/s of riot gun 37-mm M201-Z, which for the record looks like this. It's like firing a sniper but using BB gun bullet speeds, it is not comparable. While using the 220 m/s speeds which are more accurate would give:
Click to expand...

Moving head down speed: 0.12887/0.00021363636= 603.221286863 (Mach 1.7) Supersonic

Moving head to the side speed: 0.074143/0.00021363636= 347.052346333 (Mach 1.01) Supersonic

Lastly: While Piercing Blood does in fact drop in speed after it's fired, it starts faster than sound.

powertoscale proposed the following:

To give the benefit of the doubt, if it slows down after itā€™s been fired, there is no known rate of how fast it decelerates, which leads to only assumptions. Even if you assume it to be half the speed of sound (171.5 m/s) or even 1/10 of sound (34.3 m/s), this would still result in supersonic reactions from Yuji. Yuji would also have supersonic perception, via seeing it initially being faster than sound.
Click to expand...

several characters reacting to Chosoā€™s blood projectile, which is said to exceed the speed of sound, several times.
Click to expand...
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Assuming Itadori travelled 1 meter to dodge and the bullets were 3 meters away:

1 x 470/3 = 156.666 m/s or Mach 0.45

Not even Subsonic+ lol
Click to expand...

Mazdoesstuff said:
Assuming Itadori travelled 1 meter to dodge and the bullets were 3 meters away:

1 x 470/3 = 156.666 m/s or Mach 0.45

Not even Subsonic+ lol
Click to expand...
Ok lol this adds to my point. If Mach 3 is a speed that is enough to absolutely blitz Maki, that means that she is <<<< MAch 3 by your logic correct? Given that if she was even a fraction of that speed she could have dodged similar to this situation given Noaya was dozens of meters away.

So what makes you think that showing me a mach .5 feat from a Yuji who is currently <<<< his current self, let alone Current Maki, is a piece of evidence that points in your favor?

We could also bring up Maki's bullet feat and Getou's which is much more impressive. So I don't see how this is an anti feat.
 
Gonna tell u this cuz u prob forgot and i just remembered it but Yuji reacting to pb is wrong, He gets hit by it and he isn't just slightly getting hit by it, he gets a big slash on his face, any calc for it is just wrong and shouldn't even be done. Another thing is that when Uraume reacts to it he has his hands already up to block it and moves them a little bit more to block fully which wouldn't give you anything far above Mach 1. Now if Yuji and Uraume are actually Hypersonic or Mach 3 or something else like scaling to Maki's bullet calc then these two feats would explicitly show that Hypersonic is not consistent for characters who are faster than Maki.

I want everyone to know that being Hypersonic compared to Speed of Sound aka what the Piercing Blood sits around or below, would look like this
Speed of Sound: Mach -> 1/ 343m/s
Hypersonic: Mach 5 -> 1,715m/s

The difference in meters is a 5x difference, way enough to blitz Speed of sound, yet they don't blitz pb, yet Naoya is just now getting mach 3, Naoya also calls Pb frightnening even though people think these characters are hypersonic.

I urge you to realize that Yuji is blatantly stated to be faster than Maki yet cannot at all blitz a sos of attack, Uraume who should also be faster than Maki can not blitz pb either.
CC69691C-DF08-47B4-8390-3E41ECB1CDB8_1_201_a.jpeg

1279F855-AA94-46D9-ACD9-5B07342AAE68.jpeg

really hope this changed people's opinion
 
Dr._whiteee said:
We could also bring up Maki's bullet feat and Getou's which is much more impressive. So I don't see how this is an anti feat.
Click to expand...
Mai shot the bullet from like 10 meters away lol, it really isnā€™t a good feat either

Iā€™ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume Maiā€™s bullets are the fastest bullets in the real world (.220 Swift, 1422 m/s)

1422/10 = 142 m/s = Mach 0.41

Subsonic once again lol
 
Arkenis said:
Gonna tell u this cuz u prob forgot and i just remembered it but Yuji reacting to pb is wrong, He gets hit by it and he isn't just slightly getting hit by it, he gets a big slash on his face, any calc for it is just wrong and shouldn't even be done. Another thing is that when Uraume reacts to it he has his hands already up to block it and moves them a little bit more to block fully which wouldn't give you anything far above Mach 1. Now if Yuji and Uraume are actually Hypersonic or Mach 3 or something else like scaling to Maki's bullet calc then these two feats would explicitly show that Hypersonic is not consistent for characters who are faster than Maki.

I want everyone to know that being Hypersonic compared to Speed of Sound aka what the Piercing Blood sits around or below, would look like this
Speed of Sound: Mach -> 1/ 343m/s
Hypersonic: Mach 5 -> 1,715m/s

The difference in meters is a 5x difference, way enough to blitz Speed of sound, yet they don't blitz pb, yet Naoya is just now getting mach 3, Naoya also calls Pb frightnening even though people think these characters are hypersonic.

I urge you to realize that Yuji is blatantly stated to be faster than Maki yet cannot at all blitz a sos of attack, Uraume who should also be faster than Maki can not blitz pb either.
CC69691C-DF08-47B4-8390-3E41ECB1CDB8_1_201_a.jpeg

1279F855-AA94-46D9-ACD9-5B07342AAE68.jpeg

really hope this changed people's opinion
Click to expand...
Havent rechecked yuji yet

as for the other example, the hands arent up in the first scene while choso is charging piercing blood but could have come up off panel. Piercing blood is also noted to be fast
 
The consistency argument doesnā€™t work anymore because two alleged ā€œsupersonic featsā€ you mentioned were calced at Subsonic
 
Cyberblader90 said:
you know what fair enough to that

what are your thoughts on the rest of the entire post

responding to tempest
Click to expand...
Nobody should scale to be faster than piercing blood off of any feats of combatting it (that's just me, ik you didn't say so)

Everything else is fine, your points are valid
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Mai shot the bullet from like 10 meters away lol, it really isnā€™t a good feat either

Iā€™ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume Maiā€™s bullets are the fastest bullets in the real world (.220 Swift, 1422 m/s)

1422/10 = 142 m/s = Mach 0.41

Subsonic once again lol
Click to expand...
Not really we can clearly see everyone is stationed in trees within about 5m of Yuji.

Not to mention you are missing my point. If Maki is being blitzed by mach 3 without any reaction, then she isn't anywhere near that speed given your own logic, seeing as this feat only requires a fraction of speed of sound to react to something about the speed of sound.

So explain why Yuji moving a significant fraction of that speed makes sense if even casual Noaya is fast enough to give him trouble and not even sub sonic?

Makes no sense, unless you see that Gege's statement is unreliable.
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
The consistency argument doesnā€™t work anymore because two alleged ā€œsupersonic featsā€ you mentioned were calced at Subsonic
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? Those were literally two extra feats outside of the ones referenced by power to scale and Megumi's second explosion feat is demonstrably > Supersonic.

Which no one has yet to respond to in full.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Not to mention you are missing my point. If Maki is being blitzed by mach 3 without any reaction, then she isn't anywhere near that speed given your own logic, seeing as this feat only requires a fraction of speed of sound to react to something about the speed of sound.
Click to expand...
Mach 3 is about 7.5x the speed of Mach 0.4, it isnā€™t really far fetched to have someone get blitzed by something thatā€™s 7.5x their speed
 
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