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Jujutsu Kaisen Downgrade

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Arkenis said:
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This your supersonic socerer? Can't even react to an explosion.

The comedian though probably has supersonic speed.
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I mean that's disingenuous of you given that Megumi did react and turn before the explosion fully engulfed him which we see on the next page.

This is also ignoring that Megumi was actively fighting someone else who was in a coordinated attack vs Megumi and was Megumi's first time seeing the technique and logically had no reason to expect a flying eyeball in the sky would be explosive.

After having knowledge Megumi was able to react to their coordination and take several complex actions before being hit by the accelerated explosion from within 5m.

No, Todano's feat is hypersonic+ given he intercepted the blast after it began to explode and took it point blank.
 
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Qawsedf234 said:
While true, a thing to consider with that is gasoline explosions are massively slower than TNT/most conventual explosions. They'd hit a wall far sooner than those explosives would from what I understand.
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Yes but the accelerant would increase the magnitude of the explosion due to multiple pressures being contained in the same area. Megumi taking several complex actions after the initial blast began is way too much distance to cover before being hit by either.
Qawsedf234 said:
But it might be something someone under mach 3 or so could accomplish. Which is what I think the point is.
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For the first feat I'd agree. Not the second one though.

It's actually a misrepresentation though. As trying to claim that feat begin consistent with mach 3 Maki would be invalid. Maki is a bonified speed demon and ranked much higher than current Megumi. If she is being blitzed by mach 3 (as in cannot muster any reaction) then Megumi's feats here being anywhere close to or surpassing mach speeds is internally consistent to their own argument.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
I mean that's disingenuous of you given that Megumi did react and turn before the explosion fully engulfed him which we see on the next page.

This is also ignoring that Megumi was actively fighting someone else who was in a coordinated attack vs Megumi and was Megumi's first time seeing the technique and logically had no reason to expect a flying eyeball in the sky would be explosive.

After having knowledge Megumi was able to react and take several complex actions before being hit by the accelerated explosion from within 5m.

No, Todano's feat is hypersonic+ given he intercepted the blast after it began to explode and took it point blank.
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just shows how much slower he is than explosions and from what i been reading, explosions get slower as they travel and his this traveled pretty far and Megumi didn't move from his position at all. Find it funny that you have to offer up all these excuses as to why people who you think are already hypersonic based off Maki bullet calc or supersonic yet Megumi can not even dodge away from the explosion.

And the next scan proves nothing as this scan shows he couldn't even move away from the explosion as he's engulfed in it.
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Arkenis said:
just shows how much slower he is than explosions
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Even if he was being comparable to them still puts him > supersonic.
Arkenis said:
and from what i been reading, explosions get slower as they travel and his this traveled pretty far and Megumi didn't move from his position at all.
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He was literally ambushed while fighting someone else.

Once he had knowledge, he literally outmaneuvered an even stronger and faster explosion which would still put him well above supersonic and possibly into hypersonic. Read the actual values being discussed instead of just seeing what you want to see.
Arkenis said:
Find it funny that you have to offer up all these excuses as to why people who you think are already hypersonic based off Maki bullet calc or supersonic yet Megumi can not even dodge away from the explosion.
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Megumi did so that's not even a good case.

And uhm, did you miss the literally 15+ examples compiled by power to scale? Includuing several other sorcerers reacting to gunfire?

The point is that by saying the Mach 3 stuff is legit, you are saying that a large slew of people are no where even close to being around mach 3, given that Maki is a top tier in physicality and was literally blitzed by these speeds. Thus, Megumi being anywhere near or above her in reactions speeds is internally consistent. Let alone, the umpteen other hypersonic feats posted in this thread from stronger people.
Arkenis said:
And the next scan proves nothing as this scan shows he couldn't even move away from the explosion as he's engulfed in it.
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No, look at the left side of Megumi's face. It's scorched. Because he turned away from the explosion and only one side was hit as he was escaping. Which is still > supersonic reaction speed.

And you've conveniently failed to address Megumi's second feat throughout this entire post while also ignoring the context of him being ambushed in the first example.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
several other sorcerers reacting to gunfire?
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You mean Kenjaku? And young geto? who else has reacted to gunfire in the series besides those two
Dr._whiteee said:
And you've conveniently failed to address Megumi's second feat throughout this entire post while also ignoring the context of him being ambushed in the first example.
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And you've conveniently decided to ignore Gege's own statements to push forth scaling Gege is so clearly against, idek why we continue having this argument about the series if we all need to do is just ignore statements and canonical speed scales for special attacks to get your own preferred scaling.
 
Seeing the explosion scan that gave Megumi supersonic just makes me shake my head. This would give main characters in half action movies I've watched my entire life supersonic speed.

This is what I was saying with people in the powerscaling side of things not even being able to understand simple stuff like rule of cool and staples of action media. 99% of action movie stars dodge explosions at the last second and escape the blast of the fire. But everyone knows they aren't supersonic. It's just a staple of the genre.

If Gege ever wants to portray Maki or Megumi as supersonic, I am sure he would go for something less vague like Naoya and outright state it. Or show undeniable proof like someone out-speeding a bullet in a straight line rather than just catching one.

Stuff like catching or deflecting bullets, dodging projectiles and explosions, etc is in the realm of possibility for most street level action characters all over media: movies, comics, manga, etc.

Naoya got outright statements for subsonic, surpassing subsonic, supersonic, and now Mach 3. I don't think Gege would treat the MCs any less in terms of elaboration if they could clock such speeds. Even if he didn't say it we would at least see stuff like sonic-booms or something considering Naoya has them when he broke the sound barrier.
 
Arkenis said:
You mean Kenjaku? And young geto? who else has reacted to gunfire in the series besides those two

And you've conveniently decided to ignore Gege's own statements to push forth scaling Gege is so clearly against, idek why we continue having this argument about the series if we all need to do is just ignore statements and canonical speed scales for special attacks to get your own preferred scaling.
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Those two and Maki. That's 3 instances of Gege portraying sorcerers as capable of reacting to gunfire. So are you going to address them?

I am not ignoring it. I am saying that it's inconsistent given the preponderance of evidence highlighting mach 3 being a speed cap for everyone but god tiers being ridiculous. Not my fault the feats don't match up with the statements, but in this case the statement is unreliable, not because I don't like it, but because there are way too many feats to ignore simply. Especially when Gege herself sympathizes with people questioning her about the scaling.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Those two and Maki. That's 3 instances of Gege portraying sorcerers as capable of reacting to gunfire. So are you going to address them?
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0134-012.png

And how fast do u think this actually was? Yeah I'll acknowledge that one of the high tiers in the verse can react to sniper fire from very far away. Yeah lets acknowledge that Geto reacted to some pistol fire
 
Arkenis said:
0134-012.png

And how fast do u think this actually was? Yeah I'll acknowledge that one of the high tiers in the verse can react to sniper fire from very far away. Yeah lets acknowledge that Geto reacted to some pistol fire
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How fast was what? The sniper fire? IT depends on the gun and ammo but assuming it's comparable to an M1 it's be about 1.7 mach and reacting to it from that range would prob be around supersonic+. Same with Geto since he was at close range and moved his arm in an arc before they closed in on him. That might get hypersonic. Maki is comparable to Toji who absolutely dogpiled Geto with speed. But yet mach 3 absolutely blitzed Maki. I'm not willing to take the statements side when there's umpteen feats going against it.
 
Swerzye29038 said:
How is this thread even still going? The verse blatantly caps at mach 3
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the hakiri feat is around mach 6, using electricity in air. It does tag his arm, but you can note his knee is more bent and it missed his face, showing he moved a bit away from it. This remains consistent as Hakari pulls off a similar feat right after. He then goes on to get faster, with his Domain Bonus.

This is not just arguing a calc over narrative intent. Gege went as far as to get the scientific advisor for the Dr Stone manga to explain the properties of the lightning correctly (ch 188-189), and directly inserted narrative text boxes describing the lightning to be actual lightning and also bringing up the information regarding the charge of it. The lightning is also noted to be very fast, so much so it matches the Sure Hit feature of Domains without needing one active.

already made a solid foundation for it earlier being lightning speed, but to back up electricity in air speed I shall post statements, of which there a LOT of statements:
0184-007.png
0184-016.png


0188-013.png
0188-014.png


0189-005.png
0190-005.png
 
i think the maki bullet feat is fine, but anything above supersonic being calced for it is very at odds with projection sorcerery and naoya's stated speeds.

I also think piercing blood reactions are fine but are prob closer to supersonic for reactions given the progression speed drop after the visual mach cone

powertoscale brought this up in regards to that:

To give the benefit of the doubt if it slows down after it’s been fired, there is no known rate of how fast it decelerates, which leads to only assumptions. Even if you assume it to be half the speed of sound (171.5 m/s) or even 1/10 of sound (34.3 m/s) would still result in supersonic reactions from Yuji. Yuji would also gain Supersonic perception from seeing it initially being faster than sound.
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Dr._whiteee said:
You mean rubber bullets that travel at speeds of 220m/s and would grant supersonic+ results?

Ignoring the fact that the bullet calced wasn't one of her rubber bullets but a real one she made to kill Maki?
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You're still going on about this "kill Maki" nonesense. If the bullet would have been able to kill Maki she wouldn't have caught it barehanded with zero damage at that.
 
Gitagon said:
You're still going on about this "kill Maki" nonesense. If the bullet would have been able to kill Maki she wouldn't have caught it barehanded with zero damage at that.
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The thing is she did take damage, you can see in the manga that the hand is bleeding.
 
Gitagon said:
You're still going on about this "kill Maki" nonesense. If the bullet would have been able to kill Maki she wouldn't have caught it barehanded with zero damage at that.
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Except Mai was expliclty trying to catch her off guard with her cursed technique Maki didn’t know.

Also, what is cursed energy reinforcement for 500. We know Mai does this given what happened to Nobara twice. Stop ignoring stuff.
 
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Mach 3 verse cap but Tournament Arc Yuji Outpacing Magnum Fire while also accounting for other people attacking him.

Mach verse cap but Megumi can react to explosions.

No one has countered Power's list of feats either, so not sure what the chirping is about.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Mach 3 verse cap but Tournament Arc Yuji Outpacing Magnum Fire while also accounting for other people attacking him.

Mach verse cap but Megumi can react to explosions.

No one has countered Power's list of feats either, so not sure what the chirping is about.
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Pretty sure a lot of people already disagree with the speed scaling we previously had, at this point Gege wants the verse at mach 3 in speed and durability, you're pushing up a hill that you will never reach the top of and Gege is telling you this stuff blatantly and you just wanna ignore it time and time again. We're better off accepting the speed cap Gege has established than continously debating about random calcs, previous feats, and your need to ignore Gege.
 
Arkenis said:
Pretty sure a lot of people already disagree with the speed scaling we previously had, at this point Gege wants the verse at mach 3 in speed and durability
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Was never brought up nor was there ever a CRT made to debunk the accepted Maki calc and scaling.
Arkenis said:
, you're pushing up a hill that you will never reach the top of and Gege is telling you this stuff blatantly
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Showing > Telling. You realize feats are from gege as well correct? The verse has consistently shown that supersonic+ speeds are consistently being dealt with. Bulletfire specifically has been shown as not enough to simply take out a sorcerer based on speed alone. Going by your logic, anyone not around Maki or amped up Human Noaya speed should be getting clapped vs other series characters with guns, despite the numerous examples we have that would act as evidence against that, and top tiers being able to react to things on the level of lightning.
Arkenis said:
and you just wanna ignore it time and time again. We're better off accepting the speed cap Gege has established than continously debating about random calcs, previous feats, and your need to ignore Gege.
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Previous mods have already discussed the standard being to take what is most consistent. The feats have a longer time frame, begin before the supersonic statements, and exist around them in the timeline. So it is not something Gege established once off, characters are consistently displaying supersonic+to hypersonic feats in the manga. I'm not gonna pretend like a solid ton of feats are suddenly non-existent because Gege (self-admittedly) struggles with speed scaling and proper knowledge. The fact that you're acting like ignoring over a dozen feats is a much saner avenue as opposed to ignoring the supersonic statements is beyond me.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Showing > Telling. You realize feats are from gege as well correct? The verse has consistently shown that supersonic+ speeds are consistently being dealt with. Bulletfire specifically has been shown as not enough to simply take out a sorcerer based on speed alone. Going by your logic, anyone not around Maki or amped up Human Noaya speed should be getting clapped vs other series characters with guns, despite the numerous examples we have that would act as evidence against that, and top tiers being able to react to things on the level of lightning.
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I love how you guys say "feats are from gege" then ignore the direct statements from gege.

So why do the feats hold more precedence than his statements?
 
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