Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
- 6,540
Why? He reacts to Naoya multiple times.
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Jujutsu Kaisen Downgrade
- Thread starter FanSyst
- Start date
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- Tags
- jujutsu kaisen maki zenin
- Status
- 5,634
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kamo calc is wrong
Kamo Reacts to Naoya
vsbattles.fandom.com
Hakari's Lightning Dodge
Hmmmm but Maki was hypersonic already?
This is not saying naoya was faster than sound punching kamo, maki is commenting from her prior fight, she means human naoya
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You can react to sound and be slower than sound
Also that calculation has him faster than Naoya, which is an issue
Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
- 6,540
Yeah? Do you think he didn't get faster as a vengeful spirit?kamo calc is wrong
This is not saying naoya was faster than sound punching kamo, maki is commenting from her prior fight, she means human naoya
Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
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Naoya is mach 3 at max, Kamo is mach 1.3, Vengeful spirit is faster than human Naoya was which was faster than sos
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His peak speed as a cursed womb can be faster than his peak speed as a vengeful spirit
Doesn't mean his casual speed as a vengeful spirit is faster than his peak speed as a cursed womb
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This calculation has Kamo calculated to be faster than Naoya's casual speed, which is wrong.
On top of that, it has him faster than sound, which he quite blatantly states inferiority to
Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
- 6,540
His regular speed scales to a healthy Maki, weakened maki was able to react to top Naoya though.
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thats not the issue, his speed fluctuates based on acceleration. that is a principle of projection Sorcercy
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After waiting for the moment to strike, doesn't mean she's relative in speed, especially when she blatantly implies inferiority
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There are some things that are very wrong with this.Hakari's Lightning Dodge
Firstly your whole basis of his shoulder being further back is using an image of Hakari turning and NOT facing the same direction of when the feat happens. The image you used for this is when Hakari is turning and not facing Kashimo, while when the feat does happen not only is Hakari facing him but his body is straight and not turned like you're proposing, make it untrue that this be the case. His shoulder wasn't further back, we can see a clear difference in the two.
Secondly, the speed used is not the accepted speed of his lightning, you're cherry picking electricity speeds that someone used for a Low ball while this thread has explicitly argued and shown, with people agree it to be real lightning and therefore lightning speed. You would do your best add both of those ends and not make results purposely lower. Using real lightning speed:
0.23645845329971 / (0.48552127191855 + 0.064606131408148) *440000
= 189122.953743 m/s (Mach 551.378873885)
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curious, has the gojo feat been recalced
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Again one of the inconsistencies brought up. This one directly in the fight
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First of all, Hakari turning is deadass the moment the bolt started. He turned his body then that bolt was shot on the same page, with nothing saying that the position of his arm changed other than the next page after a significant movement in his body.
Second of all, what? His arm is blown off, you quite literally have nothing saying "his body is straight" when you can't even see the limb's position compared to the body.
His shoulder is clearly further back, as we can see his shoulder behind his head.
Please recognize the bottom of the calc where I said
Which is pretty much saying "if you don't like my speed, find another speed and multiply it by 0.4298".
Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
- 6,540
no I can't find anything to scale the wall off from the scene. He jumped over 2m though considering the blast's size but just can't measure that.
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What says he didn't just... get out of frame?
Nothing says he jumped the entire wall before the explosion covered a few centimeters
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the anime i think makes it clear he had to have done a full jump
Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
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idk what you're talking about bro. I'm just saying he jumped to the wall so that's the distance he covered and if u look at the page after the explosion he still in the air landing onto the wall.
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He can do a full jump, but it's saying that he covered this entire distance before the bugs' explosion could move a few centimeters
Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
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well clearly not that, the explosion comes from the ground so he'd have to have moved before the explosion reached the surface.
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Arkenis
They/Them- 14,985
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Manga shows it coming from the ground and the bugs too. I wouldn't base it off the anime. but looking at the anime if we're going off it Gojo's still at the center of the explosions and hasn't moved yet. I'm honestly starting to think he didn't react at all and just turned on infinity then jumped up afterwards considering he had on it afterwardsNot really, considering that they come from the bugs
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Shows the same thing in the anime. Here's the next frames, it just forms different but it doesn't come from the ground
ALSO
If it came from the ground, why does the calc calculate the distance from Gojo to the bug?
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Using that speed has already been debunked.
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No way this is all you got from the calculation when I flat out replied this
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No, just wanted to point that out.
But yeah, I also disagree with your assessment of positioning as Hikari was clearly lunging towards Kashimo from his stance which is why in the panel with the close up you can see Hikari's side profile and the collar being viewed from the side as opposed from a front angle.
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He wasn't even MOVING
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In the first panel he is facing his opponent in a side stance with his chest open and facing one side. In the panel where Hikari is about to be hit we see his face leaning forward from a side profile and his shoulders squared. Which then leads to the panel with the dodge in which he moves to his right quickly to get his head out of the way but is hit in his arm as a result of his lateral movement. So clearly his shoulders move in between those panels.
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You know his shoulder could move... because he's getting hit right?
The entire time he's facing Kashimo
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That's not what I am talking about.
Here you can see that Hikari's shoulders are facing away from Kashimo along with his fist while his head is cocked and facing Kashimo directly, Kashimo at this point still looking down. Hikari's right foot is over crossed over his body and leads.
In the next frame, Kashimo looks up with a grin and decides to activate his technique.
We then see by this time that Hikari as squared his shoulders as the bolt is about to hit him square in the forehead.
We can tell his shoulders are squared based on his top button near his jawline. It begins facing away from Kashimo yet in the pic with lightning it is facing Kahsimo's direction. Whe Hikari dodges he is clearly moving to his which wouldn't work based on his previous crossed positioning given we see him now leaning back on his right foot meaning he squared his shoulders.
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????????
In the same 2 panels you just sent, his shoulder is behind his head in both of them.
You're making a handful of logical asspulls to say that somehow his shoulder wasn't behind him when you send me a page with 2 panels... showing that in both scenarios they're behind him.
In the same 2 panels you just sent, his shoulder is behind his head in both of them.
You're making a handful of logical asspulls to say that somehow his shoulder wasn't behind him when you send me a page with 2 panels... showing that in both scenarios they're behind him.
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Honestly after reading through this entire thread i've came to the conclusion that Gege actively wishes for his verse to have a speed cap for most of his characters currently, the existence of the Mach 3 statement/feat, plus the multitude of statements about the speed of sound being considered as extremely fast in JJK adds even more credence to this assertion.
The arguments against this haven't been that convincing, and it honestly seems like this side is just hand waving away the very blatant observation that Gege believes his verse to be in the low Mach ranges, with the consistent narrative implications, feats and statements that back up this interpretation, by using fan-made calcs which directly contradict author intent.
I completely understand the feeling of seeing a verse you really enjoy getting massively downgraded, it sucks, but this isn't an argument against the consistent narrative implications set by Gege himself.
So i completely agree with KingTempest's observation on this subject, and i agree with downgrading the speed of the verse to whatever consistent value that abides by Gege's intent.
That's all i have to say on the matter.
The arguments against this haven't been that convincing, and it honestly seems like this side is just hand waving away the very blatant observation that Gege believes his verse to be in the low Mach ranges, with the consistent narrative implications, feats and statements that back up this interpretation, by using fan-made calcs which directly contradict author intent.
I completely understand the feeling of seeing a verse you really enjoy getting massively downgraded, it sucks, but this isn't an argument against the consistent narrative implications set by Gege himself.
So i completely agree with KingTempest's observation on this subject, and i agree with downgrading the speed of the verse to whatever consistent value that abides by Gege's intent.
That's all i have to say on the matter.
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Not at all which is why you won't actually address my point.
His button changes direction meaning he squared his shoulders. You clearly see he is cocking his head to view Kashimo in the first panel and his button is facing away.
You're also ignoring that he blatantly has his right foot forward and crossed in the first panel yet in the dodge panel he is already falling backward onto his right foot. Both of those things being inconsistent if you're trying to argue Hikari was in the same position as the first panel.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,979
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tbh I don't think this is needed as a lot of this has been discussed/is being discussed in this one
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Why would you create a new thread with this one going? Especially while also completely ignoring other side in this thread. Seems pretty dishonest.
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Yall wanna call everything dishonest and ill-intentioned. He just wanted to create a more organized thread since the OP in this one is lackluster
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Several mods have yet to make their final point. He also conveniently forgot to "organize" the counterarguments in this thread. So yes, if the intention was to better organize the debates for clarity, he should have involved all relevant information, not just the info that suits his side.
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The OP is meant to prove a point, he isn't obligated to defend a point he doesn't agree with, AKA providing counterarguments against his point. That's not his job. Regardless, it isn't a point of argument, just request for the thread to close
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It is when the whole purpose of a new thread is to "reorganize information". Anyone coming into this thread can read both sides and decide if they agree with OP after the pages of debate spent.
But ok.
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