Jujutsu Kaisen Downgrade

[Dr._whiteee]

No, there is, people just fail to see it.

That's kind of ironic, given you are ignoring a litany of feats and the author's own admission of sympathizing with people questioning his speed scale.

Even if you want to discuss movement speed we have Panda being able to dip the AOE of Jogo's meteor despite Sukuna forbidding them from running from it until the last second. If you're arguing in good faith you should be able to address why these feats are inaccurate.

 

[Chariot190]

Damn yall can't argue. I needa come back for this, cause this is something I wanted implemented even far before this statement came out.

Exponents and attack potency do not work. The black flash counter is dogshit.

Tons^2 would be Squared Tons, while we only measure in regular tons. Same with Squared Joules and such.
It needs a specific unit that is used in the statement for it to be applicable, not just a squared statement.

Shit, the author only used squared because the number would be higher. He doesn't even know what he's talking about in itself. What if the yield is 1 ton like you guys said?

It'd be 1 squared ton, which we don't work with.

Black Flash doesn't work because we can't quantify it. You can't square energy unless you have a stagnant unit.

Now when it comes to the consistency of their slow ass speed, I'm appalled by how you guys don't know your verse and you think that the calcs are more consistent.

1. Hanami's buds couldn't travel a close distance in 0.01 seconds. That's not hypersonic.
2. Naobito's Projection Sorcery of covering melee distances in 1/24 seconds. Next to Gojo, he's the fastest Jujutsu Sorcerer, which means every other Jujutsu Sorcerer is below him. He was blitzing Dagon, and stated to be possibly faster than Jogo. Consistent, they say "he's the fastest" while Gojo is sealed..
3. Naoya's Cursed Technique lets him track movement at 1/24 seconds each. This means that his regular reactions are inferior. This means that his speed is inferior when he's shown to not cover large distances in those timeframes. Yuji calls him fast.
4. Piercing Blood is canonically shown to be faster than sound by its sonic boom, then it progressively gets slower. Can conclude that it goes to below the speed of sound after its initial fire.
5. His peak speed (it's his peak speed) is stated to be supersonic, and the context is implying that everything else he's done isn't supersonic.
6. Naoya and Naobito's victim is frozen for 1 second if they don't move at a specific timeframe of 1/24 seconds. Maki doesn't even move that, and she's frozen. Naoya couldn't even cover that melee distance in a single second. It's consistent.
7. They blatantly say he moves faster than the speed of sound, and they imply that they can't. "If he moves at the speed of sound, we'll prepare".
8. He gets to Mach 3.

They are consistently not impressive in speed. So please stop with the narrative that they're consistently MHS

Oof, put me at neutral I guess.

I thought it was a one or two off statement against a bunch of feats. Seems to be closer than thought.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i think theres consistency on both ends, even without calcs.

multiple explosion dodging (even in this arc with megumi), early feats of bullet reactions with maki and later geto, gojo's explosion/sound reaction, 15 finger sukuna's fast travel speed, hakari reacting to lightning that is as close you can get to irl lightning without clouds, etc

and of course the subsonic-mach 3 range, of which also has many examples

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

"Subsonic, possible hypersonic (Or whatever rating)"?

 

[Duedate8898]

You mean the vague "he reacted" arguments? "He reacted, and it can't be that much slower".

"She cut bullets" ignores the fact that it's still in the air if the speed of the bullet she intercepted is valid.
"He dodged piercing blood's faster than sound movement and it's hypersonic" even though he called it fast. The calc makes him over 10x the speed of the projectile he dodged when he calls it fast.

There's context that's being ignored in his point. Read the chapters and look at the logic of the feat.

I did, I've been going through these chapters constantly over this.
The speed for the bullet has been considered valid for a while now. Hence why it's in use on the profiles in the first place. Not to mention, unless the bullets she's blocking aren't bullets at all, even rubber ones, then she'd have to be in the ballpack of subsonic to react to and block them.

And I don't know why but people seem to also ignore in this argument but also use is distance. How far something is when its heading towards you can make even attacks slower than you able to tag simply due to it being closer. And as much as I hate to argue this since it's a language thing, it's also been said and translated by a member of the community here (I assume) that PB exceeds the speed of sound so we have no truly confirmed speed for the attack. Not to mention, we can't really ignore the fact that three separate characters (one of which the arguments for this downgrade is coming from) were able to react to and block this very at the least, supersonic attack.

Piercing blood is the speed of an attack which was stated to be fast by Yuji, while when injured, he could keep up with an amped Choso just fine.

Yuji says "it's fast only when it's first fired". For an attack that's noted because it's faster than sound for a little bit, there is very much a large

You keep considering it a single statement. There are like 6.''

For a hypersonic movement in the 1/24 seconds timeframe we get multiple times, you'd need to move 71.4583333333 meters for it to be hypersonic. These dudes barely move 1.
A person repeatedly being compared to sound and low end machs.
The timeframe of Hanami's attack.
Not a single thing here was countered.

Hanami's buds time frame doesn't work, cause how close they were to Todo before they hit is up in the air. Not to mention, seeing as Todo reacted to them, there's no inference that this limits their speeds since Todo and Hanami were able to react in that given timeframe. There's no establishing of an upper limit with the buds to speed of any of these characters.

Something which hasn't been brought up about Projection Sorcery is that one, it only limits travel speed since the characters have to make 24 movements a second. Even if the characters placement is limited, the speed of their own attacks and reactions aren't. Especially since, movements isn't a unit of distance, it's action. Not to mention, how Noaya is talking in that scene, he's not talking about his reactions, he's talking about his own movement. He says, "My cursed techinque traces movement at 24 fps, so it's no problem for me to move despite being in this bind." So that doesn't function as support for an upper limit in speed either.

I literally linked you a scan, showing piercing blood maintaining its supersonic speed, after the start, but here you go again in case you or anyone else missed it. The speed drop Yuji mentioned, is clearly about the follow up attacks that Choso utilizes after firing PB.

The peak speed is a flat-out statement, so I won't deny it.

With the above stated, the scan you provided for Maki being frozen is flatout incorrect because we know what it looks when something gets frozen by Projection Sorcery, they turn into a frame. Maki wasn't frozen there at all, cause we then see her strike Naoyo, whose going at least supersonic speeds, right after that panel so clearly, she can react in that timeframe of which Naoya is operating.

The implication that they can't isn't even supported within that same chapter, since we're shown Kamino blocking his supersonic punch.

And the mach 3 statement is the other flatout support I can't deny.

Of your six instances, only two give explicit speeds which would limit these characters.

It seems like you very much are ignoring my entire post bringing up why the speed of sound isn't in the ballpark of these characters. Shit, I brought up more instances which were flat out ignored and took as "oh he's coping, go back to retirement".

And they were ignored because most of them don't support what you're saying, and because we have several more instances which further contradict them.

 

[KingTempest]

That's kind of ironic, given you are ignoring a litany of feats and the author's own admission of sympathizing with people questioning his speed scale.

Even if you want to discuss movement speed we have Panda being able to dip the AOE of Jogo's meteor despite Sukuna forbidding them from running from it until the last second. If you're arguing in good faith you should be able to address why these feats are inaccurate.

Nobody is ignoring feats, so stop saying I am. I'm saying that they don't hold weight to the author. Consider them but measure their use.

There is a difference between ignoring and denying. We take them into consideration. We're trying to DENY THEM. So stop saying I'm ignoring feats like you guys are.

I did, I've been going through these chapters constantly over this.
The speed for the bullet has been considered valid for a while now. Hence why it's in use on the profiles in the first place. Not to mention, unless the bullets she's blocking aren't bullets at all, even rubber ones, then she'd have to be in the ballpack of subsonic to react to and block them.

Something that's debatable and seemingly won in a debate can be shat on by consistency issues later.

Someone can bring up the speed of a slash and say "assume they swing as fast as the average baseball player", then use it in a calc.
If later anti-feats contradict it, then we deny that previous assumption. Maybe the assumption was already accepted. If it's contradicted later, boom.

And I don't know why but people seem to also ignore in this argument but also use is distance. How far something is when its heading towards you can make even attacks slower than you able to tag simply due to it being closer. And as much as I hate to argue this since it's a language thing, it's also been said and translated by a member of the community here (I assume) that PB exceeds the speed of sound so we have no truly confirmed speed for the attack. Not to mention, we can't really ignore the fact that three separate characters (one of which the arguments for this downgrade is coming from) were able to react to and block this very at the least, supersonic attack.

The one that's stated to be supersonic in the beginning? We have no proof that it's supersonic meters away.

Frankly I don't care about the latter. My issue for one of the supports for the value isn't that the result gives hypersonic results, but that Yuji is 11x faster.

People said "Yuji has a hypersonic calc with piercing blood", and they ignore that the calc has him 11x faster than the attack. It doesn't matter the base speed, the calculation put Yuji to 11x whatever piercing blood is at.

So Yuji's piercing blood calc can't be used, because Yuji isn't that much faster than it. Shit, he's not faster than it at all.

Hanami's buds time frame doesn't work, cause how close they were to Todo before they hit is up in the air. Not to mention, seeing as Todo reacted to them, there's no inference that this limits their speeds since Todo and Hanami were able to react in that given timeframe. There's no establishing of an upper limit with the buds to speed of any of these characters.

That does not matter at all.

We can visibly see the distance covered. They hit him after that 0.01 timeframe was up, noted by the impact marks on the next panel. That means that in that 0.01 timeframe, they didn't hit him yet, since he deactivated his cursed energy after that 0.01 timeframe and they didn't hit him yet, as Hanami said "he deactivated his cursed energy in the last second" after that timeframe was up.

If it was truly any noticeable speed, then it would've hit him before the 0.01 timeframe was up, which it did not. We don't need to know its traveled distance approximately, because we can visibly see that it didn't travel a distance that'd make it faster than a car on a highway.

Something which hasn't been brought up about Projection Sorcery is that one, it only limits travel speed since the characters have to make 24 movements a second. Even if the characters placement is limited, the speed of their own attacks and reactions aren't. Especially since, movements isn't a unit of distance, it's action. Not to mention, how Noaya is talking in that scene, he's not talking about his reactions, he's talking about his own movement. He says, "My cursed techinque traces movement at 24 fps, so it's no problem for me to move despite being in this bind." So that doesn't function as support for an upper limit in speed either.

Excuse me?

What in the uselessness.

Do you not comprehend the concept of 1/24 fps?

This means that every 0.0416666667 seconds, they'd need to make a single movement.

This means that at the very least, they should be able to cover a decent distance to harm their target, like a kick for every 24th second, something they can't do.

If they want to travel a meter at hypersonic speeds, they'd need to move a meter in 0.000583 seconds. Why is this impressive in contexts of the verse. Even Maki notes that alongside his speed.

The timeframe for the 1/24 m/s movement is over 70 times larger than the timeframe to move a meter at hypersonic speeds, then this means that these guys are reacting to 24 m/s punches.

I literally linked you a scan, showing piercing blood maintaining its supersonic speed, after the start, but here you go again in case you or anyone else missed it. The speed drop Yuji mentioned, is clearly about the follow up attacks that Choso utilizes after firing PB.

What?

Ok it's faster, but the drop is now not about piercing blood?
The translation PowerToScale sent quite blatantly says at the bottom.

The initial speed of the blood enhanced by the spell exceeds the speed of sound

If its initial speed is that fast, then it implies that every movement after is slower. It can be slower and still be supersonic, and it also says that its speed isn't stagnant and that more pressure can amp it.

The greater the pressure of "Byakuren", the greater the speed and penetration power of "Senketsu"

So please don't use that one off moment where we see multiple sonic booms as the justification for every piercing blood thrown in the series, especially when it has only had more than 1 sonic boom from 1 fire throughout the entire series.

With the above stated, the scan you provided for Maki being frozen is flatout incorrect because we know what it looks when something gets frozen by Projection Sorcery, they turn into a frame. Maki wasn't frozen there at all, cause we then see her strike Naoyo, whose going at least supersonic speeds, right after that panel so clearly, she can react in that timeframe of which Naoya is operating.

Fine

The implication that they can't isn't even supported within that same chapter, since we're shown Kamino blocking his supersonic punch.

He didn't, because he wasn't supersonic then.
He only became supersonic after he used his peak speed, and when Kamino needed a ballpark of his speed, Maki brought up the speed he was at in their fight in 151, faster than sound.

Naoya then sped up far to Mach 3.

Of your six instances, only two give explicit speeds which would limit these characters.

The 0.01 second movement.
Covering a meter in 0.04 seconds being impressive.
Multiple sonic boom only being shown in one instance, and in other instances it's not shown.
Naoya's peak speed being supersonic and everything else under mach 1.
Naoya being faster than sound and Maki and Noritoshi imply that they're under it. "If he's faster than sound, then we'll prepare", implying that they're not faster than sound.
Naoya's slower than sound speed fast enough to tag them.
Naoya's Mach 3

And they were ignored because most of them don't support what you're saying, and because we have several more instances which further contradict them.

They all support what I'm saying, yall just didn't notice the point

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Downgrade time

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Nobody is ignoring feats, so stop saying I am. I'm saying that they don't hold weight to the author. Consider them but measure their use.

There is a difference between ignoring and denying. We take them into consideration. We're trying to DENY THEM. So stop saying I'm ignoring feats like you guys are.

Feats are from the author, so no, your assertion that they mean nothing to the author is incorrect. This is also backed up by the author's sentiments themselves. Ignoring the literal physics happening on panel is pretty much denying.

You keep making an artificial distinction between calced feats and the "author" which is also invalid. The feats are obviously drawn by the author themselves and can indicate different things. Reacting to an explosion is always going to net results higher than because, by default, all explosions (detonations) are supersonic+ at a bare minimum (about 1000 m/s; distinguishing it from deflagration). So while yes the specific results may be fan calced, it doesn't change the fact that Gege threw in phenomena that is blatantly faster than sound into the manga, calcs or not.

 

[KingTempest]

Feats are from the author, so no, your assertion that they mean nothing to the author is incorrect. This is also backed up by the author's sentiments themselves. Ignoring the literal physics happening on panel is pretty much denying.

You keep making an artificial distinction between calced feats and the "author" which is also invalid. The feats are obviously drawn by the author themselves and can indicate different things. Reacting to an explosion is always going to net results higher than because, by default, all explosions (detonations) are supersonic+ at a bare minimum (about 1000 m/s; distinguishing it from deflagration). So while yes the specific results may be fan calced, it doesn't change the fact that Gege threw in phenomena that is blatantly faster than sound into the manga, calcs or not.

I'm laughing my absolute ass off, when you guys are ignoring the author when good for your meta.

Did I say Gege never threw in phenomena faster than sound? No. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm not a fan of that. I said that the sound shit is more consistent.

The feats are drawn by the author, but the feats are calced by the fandom. How many calcs are there for the bullet catch? How many calcs are there for the meteor? Authors don't draw to scale all the time, and that's the issue with pixel calcs found on this damn wiki itself.

Calculation Guide

A calculation (referred to as calc for short) is a method of determining a statistic (referred to as stat for short) of a character (usually Attack Potency or Speed) in cases where it cannot be directly determined. It makes use of scientific formulae and mathematical equations to calculate any...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Of course, not everything is that simple. Even calculations have their own drawbacks. For one, calculations generally involve pixel scaling (more of that later on) which is hard to measure and utilize.

However, there are some flaws in Pixel Scaling, such as the fact that we measure feats in 3 dimensions, while scans of comics and manga are 2 dimensional, that is why we need to make sure that every object we scale must be in close proximity to our measuring stick.

I'm appalled by you guys who swear you're mangaka and know every thought behind the mangaka.
"They need to measure to scale" go find every Yuji panel and calc his head's size. You'll get something drastically different.

You're clearly not reading my argument. Never have I countered those points. I never spoke about the electricity, the explosion dodge, and a few others, because those are valid feats. I just said there's a more consistent meta.

I'm countering the bullet, the 0.01 second issue, the piercing blood, and more. So frankly I don't give a **** about your handful of feats that have 15 different results per feat, I'm countering what doesn't need pixelscaling.

"Reacting to explosions this much speed yadayada all the time don't need fan calc blatantly supersonic".
Okay.
Via common sense, those buds are slower than a car on a highway, since they couldn't cover melee distance in 0.01 seconds.

 

[Arkenis]

Yes, most of the mid tiers are subsonic. lets not complicate the scaling and ignore blatant statements that the author clearly wants portraying the verse as.

On the other hand, people who scale to Hakari and Kashimo via feats should be given Mhs+.

 

[KingTempest]

Yes, most of the mid tiers are subsonic. lets not complicate the scaling and ignore blatant statements that the author clearly wants portraying the verse as.

On the other hand, people who scale to Hakari and Kashimo via feats should be given Mhs+.

This is a problem, when the absolute fastest mf in the series next to Gojo falls under the 1/24 bullshit, AKA under MHS

 

[Arkenis]

I will say, considering the amount of science and physics Gege tries to shove in our face and yet can't understand basic speed and reaction feats is hilarious.

 

[Arkenis]

This is a problem, when the absolute fastest mf in the series next to Gojo falls under the 1/24 bullshit, AKA under MHS

Who actually scales to Gojo in speed? With feats, not chain scaling that Gege can literally contradict whenever they want

 

[KingTempest]

Who actually scales to Gojo in speed? With feats, not chain scaling that Gege can literally contradict whenever they want

Nobody at all, because it's quite frankly said that Gojo is the fastest Jujutsu Sorcerer, and when he's sealed, the runner up (who blitzes every Cursed Spirit he fights) is stated to be the fastest period

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I'm laughing my absolute ass off, when you guys are ignoring the author when good for your meta.

We're not ignoring the author. The supersonic statements from both techniques are explicitly the subject of our arguments. The point is which is more consistent in the manga. You keep bringing up the same instances from those two techniques, which is circular logic. Your only other instance is Todo and Hanami's projectiles not being hypersonic has absolutely no implications on the greater JjK at all. So your one example outside of feats from author's statement (which is really only one since piercing blood exceeded sound) doesn't really mean much. Meanwhile, our side has a plethora of feats.

Did I say Gege never threw in phenomena faster than sound? No. So don't put words in my mouth. I'm not a fan of that. I said that the sound shit is more consistent.

But that's objectively false. Discuss this without using the speed of sound statement, as once again, the contention is if that is consistent within the manga as being the absolute bridge for top tiers. Given the amount of evidence against this you should have some really strong evidence outside of PB and PS.

The feats are drawn by the author, but the feats are calced by the fandom. How many calcs are there for the bullet catch? How many calcs are there for the meteor?

This means nothing. Calcs are an acceptable form of measurement for this wiki given review. Not only that, but you literally just skirted over my whole argument. Calcs don't matter. I don't need a calc to tell me that a certain phenomenon is > speed of sound. So, the feats are all that truly matter at the end of the day.

This is like saying real-life explosion values can't be used because multiple people have done the same tests and may not have exactly congruent answers. Once again, even assuming the rubber bullet, the speed would still be 220 m/s which would still make Maki's feat supersonic+. With or without calcs.

Authors don't draw to scale all the time, and that's the issue with pixel calcs found on this damn wiki itself.

Calculation Guide

A calculation (referred to as calc for short) is a method of determining a statistic (referred to as stat for short) of a character (usually Attack Potency or Speed) in cases where it cannot be directly determined. It makes use of scientific formulae and mathematical equations to calculate any...

vsbattles.fandom.com

And in those instance these things are raised as concerns in the calc proper. They are still professional artists putting out a product. So no, were not gonna act like they don't know about scale and composition, nor act like they don't have editors to proofread their art, nor act like it even matters as the finished drawn product is what we have to utilize.

You're clearly not reading my argument. Never have I countered those points. I never spoke about the electricity, the explosion dodge, and a few others, because those are valid feats. I just said there's a more consistent meta.

What is your indicator of consistency? The supersonic stuff mostly comes from Naoya and Choso who came along in the same stretch of time in which the supersonic statements came along. JjK was hypersonic before and continues to produce hypersonic to massively hypersonic feats after the first introduction of piercing blood. So clearly, it isn't as if Gege was making an effort to establish the supersonic stuff given he continued to produce faster feats. So certainly timeframe consistency is not in your favor.

It's not quantity of incidence either, as there are for more feats of supersonic+ - hypersonic feats that feats that would indicate a mach 3 cap.

So what metrics are you using?

I'm countering the bullet, the 0.01 second issue, the piercing blood, and more. So frankly I don't give a **** about your handful of feats that have 15 different results per feat, I'm countering what doesn't need pixelscaling.

That's not true. I don't need pixel scaling to tell me that an explosion is hypersonic. I don't need pixel scaling to tell me how fast a bullet is. I don't need pixel scaling to tell me that lightning speed is >>> sonic speed. You keep strawmanning the calculation process while being painfully unaware that it doesn't matter. We don't need the result to tell us these speeds far surpass the speed of sound. In the same way that seeing someone create a sonic boom doesn't require you to calc anything to say it's mach speed. Certain speeds can be relatively placed based on the process that caused them.

So you ignoring these feats and treating them as qualitatively lesser is another lapse in proper reasoning on your end as your throwing the baby out with the bath water concerning the feats and the calcs.

"Reacting to explosions this much speed yadayada all the time don't need fan calc blatantly supersonic".
Okay.
Via common sense, those buds are slower than a car on a highway, since they couldn't cover melee distance in 0.01 seconds.

Okay. Even if that's true and not a lapse from Gege, what does that mean? Are Hanami's flower buds indicative of the reaction speed of sorcerers? I don't understand how you think this proves your point that sorcs are capped at mach 3, especially with all of the anti evidence.

 

[KingTempest]

We're not ignoring the author. The supersonic statements from both techniques are explicitly the subject of our arguments. The point is which is more consistent in the manga. You keep bringing up the same instances from those two techniques, which is circular logic. Your only other instance is Todo and Hanami's projectiles not being hypersonic has absolutely no implications on the greater JjK at all. So your one example outside of feats from author's statement (which is really only one since piercing blood exceeded sound) doesn't really mean much. Meanwhile, our side has a plethora of feats.

You mean the buds that blitzed Megumi? Who in prior states could react to superior characters like Todo, who scales in speed to damn near half the cast?

I'm not entertaining you no more. I brought all that evidence and you pretty much went with "lightning, explosion, haaaa". I don't care anymore about your argument.

I brought a plethora of evidence and you just ignored it for the buds.

The 0.01 second movement.
Covering a meter in 0.04 seconds being impressive.
Multiple sonic boom only being shown in one instance, and in other instances it's not shown.
Naoya's peak speed being supersonic and everything else under mach 1.
Naoya being faster than sound and Maki and Noritoshi imply that they're under it. "If he's faster than sound, then we'll prepare", implying that they're not faster than sound.
Naoya's slower than sound speed fast enough to tag them.
Naoya's Mach 3

It's clear you didn't read it. So unless you read it, I'm not entertaining it. Good day everybody

 

[Dr._whiteee]

You mean the buds that blitzed Megumi? Who in prior states could react to superior characters like Todo, who scales in speed to damn near half the cast?

Yes? Did you read the scene?

Megumi was blatantly caught off guard and muses to himself that he ****** up by striking wrong, and Hanami also states that Maki has superior reflexes and blocked it. At this point, Maki herself wasn't even at high tier, and she herself was very much so > Megumi at this point physically.

You mean Todo who casually beat him senseless and literally began the fight blitzing Megumi several times? The first time Megumi gets a break from being blitzed is after catching Todo with a frog. So yeah not seeing how that helps you.

I'm not entertaining you no more. I brought all that evidence and you pretty much went with "lightning, explosion, haaaa". I don't care anymore about your argument.

What argument have you presented? The one above is the only one that can be used since I am literally arguing that those should be used due to inconsistency. So no, you didn't bring anything lmao. You have just reiterated the information we already know. Outside of the Hanami argument you've done nothing to substantiate your claim or touch on why the umpteen instances we have are less consistent.

But ok.

It's clear you didn't read it. So unless you read it, I'm not entertaining it. Good day everybody

Actually, I felt DueDate already addressed these points well enough in his response to you.

You also keep using circular logic.

This is also one instance. If you count PB as two (which you shouldn't given the RAWS) that is two instances of supersonic speed. Which is nothing compared to our side, and you still have yet to discuss what metrics you are using to determine that mach 3 cap for the verse is more consistent than our evidence.

But, got it, good day.

 

[Jibz]

Ngl from everything I've seen, I think the author is just a ******* idiot and doesn't comprehend what any of this means,

This is what powerscaling does to a mf

 

[Chariot190]

This is what powerscaling does to a mf

I'm pretty sure most people in general comprehend basics like that, not just those in this hobby.

 

[Gitagon]

I'm pretty sure most people in general comprehend basics like that, not just those in this hobby.

Nah, your statement just shows how rotten the power scaling community is as a whole.

 

[Nierre]

Very fun discussion y'all.

Kept me entertained. I'll stay neutral ^^ good luck to both sides

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Nah, your statement just shows how rotten the power scaling community is as a whole.

Oda making characters that can withstand mountain sized punches almost die from pistol shots

 

[Fikriskps]

Oda making characters that can withstand mountain sized punches almost die from pistol shots

Lol

 

[Jibz]

I'm pretty sure most people in general comprehend basics like that, not just those in this hobby.

good lord it gets worse

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Man, seeing people say Gege, an author who clearly tries to put at least some thought into their fights and scaling, even their complicated as **** power system, an idiot because they gave a hard cap on speed that even THEY acknowledges as weird, is kinda ****** up

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

"He"

Whatever anyway

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

I'm pretty sure most people in general comprehend basics like that, not just those in this hobby.

Please go outside and interact with a human in the real world

 

[Kingofwolves999]

"He"

Whatever anyway

Fixed, didn’t really know their preferred pronouns so made it neutral since it’s unknown

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Okay, getting heated. If the calcs needs to being reevaluated in specific assumptions being used or not as well as needing a recalc, that is a different issue altogether.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Fixed, didn’t really know their preferred pronouns so made it neutral since it’s unknown

Meh
There is no need
This son of a bitch's gender is an endless bipolarity

 

[Ayewale]

I feel like if this thread was inverted there would be no debate.

"Though the fan-calcs have generally put the series at around Mach 3 speeds, in-universe statements put them around Massively Hypersonic levels."

I'd imagine this would go over very smoothly, and there's probably quite a few verses whose tiers and ratings operate off this exact logic.

So why is it okay to use author statements to buff characters but not okay to use author statements to nerf them?

 

[Arkenis]

I feel like if this thread was inverted there would be no debate.

"Though the fan-calcs have generally put the series at around Mach 3 speeds, in-universe statements put them around Massively Hypersonic levels."

I'd imagine this would go over very smoothly, and there's probably quite a few verses whose tiers and ratings operate off this exact logic.

So why is it okay to use author statements to buff characters but not okay to use author statements to nerf them?

Because debaters can not stand the fact a verse they scale/like is actually not as fast as they want it to be.

 

[Ayewale]

Anyways, as for my thoughts on the actual thread, it seems like there is no hard wiki policy on in-universe statements versus feats. There's generally a slant towards 'feats take precedence' but there's enough wiggle room for this thread to exist.

I think completely disregarding in-universe statements that aren't fantastically inconsistent isn't fair. People have brought up comparisons from other verses but all of those examples are really outlandish compared to this, which seems like a reasonable downgrade. I'm in support of downgrading the verse though the other side is making some strong arguments.

Maybe give them a 'Possibly' rating that acknowledges the calculations, too?

 

[Cyberblader90]

since there is heavy focus on Naoya and his stated speed, I would like to establish that less than 10 chapters ago (same arc) we had Hakari react to lightning near point blank, enough so it hit his arm instead. You don't need a calc for this, you cannot in good faith say Hakari dodged this at speeds slower than the recent Naoya mach 3 statement. There are plenty of other feats that dont require calcs that exist to counterbalance recent lower end statements, but I want to focus on this one as is the most recent example

He's also fast enough to eject kashimo's lightning from his brain before it can fry it. He survives partly due to his regen, but kashimo also notes he ejected it as well

He goes on to get faster with his domain bonus, as noted by kashimo

Gege brought on the science advisor for Dr Stone to assist with explaining the lightning. It is not generic anime electricity; it is the real deal.

1)Its called lightning.

2) It functions like cloud-to-ground where it attracts to a positive charge. As lightning is the negative charges in the cloud being attracted to the positive in the ground.

Kashimo splits the charges of his cursed energy, which is naturally similar to electricity. He transfers the positive charge into his opponent through a physical blow, and discharges the negative charge stored in himself towards his opponent while cancelling the discharge to the ground. this attack is a bolt of lightning that rips through the atmosphere and never misses its mark, without the need for a domain expansion.”

English version:

3) it has features of lightning/electricity such numbness/paralysis, electrolysis, electrification

 

[Fixxed]

just to make sure

"If god mode hakari is able to react to Lightning Bolt Speed then in the next chapter Hakari is only said to be faster than Mach 3 how do you respond? (If any)

 

[Damage3245]

I feel like if this thread was inverted there would be no debate.

"Though the fan-calcs have generally put the series at around Mach 3 speeds, in-universe statements put them around Massively Hypersonic levels."

I'd imagine this would go over very smoothly, and there's probably quite a few verses whose tiers and ratings operate off this exact logic.

So why is it okay to use author statements to buff characters but not okay to use author statements to nerf them?

I get the feeling you're right.

If the statement had said something like "Naoya's speed... has reached Mach 300".

Then there would most likely be a lot less opposition to basing the verse's speed on in-verse statements.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I feel like if this thread was inverted there would be no debate.

"Though the fan-calcs have generally put the series at around Mach 3 speeds, in-universe statements put them around Massively Hypersonic levels."

I'd imagine this would go over very smoothly, and there's probably quite a few verses whose tiers and ratings operate off this exact logic.

So why is it okay to use author statements to buff characters but not okay to use author statements to nerf them?

My whole point. I don't why people are still arguing over this facts

 

[Metalballrun]

I feel like if this thread was inverted there would be no debate.

"Though the fan-calcs have generally put the series at around Mach 3 speeds, in-universe statements put them around Massively Hypersonic levels."

I'd imagine this would go over very smoothly, and there's probably quite a few verses whose tiers and ratings operate off this exact logic.

So why is it okay to use author statements to buff characters but not okay to use author statements to nerf them?

Can confirm. A verse I support more or less operate on this logic.

 

[Cyberblader90]

just to make sure

"If god mode hakari is able to react to Lightning Bolt Speed then in the next chapter Hakari is only said to be faster than Mach 3 how do you respond? (If any)

i mean sure, if lightning ends up getting a statement on that end, then it wouldnt be impressive.

thing is we know gege had assistance from the science consultant from dr stone, for the chapters featuring the lightning. thats why its described so perfectly to irl lightning.

 

[Arkenis]

since there is heavy focus on Naoya and his stated speed, I would like to establish that less than 10 chapters ago (same arc) we had Hakari react to lightning near point blank, enough so it hit his arm instead. You don't need a calc for this, you cannot in good faith say Hakari dodged this at speeds slower than the recent Naoya mach 3 statement. There are plenty of other feats that dont require calcs that exist to counterbalance recent lower end statements, but I want to focus on this one as is the most recent example

He's also fast enough to eject kashimo's lightning from his brain before it can fry it. He survives partly due to his regen, but kashimo also notes he ejected it as well

He goes on to get faster with his domain bonus, as noted by kashimo

Gege brought on the science advisor for Dr Stone to assist with explaining the lightning. It is not generic anime electricity; it is the real deal.

1)Its called lightning.

2) It functions like cloud-to-ground where it attracts to a positive charge. As lightning is the negative charges in the cloud being attracted to the positive in the ground.

English version:

3) it has features of lightning/electricity such numbness/paralysis, electrolysis, electrification

So Hakari scales to it and Kashimo, not Naoya.