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Issue with Energy Equalization

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Cal seems to make the most sense. I 100% agree with him.
 
The point of "Equalization" has been being lost.

Example:

  • Someone makes a Naruto vs Ichigo thread. The point is see who'd win after accessing their abilities, skills, etc.
  • Things are equalized so that, technical things like "Reiatsu Crush" doesn't hamper the first bullet, otherwise the entire point is made null due to the technicalities of simply having a specific type of power.
So, yes, the current train of thought (@Sigurd) is affording verses like Bleach "Special Treatment", because it's allowing you to forgo the entire point of making a vs thread with 2 different characters hust to spite the other character on a technical basis. "No Reiryoku = No resistance to the Soul Fuckery the power passively gives, so GG"

If I place Max Power Jiren infront of True Shikai Ichigo, allowing the energies to simply interact allows you to claim same argument, which defeats the purpose of the match up.

The way I see it, if this is the route we're going, Vs Matches being won by Technicalities like passive abilities gained by simply having a certain energy shouldn't be allowed to be added to character pages.
 
@Final Would soul manipulation resistance not give you protection in this case?
 
I am sorry, but if you match up a Bleach character against someone who doesnt have resistance to soul manip, why should it be treated differently to any other character that has soul manip!?
 
Andytrenom said:
@Final Would soul manipulation resistance not give you protection in this case?
Click to expand...
Having a Reiatsu is not a necessary to resist crush, if you put bleach against someone from Dies Irae who already have good resistance to soul manip by default, wherever you equalized their energy or not, no one in Dies Irae will die to soul crush.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Thats just twisting the wording to grant additional powers people don't have.
Click to expand...
It does look like it. Nen Baptims forcefully mess all aura nodes or if equalized ki control to the point if the users's control is not adequated enough then they died; I don't think a similar effect should be removed from verse equalization if characters can't resist this effect

Of course, I think some Dragon Ball characters can easily control the energy and negated/resisted the effects but Nen Baptism's effects should not be removed based on verses equalization.
 
@TFO

No. Bleach isn't being afforded special treatment whatsoever. For years, inherent abilities of the characters was restricted because "it made it unfair", all the while Nihilus and co got a free pass for whatever reason. If you wanna start restricting passives again, then we have just gone back 5 years because people either dislike a verse or the power level doesn't coincide with their belief on what it should be. I guess in a Juubidara vs Goku fight, SPSM will be restricted so he doesn't null Ki based attacks like it does chakra? Who argued reiryoku is needed to resist reiatsu crush? Its argued people need soul manip resist to to resist it as thats what it is, soul manip.

If Jiren doesn't resist soul manip, he is gonna get soul crushed (so long as he is 3d) just the same as if he was put in front of Nihilus. Granting people additional passives, resistances and abilities is what defeats the purpose of the match up as you are no longer arguing what is on the profile but this caricature of them.

You call it technicalities but its actually accuracy. If an energy source passively does something like Cal power and possessing Cal power stops it from happening, that is what we call a resistance to those effects provided by the energy. Does ki/chakra/reiryoku etc possess the resistances of Cal power? No? Tough luck.
 
The difference is that to resist Reiatsu Crush, you only have to have spiritual energy and several verses have them, like Naruto himself and others. That is, it is a mechanic that exists in the verse and gives it an inherent ability, derived from the same energy that other verses have, but simply better crafted.

It's the same as asking that, to resist the Conqueror's Haki, you must have resistance to Empathic Manipulation.
"Ah, but it just takes a strong willpower."
It doesn't matter, if you have no resistance to Empathic Manipulation, you fall faint and over. It does not matter if the willpower is similar in all verses.
It is exactly the same argument here.
 
We simply just have to suspend our disbelief a bit when comparing completely different verses. Literally no one with a lick of vs debating experience says "Lol Genjutsu can't work on Renji Abarai because he doesn't have chakra".

Again, another pointless controversy but I'm glad Kukui brought it up.
 
Sera EX said:
We simply just have to suspend our disbelief a bit when comparing completely different verses. Literally no one with a lick of vs debating experience says "Lol Genjutsu can't work on Renji Abarai because he doesn't have chakra".
Again, another pointless controversy but I'm glad Kukui brought it up.
Click to expand...
Just going to come in and say I don't want any part of this thread anymore. Whether it was right or wrong of me, I still stand that I personally see this as a mistake that I shouldnt have gone through with and im sorry for any trouble ive caused.

Thats all. Wherever this thread ends up is up to everyone who is still here discussing it.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
I think the way it is now is fine and doesn't really cause many problems.
Click to expand...
Like @Sigurd Snake in The Eye, I agree. The most noteworthy example of bad energy equalization looks to happe in Bleach and Naruto's thread so bleach/naruto's arguments are relevant here.
 
I could leave this argument running in circles forever, but I will preserve the thread.

The only thing I say is ... Pay attention to every example, not just the part where it involves "Bleach".
 
For some reason my reply was deleted when I not even mentioned naruto it in but verses with spiritual power lol
 
Elizhaa said:
It does look like it. Nen Baptims forcefully mess all aura nodes or if equalized ki control to the point if the users's control is not adequated enough then they died; I don't think a similar effect should be removed from verse equalization if characters can't resist this effect

Of course, I think some Dragon Ball characters can easily control the energy and negated/resisted the effects but Nen Baptism's effects should not be removed based on verses equalization.
Click to expand...
If Nen Crush is stopped by having control over your energy

why the heck wouldn't Dragon Ball characters aka characters with mastery over their own energy be immune to it ?

Nen Baptism's effects would not removed based on verses equalization, but because of a weakness of the power
 
Other examples like Stands were provided which is also fine since extrasensory perception is a thing. Not sure about Nen but @Elizhaa had an easy to understand explanation.
 
Simply to use Bleach agin, because its a verse I know:

Character from a shonen series that uses some sort of energy Vs Bleach character

-> This should be equalized coz energies

Character from a shonen series that uses some sort of energy Vs A guy who simply uses soul manip

-> This shouldnt be equalized coz no energies

This seems incredibly unfair and nonsensical to me...
 
>Rekyou Crush is resisted by having Rakyou

>Soul Manipulation is not resisted by having Soul Manipulation

Don't you se the difference yet ?
 
Overlord775 said:
>Rekyou Crush is resisted by having Rakyou

>Soul Manipulation is not resisted by having Soul Manipulation

Don't you se the difference yet ?
Click to expand...
Umm... What? They are immune because they are resistand to soul manip, which they get from their energy.

For the second one, well yeah, duh. Not sure what u want to say with that.
 
if a character has an energy similar enought to Rakyou they wouldn't be crushed because the crush would threat by said energy the same as Rakou
 
False equivalency Overlord.

Reiatsu crush is resisted by having the same energy that grants it and resistance. Soul manip and resistance to it is not inherent to each other, soul manip and resistance are if it is gained from reiryoku.

And no. That is the whole issue that is being had. Equalizing to reiryoku does not grant the abilities that come with it.
 
Overlord775 said:
if a character has an energy similar enought to Rakyou they wouldn't be crushed because the crush would threat by said energy the same as Rakou
Click to expand...
You mean an energy that gives you resistance to soul manip? Sure, that would work. For real though, just having "an energy" doesnt justify getting resistances.
 
Unless they literally say in the serie that Reiatsu gives you resistance to getting your soul destroyed, the resistance would just be a byproduct of having the energy
 
What does is needed to have Reiryoku (is called that way, no? same as in Inuyasha)? Only certain beings have it, all any living being (either animals or plants) have it by defaut?
 
Ulquiorra literally tells Yammy that Tatsuki survived his soul manip due to having far more reiryoku than humans and that it was the only reason why she was surving his reiatsu being so close but would still die shortly. Reiryoku grants both soul manip and resistance.
 
It's a perfectly logical equivalency, not a false one. Reiatsu Crush is no-sold by having enough Reiatsu. That's a caveat of Reiatsu Crush, not a boon to users of Reiatsu. If someone has enough say, Chakra, and Chakra = Reiatsu, then the Chakra User wouldn't get Reiatsu Crushed. Many other usages of soul manipulation don't have that caveat or a similar energy. I dislike Nihilus just as much as I dislike Reiatsu Crush, but his stuff isn't resisted by having enough of an energy source. Correct me if I'm wrong because I'd be more than happy to include him here.
 
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