Issue with Energy Equalization

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

No not only Ninja have chakra. They're just the only ones who know how to use it. See Kawaki in Boruto.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Chakra in Naruto works as Chi, the physical essence of life-force (generally speaking); although, I think someone said that since ninjas are offsprings of alien, only the offspring can be affected by it, or something like that.

Idk who said that, but Ninja aren't the offspring of aliens. Chakra is also spiritual. Souls in Naruto have chakra, can utilize Chakra and Chakra interracts with the spiritual world as well, being able to interact with Spirits and connect spiritual worlds.

 

[Antoniofer]

So, only ninjas have Chakra, and only those can be affeted by Genjutsu according to the verse? Like, can't they even affect common animals with Genjutsu?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Only the ninja in the show actually have chakra, there descended from aliens. I know, it sounds like I made that up but, it's a thing

"Only red-haired people can use magic in this verse, so their magic bypasses magical defenses of non-red-haired people using magic," is what I hear when I read this, sorry.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

So, only ninjas have Chakra, and only those can be affeted by Genjutsu according to the verse? Like, can't they even affect common animals with Genjutsu?

No, every human has chakra. It's ambiguous if every animal has chskra, but summoning creatures do. Only Ninja and special creatures can actually utilize Chakra though.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

No not only Ninja, even civilians have chakra as far as I'm aware. You just need to be taught how to use it.

 

[Antoniofer]

So, in verse, what characters aren't affected by Genjutsu? Also, I guess if Chakra is spiritual based, then its more Aura than Chi.

 

[MostPowerfull]

If I'm not mistaken, all people in Naruto have the vital and spiritual energy (Yin and Yang), but only trained ninjas / people are able to mix both energies to form the chakra.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Chakra is physical and "spiritual energy" which prob means mental according to the anime. Yin is the spiritual aspect and Yang is the physical aspect of it. Some people only use the physical aspect of it and some only use the spiritual or both. Genjutsu is the spiritual aspect of it. As for what Genjutsu works on in verse I think the only times it's really failed is against Edo Kage who were pretty much undead zombies.

 

[Antoniofer]

So that's it, since Genjutsu is life-force based (trap others into illusions by manipulating their life-force I believe), naturally those who lacks of vitality (such undead) are immune. But I still wonder from where the "you need to known how to use chakra to be affected by genjutsu" came from.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

So, in verse, what characters aren't affected by Genjutsu? Also, I guess if Chakra is spiritual based, then its more Aura than Chi.

Well, genjutsu is casted by the user (Character A) inserting their Chakra into the brain of another Individual (Character B) and manipulating the chakra in Character B's Brain to mind **** them.

Everyone In Naruto is susceptible to Genjutsu. Just people are resistant to different degrees or can see through illusions. Nobody isn't really "unaffected" by it. You just assume characters without Chakra can't be affected based on How Genjutsu is casted.

And Chakra is like both Chi and Aura at once.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ok so I found these scans on the topic of genjutze

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...us#imgrc=Syns9Ml5wd6ueM&imgdii=_BXnsH6CIx1HOM

http://imgur.com/gallery/Cdmm7LD

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I think it's because that in Naruto those people pretty much have an additional biological system within their bodies. They pretty much have 2 circulatory systems and 1 is exclusively for chakra. So no Keirakukei system no genjutsu well most of them I think.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I did actually find another hiccup tho, chakra basically has it's own. blood streams in naruto, and it says you manplate chakra in a certain part of that chakra blood stream to use genjutze, but most forms of 'life energy' types of power don't have that

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I'm still looking for the scan about only the ninja having chakra tho

 

[Antoniofer]

Its more of the same, in Naruto it just make justification for the different types of effect by manipulating the different amount of chakra flows (such making striking points inhibit ones flow, causing suffocation, attacking "other place" to cause immobilization, etc).

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I do agree that techniques that interfere with the "source" of a supernatural element shouldn't function in some cases, if the series have different "sources". Like Nahiri messing with leylines to nullify Sorin's death magic; while other magical systems have what would be equated to MTG 'leylines' on their person, like Magical Circuits from Fate. Or genetic powernull/copying from My Hero Academia when powers from Worm are based on a brain connection to a moon-sized shard of a space god in another dimension.

However, general attack reflection and powernull that just attacks the magic/supernatural force in general should work as per this rule.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Its more of the same, in Naruto it just make justification for the different types of effect by manipulating the different amount of chakra flows (such making striking points inhibit ones flow, causing suffocation, attacking "other place" to cause immobilization, etc).

But wouldn't that mean it still be uneffective against an individual with a non humanoid body? Or someone with high level of body control? Or just alot of control over there energy? (As it's said they have to take control of your chakra to do it) If you equalize it with normal ki dose that mean it wouldn't work on god ki? As even people trained in how to use normal ki can't creat or manplate god key without special training?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Dargoo

Ehh if I'm understanding this correctly wouldn't this make some genjutsu ineffective outside of the verse due to them needing to target a separate circulatory system to function?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Dargoo
Ehh if I'm understanding this correctly wouldn't this make some genjutsu ineffective outside of the verse due to them needing to target a separate circulatory system to function?

No idea; I'm just giving my piece on verse interactions with stuff I already know; if the power system is based on other stuff having some element such as a soul, it should generally be accepted that for the sake of the battle the opponent has it if they would normally have it in the other verse.

 

[YungManzi]

So, only ninjas have Chakra, and only those can be affeted by Genjutsu according to the verse? Like, can't they even affect common animals with Genjutsu?

No, every human has chakra. It's ambiguous if every animal has chskra, but summoning creatures do. Only Ninja and special creatures can actually utilize Chakra though.

Summoning creatures actually don't innately have chakra like humans. They use natural energy (Sage chakra).

And if Hagoromo's backstory in the anime is anything to go off of, they've been using that since before chakra was even a thing on the planet.

 

[Antoniofer]

The "separated circulatory system" its the vitality itself; by default the vitality of beings do not have "shape", in Naruto writters just decide it to treat it as another body (and aethereal one).

Yes, in theory it may change depending of the creature (I think that Naruto even acknowledge this), but still works, but it would depends of the user's intelligence if he is capable to find the creature "strike points" or whatever. I think that controlling one own flow of vitality is no longer considered Body Control.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The "separated circulatory system" its the vitality itself; by default the vitality of beings do not have "shape", in Naruto writters just decide it to treat it as another body (and aethereal one).

Yes, in theory it may change depending of the creature (I think that Naruto even acknowledge this), but still works, but it would depends of the user's intelligence if he is capable to find the creature "strike points" or whatever. I think that controlling one own flow of vitality is no longer considered Body Control.

Umm...no hitting your chakra points for various reasons in naruto is a thing...a common thing it's ummm never implyed to be separate from the physical body as far as I'm aware.

 

[YungManzi]

Anyway, since it's partially related to this subject and we're already talking about Naruto...

Should magic mind manipulation resistance even protect someone from genjutsu? Because genjutsu is literally controlling the brain via chakra.

So, unless they can resist having their brain be tampered with, they shouldn't be able to resist it...tbh...

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Anyway, since it's partially related to this subject and we're already talking about Naruto...

Should magic mind manipulation resistance even protect someone from genjutsu? Because genjutsu is literally controlling the brain via chakra.

So, unless they can resist having their brain be tampered with, they shouldn't be able to resist it...tbh...

It's also about people using the chakra of the other person, dose that mean people resistant to others taking control of there energy would also resist it?

 

[AstralKing7]

Like someone said at the top ahvoe; only ninjas or people who have trained to mold their spiritual and physically energy can use chakra. Normal humans can still be effected from genjutsu or ninjutsu that doesn't need chakra but let's say like life force.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is the scan that explains it.

And this is how their mind manipulation works.

 

[YungManzi]

@Darkmon

Maybe? Although for sharingan genjutsu users who don't do genjutsu like that, that wouldn't be a good defense.

And you would have to have pretty decent scaling to overcome most notable genjutsu via that alone.

 

[Antoniofer]

Genjutsu = Illusion Manipulation, that power generally is generally a variation of Sense Manipulation or Perception Manipulation (sometimes its also Light Manipulation, but that isn't truly an illusion), so resistence to that would grant resistance to Genjutsu. Since Genjutsu works as some type of infection according to what is posted above, I guess some type protection against that or having their life-force twisted; additionally, characters without life-force are unaffected.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The naruto one has nothing to do with this. And metaphysical mind manip and biological mind manip are normally differentiated. (Except sharingan users, because they manipulate the mind directly).

But yeah, allowing energies to interact=/=making them the same thing. Letting A guy use his energy skill to absorb B guys energy doesn't mean he should get abilities passive to B guy.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

If you equalize it with normal ki dose that mean it wouldn't work on god ki? As even people trained in how to use normal ki can't creat or manplate god key without special training?

I feel like this should still be answered, as it's an actual example of the topic instead of trying to figure out things about the verses being used as examples.

 

[YungManzi]

Genjutsu = Illusion Manipulation, that power generally is generally a variation of Sense Manipulation or Perception Manipulation (sometimes its also Light Manipulation, but that isn't truly an illusion), so resistence to that would grant resistance to Genjutsu. Since Genjutsu works as some type of infection according to what is posted above, I guess some type protection against that or having their life-force twisted; additionally, characters without life-force are unaffected.

The problem is that you do not get resistance to biological mind manipulation via having resistance to magic mind manipulation (It wouldn't make sense for that to be the case).

And by technicality, genjutsu is biological mind manipulation.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The problem is that you do not get resistance to biological mind manipulation via having resistance to magic mind manipulation (It wouldn't make sense for that to be the case).

And by technicality, genjutsu is biological mind manipulation

Vai magic manplation with the energy of a in universe Magic Circulation system... (the actual parts of the system are shown so it is a physical part of the body as well)

 

[Antoniofer]

For instance, is not called "biological mind" (that isn't a thing), mind its by itself something immaterial, so is contradictory; call it Brain Manipulation or Grey Matter Manipulation.

Its true, if you resist Genjutsu by avoiding your chakra being manipulated then you aren't necessary resistent to Brain Manipulation; but I though you people were asking what do you need to resist Genjutsu, not what resistence you get by resisting it. If is the last case, then it depends how the character resisted it.

... I feel like this thread is turning is a Naruto discussion, when is wasn't suppossed to be that way.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Solely because it's still being discussed:

Everything that classifies as complex life in Naruto has a chakra circulatory system, because chakra is literally a necessary requirement to live; the only thing ninja are trained in is how to apply chakra beyond its usefulness as life-energy. You can easily die if something drains away all your chakra in Naruto, whether you're a trained ninja or not. Chakra absorption has been seen to kill small animals and such in the series, for instance.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Antoniofer


Well chose a different example


Orc

As a different user said, they do not uave chakra, only the ninja have chakra, animals have sage chakra, presumably normal people have sage chakra as well.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This no chakra statement you're talking about comes from the Shikamaru novel. The Boruto manga states everyone does. I'm pretty sure the Boruto manga has more leverage here.

 

[Elizhaa]

Ok, I want say this: with energy Interaction equalized from verse equalization, Naruto verse's chackra sytem can safely interact with another Verse's power system. So unless it more related to the topic of the thread, there is no need to further on this of Naruto verse's chakra topic as it turning the thread into a Naruto's discussion which is derailing the thread.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Well I think you all were deciding on the new rule before this discussion.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

So, only ninjas have Chakra, and only those can be affeted by Genjutsu according to the verse? Like, can't they even affect common animals with Genjutsu?

No, every human has chakra. It's ambiguous if every animal has chskra, but summoning creatures do. Only Ninja and special creatures can actually utilize Chakra though.

Summoning creatures actually don't innately have chakra like humans. They use natural energy (Sage chakra).
And if Hagoromo's backstory in the anime is anything to go off of, they've been using that since before chakra was even a thing on the planet.

Well, the anime is non-canon and that arc specifically is filler and "Sage Chakra" is just Chakra mixed with Nature Energy.