Issue with Dragon Ball Super's ratings

[KingPin0422]

I'll get straight to the point: there is simply no way that DBS is tier 2. At all. There are two major issues I have with it that I will address here.

First off, the universes are physically separated from each other, as the Angels have been able to travel through them. If they were separate space-time continua, physical travel through them would be impossible. The timelines running through all 12 universes only supports this.

The other issue is, of course, Infinite Zamasu. There is simply no indication that he was affecting the timeline at large, only that he was "becoming the universe" which I doubt is inherently Low 2-C. As for him spilling into the present Universe 7, that is only because of the carbon footprint left behind by the time machine, and at best it would mean that Infinite Zamasu has space-time hax.

TL;DR Everyone in DBS that is tier 2 (yes, including Zeno and Super Shenron) should be downgraded to 3-A, or High 3-A if we continue treating the World of Void as infinite.

 

[AKM sama]

The thing is, only the angels can travel through the universes. Physical travel for other beings is still impossible. They need special cubes to travel through universes.

IZ lost his time ring when his physical body was destroyed, so the carbon footprint thing doesn't matter because it was the time ring which relied on that. Also, he was overriding the law and order of the universe.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Where do people get the idea that traveling between universes means they are not different continuums?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The timeline in Dragon Ball Super is actually 2-C. It is made of several individual space-time continuums, though ones that are interconnected through a larger timeline.

 

[AKM sama]

Where do people get the idea that traveling between universes means they are not different continuums?

IKR, comics do it all the time.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But in comics they are still different continuums, too.

 

[AKM sama]

Yeah, that was my point, too.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Here we go with this again....

 

[Kaltias]

You can't travel through different universes with 3-D movement because the distance between them isn't 3-D.

Granted, it would simply mean that the angels can travel through universes, which is a fairly common power in fiction.

 

[Stefano4444]

KingPin0422, where did you get the idea that the Angels physically travel to other universes?

The Angels have show to always used the Warp ability to travel great distance, the same technique used to reach places such as the Other World and the Kaioshin Realm, realms that exist in separated dimensions.

The Angels travel to other universes to not prove that the 12 universes (or specifically the Living Worlds) must have the same space-time continuum, not when the only two methods show in the series to reach other universes were either the Cubes or the Warp technique.

For Infinite Zamasu, it was even stated that he his presence alone was enough to affecting the original timeline, that alone is a Low 2-C feat.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Beautiful Multiverse Scene From a Japanese Sci-fi Film

You can absolutely leave a universe by simply moving in a 3D direction. You just have to reach the border of the expanding fabric of space-time, and go beyond it.

It is understandably quite far-fetched, and doesn't quite make sense in real life, but this is fiction. The simple solution to such issues is just going with it

 

[Dark649]

Each time there will be a content revision board about Dragon Ball Super i always will post this from the Discussion Rules:

• Please refrain from making content revision threads on Dragon Ball Super, as recently we have received an extreme number of them and the staff has got tired of the subject due to how numerous they are. Preferably, comment on already existing threads, if you can, in order to elevate this issue.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Sorry to bother but i'll ask.

Why do people think that Jiren is stronger than IZ?Why don't they compare him to Fusion Zamasu?I mean,even If Kaio's said that he is more powerful than anyone they have ever met,why people think that Infinity Zamasu is included in that roaster.In my opinion they compared him to Fusion Zamasu,cause it is more logicall,he is at least a humanoid god and IZ is a whole universe.How can you even compare someone to a universe?I heared that in the manga Jiren is compared to Fusion Zamasu,not infinity,maby anime also follows the same logic.

It is just makes no sense to compare someone to a universe size being,especially when you don't have enough feats.

I know people are already annoyed with these DBS revisions,sorry.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Merged Zamasu is still an opponent they had to fight. Being a universe does not change that fact.

We are sick of going over the same Merged Zamasu and Jiren comparisons over and over again. At this point people are nitpicking small details in order to downgrade the characters.

 

[Dark649]

Actually in the manga Mastered SSB Goku fought evenly with Fusion Zamasu and Vegeta destroyed him with the Gamma Flash, Jiren cannot be comparable to him if he is going to overwhelm both SSB Goku and Vegeta.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"small details in order to downgrade the characters."

I don't think it is a small detail,I mean it is more accurate to compare Jiren to a god or a sayian or a human than comparing him to a universe.And honestly,there was no fight between IZ and Goku&Vegeta,they were already exhausted and just got stomped easily.I mean,no one ever directly said that Jiren >>>Infinity Zamasu,they just said that he is strongest person they have ever met if i don't forget and IZ was not a person in his state.I mean,in this wiki(i don't have something against VSB's community,no offense) people even think that heavily suppressed Jiren is stronger than IZ,even without feats,this is ridiculous.

People keep bringing these downgarde threads only because they see somehting wrong with these low2-C ratings,that is all.

@Dark649

Almost the same thing happened in the anime,Goku was somehow able to keep up with fusion zamasu,and Trunks also.That was some weird powerscaling.I read manga myself,it is a lot more interesting than anime.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You are blatantly nitpicking here.

"I don't think it is a small detail,I mean it is more accurate to compare Jiren to a god or a sayian or a human than comparing him to a universe."

You mean a universe that had it's own sensible power? Universe or not, Gods could still sense his power. You also seem to believe that this is the only reason to why we accepted Jiren as Low 2-C when we've explained before that it isn't.

"And honestly,there was no fight between IZ and Goku&Vegeta,they were already exhausted and just got stomped easily."

i.e blatantly showing that he was more than just a universe as he could execute attacks.

"they just said that he is strongest person they have ever met if i don't forget and IZ was not a person in his state."

This comment is blatant nitpicking. You are arguing "Infinite Zamasu is not a person, but a universe". It is pretty blatant that Infinite Zamasu would count as a "someone" Just because you are a universe =/= you are not someone. Especially when you were literally a being moments before. Especially seeing as this "universe" could launch attacks on his own.

"people even think that heavily suppressed Jiren is stronger than IZ,even without feats,this is ridiculous."

Because God forbid statements could not be used to upgrade a character. It is not ridiculous, it happens all the time. Many verses use this to upgrade characters, Dragon Ball is not different.

"People keep bringing these downgarde threads only because they see somehting wrong with these low2-C ratings,that is all."

People keep bringing up these downgrade threads because they don't bother to read previous revisions and discussions on this topic. We are all sick and tired of going through this shit over and over again. We even have a Discussion Rule for this. Not to mention that you are someone who continuously goes against Dragon Ball ratings over and over again, despite us continuously going back and forth with you, arguing the same points ad nauseam. At this point we are basically talking to a brick wall. It's getting annoying and tiresome.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Another dbs downgrade thread? These are getting tiresome and annoying at this point.

 

[Rikimarox2]

^ Can't you People add a temporarly Rule To not Allow Dbs Content Revision? Just for a temporary Time, As there was a Bunch of these Lately.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

We already have a rule for it:

"Please refrain from making content revision threads on Dragon Ball Super, as recently we have received an extreme number of them and the staff has got tired of the subject due to how numerous they are. Preferably, comment on already existing threads, if you can, in order to elevate this issue."

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's just that people don't bother to read the rules nor previous revision threads. Or they just flat out ignore the rules and post anyway.

 

[Ryukama]

The timeline in Dragon Ball Super is actually 2-C. It is made of several individual space-time continuums, though ones that are interconnected through a larger timeline.

^ This exactly.

Also Jiren is stated 4 times to the stronger than Infinite Zamasu, one of these times being WoG. Characters who shrugged off Infinite Zamasu's power freaked out when they felt Jiren's suppressed energy. Jiren > Infinite Zamasu. Suggesting otherwise is simply being in denial.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

^Is it explicitly stated that he is stronger tha Infinity Zamasu?

@Dragonmasterxyz

You are free to close all these downgrade threads if rules allow.I read everything you wrote and can not agree with you.People will still continue to argue about this low2C rating no matter how much rules you create.

@Ryukama

So,now 2-C heavily suppressed Jiren i guess?

Edit:You can close this thread if you wish.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

More Zamasu fans unable to accept that a cheaply animated face in the sky who only appears to be rendered pathetic by Zeno isn't the strongest Dragon Ball villain.

 

[Ryukama]

Yes Jiren even when heavily suppressed is stronger than Infinite Zamasu.

Goku's finger became stronger than Frieza in the Android Saga. Cell fodderized the Androids. Cell was fodder by the time Buu came along. Buu Saga tiers became jokes by the beginning of Super.

Why are people so unbelievably flabbergasted that Infinite Zamasu ended up getting surpassed by later villains? This has happened to literally every DB villain in the past. Piccolo and Tien were God Tiers at once point. It's to be expected in the most notorious escalation shounen ever.

 

[Ryukama]

More Zamasu fans unable to accept that a cheaply animated face in the sky who only appears to be rendered pathetic by Zeno isn't the second strongest Dragon Ball character who's infinity^infinity times stronger than every other person fusioned together.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

^Cause difference between 3-A and low2-C is huge,larger than difference between 4-B Buu and 4-B Cell.And lack of feats.

@Matthew Schroeder

Zamas>>>>>Ningen.

 

[Ryukama]

Now I respect anyone's opinion of course. Everyone is entitled to think how they want and I won't think any less of them for it. No offense is at all intended to anyone who believes IZ > Jiren. But I think with how much there is to support Jiren being stronger than IZ, that there is no issue with rating him as such.

 

[Ryukama]

"Cause difference between 3-A and low2-C is huge,larger than difference between 4-B Buu and 4-B Cell.

That's literally just incredulity. You can't believe Jiren is Low 2-C because it's such a high rating. if Infinite Zamasu wasn't Tier 2, you'd have no issue accepting that Jiren is stronger than him?

"And lack of feats."

Grand Priest has no feats of busting the universe with his punches. Therefore SSG Goku and Beerus are stronger than him.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I am the biggest dragon ball downplayer/opponent on the site.

Even I think this is a little bit of stretch, to put it nicely.

I agree with Ryu, Matt, Dragon etc.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

^I am a big DB fan and I don't downplay DB.,it is just how I see their power lvl.

"if Infinite Zamasu wasn't Tier 2, you'd have no issue accepting that Jiren is stronger than him?"

Only and only if it is clearly stated that he is stronger than IZ and has some feats that support this statement,no some shit like "he is the strongest person we have ever met",Momoshiki for example is stated multiple times that he is superior to Kaguya and can trash her,but i am not willing to upgrade him to 5-A cause of this,even Kaguya feared him a lot.

"Grand Priest has no feats of busting the universe with his punches. Therefore SSG Goku and Beerus are stronger than him."

Whis clearly stated that GP is superior to him,and Whis is superior to Beerus and on and on.

 

[Ryukama]

Jiren is the strongest opponent they ever faced. Infinite Zamasu is an opponent they faced. Therefore Jiren > Infinite Zamasu. It's not rocket science.

Also the fact that Beerus and Whis actually felt Infinite Zamasu's energy, thought little of it, yet freaked out over Jiren and UI's power.

Also why does Whis stating that Grand Priest is stronger than him hold so much weight, yet literal Word of God stating Jiren is stronger than Infinite Zamasu, plus 3 other statements, plus Whis and Beerus being less impressed by IZ than Jiren mean nothing?

 

[ByAsura]

@King Pin

Except Whis has traveled to the Universe 11 Kaio realm with Movement. Also, we actually see Vados travel out of Universe 7, and it looks literally like he passed through a barrier. My point here is Angels can do things that aren't conventionally possible with movement techniques. It's also heavily implied Zeno's guards do this, who are shown to have the same movement thing.

Edit: I'll be a minute, also posting proof that the DB macrocosm can't be accessed, no less the dimensions apart from that.

"The World Beyond, a location also called the Heavenly Realm, can generally only be entered by dead people, and Kami".

"Ordinary lifeforms cannot freely travel from the Living World to the World Beyond. The only way to go is by turning into souls upon death. However, there are some who are given permission to travel by the Kami of the World Beyond, though they are few in number".

"Of course, under important circumstances where the fate of the universe is at stake, they sometimes interfere with both the World Beyond and the Living World. Beings from the World Beyond or the Living World are not permitted to enter here. Without the highest level of Shunkan Idou ability, movement [to and from] is impossible".

Here's the source.

This has already been discussed on another thread, so i won't get into that part.

@Dz

He's the strongest villain, they state he has far more energy than everyone else twice, and they call him the most powerful multiple multiple times, Beerus and Whis are also far more dumbfounded at his level of energy. There's no need for confirmation.

Edit: Ryuk got there first.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"Jiren is the strongest opponent they ever faced. Infinite Zamasu is an opponent they faced. Therefor Jiren > Infinite Zamasu. It's not rocket science."

Maby this is a stupid question but,how are you going to test the power of your opponent if you got trashed immediately?

"Also the fact that Beerus and Whis actually felt Infinite Zamasu's energy, thought little of it, yet freaked out over Jiren and UI's power."

Yeah....felt Zamasu's power....from a different timeline....

"Also why does Whis stating that Grand Priest is stronger than him hold so much weight, yet literal Word of God stating Jiren is stronger than Infinite Zamasu, plus 3 other statements, plus Whis and Beerus being less impressed by IZ than Jiren mean nothing?"

Maby cause Beerus never met IZ?I mean,he just felt IZ's power from a different timeline and Jiren was just standing several meters away from him.

Different timeline>infinity>Several meters.

 

[ByAsura]

It's called Ki Sensing, a big plot point in DB.

No, after he went into U7.

Head canon, which is also because of the creators also showing it.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Maby this is a stupid question but,how are you going to test the power of your opponent if you got trashed immediately?"

They could still sense his energy.

"Yeah....felt Zamasu's power....from a different timeline...."

Yes, but his power was also leaking into the present timeline. There was not a different reaction.

"Maby cause Beerus never met IZ?I mean,he just felt IZ's power from a different timeline and Jiren was just standing several meters away from him."

But guess who was right there? Shin AND Elder Kai. Yet they still considered Jiren stronger. And the simple fact is that they sensed his power directly. Not to mention other sources confirm this.

 

[HST_Master]

Was gonna comment, but Dragon and Ryu got this covered

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Shin,a guy who was afraid of Pui Pui,seriously Shin is impressed with everything.

"Yes, but his power was also leaking into the present timeline. There was not a different reaction."

"They could still sense his energy."

It was just leaking while he himself still remained in different timeline,there is a huge difference,that was only a little fraction of his powerit is like a vulcan erupton in one side of the planet and reaction of other side(or a similar example).Of course no one is going to give a s*** about it since it doesn't threaten them.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Shin,a guy who was afraid of Pui Pui,seriously Shin is impressed with everything."

Yet ONCE AGAIN Shin's statement is supported by multiple sources. Something you CANNOT deny.

"It was just leaking while he himself still remained in different timeline,there is a huge difference,that was only a little fraction of his powerit is like a vulcan erupton in one side of the planet and reaction of other side(or a similar example).Of course no one is going to give a s*** about it since it doesn't threaten them."

Yet when his power was directly leaking into the timeline and they knew what he could do, they still weren't threatened. Like we are arguing this ad nauseam. Like I could careless if you disagree, but stop arguing with us back and forth over the same points ad nauseam.

 

[Dark649]

It might be best to close this thread..........