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I'm a bit confused here, Zamasu never regenerates from getting erased across time, the ones we're dealing with just don't get erased when Beerus erases Zamasu. How are we getting High-Godly from this?
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Zamasu regen upgrade proposal.
- Thread starter ChoursDropoff
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Because it’s been stated and shown that Zamasu immortality is beyond what the Beerus and deal with. Beerus erased Goku Black. But Goku Black is unaffected because of the time ring. Goku black says as much when he admits the only reason he’s not gone is because he had a time ring. Zamasu can just do that on his own.
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No, that Zamasu was never erased by Beerus though.
Only the one that became Goku Black was.
The immortal Zamasu is the one from Future Trunks' timeline.
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Omega is distorting the facts, it is literally said by Whis that this happened because of him and not because of the ring
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I think you misunderstood me. I’m aware of that fact. I’m saying that he can’t because it’s been stated as much. It’s the whole reason he has mid godly even though he never interacted with immortal soul Zamasu.
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Also, why are the staff that disagrees with the thread not on the "disagree" poll?
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- #47
I’m trying to keep up with all the replies man I’ll add them if you want.
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Because they don't seem to understand how it works, that's why we're explaining it before casting votes.
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Agree with @omegabronic and Damage.
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I agree with this
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Before voting, did you take a look at the counter arguments?
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Yup
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- #54
What part of the counter argument did you not agree with? I explained the Beerus creating a time ring misunderstanding.
Killerdrone123
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Also let me point this out that goku states that hakai cant erase the immortal zamasu
If anybody's is confuse
If anybody's is confuse
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I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see how we're getting that Beerus erased Goku Black all across time. It looks more like what's being described is a difference in causality, where due to how the GoD's work, they can shape the general future through alterations to the past unlike how normally in Dragon Ball, you just create a branch world whenever you do timeline shenanigans.
Killerdrone123
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Omega literally contradicted himself and also his later arguments have been countered though
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Killerdrone123
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But the timeline was created meaning the god killing god doesn't create different timeline is not the case here
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No beerus makes it a point to explain that the technique of hakai is what’s doing this. Not that they can directly affect history through their actions. When he says that Zamasu will be gone he’s talking about his presence in history is being removed not that they can change affects on history.
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yeah, which is what made Black exist, go the trunks' future, go to the past following trunks, make Goku and co suspicious of Zamasu, them fighting, which made Zamasu more certain in his growing hatred of mortals, then killing gowasu and stealing the time ring, stealing Goku's body with the Super Dragon Balls, becoming Black, then going the trunks' future, go to the past following trunks, etc
it is a self contained loop where black made the suspicion that made Zamasu become Black in the first place, in the scan you showed it isn't implied that the loop is what created the ring, nor am i sure how would that even work as infinite rings would be continuously created by the loop under your logic as the events of it would continue to happen forever
Zamasu didn't had a time ring until after he killed Gowasu and then went to the room where they were to grab one, Zamasu immediately after killing gowasu didn't had a time ring, thus what you described would not protect the Zamasu they were talking about as he wouldn't have the ring yet
i believe i have said this enough times but, no, Beerus never, and i mean NEVER talks about the hakai in his explanation to trunks, he specifically says that what happens only happens when a god kills another, not following the "mortal logic" of time travel
go for the up above, no, Beerus very specifically was talking about a god killing another, not a person on the level of a god or anything, it is specifically when a god kills another
which would only make sense if his history was altered rather than completely erased, as his current present self would also be erased, thus making the acausality meaningless
Black never went back to his own timeline to kill gowasu, in fact there wouldn't be any Zamasu there to become black at all for him to help via the proposition you presented, the timeline was 1 were black came from the zamasu of the present timeline, it got divided in 2 because of Black's time ring making him imune to changes in his past even when it is under the "gods logic" to time travel and alteration that Beerus explained to trunks
Beerus never talks about the hakai in specific, only to the action of being a god killing another, so it would only happen when a god kills another
it was disagreed that he scales to his separated self, hence why he lost the Mid Godly, he doesn't have any evidence of having the regeneration from the searated Zamasu, so he doesn't gain any of it
Black says quite explicitly that whatever happens to his past self doesn't have any effect in his current, present self, Beerus explanation quite litteraly says that the timeline wouldn't split and Black would be gone, Black isn't gone, proving Beerus wrong, and the explanation for that is the Time Ring he has protecting him from alterations in his history, aka the thing that caused the effect Beerus described to trunks to not happen is the time ring, thus it was the reason the timeline split contrary to Beerus saying that it wouldn't split, but be changed
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i am not, that scene even shocks beerus because, as he explains earlier to trunks, the timeline wasn't supposed to split, the events were supposed to change, thus removing Black via changing his past, the reason wasn't removed is said to be the time ring, so we can put blame on things not going as Beerus said to the said ring
Killerdrone123
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Yeah it would have not affected him not that it would create other timeline if his past would have been tempered.He was more so shocked because he didn't knew he committed the same mistake he was scolding whis for whis literally explains why it was him not that time ring has anything to do with it otherwise beerus or whis would have pointed out that it was time rings fault
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What is failing to click with me is how the assumption has been made that Zamasu was erased throughout all of time.
Because as is currently explained, Goku Black didn't die because he had his ring on, which meant his personal past couldn't be altered. If that is a problem he has to worry about, and it is confirmed that Beerus's hakai would've killed him otherwise, then it sounds more like either GoD or just Hakai can ignore the normal causality of the Dragon Ball universe instead of it spreading throughout all of time. Especially since people can still remember and talk about Goku Black and Zamasu and all their stuff.
Because as is currently explained, Goku Black didn't die because he had his ring on, which meant his personal past couldn't be altered. If that is a problem he has to worry about, and it is confirmed that Beerus's hakai would've killed him otherwise, then it sounds more like either GoD or just Hakai can ignore the normal causality of the Dragon Ball universe instead of it spreading throughout all of time. Especially since people can still remember and talk about Goku Black and Zamasu and all their stuff.
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Could you show evidence that this effect was the time ring? Because just talking and not proving anything at all, Whis says in so many words that this was caused by Beerus.
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*Goku said that, but that is besides the point, we already accept that Beerus can't erase him even tho he erases body and soul, hence the Mid Godly regen
Killerdrone123
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My bad on that
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no it isn't, Beerus never gives credit to what happened to the hakai at all, he gives credit to it because he is a god killing another god, that is all
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People remember Zamasu and Black because they are different timelines, they have no connection with each other, and Trunks is not from that timeline, it is another timeline than Trunks dies by Cell and Trunks takes his place, so there are no memory erasure effects.
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There's nothing there saying, it's just Black mentioning that things that affect the past cannot affect him in the future, as always, you have no evidence and are trying to distort things.
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I stated that I agree with the anti arguments btw.
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yet they still remember the Zamasu of their own timeline, which was supposedly erased from all of History per the argument of the thread
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- #74
Okay then you admit yourself that you were wrong then because beerus didn’t make a new timeline due to his own actions he he prevented one from existing. It’s the whole reason his timeline is still messed up. Because when he went back in time. It didn’t affect history it created a new future. It’s the whole erase Zamasu doesn’t show up in the main timeline anymore because he’s gone.
Actually no that’s not how a time ring works even if it’s a time loop it’s a self contained loop. Meaning no new timelines would be created. Time ring are physical representations of the timeline. Meaning even in the event of their being a loop that’s still a single time ring.
Zamasu never had a time ring period Goku black did.
He doesn’t need to talk about it we literally see him use it on screen.
No he said that because he was Al talking in reference to zamasu in specific who is a god. But even then off what you’ve written you seem to agree with me even if I bit the bullet and assumed that hakai on affects gods on a temporal level it’s still affecting the god on a temporal level. Assuming you wanna die on that hill.
No that’s the whole point of accausality that you don’t have to concern yourself with changes or even the destruction of your history it just re affirms his accausality. Only one black had a time rind not infinite.
Yes because he was the first version of himself to do so thus starting the time loop. Nobody knew he existed until he went ti trunks future. The manga show is as much by him going to trunks timeline.
He physically shows us him using hakai on screen. That’s like if Goku used kamehameha screen and your doubting he used it on screen.
Bro that’s whole purpose of a time ring if hakai did kill him then it would become pointless. The purpose of a time ring is to protect your history. If it did work then the time ring would be pointless. It’s the whole reason he was soo difficult to deal with because if you did kill him in the past he’d be here in the future.
Hell even the way timelines in dbs work supports this hypothetically if trunks went back I. Time and killed Zamasu then he unironically wouldn’t need a time ring because it wouldn’t effect his future. Goku black made it a point to use one because he knows people like beerus exist.
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- #75
That’s literally irrelevant though even if he is gone his memory and actions on reality don’t go just his physical presence.
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- #76
1. That’s not how time works in DB just because you erased someone from time doesn’t mean their memory goes with them. That would be like a +1 to the EE for example when Zeno erased the future timeline everyone didn’t forget it existed.
2. Zamasu is loosing his place in history as in his physical presence in time. If Zamasu was to blow up earth then get erased from time. Earth would still be gone.
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dude did you read all my response before answering this? Beerus was right, the story gives an explanation for why it didn't work, that being Black's time ring, it was a loop, Beerus broke said loop, which he believed would make Black disapear due to the different logic go time travel gods have, but it didn't, as such the break of the loop made another timeline appear, i can't be contradicting myself if i say the reason things didn't work as Beerus said they would
.....yeah, and then Beerus broke said loop by killing Zamasu, that is the point
he had one after he killed Gowasu, and then stoled it from the vault, also Zamasu and Black are but the same person, so distincting them doesn't make sense
he used the hakai yes, and then to explain to trunks why him doing what he did would change the future, he says that it is because both him and zamasu are gods, thus following a different logic for time travel alterations than mortals do, what he used to kill zamasu doesn't matter for what Beerus explained
nothing is ever said that this happens without it being against a god, if you want to say that it would do that against non god beings, then prove it
no, as i have said multiple times, Beerus never, ever says anything about affecting someone's entire history, he responds to trunks pointing out that changing the past didn't altered his future, which Beerus says that this only happens in mortal logic, implying that when a god kills another it follows the god's logic of the past altering the future
acausality type 1 makes you imune to time paradoxes, that is all, Black has a present in where he can affected, his present in part of his history, so it would be erased as well if his history was nuked
him appearing in the present due to trunks is what made the chain of events that lead to zamasu stealing goku's body in the first place, what the manga showed really doesn't address much of anything i have said, so idk what am i supposed to be seeing
he used the hakai, but that is irrelevant to my point at all, in the explanation he says that the effect will happens because he is a god killing another god, the method he used is never implied or stated to have an effect on that, if you want to say that it was the hakai's doing exclussively, then prove it as nothing is ever even implied, much less stated to be the case for that
huh huh? so? did i ever said that the time ring wouldn't protect him? it wouldn't from history erasure, but simple alteration of his past it does, as much is said by black himself, again, i don't see what point of mine you are trying to go against
.......yeah, which is the whole point of what Beerus said when he killed Zamasu, it works that way for mortals, but Beerus explains that it doesn't work like that when a god kills another, are you even reading what i am posting?
say that to Duedate, they are the one's who brought the point in the first place
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meaningless accusations to me as usual, oh yeah "boo i am trying to distort all the evidence because i hate DB boo hooo"
keep believing that if it makes you sleep better at night
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Agree with Omega and Damage.
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1. You’re getting too hung up on the word “logic” again he was talking specifically in reference to Zamasu. Hence why he said mortal logic. Gods can charge history without making splits in time.
2. Yes while Goku black did come to the main timeline. That doesn’t mean he broke the loop beerus is a part of the loop him erasing Zamasu leads to him killing Gawasu and stealing Goku’s body so on and so forth. Zeno broke the loop.
3. You are contradicting yourself you as first said it’s not temporal but it’s AoE which makes no sense. Because if you admit his AoE can affect other Zamasu’s in time then it’s temporal. Then afterwards you changed it as said it’s temporal but only only works on Gods. Which makes less sense because it means you admit it’s high godly but don’t think it should count because is selective EE.
Zeno not Beerus broke the loop
No he didn’t Goku black had one but not Zamasu they show us ass much. Zamasu the green one. Didn’t have a time ring
Again you’re hung up on the word logic it’s not that complex he’s just saying when he killed Zamasu it didn’t make a spit in time.
It’s because you’re hanging on the every word he says. The nuance of what he meant was in relation to Zamasu in specific whis even stated he can manipulate time without making new timelines.
Okay even if I were to concede and say that Beerus temporal erasure is god specific like YOU ADMITTED!! It would require Zamasu have high godly.
Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.
Literally how it’s described is how it’s explained. And how I’m explaining it. If he got erased from the past his future is still intact because of the time ring. It’s not like Zeno who truly did nuke his history by deleting it all together.
Then at that point you’re just admitting he’s part of the loop then. Yes he came to the present. That still doesn’t negate the fact he was deleted.
Okay you’ve said this first point like 3 times already. Even if that were the case he is still being deleted from history. Even if you argued he only has selective high godly EE, he’s still being erased. Hence he’d need temporal regeneration.
It would it’s the would point of the ring the fact he has history protection means he wouldn’t die if his past self was erased.
Again even if you’re wanting to die on this hill it doesn’t negate the fact that Zamasu is regenerating from temporal erasure.
Regardless still a nothimg point.
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