Issei vs Carissa (To Aru)

[DragonEmperor23]

Maybe the real question where is the BPW on the profile, don't use attack that are not there

You can use attacks that aren't there, you just have to source them. Since the BPW seems to be the deciding factor here, I contacted someone from the knowledgable members list on DxD so they can better explain it. I suggest we wait on them to respond as that is what both sides are dependent on.

 

[Zensum]

Precognition stops the debris and paralying stops her from attacking at that point. Where did you get the range of Issei's paralysis from?

Precog helps him dodge debris but if she decides to use Telemsa explosion that dodge option is gone. An estimated guess from someone who's knowledgeable on the verse.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I suggest we wait on them to respond as that is what both sides are dependent on.
^

 

[KuuIchigo]

Carissa likely has range far greater than her profile would indicate. Considering a mere shard of the weaker in comparison to curtana original, curtana second, can snipe from kms awaym

 

[KuuIchigo]

Theres also the possibility of the Ultimate strike.

 

[Hizack123]

Does debis can even do anything to issei? I mean unless she thrown it and she not, the attack it just let's the debris fall.

Debris vs Man who tank island level attack?

Yeah right, issei just AOE her from hundred of kilometers away

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

About BPW, it's just him firing his red and black dragon god aura / energy as he does normally, but it completely halts females in this case. Aura is used interchangeably with energy, and the characters can use it as their offensive moves. It's not that kind of aura that sticks to the body.

Issei's not baseline anymore as multipliers are now accepted. He's 600 gigatons at least scaling from Ajuka and Sirzechs, and that can be increased with Boosts.

Ddraig is equal to, or stronger than him. They both can ignore defenses with Penetrate against their moves so a form of defense is useless. Pailingual is not mind reading and that sixth sense thing isn't precognition. If anyone has precognition for that reason, it needs to be removed.

Issei can spam energy blasts from just his hands, has several cannons on his stomach, shoulders and wings, can control his attacks like his hands and legs, and has significant AoE so no dodging is going to happen. He even has hidden dragon arms in his wings. That's effectively six limbs + Ddraig to help out, so no need to waste time with debris. If we combine that with Ddraig having similar offensive output + both of them continuously doubling their power + their moves bypassing her defenses with Penetrate, I don't believe Carissa is going to be tanking or avoiding their attacks.

Concerning the Telesma explosion, I asked earlier and it doesn't seem to be anything special. With Pailingual, Issei can anticipate that in advance. If he uses his wyverns, they'd be able to divide to halve the power of the explosion several times over and neutralize further uses of it. By the way, the wyverns can also double their power and transfer to him, and Boosts can be focused for defense if that helps.

Though Curtana will one-shot Issei if it connects, Blazing Inferno will one-shot Carissa. The AoE is big and I don't think there's anything she can do about it. Flames can't be extinguished as well, and it completely disintegrated Trihexa's consciousness on contact.

@Malox

The sixth sense won't cancel out Pailingual. I think you should read its description again, because the current description of Carissa's sixth sense does not lead me to believe its effectiveness is comparable to Pailingual's in this match. If it also enhances speed, Issei can do that too.

 

[Malox1696]

U can't read the description but this time I'm kind and I will post so read it all : "She can use magic to gain a supernatural sixth sense, allowing her to FEEL the flow of battle and enemies and ENABLING her to react faster and perform attacks with higher precision."

The enhanced reaction speed and precision are a consequence of being able to read the battle and opponent, as I said again a practical example would be: the magical version of touma precog

The magic is gonna react to the changes of the opponent movement after he reads her mind

The point about the debris was never to kill she always used them or as a projectile or as wall to lead in tho the slices after she cut the dimensions

And once again they are speed equal what's this "from range" u are talking about they start at 100 m so she can reach him if he stops to charge,attack, etc

So the BPW is a not a sure hit too ?

One thing I don't remember is how durable are the dimensional debris

 

[Malox1696]

and if u are soo stuck in the wording, issei precog just gives him the strategy of the opponent not a real time feed of what in the opponent mind so he can dodge all attacks as U can read in the description of the ability

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I've read the description of her sixth sense a few times now. I'm saying that it's smilar to Sage Mode in Naruto, and precognition has already been shot down for the users. I don't understand how a normal sixth sense that just allows you to read the flow of a fight, react faster and perform attacks better is equal to something that essentially performs the same functions as, and is commonly interpreted as mind reading, even by yourself. Really, there's no comparison to be made. This sixth sense is Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception.

Issei can also move backwards and use his abilities. You're not factoring Ddraig that has similar offensive capabilities and is probably stronger than Issei. Carissa can't just move forward as you described, as she will have to deal with a barrage of attacks that Issei can manipulate at will and also have a lot of AoE. His attacks alone are sufficient enough to keep her at bay. Add Ddraig, and it turns into a uphill task. It's nowhere near as simple as you described. Not taking into account that either of them can just decide to use Blazing Inferno and one-shot just like that.

Ah yeah, his moves can also affect space sometimes. That'd ignore her durability as well.

Yeah, but he has learned how to control his ranged moves like how one can control his arms and legs.

The info is not from a databook or anything like that. The breasts tell him exactly what the female opponent in question is going to do. I can understand why people interpret it as mind reading. Its effects are similar to what one would see from mind reading, but it's specifically noted not to have anything to do with the mind. It's breast communication. Actually, he can also ask the breasts questions and they'll answer him. Lol.

 

[Malox1696]

False analogy and correlation don't fall for the fallacy, it's a spell and it's not naruto, i already given u a similar ability in universe that's its actually totally normal

the magic would react to the opponet movgement the moment he gets the info and tries something elsde the spell to give imformation on how he changed moves, its not gonna give precise descrption of the ability but can still dodge it

both have it don't try to remove the other cause u just like it so

and as i said above she does use the debris both as a weapon and defence and generally strategically making the opponent make forced choices

the debris ca have all the shapes she want them to be

and if im not wrong the "mind reading" require sight

and u say it tells him, it's not an instant feed especially in high speed fight

leaving aside if u give her time to charge she can extend the range of the dimensional slice to 1500 m as KuuIchigo pointed out

carissa can and always has spammed the dimensional slice it cost nothing

there is not durability negation on his profile, u can't keep using off site reason please add them to the profile please

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Well, it's whatever. I'm just telling you it's not precognition and that it's similar to senjutsu. Seems like a valid comparison is making you triggered for some reason, so I'll stop with that. All you have to do is to stop saying it's precognition and is equal to Pailingual that's essentially mind reading in practice, the only difference being breasts. Because it's not any of those.

People can have similar abilities, but A's version can be better than B's. The sixth sense is not good as Pailingual. You're just trying to equate them to each other. How incredulous. They don't even perform the same function.

No offence, but I'm not sure you're reading my posts properly. Either that, or you've been selectively ignoring my paragraphs. Just read my previous two posts carefully. Don't ignore what you see, and your debris arguments are neatly taken care of.

He uses it just fine in high speed fights and life or death battles.

No need to add durability negation. Moves that can affect space are already generally known to bypass durability. Do you know the amount of people that have Soul Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Causality Manipulation, etc on their pages, but don't have durability negation listed? It's self explanatory.

Really, so you use the 1500m meter argument that isn't in her page for Curtana Original without a shred of hesitation, but you complain about durability negation not being in Issei's page. Well, okay.

As I looked at Carissa's page, it says twenty meters with dimensional slicing and a few kilometers with the debris. The description for Curtana Original here and in the To Aru wiki say nothing about the slash extending to 1500m with enough charge time.

That aside, I didn't even know she needs to charge the attack in the first place. Whether you like it or not, Pailingual kicks in and he'd know to not let her charge the attack. Besides, I've already said she'd be subjected to a barrage of attacks from Issei and Ddraig. You're ignoring quite a lot of factors. There's no time to charge under such pressure, and Blazing Inferno will one-shot.

 

[Malox1696]

in the novel they are called sense of premonition and intuition :"She must be obscuring our sixth senses of premonition and intuition"

so no, it's not naruto sage mode

and in the same part she jeeps dodging the barrage of attack even without it

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Though it was said that except someone can get actual glimpses of the future, they shouldn't get precognition.

......

 

[Malox1696]

I call it precog but u know what i mean, it's not real precog

it's more like Sense of Foreboding i already told u that u can compare it touma one, and there is a lengthy explanation about it on his profile but her it's magic based and has better range

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Ah, okay. I understand what you mean now.

 

[Malox1696]

U did not counter the argument of the debris she can use them as shield too

The 1500 range is for the shard of the same sword and that's the only one that she needs to charge to extend the reach of the sword and by charge I don't mean the kamehameha style, it's just not instant as she need to focus the Thelma so it can be dodged but not if he is using the inferno

if u mean the Dragon Blaster: Issei focuses his power into the cannons on his shoulders, and releases a massive blast of energy at his foes. It is significantly powerful, capable of warping space-time. He can aim both of the cannons at different directions in order to affect two separate targets at once, and minimize or expand the area of effect of his blasts at will.

Then yes if it hits or if he is not killed while he'd stop to focus

and btw doesn't the armor need to transform first for each form ?

 

[VoidGoji]

The point is... Can Issei destroy the Debris? Its a pseudo-higher dimensional structure.

 

[Hizack123]

The point is... Can Issei destroy the Debris? Its a pseudo-higher dimensional structure.

What?

 

[VoidGoji]

Carissa can create dimensional debris and use it as shields or attacks. The debris is basically the "slice" made by the sword.


In the next instant, Kamijou Touma saw a dimension being severed for the first time in his life.

Its range was a little less than 20 meters.

With a strange noise, something passed through along a line that Kamijou and Acqua had been on just a moment before. Something like a belt or a wall that was only about as wide as Curtana Original expanded. It was white and looked a little like a plastic model before it was colored. That object that looked not entirely complete appeared before Kamijou's eyes.

"I could feel it when I was practicing before. This spiritual item is quite old, but its disposition seems to change a bit when someone wields it based on modern military knowledge. …Well, I'm sure my mother would be able to do something similar because she has the same nature." A tone of enjoyment could be heard in Carissa's voice. "Did you know that the cross section you get by slicing a 3 dimensional object is 2 dimensional? And slicing a 2 dimensional object creates a 1 dimensional cross section."

With a clunk, the mysterious belt-shaped object that had been irrationally floating in the air fell to the ground right next to Kamijou.

It felt something like pottery, but it was actually extremely heavy despite how it looked. Even after it fell, it continued to sink into the black soil.

"Similarly, when a dimension higher than our 3 dimensions is sliced, the cross section appears in this world in a 3 dimensional form. As a result, the ruins of a cross section appears like this."

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@Malox

No problem from that then. All of what I said still stands.

Yeah, the full powered one. But he doesn't need to charge for normal blasts, which is what I'm talking about. Plus it's not impossible for someone to move while charging attacks, and you're ignoring the presence of Ddraig once again. I'll say this again; he's equal to, or stronger than Issei and they have similar offensive techniques. It's going to be incredibly hard to do these things you're saying.

Also, I've said that Issei can manipulate his attacks like how one could do with his arms and legs, but you're still mentioning dodging even with a lot of AoE, and somehow we've forgotten about BPW. I'm tired of repeating my points over and over.

Mode Change is for Triaina and Cardinal Crimson Promotion, not Pseudo DxD. But it changes instantly anyway.

 

[Hizack123]

I......don't think issei can destroy that.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

So what's the essence of that quote? Carissa's slice is 11-D, but the debris seems to not be such. And how can people tank it or destroy it if it's higher dimensional in attack and defense?

 

[Hizack123]

So what's the essence of that quote? Carissa's slice is 11-D, but the debris seems to not be such. And how can people tank it or destroy it if it's higher dimensional in attack and defense?

Oh, yeah that make sense.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It even says it appears in our world in a 3-D form. I don't know jack about To Aru though, so something like higher dimensional debris of all things - seriously, doesn't it sound so strange? - would need to be accepted in a thread first, I guess.

 

[Hizack123]

It even says it appears in our world in a 3-D form. I don't know jack about To Aru though, so something like higher dimensional debris of all things - seriously, doesn't it sound so strange? - would need to be accepted in a thread first, I guess.

I may re-read and make CT about it if it have a time

 

[VoidGoji]

The debris form is 3-D because thats how the characters can percieve it since the attack itself just severed higher-dimensional space. The debris itself is higher-dimensional. Its exemplified in the same quote, guys.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I have a hard time believing such a thing like that since it's not specifically noted to be 11-D in her page. So how can the characters even destroy, tank, or survive an impact from being anywhere near such a thing?

Well, it's not my place to evaluate. Like I said, something important like this needs to be accepted in a thread and explained well in her page.

 

[Malox1696]

no, it's the 4 dimensional debris not the 11 one, think about cutting 3d object , it creates a 2d section that's the same and no the debris can be destroyed but i don't remember the exact durability.

btw i had to repeat the same thing 4 times so I'M tired of repeating the same thing the same time, the BPW:1 is a projectile one , 2 is not on the page so i dont even know what it does please link something about it

the projectile of the full power one warps space as it says in the description

she could still dodge gabriel barrage WITHOUT the spell support so she should be able to dodge most of the attack too

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Well, it's not my place to evaluate. Like I said, something important like this needs to be accepted in a thread and explained well in her page.

^ If she has fourth dimensional attacks then it needs to be added to her page.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Still needs a thread, as I can't work with the current info given.

Yeah, and I've told you Issei can manipulate his attacks like- ahhh, whatever. I explained it above. He fires his dragon god aura / energy and it completely halts females. Simple. Gonna explain it in his page later.

Now, you should practice what you preach and get all of this higher dimensional debris stuff and 1500m range to be added to Carissa's page.

And I told you that Issei can control his attacks like--- well, whatever. Let's just agree to disagree. You selectively ignore a lot of things I say so we're not going anywhere. What I'm repeating is even in his page, but you're cherry picking things that conveniently suit you. I'm done with your posts. Might sound rude, but that's actually not my intention.

 

[Malox1696]

Still needs a thread, as I can't work with the current info given.
Yeah, and I've told you Issei can manipulate his attacks like- ahhh, whatever. I explained it above. He fires his dragon god aura / energy and it completely halts females. Simple. Gonna explain it in his page later.

Now, you should practice what you preach and get all of this higher dimensional debris stuff and 1500m range to be added to Carissa's page.

And I told you that Issei can control his attacks like--- well, whatever. Let's just agree to disagree. You selectively ignore a lot of things I say so we're not going anywhere. What I'm repeating is even in his page, but you're cherry picking things that conveniently suit you. I'm done with your posts. Might sound rude, but that's actually not my intention.

the 1500 range is already there as part of the shard of the same sword, and the debris is there this just show u just don't read the pages (or even use ctrl+f) :

As a member of the Royal Family, Carissa can use the shards result of the Curtana Second being chipped by the Curtana Original as weapons. The shards can project a sword of light that cuts through dimensions (though this doesn't create dimensional debris as a side-effect like the Curtana Original does, likely because of the difference in power) to slash anything in its path. The shards also empower Carissa in a similar way to the Curtanas, allowing her to fight opponents like the Maiden of Versailles, Kanzaki Kaori or even the incomplete Archangel Gabriel. Carissa can increase the length of the swords of light, reaching over 1500 meters. Carissa initially carried 13 of these shards, though one of them was destroyed by Gabriel, and has been shown to be able to dual-wield them.

As a passive effect of this spell, each slash creates dimensional debris. This debris takes the form of a large white object that looks like uncolored plastic, with the shape based on Curtana's swing. The reason the dimensional debris appears as that because the only cross-section objects created that humans can perceive are the ones that can appear in a 3-dimensional world. The debris can be up to 100 meters long and can be used as a shield to block attacks or as a projectile by kicking it or throwing it away. Since the debris is merely the side effect of the spell it's not magical in nature, and thus cannot be negated with anti-magic. However, anti-magic can be used to negate the swing before the debris can be produced, with a time window of 1.25 seconds after the slash.

u just dont want to read, i have to once again to post this, while the BPW is literally missing from his page so don't come here preaching how i don't listen or cherry pick when the whole thread u were saying that issei percog invalidated carissa precog cause of "REASON" as u cherry picked the ability description cutting the first part

I'm literally copy pasting from both pages that's what they both say, im not cherry picking anything unlike u, or making stuff up that is not on the page of the characters

btw i'm trying to say u point are void, im just explaning my resoning on why carissa wins it most of the time

unlike the claim made at the start of the thread

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Nope, it's there for Curtana Second, not Curtana Original. Both in this wiki and the To Aru wiki. And I've even taken that into account above. I can't believe you're saying I didn't read her page. You can literally see me voting for Carissa initially in the thread and copy-pasting the description of the explosion to ask a question about it, to which Gargoyle replied. You can even see me saying I looked at the To Aru wiki. How can I do that if I don't check her page? Do I sound like a reality warper to you? I sound like Gremmy?

I checked Carissa's page, and I also checked the articles for Telesma and Curtana. I said I'll wait for Schro before posting further. I guess you just ignored all of that, huh. Okay.

No need to copy-paste that. I've read through it a few times now.

Right, since you insist on it - ironic given that a few things for Carissa aren't in her page - I've added it.

Now all is okay. Let's drop it because I can't continue again.

 

[Malox1696]

ok let u guess what curtana second is since u read the wiki, second, the debris are on the page so don't try to say i'm lying

take ur time no need to hurry to respond, but don't accuse me of cherry picking when i'm copy pasting form both pages

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I didn't say you're lying about the debris, I've already acknowledged it and I didn't say it's not in her page. What I'm talking about is higher dimensional debris. 11-D, 4-D or whatever it is.

I would point some things out to correct you, but that'd just stretch this on. So okay.

 

[Zensum]

I have a hard time believing such a thing like that since it's not specifically noted to be 11-D in her page. So how can the characters even destroy, tank, or survive an impact from being anywhere near such a thing?
Well, it's not my place to evaluate. Like I said, something important like this needs to be accepted in a thread and explained well in her page.

@bold (Can sever up to the 11th dimension). It creates a crossection of the higher D which can only be percived/interacted with in the 3D world by regular people which is on the profile.

To clear up it can be destroyed if someone can destroy the object all they way up to w/e D Carrisa cut up to or they have some type of spatial hax. It can be dodged and depending on the size it can be tanked and survived by other 6C's because its simply natural matter crosssections from different planes and the clear 3D form is obviously visable.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Hmm, okay.

 

[Malox1696]

I have a hard time believing such a thing like that since it's not specifically noted to be 11-D in her page. So how can the characters even destroy, tank, or survive an impact from being anywhere near such a thing?Well, it's not my place to evaluate. Like I said, something important like this needs to be accepted in a thread and explained well in her page.

@bold (Can sever up to the 11th dimension). It creates a crossection of the higher D which can only be percived/interacted with in the 3D world by regular people which is on the profile.
To clear up it can be destroyed if someone can destroy the object all they way up to w/e D Carrisa cut up to or they have some type of spatial hax. It can be dodged and depending on the size it can be tanked and survived by other 6C's because its simply natural matter crosssections from different planes and the clear 3D form is obviously visable.

Technically it can be destroyed from attacks too, i just don't remember the durability, kanzaki with yussen could cut the debris if im not wrong.

 

[Zensum]

Technically it can be destroyed from attacks too, i just don't remember the durability, kanzaki with yussen could cut the debris if im not wrong.

I just double checked she could only reflect or move the wreckage. Yuisen was only used once to clash with curtana

"She used her attack that could cut even a monotheistic angel, Yuisen. That was a strike that simply could not be ignored, so Carissa changed the trajectory of her sword at the last second to block it."

 

[Malox1696]

really makes u guess what has becomes of the debris after the arc