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Information about Kakashi, and raikiri
- Thread starter Mattheus198
- Start date
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What the hell does this even mean? What bow? What recovery?
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Sasuke isn’t recovering from anything, that’s Sasuke after coming out of the barrel. And he still said he was going full power so-
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- #84
No, I am justifying.
OMG, I'm comparing that just as Obito can accompany Guy in base form and with the gates (More than 5x upgrades), Naruto does the same with Sasuke.
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By heavily ignoring Context
The fact that you think Rinnegan Obito, who simultaneously fought Gates Guy, KCM Naruto, and Kakashi, keeping up with Base Guy supports you in any way is laughable.
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I need a scan of Obito accompanying Guy with the gates now
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- #87
Dude, are you confused or am I not making things clear.
The technique needs the user to increase the speed of the body to use it.
Why that? because it’s basically a killer move and you need to be as fast as possible to avoid a possible counterattack or you’ll be exposed, which makes jutsu incomplete. But with the sharingan that offers kinetic vision, you can use jutsu more safely, so Obito presented Kakashi with his dojutsu.
What gives 5X up speed is the secret of the technique, that is, the impulse speed that the concentrated raiton creates, including, Kakashi reinforces that the speed acquired by the raikiri is extremely fast.
There is no point in upping 5x speed if the user is stopped or does not use his full speed or has a low body speed, because then anyone with the same speed level will accompany him. Anyway, it is gradual, the more Kakashi uses his physical speed with up the raikiri, the faster he gets, and in the situations that were addressed or he was on the ground or standing still, in addition to other factors of the opponents. In situations where he was running at a distance, he was able to blind enemies or accompany his allies.
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- #88
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He didn't accompany him. Kamui is a passive ability, which is how he evaded.
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At best, that would just be a reaction speed feat.
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That isn't even saying that a Raikiri or Chidori user needs to gradually increase their speed though? That's literally Guy talking about Sasuke's increase in speed because of his training where previously Sasuke was slower than Lee with weights, and now he's just as fast as Lee without his weights.
This is what Minato said "It's a strike with a single focus", and "It makes you move too fast to ascertain (react to) the opponent's counterattack".
Making it seem like it's an instantaneous burst of speed kind of attack meaning a momentary and unquantifiable burst of speed unlike the constant speed upon activating the Eight Gates
Meaning it wouldn't help Kakashi keep up with characters 5X faster than him or react to sudden counterattacks.
"Almost impossible speed of its stroke", and "Immense Chakra focused in the Arm"
Stroke: an act of hitting or striking someone or something; a blow.
Stroke (Noun): 1. the act of striking, 2. a single unbroken movement, 4. a sudden action or process producing an impact
Basically what KingTempest already said
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- 92
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- Thread starter
- #92
Yes, because this is a murder move, you need your body speed to be higher, as Guy pointed out.
You are just repeating what I just said in other words.
Chidori IS A MURDER MOVEMENT. Nothing here deviates from what I explained earlier.
And about whether Kakashi can follow characters 5X faster, of course he can, but that's only at cruising speed, since he managed to go on a run with Guy 6 gates. He would only react to what was within his visual perception, otherwise, even the sharingan would not help him.
And I never said it was a continuous climb, because even the users of the 8 gates after missing the target or passing through it are unable to maintain the same speed of the previous movement to attack again, Lee himself supported himself on the walls to receive impulse from the chunnin examination walls, and if it had chidori, it would suffice to constantly maintain the technique in use and gain on the walls an impulse that would have the same performance as the 8 gates.
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You do know you're saying that their Body Speed > The Jutsu
What even is cruising speed?
Now you're saying that Kakashi is comparable to 6th Gate Guy's Movement Speed.
Do you legitimately have any proof, scans, or statements that state that the Chidori is equal or comparable to the Eight Gates Multiplier other than using characters saying that it's fast.
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I completely disagree with a possible 5x multiplier for Chidori / Raikiri. Base Sasuke is superior to Base Naruto from afar and this has always been clear, in their fight in the valley of the end they both run through the water with their techniques and keeped up each other at speed, there would be no way Naruto do it if Sasuke increased his speed by 5x, since him speed was already higher.
Accepting a 5x multiplier for this is like saying that base Naruto is 5x faster than Sasuke, and that's ridiculous.
Accepting a 5x multiplier for this is like saying that base Naruto is 5x faster than Sasuke, and that's ridiculous.
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Chidori (One Thousand Birds)
- Ninjutsu, A-rank, Offensive, Close range
- User(s): Uchiha Sasuke
By activating the body, a great amount of chakra is brought forth and concentrated into one arm. Furthermore, by running a long distance, this turns into a high-speed stab of destructive power!! The movement is a mere stab, but this great technique boasts such large power that it was able to open a hole in Gaara’s sand defense.
The released chakra gives off a ‘chicchicchi’ noise which can be compared to birds’ voices.
When Kakashi uses it, Chidori is known as Raikiri.
No mention of increasing movement speed, Guy just specifies that it's the speed of the thrust or stab
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- #96
I inferred this from the beginning, in this jutsu you need body speed to reach the goal of the technique.
And it's no use not using all my physical speed or being slow that the chidori up won't do much, including Lee with high physical speed and strength with 5 gates, it wasn't necessary to defeat Gaara, imagine someone weaker.
It's running speed
Only at cruising / running speed when using the raikiri, otherwise it is slower, as defined when the Guy with 6 gates has already hit Obito, and Kakashi barely gets close
I showed several Kakashi's achievements with or without raikiri, I used more than two mentions that the technique generates a great impulse speed.
Besides, I'm just saying that raikiri acquires all that speed in one movement and we have a base when Kakashi with this up and keeps up with Guy with 6 gates. You can summarize that this up is only for cruising / running and single movement.
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In the anime, the scene that Kakashi supposedly arrives at the same time as Guy is different, Guy arrives before, kicking Obito and making his hand cross Naruto's face, and then Kakashi arrives and takes Naruto from there. I usually believe that in certain cases the anime makes a clearer adaptation, I don't remember in which situations the anime can be used as a reference, but in this case I believe it should be used. And in this scene Kakashi did not use the Raikiri(I only mentioned this, case you are counting on this scene too).
If not, in what scenes did Kakashi using Raikiri keept up in speed with Guy? I don't really remember.
If not, in what scenes did Kakashi using Raikiri keept up in speed with Guy? I don't really remember.
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And yet Guy and Lee make it a point that Taijutsu alone is not enough against Gaara.
"Barely gets close", Kakashi is crouching over Naruto, with his hand on top his chest, while beside Obito.
By saying that you need to build up speed which makes it an unquantifiable Speed Amp and not a 5X Multiplier.
Kakashi fought along with Gates Guy against V2 Jinchuriki why would that only be for Running
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Honestly, those scenes where characters run alongside other characters, or where a character's attacks are launched at the same time as the attacks of other characters, and arrive at the same location at the same time, shouldn't even be taken into account especially when we're talking about Naruto. Scenes like this are common, like Darui arriving at the same time as the Raikage when they went to attack Sasuke, or the attacks of thousands of ninjas arriving at the same time in Juubi ... This is common and should not even be used as a scale, especially in inconsistent cases like that.
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- #100
So, I mostly use the manga a lot because it is the original work, but I don't despise the anime because the scenes are more fluid.
As I mentioned before, Guy with 6 gate already arrives first attacking Obito, Kakashi without raikiri barely arrives arrives on the scene
Now Guy with 6 gates is accompanied by Kakashi with raikiri and then they attack the jins together
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- #101
Yes, because judging that Gaara barely suffered physical scrapes against Lee's attacks, and Sasuke is inferior in strength, speed and general attributes, he couldn't do better. Then Kakashi trains to improve Sasuke's speed and teaches him a jutsu that with great destructive power. That's because Sasuke needs a speed more or less than Lee without weights, which was more or less the speed that surpassed Gaara's sand and with the help of the chidori up, he was more or less at Lee's speed with 5 gate than Gaara and its sand did not react.
That's why Guy says that he would need a higher physical speed, because with a lower physical speed than Lee's he would not have good results against Gaara
What? Look at Kakashi's support foot, when he fixes himself on the ground, Guy was finished attacking Obito, and in the anime it still proves.
I already explained this about increasing speed in the first text.
Base Kakashi and Base Guy have practically the same speed, with the difference that Guy is a little bit taller. And both with their techniques run, follow and attack together. It is obvious that up of the techniques used in question have more or less the same multiplier.
* Kakashi with raikiri running to hit the jins *
Now look what happens when Kakashi standing still attacks the jins.
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Still not a Multiplier though? Unless you literally have a statement about the Chidori/Raikiri having a numerical value just like the CM2 Multiplier, Sage Mode Multiplier, First Gate Multiplier.
Because you realize that, as GTsek already said, this would also affect Part I Naruto and Sasuke.
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- #103
Yes, but it is a multiplier with speed only, because all those you mentioned are multipliers with general attributes. And I don't think I need a mention for that, but based on the facts that give rise to this, since MK, Modo rikudou, has a up much than the 8 gates, but it is not known how much, that's why the scale of power people do.
I agree, but that does not contradict anything.
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No statement means no Multiplier, as I said before it's just an unquantifiable Speed Amp.
And that's currently why Kakashi has Pre-War and War Keys because he is currently scaled to different people
It contradicts a lot of things. Do you even know what happened in the Retrieval Arc?
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- #105
Yet this speed was able to keep up with the guy with 6 gates, it doesn't detract from anything. This SA at least has an up to 5x, this cannot be denied.
I have already explained countless times that he was in the same shape and that the raikiri makes him 7-A, and I have given excellent examples in the war when he accompanies Zabuza. Now there is mention that he is currently superior in combat in relation to the fourth ninja war, because years have passed and he trained. While from the arch of the kage dome, only one day went to war and there is no mention that he trained or improved his abilities in one day, and yet the example of Zabuza only reinforces this.
It does not contradict anything, not least because the user acquires it in one movement when using it, now when it is constant it remains the same, the difference in the stroke will depend on the physical speed applied, as well as any other means of increasing the speed
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https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-speed-revisions-and-scaling.72820/#423
https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-speed-revisions-and-scaling-ii.73091/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-speed-revisions-and-scaling-iii.75018/
https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-speed-revisions-and-scaling-iv.74068/
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- #107
Dude, what do you mean by these links? Nobody knows the absolute truth and everyone is capable of making mistakes.
Kakashi in the war is accompanied by Zabuza, who is not sub-rel, this is shown in the manga, you saw explanations by Kakashi, Guy and even Minato that the raikiri gives a high speed boost, besides that in a scene, when Guy with 6 gates is finished attacking Obito, Kakashi without raikiri had barely made it to the scene. It seems that there is only evaluation when Kakashi accompanies Guy with 6 gates, but ignores that he has a technique that gives a speed increase and at another time he without the technique cannot accompany him.
This needs a long CRT to evaluate these things, and I think the staff should do it, because when I show it, they ignore me along with the manga.
Kakashi in the war is accompanied by Zabuza, who is not sub-rel, this is shown in the manga, you saw explanations by Kakashi, Guy and even Minato that the raikiri gives a high speed boost, besides that in a scene, when Guy with 6 gates is finished attacking Obito, Kakashi without raikiri had barely made it to the scene. It seems that there is only evaluation when Kakashi accompanies Guy with 6 gates, but ignores that he has a technique that gives a speed increase and at another time he without the technique cannot accompany him.
This needs a long CRT to evaluate these things, and I think the staff should do it, because when I show it, they ignore me along with the manga.
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One thing you're right about. Everyone else is busy with other CRTs that don't focus on one character in order to upgrade another
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- #109
All the more reason to see the verse again and make sure to fix the loose ends and put the real tier of the characters being compared.
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Hopefully with other people doing the CRTs
Nullflowerblush
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That's it. Time to create a Discord and revise the entire verse.
Nullflowerblush
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well, time for somebody
i don't feel like doing it
i don't feel like doing it
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Yeah you’re several months too late with that idea
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In another thread the OP apparently agreed to wait for Shadow to work with Sakura and Shin. His purpose apparently is to upgrade her, so as he himself already agreed to wait, maybe would be better for him to request that all these threads created by him be closed, so that he could post his thoughts when Shadow creates the thread. I say this because there was no progress in any of the threads, including this one, almost no staff member commented here and apparently no member is in favor of the OP, so I believe it would be the best solution, or else this will never end.
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